i’m amazed at some of you wankers. i enjoy football for what it is. you out the ball at his feet and magic happens. he might not do it like a robot in every single champions league game you watch, but feck me, there’s a player in there.
Jude Bellingham | Real Madrid player
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Since it was brought here, just a couple of notes about Di Stefano and some cool vids (I love old vids):
He arrived to Europe when he was 27 and he wasn't called Saeta (arrow) for nothin, he was really fast, even in nowadays terms. Of course this more mature player Europe faced was less of a speedy forward from his early years and more of an orchestrator with lots of goals in him, still no slouch.
He was also a lot more skill and prone to keep the ball than it's said here and had a thing for nutmegs/backheells/flicks and such but pretty much like Pele and Messi almost always with a very vertical approach or to create an advantage in the moment, not just for the sake of it.
On contrair of what many think, he was also very dribble oriented (yet he didn't liked the Sivori style of mocking players or doing an extra play for the sake of it), no matter how much he liked to constantly combine.
This is a cool vid from him on a very typical match from those days where the game was more forgiven to try and fail plays, but at the same time the pitches were horrible, the fouls were harsh as fvck, etc..there are always two sides for every coin.
Still in this vid with him being fecking 32, you can see the stamina he had, the way he constantly could put a second march and dribble, he constantly ran the whole pitch offering himself as a plausible pass, the even at times excessive use of backheels or his constant will to mark and hustle evrywhere on the pitch. He really was build diff.
Another against France, again even at 32 he was still capable of be everywhere and fast with or without the ball at his feet
In any case any player should be judged in their period, allways, even if some of them like Alfredo, Johan, George, Edson, Eusebio etc even from really old periods belong to any era, they had that extra physical edge combine with extraordinary talent (on every sense, from their minds, to their feet).
PD: BTW Vids as old as the ones I've posted from those days suffer also from problems related to framerate, that's why sometimes some vids look Chaplinesque; from extremely slow, or kind of ackwardly accelerated
Sorry for the off topic
Back on Jude, he is a gem of a player and mostly has the right mindset, he'll just be 21 in a couple of months.
The sky is the ceiling for the lad even if he is another type of player of what Alfredo was, he is a more box to box fella, he is more of a mixed midfielder than a wild card Di Stefano ende being when he grwo older and left his younger fowrad years. The exccesive critics towards Jude here are quite extreme.
He arrived to Europe when he was 27 and he wasn't called Saeta (arrow) for nothin, he was really fast, even in nowadays terms. Of course this more mature player Europe faced was less of a speedy forward from his early years and more of an orchestrator with lots of goals in him, still no slouch.
He was also a lot more skill and prone to keep the ball than it's said here and had a thing for nutmegs/backheells/flicks and such but pretty much like Pele and Messi almost always with a very vertical approach or to create an advantage in the moment, not just for the sake of it.
On contrair of what many think, he was also very dribble oriented (yet he didn't liked the Sivori style of mocking players or doing an extra play for the sake of it), no matter how much he liked to constantly combine.
This is a cool vid from him on a very typical match from those days where the game was more forgiven to try and fail plays, but at the same time the pitches were horrible, the fouls were harsh as fvck, etc..there are always two sides for every coin.
Still in this vid with him being fecking 32, you can see the stamina he had, the way he constantly could put a second march and dribble, he constantly ran the whole pitch offering himself as a plausible pass, the even at times excessive use of backheels or his constant will to mark and hustle evrywhere on the pitch. He really was build diff.
Another against France, again even at 32 he was still capable of be everywhere and fast with or without the ball at his feet
In any case any player should be judged in their period, allways, even if some of them like Alfredo, Johan, George, Edson, Eusebio etc even from really old periods belong to any era, they had that extra physical edge combine with extraordinary talent (on every sense, from their minds, to their feet).
PD: BTW Vids as old as the ones I've posted from those days suffer also from problems related to framerate, that's why sometimes some vids look Chaplinesque; from extremely slow, or kind of ackwardly accelerated
Sorry for the off topic
Back on Jude, he is a gem of a player and mostly has the right mindset, he'll just be 21 in a couple of months.
