Kashmir

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
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A lot of stuff seems to be happening that's going under the radar.

Kashmir: Why are young people protesting?
Al Jazeera visits Srinagar to find out why Indian-administered Kashmir is witnessing its worst violence in years.

Indian-administered Kashmir is witnessing some of its most violent protests.

Over 30 people have been killed and hundreds more injured in clashes with security forces in the last week following the killing of popular rebel leader Burhan Wani, 22.

After Wani's death, young people, who constitute the largest chunk of Kashmir's population, have taken to throwing stones in protest on the streets and using social media to tell their stories.

Demonstrations continue despite heavy a security presence and a shutdown of mobile Internet and phone services.

Al Jazeera went to the streets of Srinagar, the capital of Indian-administered Kashmir, to meet some of those involved.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/kashmir-young-people-protesting-160716201453750.html
 
Really sick of this.

Referendums are the rage these days. Give them one and let them live with their choice.
 
It's not really under the radar, it's pretty blatant after the killing of Burhan Wani. There is a real sense of injustice and agitation for change among the masses, and tbh who could blame them?
prateik said:
"Indian-administered Kashmir" :lol:
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?
 
Rebel leader? He was a fecking terrorist. Stop with his glorifying terrorism nonsense.
 
Witchking said:
Sorry, re read it just now. My apologies @2cents
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:wenger: no bother, not a conflict I know much about, but doesn't seem to hit the international news the way it should, probably due to all the recent stuff going on.
 
I really wish India never annexed Kashmir in the first place, it's a waste of the nation's resources at this moment trying to keep the situation there from boiling over every year. As it stands, the Indian union is extremely important for a peaceful subcontinent and letting go of Kashmir will give wings to other minor separatist movements across the country, not to mention the political suicide it will be for whichever ruling party makes that decision. You're stuck with us Kashmir, better make your peace with it.
 
Bestie07 said:
I really wish India never annexed Kashmir in the first place, it's a waste of the nation's resources at this moment trying to keep the situation there from boiling over every year. As it stands, the Indian union is extremely important for a peaceful subcontinent and letting go of Kashmir will give wings to other minor separatist movements across the country, not to mention the political suicide it will be for whichever ruling party makes that decision. You're stuck with us Kashmir, better make your peace with it.
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We should give Kashmir the choice. There's literally no other way of resolving this.

Otherwise it's just a never ending cycle on violence and death which helps no one. Pakistan's main bone contention is that they think Kashmiris want to be with Pakistan. Well, let's find out. Get the UN in, conduct a thorough and fair poll with no interference from either us or Pakistan or even China (Can never forget those cnuts) and let the people decide. Probably not make much of a difference immediately but you have to start somewhere.
 
Akash said:
We should give Kashmir the choice. There's literally no other way of resolving this.

Otherwise it's just a never ending cycle on violence and death which helps no one. Pakistan's main bone contention is that they think Kashmiris want to be with Pakistan. Well, let's find out. Get the UN in, conduct a thorough and fair poll with no interference from either us or Pakistan or even China (Can never forget those cnuts) and let the people decide. Probably not make much of a difference immediately but you have to start somewhere.
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You guys will slaughter the prime minister who proposes that.
 
Akash said:
We should give Kashmir the choice. There's literally no other way of resolving this.

Otherwise it's just a never ending cycle on violence and death which helps no one. Pakistan's main bone contention is that they think Kashmiris want to be with Pakistan. Well, let's find out. Get the UN in, conduct a thorough and fair poll with no interference from either us or Pakistan or even China (Can never forget those cnuts) and let the people decide. Probably not make much of a difference immediately but you have to start somewhere.
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I mentioned in my post why this is not possible, India will never agree to a referendum in Kashmir. If there is going to be an end to this situation, it's not going to be peaceful.
 
The problem is that the Pak media and government keep harping about the plebiscite. It clearly says that Pakistan has to get it's army, mujahideens and terrorists who have entered in to Kashmir to cause terrorism out of Kashmir. Will Pakistan ever agree? If not, this plebiscite thing will never work.

People who say that Kashmir should be given a referendum, how about first getting the KP's back where they belong so that the voting is equal and fair? Will the part of Kashmir with Pakistan also be allowed to vote? What about the people who have illegally entered the territory? How will you determine who is allowed to vote and who isn't? It's not like all kashmiris roam around with Aadhar cards for a fair vote process to happen.
 
I stopped at Al-Jazeera and 'Indian-Administered Kashmir' bit in the headline in OP.
 
