Kashmir

[RedDevil@84]

I don't think the India vs Pakistan discussion is going to end. But do you really believe RAW has not stirred shit up in Pakistan for decades now?

To some extent, I am ready to believe. A threat that we can stir shit in Pak if needed. But definitely not to the extent ISI has gone crazy with training and equipping terrorist organizations, thus making life dangerous for people on both sides.

Anyways to each his own.

 

[Neelu]

So is there a Hafiz Saeed in India then?

 

[Nighteyes]

India behaves like Liverpool = always the victim.
They have been stirring shit up in Pakistan for decades - Balochistan, funding TTP in Afghanistan and recently, convicted criminals from MQM Karachi accepting being trained by RAW.

When they get a taste of their own medicine in Kashmir, they blame Pakistan because it's convenient.

 

[redindian1987]

Oh please. You are not suffering from Jihadist violence. Pakistan is. So by your logic, it is illogical that Pakistan is supporting the jihadists. That's not playing the victim card - that's a fact based on numbers.



That's also not true. Pakistan has a lot of pressing issues and has been at a direct war with Jihadists for the past 3 years. Constant meddling of India in Karachi, Balochistan and numerous reports of funding of TTP by RAW is not helping Pakistan completely get rid of the menace of terrorism.

Contrary to popular belief, Pakistan has suffered the most from terrorism and the people can't wait to live their lives in peace.

Pakistan suffering terrorist acts is a consequence of the state patronizing terrorists for years. You cannot raise a snake in your backyard and then claim sympathy because the snake bit you. It's as ridiculous as India claiming sympathy for the existence of caste. Even today the state feeds into the logic of good terrorists and bad terrorists; patronizing the likes of Hafeez Sayeed and Massod Azhar.You're in war with one branch of Jihadists. The claim that Pakistan doesn't sponsor terrorism is bizarre.

I don't want to detail this thread anymore but if you really believe in this logic that the deep state feeds you, good luck. I'm sure we will be blamed when it all goes pear shaped as a result of your choices.

 

[Witchking]

So is there a Hafiz Saeed in India then?

Yes, her name is Barkha Dutt.

 

[snk123]

So is there a Hafiz Saeed in India then?

There are many Hafiz Saeeds in India.

Pakistan suffering terrorist acts is a consequence of the state patronizing terrorists for years. You cannot raise a snake in your backyard and then claim sympathy because the snake bit you. It's as ridiculous as India claiming sympathy for the existence of caste.

That is the past. A distant past too. What Pakistan did was a dangerous tactic but it was at the behest of U.S and that strategy worked in the short run. The problem was afterwards - where the U.S/Pakistan did not eradicate the menace that they had made

Again, let me add this video where Hillary sums it up brilliantly.

Even today the state feeds into the logic of good terrorists and bad terrorists; patronizing the likes of Hafeez Sayeed and Massod Azhar.You're in war with one branch of Jihadists. The claim that Pakistan doesn't sponsor terrorism is bizarre.

This is what is bizarre. Pakistan made a conscious decision to "not differentiate" between good and bad terrorists and went all out after APS. However, your media and government keeps feeding you this notion that somehow Pakistan is still supporting terrorists. Pakistan is in fact, the biggest victim of terrorism.

I don't want to detail this thread anymore but if you really believe in this logic that the deep state feeds you, good luck. I'm sure we will be blamed when it all goes pear shaped as a result of your choices.

It is your inability to realize both sides of the coin that fuels your intolerance. The snakes that you talk about feed on ammunition and money and guess what, India is way richer than Pakistan. Go figure.

 

[snk123]

I think there is a thread for India vs Pakistan discussion although I don't expect any fruitful discussion in there too.

The situation in Kashmir is directly related with the atrocities of Indian authorities and has nothing to do with Pakistan.
Realistically, it makes absolutely no sense for Pakistan, fighting on all fronts - FATA, terrorism, Karachi, Balochistan to indulge in Kashmir as well.

And it would be very stupid to carry out such an attack at a time when the world was taking a note of the Indian aggression in Kashmir.

 

[Neelu]

There are many Hafiz Saeeds in India.

I am all ears. Not sure how he is roaming free in your country even though "your country has made a conscious decision to "not differentiate" between good and bad terrorists".

 

[Stanzin Lama]

We should be careful not to mix the current issue of terrorism with the conflict in Kashmir. Perhaps two different threads because these are two different issues. As I see it, Kashmir valley is on its 3rd month of agitation?

 

[Witchking]

I think there is a thread for India vs Pakistan discussion although I don't expect any fruitful discussion in there too.

