He’s a United fan too isn’t he?
Kieran McKenna | Close to signing long term deal to stay at Ipswich
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
He still spent the second most in the whole world only behind Chelsea?
This is isn't football manager, you can't always get whoever you want. He wanted FDJ but FDJ didn't want him. Tough luck. You still have to work with the second best in real life. Does he need couple of billion to spend and the best player in every position, just to deliver top 4 or what?
We shouldn't have signed Antony. Did you want him to veto Casemiro at the time?
no arguing there.
you're not appointing a 38-year-old up-and-coming manager as a short-term fix though. If you decide to go into that direction, it surely won't be more of the same, but the acceptance that there's some serious clearout and rebuilding coming over the next couple of seasons, no? If the club wants more of the same and keep papering over cracks, they'll probably just appoint somebody like Tuchel instead.
We were a steaming pile of shite when he walked in the door.
And you're taking the thread off topic. I'm just saying calling for one managers head while saying we need to give an unprovem coach long term backing is quite inconsistent.
We knew nobody was a short term fix two years ago.
This could belong to another thread, but yes. If it meant planning for someone like Rice. It was a desperate short term signing in order to make his reckless system work.
Why can’t we take a chance? Everyone you employ is a punt.
It was already off topic. I've personally been quite vocal that just "backing the manager" doesn't make any sense. You need to see some tangible improvements to be sure that you're heading in the right direction. You can't just give someone 5 years and hope it works out. You're as likely to get relegated as win a title.
The only difference between McKenna and previous managers, is that McKenna is likely to be a head coach only. He won't have as much sway over transfers as previous managers, the directors/scouts will pick the signings. So he will have less to get judged on. He won't be judged, like ETH constantly is, on signings such as Antony, Mount, Onana etc. If the team is playing well/ok but a new player is standing out as being shit, the blame will lie with the directors not the head coach.
Don’t think McKenna is best in class at the moment so Ineos would be going back on their word.
They didn't walk all over Ole. Actually, they arguably played their best football under him. Certainly more consistent anyway.
I also read something that said some of the players didn’t like his training methods and thought they suited academy football better.
Who is?
They respected him. He was a club legend
Not McKenna. Wouldn’t even come close. Maybe if INEOS said they’d like to create their own Fergie etc.
Great answer
Giving someone time doesn't mean giving them a blank cheque. They don't get a free pass to do anything & still be allowed to stay. In that 'time' you have to show tangible progress. Klopp was given time at Liverpool because he showed constant progress. Even when he wasn't getting the results it was pretty evident that a good style of play was being implemented and with the right pieces it'll come together. He didn't get 'time' because time heals everything.
The issue with ETH were multifold:
- Despite saying the right things about the type of player needed to succeed in this league his recruitment was shoddy. He bought players completely unsuited to the lesgue.
And yeah ouu recruitment has been pants the last decade or so, but that is why this guy wanted more say in it. So, he cannot be absolved of the blame in regards to that.
- In his two seasons he did not show that he had a handle on squad rotation. It is not a surprise to me that we had so many injuries this season, because he kept flogging the same players last season. A new player only came in the team when his regular has been run into the ground by him.
- Despite his tactics not working and our midfield remaining open, he persisted with it throughout this season. We suffered in 90% of the games this season because of that. It wasn't only the injuries but the whole set-up that was responsible for our terrible performances.
- His in game management was poor. Besides a handful of games, he never knew when to make the right changes. Again, his trust in the squad was minimal.
- ETH won't work out here became evident from the middle if last season. It's not just the result & performances this season.
If McKenna shows that same naivety and lack of understanding of the league & the team then he won't deserve 'time' either. However, even if he shows incremental progress, then he can have all the time in the world.
The issue with ETH were multifold:
- Despite saying the right things about the type of player needed to succeed in this league his recruitment was shoddy. He bought players completely unsuited to the lesgue.
And yeah ouu recruitment has been pants the last decade or so, but that is why this guy wanted more say in it. So, he cannot be absolved of the blame in regards to that.
- In his two seasons he did not show that he had a handle on squad rotation. It is not a surprise to me that we had so many injuries this season, because he kept flogging the same players last season. A new player only came in the team when his regular has been run into the ground by him.
- Despite his tactics not working and our midfield remaining open, he persisted with it throughout this season. We suffered in 90% of the games this season because of that. It wasn't only the injuries but the whole set-up that was responsible for our terrible performances.
- His in game management was poor. Besides a handful of games, he never knew when to make the right changes. Again, his trust in the squad was minimal.
- ETH won't work out here became evident from the middle if last season. It's not just the result & performances this season.
If McKenna shows that same naivety and lack of understanding of the league & the team then he won't deserve 'time' either. However, even if he shows incremental progress, then he can have all the time in the world.
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Don't remember that being said.