The sky is the ceiling for the lad even if he is another type of player of what Alfredo was, he is a more box to box fella, he is more of a mixed midfielder than a wild card Di Stefano ende being when he grwo older and left his younger fowrad years. The exccesive critics towards Jude here are quite extreme.
I don't like Ballon de Ors because of these last years stupid excess of yellow press and social media. Yet Wirtz certainly deserves to be on the very Top of such consideration, he is such a fecking gem. Every huge club in the world should be all over him even if that sucks for you team man. Fantastic player already, let's hope he has a very long and extraordinary carreer.I know I'm a fan boy but Wirtz has been every bit as good as the Balon D'Or candidates discussed in this thread and could still win a treble, albeit the "small" one, has set up a new record of consecutively unbeaten matches and could finish with an unprecedented unbeaten season across three competitions. If the UCL is won by a German team that came in second (or even fifth) domestically and Germany maybe even has a decent EC, I really hope he gets the recognition he deserves in the vote.
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There are stats and than there is the eye test. My eyes tell Musiala is the better footballer and a higher ceiling; the better league claim does not hold water because Musiala plays well in the ucl too. Bellingham always looks underwhelming when I watch him. I do not support Bayern or Real.
I expect a hyped midfielder like Bellingham to have similar qualities to other great Real Madrid midfielders but he really falls short in multiple areas. Where he does excell is goalscoring especially earlier in the season ala Frank Lampard.
What Musiala did you check out? He doesn’t take penalties.
And you actually made me google it. Over the course of his career he has scored 1 (one) penalty. And it was in the B-Juniors Bundesliga South/Southwest.
The eye test tells me Musiala is in the same mould as Sancho, Dele Alli and co, that is highly talented players but happy to look cute on the pitch, and lacking the winning attitude.
Bellingham on the other hand has looked like an absolute fighter and looks like he actually wants to win rather than play fancy cute football (in addition to being a great and talented footballer)
To me Musiala is a silky player but that won’t be enough if he wants to live up to his potential. In the same league, I feel that Xavi Simmons might have the greater impact within a team
Musiala decided last years BL in the last minute. I'm not sure Bellingham has yet scored a goal under as much pressure and as crucial in winning a title as that
Nonetheless Bellingham definitely is the more versatile player and can contribute more to a match than Musiala. But I don't think you can put that on mentality, Bellingham just has different physical attributes which allow him to excel in midfield battles where Musiala would look lost.
That’s why I spoke about Xavi Simmons who’s even smaller and skinnier than Musiala yet doesn’t shy away from contacts.Musiala decided last years BL in the last minute. I'm not sure Bellingham has yet scored a goal under as much pressure and as crucial in winning a title as that
Nonetheless Bellingham definitely is the more versatile player and can contribute more to a match than Musiala. But I don't think you can put that on mentality, Bellingham just has different physical attributes which allow him to excel in midfield battles where Musiala would look lost.
I mean it’s a very subjective opinion but Musiala looks very soft to me, like a luxury player.
As things stand it’s hard to say adamantly that one is better than the other however
Bellingham has scored a lot of last minute winning goals that has led to Real winning the league comfortablyMusiala decided last years BL in the last minute. I'm not sure Bellingham has yet scored a goal under as much pressure and as crucial in winning a title as that
Nonetheless Bellingham definitely is the more versatile player and can contribute more to a match than Musiala. But I don't think you can put that on mentality, Bellingham just has different physical attributes which allow him to excel in midfield battles where Musiala would look lost.
Sure, but I can't think of a single goal/effectively a final winner Bellingham scored. Which isn't a dig at Bellingham, just wanted to give an example that Musiala can be a clutch player as well. I don't doubt that Bellingham has that in him as well, as he has proven that in a lot of matches already.
Probably because you're German so watch substantially more Bundesliga than La Liga, I'd imagine.
