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Kashmir

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,783
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
Wow. Reading this page it's like I'm right there watching one of the dumbest conflicts in the history of mankind.

Smarten the feck up, idiots, or I'll start swinging the ban-stick, and quite indiscriminately at that.
 

berbatrick

Renaissance Man
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
21,800
Today's Indian firing killed 2 Pakistani soldiers. What are these posts supposed to mean? Is that not being "happy" at the loss of lives?
No, my post referred to the confused public reaction from the Pak high command. The army said it was LoC firing and Sharif called a meeting and said it was a serious atrocity (which is not the normal reaction for LoC firing)
I'm anti-war. There is nothing to win for either side here.
 

snk123

New Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
2,733
No, my post referred to the confused public reaction from the Pak high command. The army said it was LoC firing and Sharif called a meeting and said it was a serious atrocity (which is not the normal reaction for LoC firing)
I'm anti-war. There is nothing to win for either side here.
My comment was also in response to what I perceived were giddy, arrogant remarks - I'm sure nobody wants war.
 

MDFC Manager

Full Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
24,432
Narrative being changed as we speak:lol: Apparently an Indian soldier captured. Was he kidnapped from the Indian side? Or were Indian cannons shooting Indian soldiers during their "cross border firing"? :wenger:
 

Moonred

Full Member
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Nov 15, 2012
Messages
10,324
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Virgo Supercluster
I'd recommend you lock this thread for a day or two. Hate to see anyone getting banned.
Not sure why you need to lock the thread. Any kind of chest thumping should be avoided when it comes to citizens or soldiers dying. Terrorists on the other hand is a different thing. I agree with you that folks need to stay out of the thread if you can't keep your emotions in check.
 

Akshay

Moderator
Staff
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Jun 14, 2014
Messages
10,860
Location
A base camp for the last, final assault
If someone says, "About fecking time :drool:" - when people have died - what is that supposed to mean?
There's been a lot of talk from the Indian government about dealing with cross-border terrorism and getting tough on terror and all the rest of the rhetoric. A lot of Indians perceived them to be empty words until these strikes, and are glad to see real action being taken. There is also a difference in soldiers being killed versus militants who were planning more attacks being taken down.
 

amolbhatia50k

Sneaky bum time - Vaccination status: dozed off
Joined
Nov 8, 2002
Messages
95,829
Location
india
Wow.

Breaking news: India fails to gather balls for surgical strikes. Renames LOC cross border fire as surgical strikes. Tomorrow it will invade Pakistan's capital by renaming Delhi as Islamabad.
:lol: Miserable standard of posting. I know it's an emotional topic for many but this isn't the YouTube comment section.
 

2cents

Historiographer, and obtainer of rare antiquities
Scout
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
16,322
Pakistan as a nation will probably cease to exist in another 50 years, so in all likelihood Kashmir will become independent...just depends if India will ever allow it.
Why do you think that?
 

RedTiger

Half mast
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
23,058
Location
Beside the sea-side, Beside the sea.
Why do you think that?
Pakistan is kept together using religion, unfortunately in south Asia, blood and ethnicity is way more important.

balochistan is on its way to seceding from the Pakistani union and I'm sure the Sindhi's and Pashtu's won't be too far behind.

Edit: I also think the same will happen to the Indian union.
 

Moby

Dick
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
51,356
Location
Barcelona, Catalunya
There is nothing to win for either side here.
What?

Both India and Pakistan have been hugely affected by the terrorism situation in the said area far the past many years. Civilians of both nations have lost their lives because of the attacks conducted by the groups that reside there. How is an attempt in uprooting that anything but a massive improvement in terms of civilian security for either nation? By your logic we should just let the terrorist camps continue breeding more terrorists who continue to traumatise the people of both nations. If anything the two countries have to unite their forces and deal with this problem. There's literally EVERYTHING to win if this area can be brought to a civilised state. There's no need of a war of course but your second statement is insane.
 

RedTiger

Half mast
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Messages
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Location
Beside the sea-side, Beside the sea.
You won't believe this! I've just had a sales call from India concerning gas and electricity, the guy asked for the manager and I told him he's not here (I don't want to talk to them), he then goes off on one talking about how "we're going to destroy pakistan"....seriously, out of fecking nowhere he just comes out with that:eek: I assume he thought I was of Pakistani heritage or something.
 

snk123

New Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
2,733
You won't believe this! I've just had a sales call from India concerning gas and electricity, the guy asked for the manager and I told him he's not here (I don't want to talk to them), he then goes off on one talking about how "we're going to destroy pakistan"....seriously, out of fecking nowhere he just comes out with that:eek: I assume he thought I was of Pakistani heritage or something.
I was wrong when I said nobody wants war. There are war mongers both sides (for some reason a lot in India) .

