In the current political landscape, none of them.
Keir Starmer Labour Leader
- Thread starter Damien
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I get that, thanks for the answer. There should be one of course, maybe PR will solve it one day, if ever we get there.Keir Starmer accuses Stop the War coalition of siding with Nato’s enemies
Exclusive: Labour leader affirms support for transatlantic alliance and attacks organisation in which Jeremy Corbyn is leading figure
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ition-gives-help-to-authoritarians-like-putin
He's just so predictable in his views. Tory.
Exclusive: Labour leader affirms support for transatlantic alliance and attacks organisation in which Jeremy Corbyn is leading figure
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ition-gives-help-to-authoritarians-like-putin
He's just so predictable in his views. Tory.
Labour facing bankruptcy as biggest union donor Unite says it could pull remaining support
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...donations-starmer-sharon-graham-b2011988.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...donations-starmer-sharon-graham-b2011988.html
His statements on this matter are interesting. Completely ignoring the position "Stop the War" have taken which is diplomatic solution (as advocated by Germany and France) and directly conflates anti-war with anti-West, including alluding to Stalin. This feels very managed to show that he isn't weak in comparison to BJ's current primary distraction strategy and continues to distance himself utterly from the ideological left. Labour's electoral strategy: we are the centre, the establishment, the Tories but not corrupt. It may well work.
If only we had PR...
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"Zero tolerance for racism" right? We'll have to see.
There has to be an investigation of course but should it back up the accusations then yes 100% he should have the whip removed
It’s actually a fairly sound plan. The problem is he’s just a bit too uncharismatic. His best hope is that the public get so sick of Johnson’s animated waffle that a monotone PM becomes somewhat appealing
And then Sunak will take over...
And then Starmer's lack of inspiration, his inability to show vision and passion for any real ideas will limit what Labour can achieve.
PR would defo be better.
But Starmer has done to his own party everything he is claiming as a USP against Boris. Lied, untrustworthy, typical deceptive poltician with an agenda.
There’s nothing actually wrong with a Labour leader trying to articulate a nuanced reason why a liberal society should oppose the overreach of strong men dictators in aggressor states… Sometimes that’s important to do, and this might be one of those times (though I personally can’t speak to that)…. The problem, as with all of the messaging from this incarnation of Labour, is that the nuance is entirely weighted towards “the right wing case is completely right, actually, and any scent of hesitancy* from the left side who voted for me and still comprise a lot of my party’s base is awful and stupid and I don’t care if I dissavow it”…. Which is possibly as unnuanced as humanly possible. I mean there was no reason to go after Stop The War, who are an utter irrelevance to vote winning, other than to tip cap to the in-party factional elements who hate them… but then Starmer’s Labour only cares about appealing to the two demographics - ‘Embarassed Tories who’d like to pretend they aren’t racist’ and ‘90s liberals who’d like to pretend they aren’t selfish… and also a bit racist’… All backed by the Mandlesonian ideal that no one else has anywhere to go.
And hey, maybe that works. I’m happy to nod disagreeably until we see where that leads. I’m one of the utilitarian idiots that will always vote the way they want. I just won’t complain if it doesn’t … or if it briefly does, but then has embarrassing Cleggian consequences down the road
* specifically regarding War here, of course… not opposition to slow Covid sanctions, obvious real time government cronyism or incoming anti-protest bills, etc.
And hey, maybe that works. I’m happy to nod disagreeably until we see where that leads. I’m one of the utilitarian idiots that will always vote the way they want. I just won’t complain if it doesn’t … or if it briefly does, but then has embarrassing Cleggian consequences down the road
* specifically regarding War here, of course… not opposition to slow Covid sanctions, obvious real time government cronyism or incoming anti-protest bills, etc.
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The substance of each these two stances is, as Mockney says above, "I am Blair" (backed by Mandleson). The same positioning to distance himself from the unions which Blair did in the 90s and the same positioning as neoliberal jingoist presented as "strong". Each is entirely purposed to distance himself from the left of the party with whose support he was elected and which section he has betrayed at every turn since getting in. You could almost not care if Labour were offering anything substantially different from the Tories, but minus blatant corruption, there seems to be no distinction.
