Kashmir

[marukomu]

What?!

They don't do it for no reason. Who is right?

 

[Stanzin Lama]

I mentioned in my post why this is not possible, India will never agree to a referendum in Kashmir. If there is going to be an end to this situation, it's not going to be peaceful.

Don't you think repealing of AFSPA can possibly introduce a better negotiating environment? Many Kashmiris I have talked to regard the occupation as the most important factor contributing to their protests. If the Army's involvement can somehow be downgraded (I have no idea how) then probably long term, things can change?

 

[Akshay]

They don't do it for no reason. Who is right?

Honestly, I can't see what reason could justify blowing up and killing civilians, including children, to make a political statement. Also, how is this related to what is happening in Kashmir?

 

[Stanzin Lama]

Honestly, I can't see what reason could justify blowing up and killing civilians, including children, to make a political statement. Also, how is this related to what is happening in Kashmir?

Do Kashmiri terrorists do that? I thought they picked fight with the military and not with the civilians, at least in Kashmir of course.

 

[Nighteyes]

Don't you think repealing of AFSPA can possibly introduce a better negotiating environment? Many Kashmiris I have talked to regard the occupation as the most important factor contributing to their protests. If the Army's involvement can somehow be downgraded (I have no idea how) then probably long term, things can change?

Army involvement cannot be downgraded while Pakistan keep up with their antics. It's a catch 22 situation. Army involvement can only be downgraded once a semi-permanent solution is found.

 

[Akshay]

Do Kashmiri terrorists do that? I thought they picked fight with the military and not with the civilians, at least in Kashmir of course.

Yeah but I don't know if he was talking about Kashmir since he was talking about the US. I don't consider people who attack only military targets/personnel to be terrorists.

 

[Stanzin Lama]

Army involvement cannot be downgraded while Pakistan keep up with their antics. It's a catch 22 situation. Army involvement can only be downgraded once a semi-permanent solution is found.

I don't know man. You can call me an idealist, but I think the onus lies on State to guarantee its citizens at least dignified living environment. As I said, I don't know how it can happen, but like things have been worsening over a period of time, they can perhaps, improve too over a period of time. What we need is a change in orientation of strategies being implemented and it has to start with the Army and the AFSPA.

 

[Bestie07]

Don't you think repealing of AFSPA can possibly introduce a better negotiating environment? Many Kashmiris I have talked to regard the occupation as the most important factor contributing to their protests. If the Army's involvement can somehow be downgraded (I have no idea how) then probably long term, things can change?

Ideally it should, but the Army presence can not be reduced as that gives a free reign to Pakistan to instigate further disturbance.

Plebiscite is not going to happen, it's a (political) suicide for whichever Indian leader proposes it. India will not give up Kashmir without a full blown war and since there is no way that Pakistan will be able to ever defeat India in a war, Kashmir's hopes of independence will remain a distant dream. Kashmiris need to realize this as they are stuck with us and should try to stop providing soft support to the terrorists(or separatist rebels if you'd prefer to call them that) if peace is to return to the valley.

 

[VidaRed]

This is a proxy war between India and pakistan. Anyone who raises an isis flag is a terrorist.

 

[Stanzin Lama]

Ideally it should, but the Army presence can not be reduced as that gives a free reign to Pakistan to instigate further disturbance.

Plebiscite is not going to happen, it's a (political) suicide for whichever Indian leader proposes it. India will not give up Kashmir without a full blown war and since there is no way that Pakistan will be able to ever defeat India in a war, Kashmir's hopes of independence will remain a distant dream. Kashmiris need to realize this as they are stuck with us and should try to stop providing soft support to the terrorists(or separatist rebels if you'd prefer to call them that) if peace is to return to the valley.

Ya of course I realize that independence or anything of the sort will be incomprehensible. But IMO, the Kashmiris' most important grievance arises from the fact that their own State and its Army has always seen everyone of them as terrorists. There is a generation (of Burhan Wani) which has grown up living an occupied life and they are angry with the State. So while in earlier times it was necessary for Pakistan to intervene in Kashmir, now we see local residents leading the violence. Instead of retaliating, it is absolutely necessary for the State to provide an olive branch to this community and it has to start with the Army and occupation. At least that is what I think.