Don't think they realize what a war between two nuclear nations mean.
 

anant

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
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Messages
8,260
I was wrong when I said nobody wants war. There are war mongers both sides (for some reason a lot in India) .

Don't think they realize what a war between two nuclear nations mean.
Even if there is a war, I doubt if Pak will exercise use of Nukes.( India has a no 1st use policy). Pak using Nukes would mean China unable to support them vocally or financially, US and the EU siding with India unanimously. Even if China does declare support of Pak and help in war, a nuke would change things with US and EU supporting India in war, and eventually ending in a WW3
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Even if there is a war, I doubt if Pak will exercise use of Nukes.( India has a no 1st use policy). Pak using Nukes would mean China unable to support them vocally or financially, US and the EU siding with India unanimously. Even if China does declare support of Pak and help in war, a nuke would change things with US and EU supporting India in war, and eventually ending in a WW3
And I doubt US or EU would step this in. It still is a regional war and all I can see is this extending to include Russia (for India) and China (for Pak), but that's it. WW3 is definitely a stretch.

But then, too early to be discussing these.
 

snk123

New Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
2,733
Narrative being changed as we speak:lol: Apparently an Indian soldier captured. Was he kidnapped from the Indian side? Or were Indian cannons shooting Indian soldiers during their "cross border firing"? :wenger:
1 soldier from 37RR has inadvertently crossed over to other side of LOC. Pak has been informed by DGMO on hotline
Such inadvertent crossing by Army and civilians not unusual on either side. They are returned through existing mechanisms: PTI sources

Source:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Surgical-strikes-across-LoC/liveblog/54580305.cms

You were saying? :wenger:

How considerate of India to inform Pakistan that one soldier accidentally crossed the LOC after the "surgical strikes".
 

Neelu

Likes to eat cement and rubber but not boogers
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
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Today's Indian firing killed 2 Pakistani soldiers. What are these posts supposed to mean? Is that not being "happy" at the loss of lives?
My post was about the timing of the hockey match win.
 

Stanzin Lama

Full Member
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Dec 20, 2013
Messages
582
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Mystic Mountains
Mate, the guy sounded so fecking happy telling me this, that's the most unnerving thing.
That is what you get when the media has been harping about retaliation 24X7. I am deeply concerned with this ultra-nationalistic approach that Indian media has taken in recent years. I am pretty sure such strikes always happened in the past. The fact that it has been chosen to be presented in the media however, is a new phenomenon. Pretty sure it is meant to appease the bloodlust that has emerged. For me war is never a solution, and foreign policy is there for that reason. I am pretty sure those shouting at the media won't be enrolling or sending anyone from their family to war. Celebrating the Army and putting eagerness to put them in the front for war are juxtapositions that we find quite frequently in India and even more so these days.
 

berbatrick

Renaissance Man
Scout
Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
21,800
That is what you get when the media has been harping about retaliation 24X7. I am deeply concerned with this ultra-nationalistic approach that Indian media has taken in recent years. I am pretty sure such strikes always happened in the past. The fact that it has been chosen to be presented in the media however, is a new phenomenon. Pretty sure it is meant to appease the bloodlust that has emerged. For me war is never a solution, and foreign policy is there for that reason. I am pretty sure those shouting at the media won't be enrolling or sending anyone from their family to war. Celebrating the Army and putting eagerness to put them in the front for war are juxtapositions that we find quite frequently in India and even more so these days.

Good post IMO.
 

VP

Full Member
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
11,558
Pakistan is kept together using religion, unfortunately in south Asia, blood and ethnicity is way more important.

balochistan is on its way to seceding from the Pakistani union and I'm sure the Sindhi's and Pashtu's won't be too far behind.