And this brings us back to where we were pre-Corbyn. What is the actual point of Labour when its opposition is almost nonexistent in matters of policy? It's not a substantial opposition in terms of social organization which makes it surplus to requirements unless they manage a radical manifesto which would be entirely contrary to everything they've done since Starmer's election. (This will lead to the inevitable, "what's the point of a Labour that won't be elected" stream of comments, and, in answer, not a lot but arguably more useful than an elected Labour that does not differentiate between an elected Conservative government. Opposition actually matters).
Too many full stops...
That’s also very plausible. I’ve barely heard his name the past few weeks when it’s all been going tits up on his neighbour’s doorstep…..
In the context of Labour reaffirming it's commitment to NATO and it's opposition to strongmen dictators and autocrats I think it was almost necessary to go after STW, if only because two of the prominent members of STW are the former Labour leader and Shadow Home Secretary. He needs to disassociate his party from these viewpoints very publicly in order to break the link in peoples minds that Labour are opposed to NATO, created due to the previous leaders comments and history. It's political, it's putting the boot in a bit, but it's something he had to do as I think Corbyn's foreign policy was poison to a lot of potential voters even if they agreed on many domestic issues.
Yeah, I think that if the parties pull down Johnson, Sunak will be too close to not be stained. Also, I don't doubt that his skin colour will put off some of the members, I'm sure they're aware of the underlying racism in parts of the electorate.
Yeah it's the racism in the electorate that's the problem, not in the Tory party membership.
Correct. I'm quite shocked by the lack of nuance but you're right nonetheless.
STWC lost a lot of credibility when the one war they were open-minded about was with Israel. As someone who opposed the Iraq and Afghanistan war I don't think they apply the same standards they do to the west to others. Shouldn't Russia be the ones condemned for warmongering.
It scares me to death that the country may one day be run by Corbyn or his clones. We will be sitting ducks for his mates in Russia. The Socialist model is old hat and dead except in Russia, where the few have all the wealth and ditto China which makes a mockery of the ‘For the many, not the few’ mantra used by Labour. The Tories are a shambles but I would be more comfortable having some University educated folk running the country than a few lefty protesters with an NVQ in social care. Such a pity that politics gets in the way.
I don't think you meant the word socialist and if you did then you don't know what it means.
What do you mean by they open minded about war with Israel?
Russia is among the least socialist countries on the planet. Authoritarian/right-wing, but not in any sense socialist. In fact, Lloyds Bank ranks them as better to do business with than Germany on several metrics linked to central control of state banking. Which means the EU is generally more socialist than Russia.
what makes you think there are no university educated lefties in politics?Also, do you not think it's important to have a mixture of different people making decisions in government? Some highly educated, some less so, some science, some arts, some experienced in business, others experienced in social care etc? End of the day government has to make decisions about all kinds of different things, not just about e.g. economics.
Around 2014 they published an article from an American professor giving analysis on the Middle East crisis but editorialised it by giving the headline that the only way to get peace in the region is a war with Israel. The professor did not come up with that headline. So that was clearly the view of the people at STWC. The article was pulled from the site when that information came out.
I don't even know where to start with this post. You'd rather have University educated folk (no idea why you think only Tories are University educated but nonetheless) who are a shambles because Russia and China are syphoning all the wealth to the few and Corbyn and his clones would ape that model because they're all socialist (even though Corbyn et al have no similarity to China and Russia's policies but anyway) despite the fact the Tories actively syphoning all the wealth to the few and being financially in cahoots with both Russia and China?
This is a parody, right?
Interesting. Tracking it down. Looks like it's a Richard Falk article.
Is this satire?
I was expecting this quote to jump to 2017 or something, not to half way up this page
No, it's ......it's......just.......bollocks.
Yet you are not scared of "Boris" and his Russian connections which he buried by hiding the Russian report into said connections just before the last election.
Your post is the absolute definition of idiocy.
Has to be.This is a parody, right?
Politics moved forward between 2015 - 2019 but with the labour left defeat everyone is now stuck in time arguing over the past. It’s amazingly cool and not at all completely alienating.I was expecting this quote to jump to 2017 or something, not to half way up this page
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Not well versed with the UK politics but isn't the right now soft on Russia as much as the socialists as the trend in US is proving to be?
EDIT : Ok, maybe it's a parody post.
Russia is among the least socialist countries in the world? I think you need a more modern history book.
It really seems like it, but judging by a few previous posts of his in the CE, it might not be. He's not a super prolific CE poster though, so he might be doing it for all of them.