I read somewhere that McKenna actually subs players before the 88th minute, and for that reason alone I'm in.
Yeah you're right, but literally nobody said that.
If Mckenna is the guy we go with, it would be quite clear we would like to actually play the quick transition Liverpool-esque football that Ten Haag failed to establish this season. His team in the championship had the most shots. They also had an average of 53% possession, which suggests that its clearly not a possession based system he uses.
From what I've seen, he plays a narrow 4231, with a very narrow and tight front line, to ensure that nothing goes through the middle. Which also helps with combination play in transition.
Build up seems to be similar to a lot of teams, but rather than having a midfielder drop deep, having a more defensively focused full back as part of the back 3, whilst the other one pushes up. I can see Shaw taking on that role.
He also seems to uses a lot of switches and quick combinations. For me, a more sophisticated style than Ole used, with a balanced shape employed to modernise it.
Ironically, we already have good pieces for this in Rashford, Bruno, Mount, Hojlund, Amad, Shaw, Martinez and Dalot. We will probably need to ensure we have good energy coming from midfield, so 2 midfielders, a centre back, another winger and a back up striker should suffice. All of whom have high energy and the quality to move the ball quickly.
From what I've seen, he plays a narrow 4231, with a very narrow and tight front line, to ensure that nothing goes through the middle. Which also helps with combination play in transition.
Build up seems to be similar to a lot of teams, but rather than having a midfielder drop deep, having a more defensively focused full back as part of the back 3, whilst the other one pushes up. I can see Shaw taking on that role.
He also seems to uses a lot of switches and quick combinations. For me, a more sophisticated style than Ole used, with a balanced shape employed to modernise it.
Ironically, we already have good pieces for this in Rashford, Bruno, Mount, Hojlund, Amad, Shaw, Martinez and Dalot. We will probably need to ensure we have good energy coming from midfield, so 2 midfielders, a centre back, another winger and a back up striker should suffice. All of whom have high energy and the quality to move the ball quickly.
McKenna subs 2-3 forwards at about 65-70 minutes every game. So that blokes who have been champing at the bit to get on are released on defenders who have already been out there for an hour or so. It's very entertaining...... You dont want him.
Nah, bald, never gonna work
Doesn't scream "Manchester United Manager" to me. Ten Hag did and he's been the worst manager I've ever seen at Utd so I'm willing to accept I maybe am not a great judge of that and give him support if he does get the job. Very impressive accomplishments at Ipswich.
He’s done a cracking job at Ipswich but it’s such a big step up to us. It seems a bit daft to move for such an unproven option when we know there are others there that have managed PL teams to impressive seasons.
Even if he was to go off to Brighton and do really well, there’s clearly no certainty he’d replicate that here. We’re a mess and need a manager who’s proven at this level so theres more chance to steady the ship.
All fine and well having the best in class behind the scenes but you still need a manager worth their salt at the highest level. Especially with the gap between us and the top.
Even if he was to go off to Brighton and do really well, there’s clearly no certainty he’d replicate that here. We’re a mess and need a manager who’s proven at this level so theres more chance to steady the ship.
All fine and well having the best in class behind the scenes but you still need a manager worth their salt at the highest level. Especially with the gap between us and the top.
He's done well with Ipswich, but the jump from that to the United job is astronomical, they're absolutely lightyears apart. The likes of Potter and Howe are recent examples of other young British managers bringing a club up into the Premier League, and we've seen how they've fallen short at bigger clubs that are still nowhere near the level of pressure as United.
None of what I said is hypotheticals. Yes we don't know how the impact was spread between the coaches, but you have to judge a manager on multiple factors. If you are at rock bottom like we are and like we were when Ole took over, you have to rebuild it. We need a big squad refresh. We need an identity. We need a functional system that the whole group is aligned to. Fluking results isn't it, you need to do it as a group and the underlying metrics will support that.
Under Ole, that was the best we've been post Sir Alex for those 2.5 seasons before he tried changing things in summer 2021. Just because Ole was not able to do the summer 2021 transition well, doesn't discredit the development job he did in the first 2 years. Those first 2 years are absolutely required. And just because it wasn't Pep or Klopp football doesn't mean it wasn't a clear identity and style of play. Being a solid team who is excellent on the break is still a clear team style that did well for a good period of time, and it was the best stretch we've had post Sir Alex. It just didn't have the ceiling to compete with Pep and Klopp, and Ole was unable to make the changes to get to that level.
The key is next time, we need to make better signings who can take that next step. Whatever style we build, we have to keep building that and the recruitment needs to push to improve on that. Ole changed it up fully to try and compete at the top and he was unable to implement something that worked, but also that meant the players we had didn't necessarily suit that and the players we signed didn't mesh with that. That's when it all starts falling apart.
There's too many insufferable posters certain who isn't a good option but clueless when it comes to actually making a decent suggestion who is.