Edit: I also think the same will happen to the Indian union.
People, usually foreigners, have been saying this for decades...
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
That is what you get when the media has been harping about retaliation 24X7. I am deeply concerned with this ultra-nationalistic approach that Indian media has taken in recent years. I am pretty sure such strikes always happened in the past. The fact that it has been chosen to be presented in the media however, is a new phenomenon. Pretty sure it is meant to appease the bloodlust that has emerged. For me war is never a solution, and foreign policy is there for that reason. I am pretty sure those shouting at the media won't be enrolling or sending anyone from their family to war. Celebrating the Army and putting eagerness to put them in the front for war are juxtapositions that we find quite frequently in India and even more so these days.
Nonsense.
Retaliation was what was needed. You can keep acting intellectual from outside, but there are soldiers and civilians dying because of Pakistan's continued support for terrorist activities.
No, this kind of strikes don't happen often. Crossing LoC and doing surgical strikes is not same as random cross border skirmishes.
Media is not asking for war, they were asking for retaliation which is different and that was voice of people. After all these years, after every militant attack or terrorist attack, often India's response was 'strong condemnation.' The public was asking for response this time, response was what was needed and response has been given and will be in future too if needed.

The army has made it clear that there won't be further strikes unless of course Pak continues its terror support like Uri attack. Stupid fear-mongering saying retaliation will cause war means nothing to country which is suffering because of state-sponsored terrorism. "Let's try to solve it peacefully" when other side is not interested in peace doesn't work. India has tried that for 30+ years.
 
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KM

I’m afraid I just blue myself
Joined
Sep 18, 2008
Messages
49,767
Wow. Reading this page it's like I'm right there watching one of the dumbest conflicts in the history of mankind.

Smarten the feck up, idiots, or I'll start swinging the ban-stick, and quite indiscriminately at that.
There's just one idiot who's stinking up the place and constantly making goading posts.
 

The Man Himself

asked for a tagline change and all I got was this.
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
22,406
It maybe semantics but I see difference in this being surgical strike, at multiple locations. The article explains what surgical strike is and strikes of that kind, at multiple locations, hasn't happened that often. The part that it wasn't made official before, on very few occasions it happened is true with reason being it meant a counter was done while continuing the outer pretense of solving through dialogue. It also helped pretend or be in denial that things are not bad as well. That's not true though. Violation of ceasefire from Pak has increased recently and there was Uri attack. Don't forget Pathankot too. Pakistan has never proactively or genuinely tried to reach peace. Maybe it is because of Army power in that country but whatever the reason, there is a limit till which India can keep on trying for peace, one-sided.

That the attack is made official isn't only to please media (Here too we can't generalize. Media has been more of left leaning in India till now. Now some take nationalistic stands, other stick to the supposed 'liberal' side. The general public has wanted some concrete reaction and not just in last 2 years but for many years. Being tough on terrorists and militants crossing into country was a key expectation from BJP led government.

A key reason I see that India is able to make it official is also because of the diplomatic work being done on this topic by current government for past 2 years on global level. In each and every forum India is highlighting Pak's role in terrorist activities. If Pakistan runs to US over these strikes like before, they are not going to get support anymore. Within this region, India has got support from Bangladesh and Afghanistan. Bangladesh has supported these strikes. So, the geopolitical situation and leverage India has on global scale, is different now than it was before. Making it official before would have attracted global pressure. Now, it will be lot lesser, if any.
 

VidaRed

Unimaginative FC
Joined
Aug 23, 2007
Messages
29,612
Pakistan is kept together using religion, unfortunately in south Asia, blood and ethnicity is way more important.

balochistan is on its way to seceding from the Pakistani union and I'm sure the Sindhi's and Pashtu's won't be too far behind.

Edit: I also think the same will happen to the Indian union.
Unlikely, we aren't a theocratic state enforcing one set of beliefs onto everyone within the state.
 

FromTheBench

Full Member
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May 3, 2014
Messages
10,479
That the attack is made official isn't only to please media (Here too we can't generalize. Media has been more of left leaning in India till now. Now some take nationalistic stands, other stick to the supposed 'liberal' side. The general public has wanted some concrete reaction and not just in last 2 years but for many years. Being tough on terrorists and militants crossing into country was a key expectation from BJP led government.
Huh ? Indian media except maybe 1/2 relatively moderate channels on this issue has been far from liberal. Infact they have been war mongering and doing jingoism to ridiculous extents. Pakistan media has been same it seems.

These surgical strikes (whatever degree it was assuming the truth lies between what both sides are claiming) have happened before, but this time i think it has been made public due to to the pressure that was put especially considering the rhetoric BJP govt. did before and also due to the geopolitical situation to an extent.

Btw, Bangladesh and Afghanistan have always supported India in recent times and don't really count for much. USA is being neutral till now but what China and it's influence does in this area might be crucial if there is escalation. Btw, Interestingly India's old ally Russia has not supported India much after Uri, Even conducting joint excercises with pakistan military recently.
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,470
Just out of interest who is actually from Kashmir on the Caf..