Kashmir

[shamans]

Most of the terrorist attacks happening in Pakistan are the handiwork of the Taliban. To claim that India funds the Taliban is illogical. Especially when buildings built with Indian assistance (not to mention the Indian consulate) have been attacked by the Taliban. It's not me that blames Pakistan for Uri; the international community does so.

Like I said, I'm not picking and choosing. There is evidence for one, not the other.

I'm afraid your evidence is based on hearsay or the media.

 

[snk123]

Most of the terrorist attacks happening in Pakistan are the handiwork of the Taliban. To claim that India funds the Taliban is illogical. Especially when buildings built with Indian assistance (not to mention the Indian consulate) have been attacked by the Taliban.

Taliban that Pakistan supposedly controls are attacking Pakistan. That isn't illogical?

It's not me that blames Pakistan for Uri; the international community does so.

Where?

Like I said, I'm not picking and choosing. There is evidence for one, not the other.

Saulat Mirza - a criminal hanged to death this year in Pakistan: "According to the JIT report obtained by Geo News, Mirza said funding to MQM came from RAW."

---
Ajit Doval - “So if they (the terrorists) have a budget of 1200 Crores and we match it with 1800 Crores, they are all on our side.”

---

"ISLAMABAD/PESHAWAR The arrested commanders of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan have confessed that secret departments of India, including RAW, and Afghanistan have been providing them weapons and funds to fight against the Pakistan Army."

http://www.dawn.com/news/959230/india-afghanistan-supporting-militants-in-pakistan

---
In a startling admission, former chief of India's premier intelligence agency Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) Amarjit Singh Dulat said Indian intelligence agencies over the years often paid militants and separatists along with mainstream politicians and political parties in India-held Kashmir to compete for influence with Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

In an interview with NDTV's high-profile TV anchor Barkha Dutt ahead of the launch of his book, 'Kashmir: The Vajpayee Years', Dulat asked: "So what's wrong? What is there to be so shocked or scandalised by. It's done the world over."

---

"Before writing and promoting an anti-Pakistan book in India, American analyst and author Christine Fair said this in 2009: "Having visited the Indian mission in Zahedan, Iran, I can assure you they are not issuing visas as the main activity! Moreover, India has run operations from its mission in Mazar (through which it supported the Northern Alliance) and is likely doing so from the other consulates it has reopened in Jalalabad and Qandahar along the border. Indian officials have told me privately that they are pumping money into Baluchistan"

---

Indian Spy Kulbhushan Yadav : "
"These activities have been of anti-national or terrorist nature which resulted in the killing and wounding of Pakistani citizens."

--

I'm not getting into detail. Most of the terrorist attacks in Pakistan are from terrorists in Afghanistan - and funded, controlled by RAW

----

Second in Command of TTP, Latif Ullah Mehsud speaks out.
"India and Afghanistan both work against Pakistan"

 

[RedTiger]

Taliban that Pakistan supposedly controls are attacking Pakistan. That isn't illogical?



Where?



Saulat Mirza - a criminal hanged to death this year in Pakistan: "According to the JIT report obtained by Geo News, Mirza said funding to MQM came from RAW."

---
Ajit Doval - “So if they (the terrorists) have a budget of 1200 Crores and we match it with 1800 Crores, they are all on our side.”

---

"ISLAMABAD/PESHAWAR The arrested commanders of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan have confessed that secret departments of India, including RAW, and Afghanistan have been providing them weapons and funds to fight against the Pakistan Army."

http://www.dawn.com/news/959230/india-afghanistan-supporting-militants-in-pakistan

---
In a startling admission, former chief of India's premier intelligence agency Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) Amarjit Singh Dulat said Indian intelligence agencies over the years often paid militants and separatists along with mainstream politicians and political parties in India-held Kashmir to compete for influence with Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

In an interview with NDTV's high-profile TV anchor Barkha Dutt ahead of the launch of his book, 'Kashmir: The Vajpayee Years', Dulat asked: "So what's wrong? What is there to be so shocked or scandalised by. It's done the world over."