So which title did Bellingham decide in the closing minutes of the final match of the competition? By definition in Spain so far it's zero, because the final matches aren't played yet in his first season there (except the Copa del Rey which Real didn't win)
You're welcome
It's always nice to stumble upon my videos randomly.Agree with your assessment though. While Bellingham is an underrated dribbler (not very easy on the eye but quite effective), he's way below Di Stéfano in that (and most creative) aspects. Which isn't a shame at all — the lad is only 20 and Di Stéfano is literally one of the greatest footballers to ever play the game.
His movement off the ball, especially in the attacking phase, is outstanding though, especially for a midfielder. And even without the goals he's always a menace — I don't get the over-the-top criticism he's been getting lately, he's so useful for Madrid and seems to be able to switch between different roles with relative ease. I can't think of a better manager for him than Ancelotti though, it would be interesting to see how he develops under a different manager (Alonso, most likely) — in a more narrowly defined role that will, in all likelihood, won't make the most out of his incredibly varied skillset.
This thread is proof that the definition of a big game changes depending on who the subject of criticism is
"We do not train to be merciful here. Mercy is for the weak. Here, in the streets, in competition: A man confronts you, he is the enemy. An enemy deserves no mercy."
actually you are right, I misread the () next to the goals as penalties when it was something else.
I’m on my phone right now but I will show you the comparator site when I’m at home as you need to tweak a few settings
I’m sure you don’t mean to say his last minute winner against Barcelona both home and away, and his screamer of an equaliser when real were doing awful at camp nou don’t fall under this?
“Musiala scored the last goal of the last match of the season when Bayern won the title because dortmund bottled it as Bellingham was injured means that he is better than Bellingham because real won the league with 4 games to spare” is a bit of an insane point to make
Yeah because it's not the point I made. I wanted to give an example for Musiala showing the right winning attitude that Bellingham undoubtedly proved a lot of times as well. I even said Bellingham offers more different skills than Musiala and is more versatileI’m sure you don’t mean to say his last minute winner against Barcelona both home and away, and his screamer of an equaliser when real were doing awful at camp nou don’t fall under this?
“Musiala scored the last goal of the last match of the season when Bayern won the title because dortmund bottled it as Bellingham was injured means that he is better than Bellingham because real won the league with 4 games to spare” is a bit of an insane point to make
Looking forward to Utd signing them both
No need to. Thanks though.
Think Musiala is the more talented player with the higher ceiling but Bellingham us more mature than him at this point in time. Musiala can be quite erratic and make many wrong decisions, dribbling down blind alleys etc. Bellingham as well last season but he.imptoved that very much for Madrid.
That account it's yours? great vids man.You're welcome
Agree with your assessment though. While Bellingham is an underrated dribbler (not very easy on the eye but quite effective), he's way below Di Stéfano in that (and most creative) aspects. Which isn't a shame at all — the lad is only 20 and Di Stéfano is literally one of the greatest footballers to ever play the game.
His movement off the ball, especially in the attacking phase, is outstanding though, especially for a midfielder. And even without the goals he's always a menace — I don't get the over-the-top criticism he's been getting lately, he's so useful for Madrid and seems to be able to switch between different roles with relative ease. I can't think of a better manager for him than Ancelotti though, it would be interesting to see how he develops under a different manager (Alonso, most likely) — in a more narrowly defined role that will, in all likelihood, won't make the most out of his incredibly varied skillset.
Yes I do think that Jude is mostly nowadays a box to box player and his mentality it's in the right place being so young.
I also think that due to his characteristics, his coaches and him can try to mirror Redondo. Even if he doesn't have that level of dribbling ability, he certainly it's very good like you've said, showing a great stride while he can improve his "holding/managing the ball/dictate tempo" game.
Of course he should continue with his box to box style and offensive output, that Redondo sadly kept excessively on check (Madrid in those days needed him too much as a metronome/defensive anchor in the mid), but I think that it's worth a try for him to add a bigger participation regarding being the anchor, the metronome, even if this somehow can reduce his box to box appereances. His size, his stride, his technical ability can really help him to mirror to a certain extent what Redondo did on his days, while preserving that natural box to box ability he already has and gives him an edge.