The situation in Kashmir is directly related with the atrocities of Indian authorities and has nothing to do with Pakistan.
Realistically, it makes absolutely no sense for Pakistan, fighting on all fronts - FATA, terrorism, Karachi, Balochistan to indulge in Kashmir as well.

And it would be very stupid to carry out such an attack at a time when the world was taking a note of the Indian aggression in Kashmir.

Then learn to stay out of it. Don't parrot the same old defense your government uses and tin foil hat thoeries about India blowing itself up and killing it's own soliders to show pakistan in bad light and withdraw eyes from Kashmir.
India is a growing economy who cannot afford to indugle in such stupid stuff by killing it's own to prove a point, but oh of course Mumbai 26/11 was also an inside job.

The Kashmir solution asks for Pakistan to withdraw majority of all pakistanis from kashmir first. Is your government ready to do that? Just going to UN and crying about Kashmir isn't going to solve anything and you will be ignored just like you have been for so long.

 

[RedDevil@84]

The situation in Kashmir is directly related with the atrocities of Indian authorities and has nothing to do with Pakistan.

Not completely. Indian authorities are only partially responsible for the situation. Political leaders who are living off the money given to them by various organizations (including those terrorists who have made Pak their safe haven) are paying and brainwashing the youth to go out and do stone pelting. They are even directly paying them handsomely for rioting.

 

[Nighteyes]

The situation in Kashmir is directly related with the atrocities of Indian authorities and has nothing to do with Pakistan.

And you accuse others of a lack of understanding and tolerance after coming out with shite like this. fml

 

[snk123]

Then learn to stay out of it. Don't parrot the same old defense your government uses and tin foil hat thoeries about India blowing itself up and killing it's own soliders to show pakistan in bad light and withdraw eyes from Kashmir.

So I should not voice my opinion on a forum now? I'm saying Pakistan had nothing to do with it - not saying it was an inside job. Terrorism is rampant all over the world.

 

[Witchking]

So I should not voice my opinion on a forum now? I'm saying Pakistan had nothing to do with it - not saying it was an inside job. Terrorism is rampant all over the world.

Should have been more clear. I meant that for the Pakistan Government.

 

[VP]

So I should not voice my opinion on a forum now? I'm saying Pakistan had nothing to do with it - not saying it was an inside job. Terrorism is rampant all over the world.

What about 26/11? Pakistan had nothing to do with that either I presume.

Actually don't know why we're indulging you, no chance of a Pakistani ever admitting culpability when it comes to India. I've met folks of Pakistani origin who've never set foot in the country but claim that India is the root of all their problems - it's North Korean level of brainwashing.

 

[snk123]

Actually don't know why we're indulging you, no chance of a Pakistani ever admitting culpability when it comes to India. I've met folks of Pakistani origin who've never set foot in the country but claim that India is the root of all their problems - it's North Korean level of brainwashing.

Again, If anything, I'm the only one who has admitted Pakistan's role in terrorism from the 70's onwards. All I'm saying is that the narrative changed when APS happened.

However, I am yet to meet any Indian friend who is ready to accept that RAW has plotted thousands of terrorist attacks in Pakistan. They have constantly meddled in Balochistan. They have funded TTP in Afghanistan. They have created a mess in Karachi from 90's onwards.

Not one. That is North Korean level of brainwashing

 

[snk123]

And you accuse others of a lack of understanding and tolerance after coming out with shite like this. fml

Shite? Read about what your Army is doing in Kashmir instead of blaming Pakistan for each and everything.

 

[Neelu]

Maybe this is Barkha Dutt's account?

 

[Witchking]

This situation will never ever improve till Pakistan who bleat on about the UN solution will not move themselves out of Kashmir as the first step towards that resolution. They will keep harping about it in every meeting and will be ignored and then will give a free reign to terrorists like Hafeez Saeed, not let their economy grow but will look at their neighbours and see how thier growth can be halted how seeds of hatred can be grown and how instability can be caused.

I am truly of the opinion that both countries if they stand together can be a huge positive for the region. I am also sure that majority of the people want that, but it certianly looks like a lot of them have been brainwashed from childhood itself about Pakistan winning all the wars, India snatching kashmir, India bullying Pakistan. You wonder why and how every other country in the world has the same opinion of Pakistan, Bin Laden was found in Pakistan, Dawood is suspected to be in Pakistan, yet it's India's fault. Don't know how that works.

 

[VP]

Again, If anything, I'm the only one who has admitted Pakistan's role in terrorism from the 70's onwards. All I'm saying is that the narrative changed when APS happened.

