Keir Starmer Labour Leader

[Maticmaker]

Why would you assume I thought that?

There were some socialist arguments for brexit too. But they got totally drowned out by the media coverage and brexit campaign which was more far right wing.

Regardless, that general election was unique in that is was heavily influenced by the uncertain Brexit situation and Brexit policy.

Sorry if I picked upon the wrong vibe.

Yes of course Brexit had an influence on the GE, but with a number of Labour supporters who did vote for Brexit, its been my experience it was more to do with Labours' ignoring of its heartlands for years, Brexit was the last straw. Boris's 'leveling up' mantra was what swayed it for many, who I suspect held their noses when they voted.

Certainly in my (growing increasingly smaller) circle of friends, many who like me had left Labour years ago because of its fixation on inner cities/displaying its international socialist credentials, its was well... 'OK lets see if the Tories really can/will do what Labour should have been doing for years'. I think many now know the answer to that, of course Covid and the war in the Ukraine will do the 'heavy lifting' in terms of the excuses to be trotted out.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Sweet Square]

 

[UweBein]

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From Keir's playbook: How do you stab your voters in the back?

 

[Mart1974]

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Starmer is damned either way here. If he supports 19% the economists and business leaders will slate him, if he takes the reasonable view that 19% is too much and we should negotiate he is seen as selling out the left. I am sure he is looking for a good compromise that everyone can be happy with.

 

[Maticmaker]

Starmer is damned either way here. If he supports 19% the economists and business leaders will slate him, if he takes the reasonable view that 19% is too much and we should negotiate he is seen as selling out the left. I am sure he is looking for a good compromise that everyone can be happy with.

I agree, Starmer is looking for compromise, but for many public service employees, especially in the NHS, they are not in the mood for compromise, they have been doing that for the last 10-12 years. Covid demonstrated to the nation the value of many public servants, their commitment and their endeavours (e.g. working daily with the risk of contamination, then having to go home to their families each night, adding additional risk) the Union leaders know they need to draw on the (still) massive public empathy right now, not try to wait for a Labour Government.

Equally there are many people whilst appreciating the plight of public servants in the high risk/low wage occupations, are also suffering and for many, e.g. with mortgages or on benefits etc. there is some respite, but it wont last long unless inflation is reigned in. We have already seen with the difficulties for UK Governments of managing outside influences, especially in the money markets.

Starmer has to be very careful what he says about what a future Labour Government might do, but surely there is no public servant who thinks they will get a better deal from the Tories, than they will from Labour? However they cannot wait that long. The strikes will continue and it will be 'tears before bedtime'... unfortunately

 

[VP89]

From Keir's playbook: How do you stab your voters in the back?

You're right he should back the rise. What's the worst that can happen right?

 

[Mart1974]

You're right he should back the rise. What's the worst that can happen right?

He backs the rise and the Tories/RWM make political capital out of Starmer's economic prudence?

 

[Sweet Square]

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[UweBein]

He backs the rise and the Tories/RWM make political capital out of Starmer's economic prudence?

He should point out, it's 12 years of Tory rule and 12 years of NHS mismanagement. The Tories have created this mess and they do need to deal with it.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Frosty]

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I would like the person who is making noise in the flat above to be hanged. Is that how it will work?

 

[Sweet Square]

I would like the person who is making noise in the flat above to be hanged. Is that how it will work

Tbh Labour would bring back hanging if it meant winning votes in Redcar.

 

[Sweet Square]

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[Sweet Square]

Genuinely wtf are people even voting for here ?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

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Fecking brilliant.

David Cameron policies delivered by Labour. Inspiring.

 

[Coxy]

Fecking brilliant.

David Cameron policies delivered by Labour. Inspiring.

So disappointing - when Starmer announced the private energy company etc - was really happy. He should be going in hard about the NHS - and how only Labour can save it etc etc - but instead he announces this? ....

 

[CassiusClaymore]

feckin Tory

 

[Sweet Square]

What are the chances they run to the right of the tory party on economics ?

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[Mart1974]

What are the chances they run to the right of the tory party on economics ?

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Very little chance. I think this has been explained before but Labour cannot be seen in opposition to be favouring massive spending on public services. It is too easy for the Tories and the right wing press to attack them. I am sure they will focus money in the right places.

 

[Sweet Square]

Very little chance. I think this has been explained before but Labour cannot be seen in opposition to be favouring massive spending on public services. It is too easy for the Tories and the right wing press to attack them. I am sure they will focus money in the right places.

 

[Frosty]

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You doubt the plans of these two?

 

[Sweet Square]

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You doubt the plans of these two?

What are they holding ? Looks like something from ghostbusters or laser quest.

 

[Mart1974]

Do you prefer the Tories?

 

[Sweet Square]

Do you prefer the Tories?

I'd take another 4 years of the tories over Starmer winning tbh(And currently I'm poor as piss), if it meant the labour membership and trade unions finally deciding the party needs to be radical transformed(Which I'm very doubtful would happen, instead both would pick Starmer with a northern accent - Andy Burnham).