---

"Before writing and promoting an anti-Pakistan book in India, American analyst and author Christine Fair said this in 2009: "Having visited the Indian mission in Zahedan, Iran, I can assure you they are not issuing visas as the main activity! Moreover, India has run operations from its mission in Mazar (through which it supported the Northern Alliance) and is likely doing so from the other consulates it has reopened in Jalalabad and Qandahar along the border. Indian officials have told me privately that they are pumping money into Baluchistan"

---

Indian Spy Kulbhushan Yadav : "
"These activities have been of anti-national or terrorist nature which resulted in the killing and wounding of Pakistani citizens."

--

I'm not getting into detail. Most of the terrorist attacks in Pakistan are from terrorists in Afghanistan - and funded, controlled by RAW

----

Second in Command of TTP, Latif Ullah Mehsud speaks out.
"India and Afghanistan both work against Pakistan"

None of this is surprising.

 

[Stanzin Lama]

One hopes that these issues will be addressed now that the violence has decreased. The Supreme Court of India has been petitioned on the matter and I hope that things change. I also blame the media in that the only time the rest of India hears about Kashmir is when there's any sort of violence.

Since this is a thread about Kashmir, this part is not true at all. It's just not being reported is all.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I swear you have the need to argue or oppose any point anyone makes. If you can't see the immaturity of these posts I can't help you.

I can see the immaturity of your posts which is why I'm pointing it out. 40 odd per cent of America seemingly wants to be led by a racist sexist loon. Enough of them happily let bush commit atrocities globally without blinking an eye because of the emotional issue of 9/11. The point is not that America is racist or loves killing people at the drop of a hat. But that even America is a shining example that if you pull the emotional strings of the general population on topics they care about, it brings out the cnuts in them. So the whole "I've never seen such fools from major countries.." argument is quite misplaced because in essense it's pretty common human tendancy when it comes to deep rooted emotional issues.

 

[shamans]

I can see the immaturity of your posts which is why I'm pointing it out. 40 odd per cent of America seemingly wants to be led by a racist sexist loon. Enough of them happily let bush commit atrocities globally without blinking an eye because of the emotional issue of 9/11. The point is not that America is racist or loves killing people at the drop of a hat. But that even America is a shining example that if you pull the emotional strings of the general population on topics they care about, it brings out the cnuts in them. So the whole "I've never seen such fools from major countries.." argument is quite misplaced because in essense it's pretty common human tendancy when it comes to deep rooted emotional issues.

You're just arguing for the sake of arguing. I really haven't seen such fools from major country that post on social media and yes America's racism factor is also probably pretty high. You're just proving my point.

 

[redindian1987]

I'm afraid your evidence is based on hearsay or the media.

Am i I supposed to be an ITK with access to clandestine operations?

Since this is a thread about Kashmir, this part is not true at all. It's just not being reported is all.

What is not being reported? Curfew has been lifted from most parts of Kashmir.

 

[kps88]

It goes on and on. It's been a conflict of decades. If you think there is a "good" side to this then your head is buried deep in propaganda.

There's decades worth of hurt and injustice felt by both sides, and then you wonder why they don't just talk it out and settle the issue? No chance of any talks in the current environment, not that they would make any difference. India could gift the whole of Kashmir to Pakistan tomorrow and it still won't solve anything. There would still be a portion of the Kashmiri population that are unhappy and Pakistan still won't be able to rid its backyard of terrorists.

 

[KM]

I'm afraid your evidence is based on hearsay or the media.

Oh alright as compared to your evidence which is based upon?

A normal man bases his evidence upon media and hearsay when it comes to this, there's no other way to know the truth.

 

[Stanzin Lama]

What is not being reported? Curfew has been lifted from most parts of Kashmir.

