Kai Havertz | Chelsea player

Pow

Full Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2015
Messages
1,719
Location
Somewhere
Supports
Chelsea
Muller would walk into any side in the Premier League.

The majority of our fan base don't want Gareth Bale but if he comes in and scores 20 odd for Spurs this year they'll change their tune.
Only one guy underrated him here ;-)
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/christian-falk-united-interested-in-signing-muller-in-jan.451410/

Nope this is a year ago and hes getting slated by the forum. The answer was a huge no.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
1,825
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
I’ve watched quite a bit of Havertz mate and he is absolutely not rapid. We must be watching two totally different players.
I mean, the data are the data. Like I said, his acceleration is nothing to write home about but on the break and once up to speed he's absolutely rapid.
 

Piratesoup

Full Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
6,021
Supports
Bayern München
I mean, the data are the data. Like I said, his acceleration is nothing to write home about but on the break and once up to speed he's absolutely rapid.
Well, the same goes for pretty much any tall player. That's why a lot of the top speed stats feature defenders that most people wouldn't label as fast. Niklas Süle puts many agile strikers and wingers to shame, but he needs way longer to reach his top speed. Messi is on the other side of the specturm. He accerlates to his top speed with just a couple of steps, which makes all others around him look liek they are frozen, but he can't beat most defenders in a long(er) distance sprint. It's something that's often overlooked.
 

Clermontois

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
282
Supports
France
Kai Havertz BMI: 23.0
Mason Greenwood BMI: 21.4
Marcus Rashford BMI: 21.6
Ahh okay the BMI the best flawed metric ever invented. One that if followed would indicate some folks are obese when they are just muscular. Having seen both Greenwood and Rashford they are both more muscular than Havertz and easily stronger from what we have seen. Havertz once again is one of the most frail players I have seen set up in this league.

I mean, the data are the data. Like I said, his acceleration is nothing to write home about but on the break and once up to speed he's absolutely rapid.
No it isn't.

Pretty sure some of the same data never clocked Gnabry or Coman as being the fastest in that league when they clearly are. Havertz or Haaland who was mentioned above are nowhere close in acceleration or top speed to those two.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

Full Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2016
Messages
1,825
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Supports
Chelsea
Ahh okay the BMI the best flawed metric ever invented. One that if followed would indicate some folks are obese when they are just muscular. Having seen both Greenwood and Rashford they are both more muscular than Havertz and easily stronger from what we have seen. Havertz once again is one of the most frail players I have seen set up in this league.

No it isn't.

Pretty sure some of the same data never clocked Gnabry or Coman as being the fastest in that league when they clearly are. Havertz or Haaland who was mentioned above are nowhere close in acceleration or top speed to those two.
BMI is a perfectly good metric given that we are comparing professional footballers to professional footballers. Arguing that it should be thrown out because of fringe cases involving bodybuilders is hilarious. I suppose actual numbers are less convincing than your argument of "I've seen them from the stands and here's what I think!"

Coman was clocked:
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/bundesliga/news/fastest-players-ever-kingsley-coman-ehizibue-7503

Gnabry isn't as fast at top speed; he's certainly got a very fast first step. These numbers are tracked via GPS and by computer software. You can protest all you like but you're basically arguing that 2+2=5.
 

Zehner

Full Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2018
Messages
2,786
Location
Germany
Supports
Bayer 04 Leverkusen
Ahh okay the BMI the best flawed metric ever invented. One that if followed would indicate some folks are obese when they are just muscular. Having seen both Greenwood and Rashford they are both more muscular than Havertz and easily stronger from what we have seen. Havertz once again is one of the most frail players I have seen set up in this league.


No it isn't.

Pretty sure some of the same data never clocked Gnabry or Coman as being the fastest in that league when they clearly are. Havertz or Haaland who was mentioned above are nowhere close in acceleration or top speed to those two.
I think you are being deceived there. Coman is probably the fastest regarding acceleration but that doesn't mean that he's the fastest regarding top speed. I've once read an interview with Sidney Sam in which he mentioned that the only player in the team that was on par with him in 100m sprints was Jerome Boateng. Gündogan was also reported to be one of the fastest players in Klopp's Borussia Dortmund side.

So I don't think that those top speed stats are false. Technology is far too accurate for that nowadays. But it's not worth much without context.

What's also to consider: A player like Coman may in fact be faster than all of those in a sprinting duel but he rarely makes runs long enough to actually reach top speed. Think most often the players clocking those records are the ones who make really long runs, at times even CBs or DMs when tracking back.
 

TheLord

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
699
I think acceleration is a better metric than top-speed for attacking players. Of course, if a player excels in both, he becomes a Kylian Mbappe.

The top-speeds of Havertz (now) and Hazard (2016/17) are similar - 35 km/h, which isn't much because both Rashford and Greenwood have faster top-speeds (36 and 37 km/h). But prime Hazard had that sudden burst of speed from an absolute standstill position (acceleration), which enabled him to skip past every defender in the league, much better than Rashford ever has ever done. That is what Messi excels in. He is not the quickest on the field but has better acceleration than most players. It more than compensates for the lack of top-speed. Havertz strikes me as a player who isn't the quickest over a long distance but has that enormous burst of pace in tight spaces, which is absolutely crucial - this isn't a 100-metre sprint, but a game of football.
 