However, I am yet to meet any Indian friend who is ready to accept that RAW has plotted thousands of terrorist attacks in Pakistan. They have constantly meddled in Balochistan. They have funded TTP in Afghanistan. They have created a mess in Karachi from 90's onwards.

Not one. That is North Korean level of brainwashing

Right, so India is responsible for thousands of terrorist attacks in Pakistan - and you ask why no one accepts that.

I wouldn't be surprised if India has interfered in Balochistan but to claim that the level of involvement is comparable to Pakistan's regular grooming of terrorists is pure delusion.

 

[snk123]

This situation will never ever improve till Pakistan who bleat on about the UN solution will not move themselves out of Kashmir as the first step towards that resolution. They will keep harping about it in every meeting and will be ignored and then will give a free reign to terrorists like Hafeez Saeed, not let their economy grow but will look at their neighbours and see how thier growth can be halted how seeds of hatred can be grown and how instability can be caused.

I am truly of the opinion that both countries if they stand together can be a huge positive for the region. I am also sure that majority of the people want that, but it certianly looks like a lot of them have been brainwashed from childhood itself about Pakistan winning all the wars, India snatching kashmir, India bullying Pakistan. You wonder why and how every other country in the world has the same opinion of Pakistan, Bin Laden was found in Pakistan, Dawood is suspected to be in Pakistan, yet it's India's fault. Don't know how that works.

Again, your failure to admit what RAW has been doing in Pakistan is glaring. No one believes Pakistan won all the wars.

Everything you've mentioned is equally applicable to India. (except the Bin Laden part) Pakistan is the biggest victim of terrorism. Pakistan wants to move forward and improve its economy - hence CPEC. It has been India's policy of disrupting any progress Pakistan desires to make = their very public disapproval of the China Pak Corridor.

It is your complete ignorance and lack of ability to see both sides of the coin that is astounding.

 

[snk123]

Right, so India is responsible for thousands of terrorist attacks in Pakistan - and you ask why no one accepts that.

"plotting" thousands of attacks in Pakistan.

I wouldn't be surprised if India has interfered in Balochistan but to claim that the level of involvement is comparable to Pakistan's regular grooming of terrorists is pure delusion.

India is way richer than Pakistan - terrorist feed on money. The attacks on Pakistani soil have been far, far more than on Indian soil. So definitely the level of involvement is not comparable. RAW is far ahead on that front.

How stupid and delusional one must be to think that Pakistan with a plethora of problems in FATA, Karachi, Waziristan and internal jihadists would try to also start something with a nuclear neighbor. In what way would that even benefit Pakistan?

The level of brainwashing is truly amazing.

 

[Neelu]

India is carrying out thousands of attacks in Pakistan yet the only topic Pakistan wants to discuss with us is Kashmir. Go figure.

 

[RedDevil@84]

If someone says that RAW is responsible for floods and earthquakes in Pakistan, even that will be accepted.

 

[Witchking]

If someone says that RAW is responsible for floods and earthquakes in Pakistan, even that will be accepted.

There was a "scholar" who wrote a book about it or something similar. Video i think is still there on youtube

 

[snk123]

If someone says that RAW is responsible for floods and earthquakes in Pakistan, even that will be accepted.

It's funny because nearly every retort you have is 100% applicable to India as well.

 

[RedDevil@84]

It's funny because nearly every retort you have is 100% applicable to India as well.

What is more funny is when you suggest that your brainwashed version is much more logical than ours brainwashed version.

 

[Witchking]

India is carrying out thousands of attacks in Pakistan yet the only topic Pakistan wants to discuss with us is Kashmir. Go figure.

This is something Pakistan will never have an answer for. For all attacks on India, we have been stupid enough to provide evidence and let them come to Pathankot and yet the courts in Pakistan still haven't got a ruling for 26/11.

What evidence has pakistan shown for all the "plotting" India has done? Oh well, my great Prime Minister said so. ISI said so.

 

[snk123]

What evidence has pakistan shown for all the "plotting" India has done? Oh well, my great Prime Minister said so. ISI said so.

Evidence has been given time and time again. Terrorists have admitted to being trained by RAW again and again. You are ignorant of that because your media does not highlight it.

 

[berbatrick]

I think after an Indian spy was caught in Balochistan there is no need to pretend we aren't interfering there.

Edit: It's probably even more absurd to claim Pak isn't interfering when there was an attack on a border post.

 

[snk123]

What is more funny is when you suggest that your brainwashed version is much more logical than ours brainwashed version.