Because I see things like these which say otherwise:
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/...ontinue-to-occupy-kashmir-schools/229734.html

http://www.kashmirlife.net/day84-bu...s-of-horses-are-war-crimes-says-kcsds-119344/

It's 86 days now.

 

[2mufc0]

India Kashmir strike: The view from Pakistan

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-37518200

 

[redindian1987]

Because I see things like these which say otherwise:
http://www.greaterkashmir.com/news/...ontinue-to-occupy-kashmir-schools/229734.html

http://www.kashmirlife.net/day84-bu...s-of-horses-are-war-crimes-says-kcsds-119344/

It's 86 days now.

1. Forces occupying schools is a sad reality of most conflict ridden places.

2. Please note that I said that the violence has decreased, not stopped. While the protests have gone on for 86 days it's not as widespread as it was say 10-15 says ago.

 

[shamans]

There's decades worth of hurt and injustice felt by both sides, and then you wonder why they don't just talk it out and settle the issue? No chance of any talks in the current environment, not that they would make any difference. India could gift the whole of Kashmir to Pakistan tomorrow and it still won't solve anything. There would still be a portion of the Kashmiri population that are unhappy and Pakistan still won't be able to rid its backyard of terrorists.

You underestimate the power of Diplomacy. It can happen. You just need very capable diplomats on both sides of the border.

Oh alright as compared to your evidence which is based upon?

A normal man bases his evidence upon media and hearsay when it comes to this, there's no other way to know the truth.

Upon actual facts ant not journalists/celebrities giving opinions.

 

[prath92]

You underestimate the power of Diplomacy. It can happen. You just need very capable diplomats on both sides of the border.

It doesn't happen anywhere else. Israel and Palestine for instance?

The thing is Pakistan has instigated 2 separate wars in relation to Kashmir. One in 1965 and one recently in 1999. India has very rarely done something to provoke Pakistan (maybe Siachen though unlike Kargil, that was unoccupied area) for a long time. And for the parliament attacks in 2001 and taj hotel attacks in 2008, there were actual Pakistani backing for the same

As for the claims that both countries are almost the same, that's laughable a study in 2008 by an brookings institution, an American institution found that Pakistan and Iran were the most active sponsors of terrorism

So calling India and Pakistan equally responsible is a bit laughable really. Not to say India does nothing but it's immaterial in comparison to other countries.

I have great respect for Pakistani people though as living in the Middle East, I have interacted with many of them, but their political climate is crazy.

 

[shamans]

It doesn't happen anywhere else. Israel and Palestine for instance?

The thing is Pakistan has instigated 2 separate wars in relation to Kashmir. One in 1965 and one recently in 1999. India has very rarely done something to provoke Pakistan (maybe Siachen though unlike Kargil, that was unoccupied area) for a long time. And for the parliament attacks in 2001 and taj hotel attacks in 2008, there were actual Pakistani backing for the same

As for the claims that both countries are almost the same, that's laughable a study in 2008 by an brookings institution, an American institution found that Pakistan and Iran were the most active sponsors of terrorism

So calling India and Pakistan equally responsible is a bit laughable really. Not to say India does nothing but it's immaterial in comparison to other countries.

I have great respect for Pakistani people though as living in the Middle East, I have interacted with many of them, but their political climate is crazy.

Sorry but they are equally responsible. I believe you are Indian and so you can't view this from a neutrals perspective. I don't have the time to argue with you but I wish you and your people (and same goes for certain Pakistani people who blindly defend the nation) to see both sides in this conflict.

Anyway, I tried to be sane but it's apparent this thread has an Indian majority most of who are still buying their textbook versions of "Evil Pakistan" - I'll likely see the same on a forum dominated by Pakistanis.

 

[Moby]

Upon actual facts

What's your source?

 

[prath92]

Sorry but they are equally responsible. I believe you are Indian and so you can't view this from a neutrals perspective. I don't have the time to argue with you but I wish you and your people (and same goes for certain Pakistani people who blindly defend the nation) to see both sides in this conflict.