 

[Akshay]

Meanwhile, proof of global involvement in current Kashmir violence:

True. An independent Kashmir will be terrorist haven.
Also from India point of view the Kashmir region is important strategically from security perspective as well. The geography of region and Himalayas in particular help from defense perspective. It may sound far fetched but we need to be prepared for worst and the way world politics is going right now, we can't rule out a world war III in near future. If Kashmir becomes independent, Pak and China will virtually have a free run into main territory of country from North (Pak and China are not going to be on same side as India in this worst case scenario I am assuming and I don't expect any 'resistance' from this independent Kashmir with current demography towards infiltrators). Forget world war III, even otherwise, independent Kashmir gives free run for infiltration of terrorists and a weakened strategic and defense position in case of war.

The Himalayas have protected the country for ages from invaders and though China war of 1962 weakened it somewhat and we need Himalayas for future too

I think in the case of world war we have to worry about the nukes not the mountains . I agree it would push the border against state-sponsored terrorism closer to the rest of India, and that's a humanitarian and strategic concern.

 

[MJJ]

Meanwhile, proof of global involvement in current Kashmir violence:

 

[The Man Himself]

This guy however has faulty bowling action....banned by ICC

Spoiler

 

[baanke laal]

This guy however has faulty bowling action....banned by ICC

Spoiler

he got utterly rekt!

 

[MJJ]

Facebook has come under fire in recent days for suspending certain accounts on the social media platform, belonging to both native Kashmiris and foreigners present in and outside of the disputed Himalayan region.

The accounts which have been suspended till date had posted comments, pictures or videos to highlight the treatment meted out to Kashmiris in the latest episode of unrest.

Many Facebook user accounts criticising civilian killings or supporting Kashmir’s decades-old political struggle are being temporarily suspended, with their Kashmir-related posts being removed by the social media giant. Certain users have also claimed that their accounts have been completely blocked by Facebook, while others have complained of temporary blocks lasting for 24 hours or more.

With a blanket ban enforced by Indian authorities on all cellular companies except Bharat Sanchar Nigam Limited (BSNL) broadband, Kashmiris are facing tremendous difficulties.

The ban came into effect after the July 8 killing of Burhan Wani, the popular and tech-savvy Hizbul Mujahideen commander. The ban also extends to mobile internet connectivity, 2G/3G data connectivity, WhatsApp, and printing and publishing of newspapers.

Without cellular access, it has become increasingly difficult to coordinate calls for blood donations for those injured by Indian government forces or to provide aid and transport for women who are in labour. Citizens of the Valley are now availing services provided by BSNL broadband to disseminate time-critical information on Facebook and Twitter.

Facing international embarrassment, the under-fire Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) coalition government in a hurriedly taken decision on July 19 said, “There are no restrictions on printing and publishing of newspapers.”

The government’s decision has drawn a lot of flak from the editors’ body of Srinagar-based newspapers, Editors Guild of India, and several international organisations for its media gag.


Kashmiris are not alone in having their accounts suspended on Facebook, foreigners deemed as sympathisers are also in the cross hairs.

Hamza Ali Abbasi, TV and film actor who is vocal on social media regarding politics and social issues, had his post praising Wani removed by Facebook. His account was also suspended by the social media platform for a short while. “What can I say? Instances like these should teach us a lesson that we must put our own interests aside and define terrorism and terrorists as per the definition of the imperial minded so called champions of freedom of expression. Burhan Wani was not a terrorist and Kashmir’s freedom struggle is not terrorism, even if the US, India or Mark Zuckerberg think otherwise,” posted Abbasi on his timeline.

Mary Scully, an American socialist activist and a former socialist candidate for the US presidency, was outraged after her Facebook account was temporarily suspended for posting pro-Kashmiri sentiments on her timeline. “It’s a violation of the right to free speech embodied in the Bill of Rights,” said Scully while talking to Dawn.

“Facebook is obligated legally to respect the Bill of Rights and is not exempt in any way. It does not censor violent images of women but only those posts about human rights and war crimes. Facebook can have whatever reactionary politics the owners want but they cannot legally censor us in expressing ours,” she added.

Scully, in one of her posts, had drawn parallels between Kashmir and Gaza. “The monstrous symmetries between the Israeli carpet bombing of Gaza in July 2014 and the Indian military siege of Kashmir in July 2016 are a nightmare to witness. Hell to endure,” wrote Scully on July 18.