MJJ said:
You guys will slaughter the prime minister who proposes that.
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Unfortunately, you're probably right.

Bestie07 said:
I mentioned in my post why this is not possible, India will never agree to a referendum in Kashmir. If there is going to be an end to this situation, it's not going to be peaceful.
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A referendum is clearly the only way forward short of full scale obliteration of Pakistan. Will it happen? Probably not but it should. There seems to be a big disconnect there. A terrorists death should not be greeted in the manner it has been.
 
Akash said:
Otherwise it's just a never ending cycle on violence and death which helps no one. Pakistan's main bone contention is that they think Kashmiris want to be with Pakistan. Well, let's find out. Get the UN in, conduct a thorough and fair poll with no interference from either us or Pakistan or even China (Can never forget those cnuts) and let the people decide. Probably not make much of a difference immediately but you have to start somewhere.
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Should have been done decades ago before the infiltration started. Very difficult to manage now - can even UN guarantee peace and security in Kashmir while campaigning/voting occurs?
 
What about the Kashmiri Pandits who are the Hindus of Kashmir who were forced to flee Kashmir because of the ethnic cleansing and violence against them? When the violence began in the late 80s/early 90s, radical groups would announce on loudspeakers all over Kashmir that the Pandits had to leave Kashmir in a week's time or else they would be killed. So many of them were killed and hundreds of thousands are now displaced and living all over India as refugees in their own country.
 
Witchking said:
The problem is that the Pak media and government keep harping about the plebiscite. It clearly says that Pakistan has to get it's army, mujahideens and terrorists who have entered in to Kashmir to cause terrorism out of Kashmir. Will Pakistan ever agree? If not, this plebiscite thing will never work.

People who say that Kashmir should be given a referendum, how about first getting the KP's back where they belong so that the voting is equal and fair? Will the part of Kashmir with Pakistan also be allowed to vote? What about the people who have illegally entered the territory? How will you determine who is allowed to vote and who isn't? It's not like all kashmiris roam around with Aadhar cards for a fair vote process to happen.
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Pakistan have gone on record saying they think Kashmiris want to be with Pakistan or independent. Logically, they should be all for it.

It won't be walk in the park sure and there's complications around it but get the UN in and have them sort out the issues. I see little to no point in continuing the same way for another 50 years.
 
Akshay said:
Should have been done decades ago before the infiltration started. Very difficult to manage now - can even UN guarantee peace and security in Kashmir while campaigning/voting occurs?
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Absolutely. As for the UN, I doubt they'd be able to guarantee peace. The hope is that their presence and the possibility of a referendum and a chance at resolving the madness keeps everyone on their best behaviors. Even Pakistan. After all, we'd be giving the people what they want and Pakistan are convinced they want to join them.
 
Taking the issue to UN was one of the many blunders of Nehru. I don't think there is need to be stupid again and take the issue to UN.
 
MJJ said:
Is anyone else not in favour of granting them independence and both sides moving on?
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That will never happen. As it is, a huge portion of the state of Jammu and Kashmir is occupied by China and another large portion by Pakistan. So there are three countries occupying one state. You cannot have an independent country in that situation. China and Pakistan will move in mutually and that will be a huge security risk for India. China have already built highways and army bases in the region that they occupy.

Furthermore, the state has three distinct regions - Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh. People in Jammu and Ladakh want to be a part of India. They don't want independence.
 
Akash said:
That would probably be the worst outcome of the referendum.
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Nikhil said:
That will never happen. As it is, a huge portion of the state of Jammu and Kashmir is occupied by China and another large portion by Pakistan. So there are three countries occupying one state. You cannot have an independent country in that situation. China and Pakistan will move in mutually and that will be a huge security risk for India. China have already built highways and army bases in the region that they occupy.

Furthermore, the state has three distinct regions - Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh. People in Jammu and Ladakh want to be a part of India. They don't want independence.
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Think its the best non-violent solution as neither country is going to give up their claim without bloodshed and I meant independence for all three parts of kashmir, not just Indian Administered Kashmir (@The Man Himself ;p)

Wont be too sure of that either.
 
MJJ said:
Think its the best non-violent solution as neither country is going to give up their claim without bloodshed and I meant independence for all three parts of kashmir, not just Indian Administered Kashmir (@The Man Himself ;p)

Wont be too sure of that either.
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If the countries don't want to respect the referendum then it doesn't really matter what the outcome is.
 