Anyway, I tried to be sane but it's apparent this thread has an Indian majority most of who are still buying their textbook versions of "Evil Pakistan" - I'll likely see the same on a forum dominated by Pakistanis.

It's not like I'm making stuff up. It's all facts from the public domain. And the institution I mentioned was voted the best think tank institution in USA for almost 10 years (I think it's still the holder of that position). I may not be neutral sure, but these are simple facts that can be checked online.

 

[fishfingers15]

Sorry but they are equally responsible. I believe you are Indian and so you can't view this from a neutrals perspective. I don't have the time to argue with you but I wish you and your people (and same goes for certain Pakistani people who blindly defend the nation) to see both sides in this conflict.

Anyway, I tried to be sane but it's apparent this thread has an Indian majority most of who are still buying their textbook versions of "Evil Pakistan" - I'll likely see the same on a forum dominated by Pakistanis.

Just out of curiosity, where do you stand in the scale of neutrality? Have some Indian/Pakistani heritage or you are approaching it from a completely neutral angle?

 

[Moby]

FFS.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[anant]

Upon actual facts ant not journalists/celebrities giving opinions.

And where do you get that info from? People's accounts? And you think those won't be biased in favour or against your views?
It's laughable really that you generalize the opinion of journos as biased. Indian and Pak media will be biased, but even BBC, and the likes have acknowledged that the attack was from Pakistani militants. As far as State sponsored terrorism is concerned, no reliable media house has published something of that sort as their view.
And as far as goodness of the 2 countries is concerned. India isn't a saint but compared to Pakistan it is easily one. Something like Hillary Clinton when compared to Trump

 

[Varun]

FFS.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Just saw this on the news. Its still going on. Grenades being used too apparently, lets hope there arent heavy casualties.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Not good, this. Tensions will escalate heavily, especially if this incident isn't over quickly

 

[The Man Himself]

Reports of 2 terrorists being shot dead. Pak army simultaneously violated ceasefire in Akhnoor sector.

 

[redindian1987]

Upon actual facts ant not journalists/celebrities giving opinions.

These purveyors of "facts", do they come to you exclusively?

As for your pious invocations of the power of diplomacy, powerful stuff. Just wondering though, in the last five years alone, why didn't the west: those people with superior cognitive abilities unlike the emotional Indians, why didn't they use diplomacy to solve Libya/Syria/Iraq/Crimea/Palestine or any of the conflicts not involving Indians and Pakistanis?

 

[snk123]

Pak army simultaneously violated ceasefire in Akhnoor sector.

What is the criteria to judge who violated ceasefire? I mean isn't it obvious India is going to say Pakistan and Pakistan will say it was India?

 

[VidaRed]

These purveyors of "facts", do they come to you exclusively?

As for your pious invocations of the power of diplomacy, powerful stuff. Just wondering though, in the last five years alone, why didn't the west: those people with superior cognitive abilities unlike the emotional Indians, why didn't they use diplomacy to solve Libya/Syria/Iraq/Crimea/Palestine or any of the conflicts not involving Indians and Pakistanis?

Jiski Lathi Uski Bhains!

In short all this freedom and democracy chants by the west is bunch of bs.

 

[VidaRed]

What is the criteria to judge who violated ceasefire? I mean isn't it obvious India is going to say Pakistan and Pakistan will say it was India?

Where were osama and mullah omar found ?

 

[snk123]

And as far as goodness of the 2 countries is concerned. India isn't a saint but compared to Pakistan it is easily one. Something like Hillary Clinton when compared to Trump

Considerably more people have died in Pakistan due to terrorism than in India. In fact, the number of attacks on Indian soil from terrorists are minuscule compared to Pak.

So I would definitely label Pakistan a saint compared to India.

 

[snk123]

Where were osama and mullah omar found ?

Don't know how that answers my question. Osama and Mullah Omar used to violate LOC ceasefire?

 

[RedTiger]

Where were osama and mullah omar found ?