She also wrote, “FB’s censorship of posts about Kashmir, particularly those about the extrajudicial execution of Burhan Wani as well as videos of Indian Army violence, is a serious violation of the US Bill of Rights which legally binds FB since it operates out of this country.”

Censorship on the social media platform is not limited to posts on one’s timelines. Videos which show Indian paramilitary Central Reserve Police Force (CRPF) personnel beating Kashmiri teenagers, assaulting the injured and attacking ambulances carrying the wounded have also been removed from Twitter and Facebook.

Dibyesh Anand, academic and associate professor at London’s Westminster University, is known for his views in favour of the Kashmiri struggle. He confirmed to Dawn in an online conversation that he too was blocked twice by Facebook for his commentary on the recent Kashmir crisis.

“If scholars, writers and prominent public figures in Kashmir, India, Pakistan, UK and USA can be censored by Facebook for posts that are critical of Indian atrocities but legally sound and socially responsible, we can imagine the message it gives out to ordinary people facing a siege in Kashmir. The message is one where not only the mainstream media, but social media is also seen in cahoots with the Indian nation state. We need to reject such censorship that becomes complicit with an ongoing humanitarian crisis,” he said.

“Kashmir is the way. Kashmir is the future. Let a thousand Kashmiris bloom,” wrote Kuffir Nalgunduwar, an Ambedkarite activist and poet, who was also blocked by Facebook.

Dr Peer Suhail Masoodi, a development practitioner and policy analyst based in Srinagar, has also criticised Facebook’s policy of censoring pro-Kashmir posts. “Mark Zuckerberg is the new cyber police chief of Jammu and Kashmir. Your FB posts are being monitored. Any “anti-government” post will be immediately removed and you’ll be booked under Facebook Violation Act — FVA,” Masoodi wrote on his timeline.

“Facebook was seen as an independent and credible platform for connecting people, and sharing ideas of critical importance. However, the removal of posts and blocking FB profiles of those who have criticised Indian policies in Kashmir not only makes people apprehensive to express their opinions freely on Facebook, but, more importantly, Facebook has lost the credibility of providing an alternative platform for discussion,” Dr Masoodi told Dawn.

In a statement to The Guardian, Facebook said: “There is no place on Facebook for content that praises or supports terrorists, terrorist organisations or terrorism. We welcome discussion on these subjects but any terrorist content has to be clearly put in context which condemns these organisations and or their violent activities. Therefore, profiles and content supporting or praising Hizbul Mujahideen and Burhan Wani are removed as soon as they are reported to us. In this instance, some content was removed in error, but this has now been restored.”

Pakistan’s digital-rights advocate Nighat Dad, when asked by Dawn to comment said, “Facebook has come under fire in the past for appearing to arbitrarily remove ‘objectionable’ material, going by very general definitions. Regarding the controversy regarding Kashmir, the company has said that there ‘is no place on Facebook for content that praises or supports terrorists, terrorist organisations or terrorism. We welcome discussion on these subjects but any terrorist content has to be clearly put in context which condemns these organisations and or their violent activities’.”

She added that in the context of Kashmir, it is possible that Facebook is going on complaints made by individual Facebook users, and has exercised the decision to remove the pages in that context. This controversy highlights an ongoing problem with Facebook, in that in an attempt to placate its user base, it makes censorship or removal decisions in a scattershot manner, only to reverse those decisions later.

 

[FromTheBench]

Btw quite a contrasting parralell as to how jat agitation in haryana was handled vs how this kashmiri unrest has been handled.

As for the larger kashmir problem i generally think a referendum like previously done in sm north east states should be the eventual solution. But it can only be free and fair in normalized situation. Though yes no indian political leader is gonna have that much political capital anyway. So what is needed is to integrate ppl of kashmir more in the indian society. Even partially remove the army at time of peace zone by zone. Built local capability more.

On this count this pdp bjp govt. And central govt has failed again. As previous to this after 2010 the situation was normalized relatively but no special steps were taken to win people over. It has just been both bjp and pdp pandering to their respective jammu and kashmir regions and furthering the divide. The hyper nationalist are only seemingly concerned about kashmiri land not kashmiri people who then get swayed by seperatist and hurriyat type fellas.