JustAFan said:
One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.
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Kashmir is a part of India, you can keep saying or thinking otherwise, doesn't matter. Anyone who tries to create problems there is going to get it and isn't going to end well for them. The separatist idiots, mujahids will in the end keep getting picked off by the army. One day hopefully soon, guys like Hafeez Saeed are brought to book. Then maybe this nonsense might end.

Absolutely ridiculous to call a tosser like him a freedom fighter if he cannot come and fight with the army face to face and keep posting stupid videos daring the army. Got what he deserved. The rest of the kashmiris who have been brainwashed to blindly create ruckus there need to stop and get on with their lives.
 
rotherham_red said:
As far as I'm aware, he only ever targeted army positions rather than civilians. Not sure how that's terrorism?
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Why would he target the Indian Army Positions? and since he did that, he was fair game for the army. Who gave him the right about deciding the fate of KP's? KP's are also locals of Kashmir, his group had caused issues for them. Amounts to terrorism. Plus anyone who is in the same views as Hafeez Saaed is a terrorist imo.
 
MJJ said:
Think its the best non-violent solution as neither country is going to give up their claim without bloodshed and I meant independence for all three parts of kashmir, not just Indian Administered Kashmir (@The Man Himself ;p)
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Very unlikely China gives up their controlled areas, they have no reason to. Also, I cannot see a safe, secure, independent Kashmir in the middle of three powerful states with mutual tensions and border disputes (it's not like Kashmir is the sole source of conflict). Most likely it would become a terrorist haven.
 
MJJ said:
Think its the best non-violent solution as neither country is going to give up their claim without bloodshed and I meant independence for all three parts of kashmir, not just Indian Administered Kashmir (@The Man Himself ;p)

Wont be too sure of that either.
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Theoretically yes, but in Pakistan, there is also the issue of Gilgit-Baltistan that Kashmir politicians say is part of Kashmir, while GB's people disagree. So, what will be the solution for this region? Secondly, with China Pak Economic Corridor (CPEC) 's route going through this area, not sure Pakistan will agree to giving independence to the whole region.

For the foreseeable future, the status quo will continue IMO.
 
Akshay said:
Very unlikely China gives up their controlled areas, they have no reason to. Also, I cannot see a safe, secure, independent Kashmir in the middle of three powerful states with mutual tensions and border disputes (it's not like Kashmir is the sole source of conflict). Most likely it would become a terrorist haven.
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True. An independent Kashmir will be terrorist haven.
Also from India point of view the Kashmir region is important strategically from security perspective as well. The geography of region and Himalayas in particular help from defense perspective. It may sound far fetched but we need to be prepared for worst and the way world politics is going right now, we can't rule out a world war III in near future. If Kashmir becomes independent, Pak and China will virtually have a free run into main territory of country from North (Pak and China are not going to be on same side as India in this worst case scenario I am assuming and I don't expect any 'resistance' from this independent Kashmir with current demography towards infiltrators). Forget world war III, even otherwise, independent Kashmir gives free run for infiltration of terrorists and a weakened strategic and defense position in case of war.

The Himalayas have protected the country for ages from invaders and though China war of 1962 weakened it somewhat and we need Himalayas for future too :)
 
If India lets Kashmir go as some kind of giveaway, the next thing would be the demand of Khalistan by separatists in Punjab, demands of Bodoland in North East, Nagaland & Tripura would want the same treatment too. It's would start a vicious cycle resulting in the revival of a lot of separatists groups.

Anyone who thinks giving Kashmir away, via some kind of referendum would be a good solution, is not looking at the bigger picture.
 
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The Man Himself said:
Taking the issue to UN was one of the many blunders of Nehru. I don't think there is need to be stupid again and take the issue to UN.
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The mistake was keeping the line of control as it is after the Indo-Pak war, when India held all the cards. Should have forced Pakistan diplomatically in accepting the LOC as a recognized international border.
 
Nikhil said:
What about the Kashmiri Pandits who are the Hindus of Kashmir who were forced to flee Kashmir because of the ethnic cleansing and violence against them? When the violence began in the late 80s/early 90s, radical groups would announce on loudspeakers all over Kashmir that the Pandits had to leave Kashmir in a week's time or else they would be killed. So many of them were killed and hundreds of thousands are now displaced and living all over India as refugees in their own country.
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An important question, which all our governments have utterly failed to do anything about.

We're yet to see leaders on either side who has the bollocks to make an actual stand. And to make it work, you need leaders on both side. So this is going to rumble on
 
When I hear about terrorists I always wonder if Luke Skywalker and the rebels are the same.
America is very similar to the Empire.
 
Meanwhile, proof of global involvement in current Kashmir violence:

iojl2b.jpg
 
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