Last edited:

SATA

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
11,899
Location
We all love United
The German posters here have a very unique way of talking about football and the players that play in their domestic league
 

roonster09

Hercule Poirot of the scouting world
Scout
Joined
May 10, 2009
Messages
25,271
I think acceleration is a better metric than top-speed for attacking players. Of course, if a player excels in both, he becomes a Kylian Mbappe.

The top-speeds of Havertz (now) and Hazard (2016/17) are similar - 35 km/h, which isn't much because both Rashford and Greenwood have faster top-speeds (36 and 37 km/h). But prime Hazard had that sudden burst of speed from an absolute standstill position (acceleration), which enabled him to skip past every defender in the league, much better than Rashford ever has ever done. That is what Messi excels in. He is not the quickest on the field but has better acceleration than most players. It more than compensates for the lack of top-speed. Havertz strikes me as a player who isn't the quickest over a long distance but has that enormous burst of pace in tight spaces, which is absolutely crucial - this isn't a 100-metre sprint, but a game of football.
Yeah, players rarely get to run 100 mts on the pitch. It's always the acceleration that matters, the first couple of steps especially which gives enough space and time for attackers.
 

blue blue

Full Member
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
1,035
Supports
chelsea
Havertz doesn't strike me a player with quick acceleration. From what I can see it is his intelligence and quickness of thought that gives him an edge.
Werner on the other hand.
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
26,756
I think acceleration is a better metric than top-speed for attacking players. Of course, if a player excels in both, he becomes a Kylian Mbappe.

The top-speeds of Havertz (now) and Hazard (2016/17) are similar - 35 km/h, which isn't much because both Rashford and Greenwood have faster top-speeds (36 and 37 km/h). But prime Hazard had that sudden burst of speed from an absolute standstill position (acceleration), which enabled him to skip past every defender in the league, much better than Rashford ever has ever done. That is what Messi excels in. He is not the quickest on the field but has better acceleration than most players. It more than compensates for the lack of top-speed. Havertz strikes me as a player who isn't the quickest over a long distance but has that enormous burst of pace in tight spaces, which is absolutely crucial - this isn't a 100-metre sprint, but a game of football.
Not sure about that, Rashford is rapid from a standstill also. He's just not as agile so can't go weaving between 2/3 players - but on the outside or a straight line he's just as fast.
 

IAmAWinner

Full Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
1,209
Thanks to this fecker, I am already miles behind my mates on Fantasy football.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
38,252
Location
Chelsea fan.
The first real test for him will be against Barnsley on Weds.
 

Bubz27

No I won’t change your tag line
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
17,019
I mean the guy walked in from a 5 week holiday 10 days ago.
Needs to show better commitment doesn't he. He knew the move was happening, he should've been working, doing his homework on Chelsea, keeping sharp and fit.
 

SATA

Full Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
11,899
Location
We all love United
Was he really good in the Bundesliga? German watchers? Looks really like lightweight for the PL but he can always put on the mass
 

Cassidy

No longer at risk of being mistaken for a Scouser
Joined
Oct 2, 2013
Messages
21,106
Was he really good in the Bundesliga? German watchers? Looks really like lightweight for the PL but he can always put on the mass
I think give him a few weeks before judging
 

lilcurt

Full Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
2,154
Location
Birmingham
Was he really good in the Bundesliga? German watchers? Looks really like lightweight for the PL but he can always put on the mass
But, but the Sancho thread told me that if they play in Germany they will 100% to it in the prem...

All jokes aside it is too early to tell.
 

Champ

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
1,792
I mean the guy walked in from a 5 week holiday 10 days ago.
He was with the German national team for the Spain game two weeks ago was he not?
Hardly a holiday training with your national team!!
 

cyberman

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
19,531
Really needs to put in a few pounds of muscle. He seems a but frail out there
 

Inigo Montoya

Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
28,505
I think acceleration is a better metric than top-speed for attacking players. Of course, if a player excels in both, he becomes a Kylian Mbappe.

The top-speeds of Havertz (now) and Hazard (2016/17) are similar - 35 km/h, which isn't much because both Rashford and Greenwood have faster top-speeds (36 and 37 km/h). But prime Hazard had that sudden burst of speed from an absolute standstill position (acceleration), which enabled him to skip past every defender in the league, much better than Rashford ever has ever done. That is what Messi excels in. He is not the quickest on the field but has better acceleration than most players. It more than compensates for the lack of top-speed. Havertz strikes me as a player who isn't the quickest over a long distance but has that enormous burst of pace in tight spaces, which is absolutely crucial - this isn't a 100-metre sprint, but a game of football.
feck me, thought I was reading Top Gear for a second!

He was way off the pace today but Chelsea were outplayed. Going to take time to find their best formation and stick to it. Frank will need to find some balls to keep players on the bench for these type of games
 

TheLord

Full Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
699
If he can't perform against West Brom next week either, the doubts will start gathering pace, even though it is too early to be very critical of his Chelsea performances.
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
38,252
Location
Chelsea fan.
I was surprised to see him hooked though. I've not seen much of Mount be christ he looks so average.
In that situation (down to 10 men against Liverpool) then Mount staying on was a no-brainer.

Mount went from being massively over-hyped by some to vastly underrated by others. He's a good player.
 

WeePat

Full Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2015
Messages
1,213
Supports
Chelsea
He was with the German national team for the Spain game two weeks ago was he not?
Hardly a holiday training with your national team!!
He spent a couple of days with the national team, sat on the bench for one game and then allowed to miss the rest of the international period to complete his move. He's hardly kicked a ball in anger since Leverkusen lost to Inter.