 

[MJJ]

Apparently indian police have been using pellet guns on the kashmiri protestors which has led to the loss of eyesight for loads of people. Surely there is a better way to handle the protest?

 

[berbatrick]

You guys will slaughter the prime minister who proposes that.

I hadn't seen this thread so far, so sorry for the late reply.
The only type of PM who can get away with a major concession to either Kashmiris or to Pakistan (I want to differentiate between the 2) is an ultra-nationalist like Modi whose "patriotism" can never be questioned.


Anyway onto the thread:
AFSPA is hated and recently the Supreme Court passed orders against it. Leaving aside any practical issues, it shows that we (the rest of India) treat Kashmiris (and NE) as a foreign people to be suppressed.
Onto practical issues: withdrawing AFSPA does not mean withdrawing the army. And withdrawing the army from the streets of Srinagar does not mean leaving the border unguarded. Reducing the use of the army and paramiltaries will remove the principal grievance of Kashmiris and give Pakistani agents less "raw material" to work with in terms of radicalisation. The latest data I could find via a quick google said that 70 people joined militant groups in 2014, and total estimates from the same time were about 300 militants in all of Kashmir. For comparison, there are 700,000 Indian soldiers in Kashmir.

 

[MJJ]

I hadn't seen this thread so far, so sorry for the late reply.
The only type of PM who can get away with a major concession to either Kashmiris or to Pakistan (I want to differentiate between the 2) is an ultra-nationalist like Modi whose "patriotism" can never be questioned.


Anyway onto the thread:
AFSPA is hated and recently the Supreme Court passed orders against it. Leaving aside any practical issues, it shows that we (the rest of India) treat Kashmiris (and NE) as a foreign people to be suppressed.
Onto practical issues: withdrawing AFSPA does not mean withdrawing the army. And withdrawing the army from the streets of Srinagar does not mean leaving the border unguarded. Reducing the use of the army and paramiltaries will remove the principal grievance of Kashmiris and give Pakistani agents less "raw material" to work with in terms of radicalisation. The latest data I could find via a quick google said that 70 people joined militant groups in 2014, and total estimates from the same time were about 300 militants in all of Kashmir. For comparison, there are 700,000 Indian soldiers in Kashmir.

I dont think even modi can sell that, no country willingly gives up land. I think you guys best bet is to integrate kashmir with the rest of the society rather than treating them as shit.

 

[berbatrick]

Article dump, these are 4 different views and I thought they were all useful:

From a far-left Kashmiri, with her take on post-1947 history: https://www.facebook.com/ShoraSR/posts/1800518160179943

Pakistani Kashmir: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...-demand-for-independent-kashmir/1/642461.html

The danger of Islamists taking over the Kashmiri movement due to Pakistani backing:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...fighters-in-kashmir+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=in

Kashmiri Pandits: http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/sp...ttenconflict/2011/07/2011724204546645823.html

 

[RedDevil@84]

Referendum might not work well. In all probability, Kashmiris might vote for independence (not completely sure, but likely) given their complaints about the high handedness of Indian army and the govt.

But an independent Kashmir can happen only if someone really strong keeps pressure on countries like Pakistan and China not to try to occupy parts of it. Already the original Kashmir is divided into 3 parts. And even under whatever pressure, I dont see China crumbling. Even if China occupies certain parts, no country would think it is worth to put sanctions on China for that. I mean Kashmir might be important for Indian and Pakistanis, but the rest of the world would not be so keen.

I think one of the serious problems was because of making Kashmir a special zone, where outsiders could not settle or buy property. If it were like rest of India, it would have seen normal good and bad seen in every Indian state.
Next is removing AFSPA. I think it is time, India tries to remove AFSPA from Kashmir. Moves the armies to guard borders much more to prevent infiltration.

Overall the only way for Kashmiri youth to move forward is good education and job opportunities. Else the youth are going to get lured towards the cause of various political parties who have their own plans of getting into power and nothing else.

 

[VidaRed]

Locals burn Pakistan flag, protest escalates in PoK over rigged polls

NEELAM VALLEY: People in Neelum valley in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) on Friday took to the streets to protest against rigged July 21 elections, which was won by Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) party.