How in any way is your post an answer to snk123's question asking "What is the criteria to judge who violated ceasefire" ?

 

[VidaRed]

Don't know how that answers my question. Osama and Mullah Omar used to violate LOC ceasefire?

How in any way is your post an answer to snk123's question asking "What is the criteria to judge who violated ceasefire" ?

Two states have two contradictory claims. The question that naturally arises is whom to believe. The answer to that question is directly related to the question i raised.

Would the word of a liar carry any weight ?

 

[VidaRed]

You are right. It's not to the extent of ISI/Pakistani Army - it's more than that.
India has far more resources and money than Pakistan and here is how your current national security advisor, Ajit Doval explains the simple math.

“So if they (the terrorists) have a budget of 1200 Crores and we match it with 1800 Crores, they are all on our side.” 4:30 onwards


Again, my point is to help people realize that there are two sides of the coin. But again, I'm not keeping my hopes up.

Lets have a look at what the former head of isi has to say


Lt.General Asad Durrani (retd), the former head of Pakistan’s ISI intelligence agency, has told Al Jazeera’s Head to Head that Pakistan most likely sheltered Osama Bin Laden in the years leading up to the US raid in Abbottabad in May 2011.

He doubts the ISI’s official line that it had been unaware of Bin Laden’s whereabouts until his death, and implied that the Pakistan would have only exchanged knowledge of his location in a quid pro quo deal.

General Durrani was Director-General of the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) from 1990-1992, Ambassador to Germany from 1994–1997, and Ambassador to Saudi Arabia from 2000–2002. These comments came in the recording of Head to Head, Al Jazeera’s premier interview programme, which is hosted by Mehdi Hasan and filmed in front of an audience at the Oxford Union. This episode forms part of the brand new series of the show, which will air in April on Al Jazeera English.

General Durrani told Hasan:

“I cannot say exactly what happened but my assessment […] was it is quite possible that they [the ISI] did not know but it was more probable that they did. And the idea was that at the right time, his location would be revealed. And the right time would have been, when you can get the necessary quid pro quo - if you have someone like Osama bin Laden, you are not going to simply hand him over to the United States.

He asserted that Bin Laden was, in his opinion, handed over in exchange for an agreement on “how to bring the Afghan problem to an end”. Asked by Hasan whether Bin Laden’s compound was an ISI safe house, Durrani responded:

“If ISI was doing that, than I would say they were doing a good job. And if they revealed his location, they again probably did what was required to be done.”

Officially, the ISI maintains that it did not harbour Bin Laden and played no part in the raid in 2011. However, commentators have questioned how Bin Laden could have eluded the intelligence agency in the years leading up to his discovery, given the location of Bin Laden’s compound in the garrison town of Abbottabad. The Abbottabad Commission, which was set up by the Pakistani government to investigate the circumstances surrounding the raid, charged the military and the government with “gross incompetence” leading to “collective failures” that enabled Bin Laden to reside in Pakistan unnoticed, and that failed to detect the US mission in May 2011.

General Durrani also told Hasan:

“The admission of incompetence was probably done on political reasons… As far as the people of Pakistan were concerned, it was going to be very uncomfortable for them that their government, you know, is in cahoots now with the United States and gets hold of Osama bin Laden,” adding that Bin Laden “was an admired figure in Pakistan”.

 

[VidaRed]

A few more remarks by the head of the isi

Steve, it is very hard for me to overstate to you the enthusiasm for which Pakistan's generals have for the Taliban.

Soon thereafter the ISI was cleansed of the old guard, most of them ostensibly for their infatuation with the "Jihadists" in Afghanistan and Kashmir. These purges must have served a few careers but when it came to taking decisions and making policies, the new guard had no choice but to put its shoulder behind the Taliban bandwagon.