In other words going back to those Di Stefano's comparisons I think it suits him more to become some sort of a goalscoring Fernando mid, than fans/press/social media talking about him becoming an ex young forward with a level of talent and array of atributes that almost always ends in a wild card that plays the role of just being "himself", wherever he wants on the pitch like Alfredo did and usually happens with this off the charts players on every period.
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His mentality is unbelievable for his age. It will set him apart.
This is an awful take, to be honest. Musiala is a brilliant player. Whether he is better or not than Bellingham is open to question, and the comparison is complicated by the fact that they are very different types of player. We will have to see their careers develop a bit first. But Musiala should definitely not be put in the same bracket as someone like Dele Ali, that's ridiculous.
Ive never questioned Musiala’s talent.
I’ve simply stated that he subjectively looked like a silky player lacking the killer instinct.
Isco is a wonderful player but look where he’s at today.
Agree. He's immensely talented and has incredible technique but what sets Bellingham apart is his mentality. No way Musiala comes to Real Madrid and becomes it's top scorer and assister in his first season at the age of 20
Another odd comparison. What do you mean by 'killer instinct' anyway? How exactly.is it defined?
What is Bellingham great at? Dribbling? No. Passing? No. playmaking? No. Scoring? Perhaps, atleast for a midfielder. Running games? No. The hype he gets because he is English and plays for Real Madrid. Period.
Musiala has a higher ceiling than all those players you mentioned.
Playing and consistently starting for Bayern and the German national team also requires great mentality.
I’ll have what you’re drinking.
Are you Musiala himself?
You can’t objectively say that Bellingham is good at nothing.
Anyone could just easily say Musiala is overhyped because he plays in Bundesliga like lots of players that proved to be shite afterwards. And yet nobody said that. I even clearly mentioned that it was my subjective opinion of Musiala
Hey now, we don't know that, we should not rule it out. We should give him the chance to try that at 21
Musiala has been Qatar 2022's undisputed Dribble King. He's attempted 36 dribbles – 11 more than any other player – and successfully pulled off 19 of them, more than twice as many as all but two players in the tournament so far.
This is a bit of a ridiculous opinion when the same Bellingham that you’re trying to argue for came from that same Bundesliga where he had a tougher time standing out than in the Spanish league he joined.
When a player from the German league came to England and shattered all goal scoring records in his first season (Haaland), when the best player in England over the last decade came from Germany (KdB), like so many others from there that have flourished. Only United seems to get players that then underperform, but at this point that seems more a United thing than a Bundesliga thing.
Clearly both Musiala and Jude are among the most exciting talents in the world right now. Arguing Musiala is not because he plays in Germany is so dumb on so many levels.
Wasn't he the Bundesliga player of the year last season?
Not that I disagree with the overall point
He was, but there was no real stand out performer last season.
You could see Bellingham's talent but he was frustrating to watch. It is great that he is putting it together this season. Some of his goals early on in the season were nothing special, but more a case of him being in the right place at the right time. Which is obviously a very valuable skill itself.
He was more of a passenger against Bayern and I hope that repeats itself tomorrow. Undoubtely a great player though.
You actually want to judge a player on how they do in the closing minutes of a final game of a competition?
What an inane measurement.
You'd be forgiven for thinking we're talking about David Platt here.
It's an indication of a players "killer instinct" which the post I replied to claimed was lacking in Musiala, but existed in Bellingham. Bellingham definitely has that and proved to be crucial (especially in the first half of this season) for Real in winning this years La Liga. I just wanted to point out that Musiala also decided a league title under even more dramatic circumstances (and after having a great season as well) last year. Just because he looks more silky and is less physical than Bellingham doesn't mean that he lacks the killer instinct.
I was talking about him not being "great" at those things which doesn't imply he is poor at them.
The thing is that given all the hype typically from the English press and the Real Madrid PR machine, I expected alot more from him and to be honest, he has not lived up to those expectations whenever ive watched him, not even close.
It feels like there is a referendum on every popular player after every single game where we must decide collectively if he is world class or a bit rubbish.