The PML-N bagged 31 out of the 41 seats up for grabs, while the Muslim Conference and Pakistan People's Party bagged three seats each.

The protesters had to face the police wrath as they burnt Pakistani flag and raised slogans against the government.

Besides blackening election posters, the protesters also burnt tyres, blocked traffic and clashed with the police personnel deployed on duty.

Widespread protests have been witnessed in the major PoK towns, including Muzaffarabad, Kotli, Chinari and Mirpur, after members of the PML (N) killed a supporter of the Muslim Conference (MC) in Muzaffarabad.

Locals allege that the elections in PoK are always fixed in favour of the ruling party in Pakistan, in current instance, for the PML-N.

The political parties have questioned the authenticity of the elections. They say public money has been wasted as the so-called democratic process was fraught with corrupt practices.

The Pakistan Human Rights Group has confirmed the allegations of corrupt practices, involving money and muscle power.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...oK-over-rigged-polls/articleshow/53447106.cms

 

[Organic Potatoes]

I started to do a bit of research on Kashmir to try to understand this conflict, and quickly realized just how little I knew.

 

[RedTiger]

Ya of course I realize that independence or anything of the sort will be incomprehensible. But IMO, the Kashmiris' most important grievance arises from the fact that their own State and its Army has always seen everyone of them as terrorists. There is a generation (of Burhan Wani) which has grown up living an occupied life and they are angry with the State. So while in earlier times it was necessary for Pakistan to intervene in Kashmir, now we see local residents leading the violence. Instead of retaliating, it is absolutely necessary for the State to provide an olive branch to this community and it has to start with the Army and occupation. At least that is what I think.

Only just read this now, this is an excellent post bro.

 

[Mani]

This guy however has faulty bowling action....banned by ICC

Spoiler

 

[shamans]

Indian violence in Kashmir goes overlooked on a global level. Then again, who cares if the victims aren't European.

 

[berbatrick]

Kashmir has been under curfew for nearly 50 days. This curfew will, inevitably, risk a new cycle of alienation, brutalisation and deprivation. There is a desperate search for small consolations. It is a failure of our political imagination that it took an army commander to remind us of the banal truth that at least all parties need to be talking to each other. We may console ourselves, as Chief Minister Mehbooba Mufti seems to claim, that only five per cent are responsible for this agitation. But we should not deny the fact that this agitation is geographically unprecedented. The state’s assumption that an informational clampdown will reduce the protestors’ ability to organise seems to have been deeply mistaken. The ability to perpetuate a cycle of violent provocation and counter provocation remains unabated. Fatigue may produce a fragile peace. But the suffocating logjam that has produced this crisis is not likely to abate in the absence of political boldness.

Platitudes are all back in play. But these platitudes may mark a strategy of avoidance rather than heralding a new breakthrough. Take the oft cited trinity: Kashmiriyat, jamhooriyat, and insaaniyat. When Vajpayee invoked them, they were a good starting point. But now they sound more like metaphysical abstractions unmoored from actual politics. Invoking them seems more like begging the question. Kashmiriyat has now mutated in ways that its meaning is not clear. Who will it include and exclude, and on what terms? There is no question, as this column has argued, that the Indian state has unconscionably failed in Kashmir. Its legitimacy is tenuous at best, a legal artefact secured by brute force. But normatively speaking, the very thing that makes us suspicious of hyper Indian nationalism should also make us suspicious of sub-nationalisms.

As a resistance to human rights violations, or homogenising cultural impositions, sub-nationalisms are understandable. But the very pathologies that make nationalism suspect are often equally on display in sub-nationalisms. Just like the question, “who is an Indian”, can be a trap to benchmark identity into a logic of conformity, the question of Kashmiriyat does the same. How will a political movement based on Kashmiriyat negotiate differences over the very idea? Can aazadi or a future within the Indian Union both be manifestations of Kashmiriyat? If so, how does invoking the concept solve the problem? If those invoking aazadi look upon any good faith cooperation with the Indian state as an act of betrayal, if the language of collaborators and traitors and the violence and psychological pressures it produces becomes widespread, how is dialogue possible?