Initially the Americans and the Saudis too had wooed Mullah Omar, though for a different reason: their interest in a pipeline that was to pass through territories under the Taliban control. If Pakistan should have ceased all support when this militant regime rejected its advice -- on accommodating the Northern Alliance or sparing the Bamyan Statues, for example -- remains a moot point.

I do not know what all the ISI knew about Bin Laden's whereabouts before he was reportedly killed, or when the Pakistani leadership was informed about the US operation on that fateful night. But the fact that we denied all knowledge or cooperation -- even though the military and the police cordons were in place at the time of the raid, our helicopters were hovering over the area, and the Army Chief was in his command post at midnight -- explains the Country's dilemma.

If its leadership was to choose between inability to defend national borders and complicity with the US to hunt down one person who defied the mightiest of the worldly powers, it would rather concede incompetence.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/07/pakistans-isi-from-the-inside/242471/

 

[anant]

Considerably more people have died in Pakistan due to terrorism than in India. In fact, the number of attacks on Indian soil from terrorists are minuscule compared to Pak.

So I would definitely label Pakistan a saint compared to India.

You guys have terrorists within your borders, that's a fact. So, obviously Pakistan will have casualties. India has had casualties because of those same terrorists.
If you pet a snake and get bitten, you can't say you have been wronged.

 

[RedDevil@84]

You guys have terrorists within your borders, that's a fact. So, obviously Pakistan will have casualties. India has had casualties because of those same terrorists.
If you pet a snake and get bitten, you can't say you have been wronged.

The counter to this is pretty simple. You have been brainwashed to believe that Pak has pet snakes for years. When the "fact" is India was the one doing so.
If that is the line of argument, it is pretty pointless to even have a discussion.

 

[kps88]

Considerably more people have died in Pakistan due to terrorism than in India. In fact, the number of attacks on Indian soil from terrorists are minuscule compared to Pak.

Yeah that sucks. What are they doing about it? How about ridding their own backyard of terrorists before focusing on India? They've failed as a country to control homegrown terrorism due to a variety of reasons (some self inflicted) and are now paying the price along with their neighbors.

 

[berbatrick]

The counter to this is pretty simple. You have been brainwashed to believe that Pak has pet snakes for years. When the "fact" is India was the one doing so.
If that is the line of argument, it is pretty pointless to even have a discussion.

Believe me, I'm not a blind patriot. On most topics of Indian politics my positions are "anti-national" or "commie traitor." India has a long history of playing one faction against the other when in a conflict with extremists. The most infamous example being Bhindranwale in Punjab. There were many factions within the Sikh movement but the government promoted the most radical, thinking that they would weaken the more popular factions and could then be remote controlled. This gamble eventually led to the army storming the holiest site of the Sikhs and then the murder of the PM. We have done similar with multiple insurgencies in the North East, always playing one faction against the other to the point that one of the factions pretty much has the state's blessing.

Our terrible handling of Kashmir has seen a leftist and mostly non-religious movement of the 1950s being repressed for decades and eventually replaced by violent Jihadis by the 90s (a parallel with Hamas replacing Fatah as the legitimate voice).
It makes perfect sense that we would thus be involved with militants within Pakistan, and with the capture of spies in Baluchistan there's not much to deny.

Now, having got my liberal self-hate out of the way...

The problem is false equivalence.
"You have been brainwashed to believe that Pak has pet snakes for years"
I'm afraid this is just publicly declared policy: "death by a thousand cuts". It's public knowledge about the ISI-CIA-Taliban link, an operation of collaboration with terrorists across borders on a scale that India AFAIK hasn't come close to matching. OBL was in Abbottabad, and leaders of terrorist organisations which strike in India including Kashmir move around openly today in Pakistan.