That is not what I have said. I'm calling for equality. Admitting that RAW has been equally guilty of trying anything and everything possible to destabilize Pakistan even to this day. I believe Pakistan's narrative is completely different after APS and the Pakistan Army has done everything possible to get rid of terrorism.

However, your reaction to a rare terrorist attack in Kashmir shows you are completely oblivious to the fact that RAW has constantly done the same to Pakistan in Balochistan, FATA and Karachi.

I don't believe that the Kashmir attack was instigated by Pakistan because it logically makes absolutely no sense for a country in so much problems to start another one. I also don't believe Pakistan would proxy attack India in Kashmir at a time when the world was acknowledging the plight of Kashmiris.

Nothing adds up. India has always, always blamed Pakistan for anything and everything that has happened in their country.
It has never admitted to any wrongdoing when it has been far superior to Pakistan and also it has always been easier to get into Pakistan via Afghanistan than it is for ISI to get into India.

Again, all of this discussion does not belong in this thread.

 

[berbatrick]

I don't believe that the Kashmir attack was instigated by Pakistan because it logically makes absolutely no sense for a country in so much problems to start another one. I also don't believe Pakistan would proxy attack India in Kashmir at a time when the world was acknowledging the plight of Kashmiris.

The government and especially Pak army, =/= the country.

 

[snk123]

The government and especially Pak army, =/= the country.

Pak Army is engaged with terrorists in FATA, Balochistan, Karachi and also responsible to ensure safety of the China Pak Economic Corridor. It makes zero sense for them to try something in Kashmir at this time.

 

[Nighteyes]

Shite? Read about what your Army is doing in Kashmir instead of blaming Pakistan for each and everything.

We've been shite and unnecessarily harsh at handling the aftermath of our army killing a terrorist in Kashmir, yes. Accepted.

Suggesting that Pakistan have had nothing to do with Kashmir is stupidity and delusion on such an alarming scale that's it not even worth engaging with you any further. You're just what you are accusing everyone else of being. Extremely gullible and utterly brainwashed.

Pakistan's involvement in terror activities in India is well documented and not just in Kashmir.

It makes zero sense for them to try something in Kashmir at this time.

Like that has stopped Pakistan before.

 

[The Man Himself]

If India is Corleone family and Pakistan is Tattaglia, China is Barzini family. We need to take care of fecking Barzini first. Let's hire Trump. He beats China all the time.

 

[snk123]

Suggesting that Pakistan have had nothing to do with Kashmir is stupidity and delusion on such an alarming scale that's it not even worth engaging with you any further.

Please don't misquote me to prove a point. My point was Pakistan has nothing to do with the anti-India rhetoric in Kashmir at the moment. Right now, Kashmir wants independence - they don't even want to join Pakistan.

Also, I do not want to engage in this debate any further as well because of the alarming level of delusion and bias.

You're just what you are accusing everyone else of being. Extremely gullible and utterly brainwashed.

I believe I have been very reasonable in presenting my point of view. I have admitted Pakistan's involvement in terrorism from the 70s. However, again, even though I'm outnumbered by 1 to 10 on this forum, I'm yet to see any sort of acceptance of India's involvement in terrorism in Pakistan during that period.

To think that RAW took all the terrorism from ISI and never instigated the same in Pakistan is a remarkable level of ignorance.

Pakistan's involvement in terror activities in India is well documented and not just in Kashmir.

India's involvement in terror activities in Pakistan is well documented and not just in Balochistan.

There you go. Every statement you can muster can be used against India just like that. The point is realizing that India and Pakistan have been at war since 1947 and RAW has been doing exactly what ISI has been doing. i.e. destablizing the other country by whichever means possible.

However, I believe Pakistan's narrative completely changed after APS - but RAW's remained the same. Pakistan went to war against terrorists on all fronts. RAW continued to meddle in Pakistan.

Call that brainwashing because it's convenient but I have more information than you lot and know what to believe and what not to.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Right now, Kashmir wants independence - they don't even want to join Pakistan.

Fair, so how about actually giving PoK independence, then? Somehow I don't see that happening

 

[MDFC Manager]

There's probably not going to be a concrete Kashmir solution until Pakistan becomes a mature democracy. I.e stop being puppeteered by the army and their 1971 relics.

 

[Nighteyes]

Call that brainwashing because it's convenient but I have more information than you lot and know what to believe and what not to.

Great! Now we have a CE itk on the forum.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Fair, so how about actually giving PoK independence, then? Somehow I don't see that happening

Didn't you know it was already called "Aazad Kashmir" when it is actually "Qabzaa Kashmir"