Labour governments have a tendency to weaken the left, protest movements and worker struggles(It's also a very bad thing for the potential of socialism, if a ''workers'' party gets into power and then start attacking workers)

 

[Mart1974]

I'd take another 4 years of the tories over Starmer winning tbh(And currently I'm poor as piss), if it meant the labour membership and trade unions finally deciding the party needs to be radical transformed(Which I'm very doubtful would happen, instead both would pick Starmer with a northern accent - Andy Burnham).

Labour governments have a tendency to weaken the left, protest movements and worker struggles(It's also a very bad thing for the potential of socialism, if a ''workers'' party gets into power and then start attacking workers)

I think Labour will support workers rights once they get in. 4 more years of the Tories is unpalatable.

 

[Sweet Square]

I think Labour will support workers rights once they get in. 4 more years of the Tories is unpalatable.

The leadership is literally telling the public it's not going to increase workers pay, state funding and keep the private sector in the NHS. Fair enough if you want to believe the complete opposite but a lot of people thought Brexit and that red bus was going to fix our healthcare system. The reality was it didn't.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

I think Labour will support workers rights once they get in. 4 more years of the Tories is unpalatable.

Why?

 

[Buster15]

I'd take another 4 years of the tories over Starmer winning tbh(And currently I'm poor as piss), if it meant the labour membership and trade unions finally deciding the party needs to be radical transformed(Which I'm very doubtful would happen, instead both would pick Starmer with a northern accent - Andy Burnham).

Labour governments have a tendency to weaken the left, protest movements and worker struggles(It's also a very bad thing for the potential of socialism, if a ''workers'' party gets into power and then start attacking workers)

You obviously have forgotten the outcome of the last election...

 

[Sweet Square]

You obviously have forgotten the outcome of the last election...

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I think Labour will support workers rights once they get in. 4 more years of the Tories is unpalatable.

Genuinely could not stomach 5 more years of the Tories and I don't think the country could either.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

You obviously have forgotten the outcome of the last election...

And this is a defence of Starmer's anti-Union, pro-NHS privitisation, pro-austerity, make Brexit work, party of Law and Order shit in what way?
If your answer is that this is needed to win an election then, frankly, what's the fecking point? It's keeping the trajectory going for a few years until our feudal Lords get back into power.
Do you really think he'll run on these pledges to win and then incrementally shift direction? 'Cos he won't.
A slightly better and more competent version of the Tories is now the summit of our ambitions.
Oh, Icarus, fly not too close to the Sun, lest your waxen wings melt.

 

[crossy1686]

Even if Labour can't do the exact opposite from what the Tories have done, or even if they have to continue down this path for a while, at least you'll be treated like a human for a while and not with utter discontent for breathing.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Even if Labour can't do the exact opposite from what the Tories have done, or even if they have to continue down this path for a while, at least you'll be treated like a human for a while and not with utter discontent for breathing.

Yeah this is about as high as my hope goes.

 

[Sweet Square]

A slightly better and more competent version of the Tories is now the summit of our ambitions.

Yeah we are closer to David Cameron than even Ed Miliband.

Even if Labour can't do the exact opposite from what the Tories have done, or even if they have to continue down this path for a while, at least you'll be treated like a human for a while and not with utter discontent for breathing.

 

[Vidyoyo]

On the plus side, at least he got a seat

 

[Sweet Square]

On the plus side, at least he got a seat

I mean he could afford a one bed apartment in central London while working a standard office job. Not sure what he was sad about really.

 

[Cloudface]

And this is a defence of Starmer's anti-Union, pro-NHS privitisation, pro-austerity, make Brexit work, party of Law and Order shit in what way?
If your answer is that this is needed to win an election then, frankly, what's the fecking point? It's keeping the trajectory going for a few years until our feudal Lords get back into power.
Do you really think he'll run on these pledges to win and then incrementally shift direction? 'Cos he won't.
A slightly better and more competent version of the Tories is now the summit of our ambitions.
Oh, Icarus, fly not too close to the Sun, lest your waxen wings melt.

Why lie to make your point?

And Brexit has happened so what do you want exactly? To make it worse? Or do you think we can magic wand ourselves back into the EU?

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Buster15]

And this is a defence of Starmer's anti-Union, pro-NHS privitisation, pro-austerity, make Brexit work, party of Law and Order shit in what way?
If your answer is that this is needed to win an election then, frankly, what's the fecking point? It's keeping the trajectory going for a few years until our feudal Lords get back into power.
Do you really think he'll run on these pledges to win and then incrementally shift direction? 'Cos he won't.
A slightly better and more competent version of the Tories is now the summit of our ambitions.
Oh, Icarus, fly not too close to the Sun, lest your waxen wings melt.

I really don't recognise any of this.
And what is wrong with law and order. Do you want lawless and disorder.
He is not Anti Union.
And he is not advocating Austerity.
Where has he said he wants more NHS privatisation.