The brutalisation produced by the war in Kashmir has also produced new internal logics of violence and conformity. The extent of religious radicalisation of the Kashmir movement is a matter for some debate. But it only exacerbates the question of Kashmiriyat. Second, in diverse populations, territorial secession almost always comes with ethnic cleansing. The alignment of territory and ethnicity is a deep form of closure, and in Kashmir that has already happened with the expulsion of the Pandits. Third, most movements born out of violence, whether perpetrated by the state, militants, or even reckless provocateurs, find it hard to overcome the traces of violence; the forms of protest will also produce their own new brutalisation. In short, Kashmiriyat at this point, is already a deeply shattered mirror that will distort reality as much as it represents it.

In fact, so deeply is the mirror shattered that even the question, who represents Kashmir, is now at an impasse. If you recognise Kashmiriyat you are seen as occluding differences within Kashmir that now run deep. If you don’t invoke Kashmiriyat you are accused of harbouring some assimilationist design of the Indian state. This argument is not meant to settle any of the normative issues or deny the legitimacy of the Kashmir movement, though in our era of suspicion it will be understandably read that way. But because the Indian state is deeply wrong, it does not follow that the current articulation of Kashmiriyat is any less in danger of taking on a pathological form. In South Asia, more generally, identity and territory are less promising normative frames in which to solve our problems than accepting diversity born of individual freedom and human rights. But freedom and human rights are always casualties of competing nationalisms.

The same is true of jamhooriyat. What are the terms of democracy we are looking at? Given the Indian state’s track record, most Kashmiris will rightly read this as an invocation of the status quo. After all, democratic incorporation through free and fair elections has been the Indian state’s gambit. What is the deeper or newer meaning of jamhooriyat that is on offer? A more radically asymmetric federalism? A reversal to the pre-1953 constitution? More radical decentralisation? All of this should be a matter of discussion. But there is not an iota of evidence that Delhi is willing to move on a variety of institutional proposals that have been gathering dust for decades. In fact, in some respects, democracy can impede more radical proposals for democracy. Even in Kashmir, the PDP and NC have more of an investment in embarrassing each other than they have in finding a common solution. All the forces that participate in democratic politics, as Delhi defines it, stand discredited. The innate risk averseness and structure of competitive politics in Delhi is such that all parties can come together to preserve the status quo, rather than risk imagining democracy differently. In short, jamhooriyat is a noble idea. But its competitive version is also, curiously, part of the problem.

On insaniyat, the plot was lost a long time ago. The brutal repression by the state, the ravages of militancy, the psychological effects of occupation, have made insaniyat hard to imagine in its institutional form. Decades of killings, disappearances, torture has now been replaced by the use of kids as fodder for violence. Insaniyat is, and has always been hostage to the demands of abstract passions like identity and territory. Insaniyat is already hemmed in: Territory before insaniyat, aazadi before insaniyat, borders before insaniyat, the lines of us and them before insaniyat.

Overcoming this logjam will take incredible political courage. All parties, including Pakistan, will have to be part of the dialogue, perhaps without preconditions. But it is a measure of our moral cul de sac that the very things that are supposed to be a part of the solution — Kashmiriyat, jamhooriyat and insaniyat — are the very things that reflect our contradictions and divisions. These are platitudes of avoidance.

http://indianexpress.com/article/op...i-kashmir-curfew-what-is-kashmiriyat-2998136/

 

[2cents]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Moonred]

So covert or overt now?

 

[snk123]

India behaves like Liverpool = always the victim.
They have been stirring shit up in Pakistan for decades - Balochistan, funding TTP in Afghanistan and recently, convicted criminals from MQM Karachi accepting being trained by RAW.

When they get a taste of their own medicine in Kashmir, they blame Pakistan because it's convenient.

 

[VP]

India behaves like Liverpool = always the victim.
They have been stirring shit up in Pakistan for decades - Balochistan, funding TTP in Afghanistan and recently, convicted criminals from MQM Karachi accepting being trained by RAW.

When they get a taste of their own medicine in Kashmir, they blame Pakistan because it's convenient.

Wow..I'm always amazed by Pakistan paranoia and delusion about India. State-sponsored terrorists from Pakistan kill Indians - who do you think India should blame here then?

 

[redindian1987]

India behaves like Liverpool = always the victim.
They have been stirring shit up in Pakistan for decades - Balochistan, funding TTP in Afghanistan and recently, convicted criminals from MQM Karachi accepting being trained by RAW.