The thread title is Kashmir. Kashmiris have been caught between a game between 2 powers since 1948 when the Pakistan government decided to back an invasion into Kashmir and the Indian govt decided not to hold the promised referendum. The conflict must be prolonged, it is the reason for the existence of the Pakistan army and half the reason for the Indian army (the other half is the Chinese border). Almost every single statement made by either side, expressing concern for human rights, demanding dialogue but with certain conditions, promising armed liberation, is cynical propaganda for the audience at home.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Believe me, I'm not a blind patriot. On most topics of Indian politics my positions are "anti-national" or "commie traitor." India has a long history of playing one faction against the other when in a conflict with extremists. The most infamous example being Bhindranwale in Punjab. There were many factions within the Sikh movement but the government promoted the most radical, thinking that they would weaken the more popular factions and could then be remote controlled. This gamble eventually led to the army storming the holiest site of the Sikhs and then the murder of the PM. We have done similar with multiple insurgencies in the North East, always playing one faction against the other to the point that one of the factions pretty much has the state's blessing.

Our terrible handling of Kashmir has seen a leftist and mostly non-religious movement of the 1950s being repressed for decades and eventually replaced by violent Jihadis by the 90s (a parallel with Hamas replacing Fatah as the legitimate voice).
It makes perfect sense that we would thus be involved with militants within Pakistan, and with the capture of spies in Baluchistan there's not much to deny.

Now, having got my liberal self-hate out of the way...

The problem is false equivalence.
"You have been brainwashed to believe that Pak has pet snakes for years"
I'm afraid this is just publicly declared policy: "death by a thousand cuts". It's public knowledge about the ISI-CIA-Taliban link, an operation of collaboration with terrorists across borders on a scale that India AFAIK hasn't come close to matching. OBL was in Abbottabad, and leaders of terrorist organisations which operate within Kashmir move around openly today in Pakistan.

The thread title is Kashmir. Kashmiris have been caught between a game between 2 powers since 1948 when the Pakistan government decided to back an invasion into Kashmir and the Indian govt decided not to hold the promised referendum. The conflict must be prolonged, it is the reason for the existence of the Pakistan army and half the reason for the Indian army (the other half is the Chinese border). Almost every single statement made by either side, expressing concern for human rights, demanding dialogue but with certain conditions, promising armed liberation, is cynical propaganda for the audience at home.

What Micheal Crichton puts in the book "State of Fear"
The easiest way to control the masses is to put them perennially in a state of fear, a fear that something bad is upon them and aligning with the government is the only way of protection. USA even has a fancy color coded thing for threat level.

 

[Stanzin Lama]

The thread title is Kashmir. Kashmiris have been caught between a game between 2 powers since 1948 when the Pakistan government decided to back an invasion into Kashmir and the Indian govt decided not to hold the promised referendum. The conflict must be prolonged, it is the reason for the existence of the Pakistan army and half the reason for the Indian army (the other half is the Chinese border). Almost every single statement made by either side, expressing concern for human rights, demanding dialogue but with certain conditions, promising armed liberation, is cynical propaganda for the audience at home.

This is the part that really resonates with me. I have Kashmiri friends at the moment who are posting deaths and injuries every day. Young people getting killed, families losing their children, activists being put in jail and newspapers being shut down. All this breeds new generation of hatred and dissatisfaction in the region, and yet somehow the narrative of their fight has been totally lost against the intrusion of a foreign enemy who are much easier to hate and denigrate. The movement has now lost its credibility and momentum in the mainstream media and yet people there suffer day by day with no solution in sight.

 

[RedDevil@84]

This is the part that really resonates with me. I have Kashmiri friends at the moment who are posting deaths and injuries every day. Young people getting killed, families losing their children, activists being put in jail and newspapers being shut down. All this breeds new generation of hatred and dissatisfaction in the region, and yet somehow the narrative of their fight has been totally lost against the intrusion of a foreign enemy who are much easier to hate and denigrate. The movement has now lost its credibility and momentum in the mainstream media and yet people there suffer day by day with no solution in sight.

The worst part is that a good amount of people in other parts of the country are led to believe that the resistance is only from a bunch of India hating, Pak loving guys. Anyone even saying that maybe Indian govt or army is not handling it correctly are accused of being anti-national and what not.