When they get a taste of their own medicine in Kashmir, they blame Pakistan because it's convenient.

You accuse us of playing the victims, then play the victim yourself...

Yeah, we're funding the Taliban. A nation suffering from Jihadist violence is supporting Jihadists. That's completely logical. Yes, It's our media which rants endlessly about how the other side seeks to destroy us. It's India which cannot move on from 1971. Remind me, in which country are messages of annihilation and "Pakistani flag flying over the Red Fort" propagated endlessly.

Pakistan is where it is because it has refused to learn its lessons from its support of terrorism. The state is an international pariah. By all means, continue to feed into your fantasies while the reality is that most Indians cannot wait for the glorious moment when Pakistan will let us be so that we can solve our most pressing issues. Unlike some, we plan to have a decent future for all Indians.

"Taste of their own medicine"? People are dying...real classy.

 

[redindian1987]

Wow..I'm always amazed by Pakistan paranoia and delusion about India. State-sponsored terrorists from Pakistan kill Indians - who do you think India should blame here then?

Don't you know...its all an Indian plot to divert the attention from Sharif's upcoming speech in New York; which will be considered by future generations to be right up there with Winston Churchill.

 

[berbatrick]

Don't you know...its all an Indian plot to divert the attention from Sharif's upcoming speech in New York; which will be considered by future generations to be right up there with Winston Churchill.

1st rule of conspiracy theories: Everything is a distraction.
For example, apparently 26/11 was a diversion from a 30-person anti-Israel demonstration in Mumbai. If there was no 26/11 (which was obviously done by Mossad btw), Palestine would now be free.

 

[Varun]

This guy however has faulty bowling action....banned by ICC

Spoiler

The army man trolling him right at the end

 

[redindian1987]

Apparently indian police have been using pellet guns on the kashmiri protestors which has led to the loss of eyesight for loads of people. Surely there is a better way to handle the protest?

There was a huge furore after which a committee of bureaucrats deliberated over it and came up with a solution of using chilli-filled shells instead of pellet guns.

 

[snk123]

Wow..I'm always amazed by Pakistan paranoia and delusion about India. State-sponsored terrorists from Pakistan kill Indians - who do you think India should blame here then?

That's the BS your media and government feeds you. Pakistan does not have the time to meddle in Kashmir at the moment as it is at war on many fronts.

Also, the situation in Kashmir is a result of a long history of atrocities.

 

[snk123]

You accuse us of playing the victims, then play the victim yourself...

Yeah, we're funding the Taliban. A nation suffering from Jihadist violence is supporting Jihadists. That's completely logical.

Oh please. You are not suffering from Jihadist violence. Pakistan is. So by your logic, it is illogical that Pakistan is supporting the jihadists. That's not playing the victim card - that's a fact based on numbers.

Pakistan is where it is because it has refused to learn its lessons from its support of terrorism. The state is an international pariah. By all means, continue to feed into your fantasies while the reality is that most Indians cannot wait for the glorious moment when Pakistan will let us be so that we can solve our most pressing issues. Unlike some, we plan to have a decent future for all Indians.

That's also not true. Pakistan has a lot of pressing issues and has been at a direct war with Jihadists for the past 3 years. Constant meddling of India in Karachi, Balochistan and numerous reports of funding of TTP by RAW is not helping Pakistan completely get rid of the menace of terrorism.

Contrary to popular belief, Pakistan has suffered the most from terrorism and the people can't wait to live their lives in peace.

 

[RedDevil@84]

That's the BS your media and government feeds you. Pakistan does not have the time to meddle in Kashmir at the moment as it is at war on many fronts.

Also, the situation in Kashmir is a result of a long history of atrocities.

Lol... Says the person who believes every word of the BS your govt feeds you. Balochistan, terrorist training by RAW..

Funny that terrorists acknowledged by the entire world roam free in your streets. And you live in denial.

 

[snk123]

Lol... Says the person who believes every word of the BS your govt feeds you. Balochistan, terrorist training by RAW..

Funny that terrorists acknowledged by the entire world roam free in your streets. And you live in denial.

I don't think the India vs Pakistan discussion is going to end. But do you really believe RAW has not stirred shit up in Pakistan for decades now?