It wasn’t. That’s what I’m saying. If they’d have said that then McKenna could have been a shout. But they said they wanted the best. I don’t know who the best is that’s available but it ain’t an up and coming manager.
From the mentioned managers he's the most risky but the one with most potential in my eyes. We know what can we expect from Pochetino and ultimately he's not top tier. He's a good manager but failed to achieve what was expected on PSG and Chelsea so I wouldnt be to excited about him coming here.
Tuchel is a short term manager, he's toxic and I dont think he's a manager you should get when you're in transition. He's the kind of manager to get when you already have a settled team and you're looking for short term success. Anyone can see this would end up badly here.
De Zerbi I think has a higher potential, he had that Brighton team playing beautifuly last season but there's also the question if thats due to brighton's system or if its him. We saw what happened with Potter at Chelsea.
On the other hand McKenna hasnt any to top flight experience but could had hardly got better results with Ipswich, getting two consecutive promotions with Ipswich who is by no means a rich or powerful club is impressive. All this while playing great football, the down part is we've seen what happened with Kompany who had Burnley playing great in the championship and was truly awful in PL.
Ultimately if we're to compete with City we need a top manager and a top squad, they're top notch so we need something speciall to compete with them. Theres no warranty any manager can compete with City but if we're going to gamble we should gamble big time and I think McKenna is the one who offer the biggest potential.
Tuchel is a short term manager, he's toxic and I dont think he's a manager you should get when you're in transition. He's the kind of manager to get when you already have a settled team and you're looking for short term success. Anyone can see this would end up badly here.
De Zerbi I think has a higher potential, he had that Brighton team playing beautifuly last season but there's also the question if thats due to brighton's system or if its him. We saw what happened with Potter at Chelsea.
On the other hand McKenna hasnt any to top flight experience but could had hardly got better results with Ipswich, getting two consecutive promotions with Ipswich who is by no means a rich or powerful club is impressive. All this while playing great football, the down part is we've seen what happened with Kompany who had Burnley playing great in the championship and was truly awful in PL.
Ultimately if we're to compete with City we need a top manager and a top squad, they're top notch so we need something speciall to compete with them. Theres no warranty any manager can compete with City but if we're going to gamble we should gamble big time and I think McKenna is the one who offer the biggest potential.
The good thing for McKenna to come here now is that ETH has cleaned out Ronaldo. The current group of the players we have are good fellas in general.
Having read upon his tactics and watched some clips, the first thing that sticks out for me is the fact that he plays with a double pivot. Two of them actually sit in front of the back four and one full back (usually the right back) will stay back, making a 5+5 in attack/defence.
That is somewhat how Ole set up. The only thing he lacked was the creativity when he played Fred and McTominay and the dynamism with Matic and Pogba.
Had he got that set up right, along with more dynamic centre backs, we'd have seen the some progression.
That is somewhat how Ole set up. The only thing he lacked was the creativity when he played Fred and McTominay and the dynamism with Matic and Pogba.
Had he got that set up right, along with more dynamic centre backs, we'd have seen the some progression.
Lacked the signings for it, I think. Telles, Donny, Varane, Sancho, Ronaldo…
If we end up with McKenna I really hope Wilcox, Berrada help him bring in a few good coaches to support him.
Mckenna will absolutely have a say when it comes to recruitment if he joins the club. A head coach is always involved when it comes to recruitment at well run clubs. And it won't be any different with Dan Ashworth who has gone on record and stated that he only goes ahead to sign a player if he has agreement with the head coach on transfer targets.
And the money spent on Antony is quite clearly a problem that the Glazers created. It was widely reported about the budget being £120m in the summer of 2022, and there was reports in Brazil about United pulling out after around £40m was rejected. But after back to back defeats in the first two games the Glazers dipped into the revolving credit facility. So the football people at the club who have been planning with a budget of £120m are told there's a extra €100m to spend right at the end of the window when it's difficult to plan anything.
https://x.com/lauriewhitwell/status/1565090623740383235?t=V00MJzNEETf3rZMAqfWfWQ&s=19
And the money spent on Antony is quite clearly a problem that the Glazers created. It was widely reported about the budget being £120m in the summer of 2022, and there was reports in Brazil about United pulling out after around £40m was rejected. But after back to back defeats in the first two games the Glazers dipped into the revolving credit facility. So the football people at the club who have been planning with a budget of £120m are told there's a extra €100m to spend right at the end of the window when it's difficult to plan anything.
https://x.com/lauriewhitwell/status/1565090623740383235?t=V00MJzNEETf3rZMAqfWfWQ&s=19
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People expected OGS to win the league. Folk were complaining that we finished in 2nd and 'way off the pace'.
If McKenna finishes 4th next season he'll be considered a massive success, and bear in-mind we only finished 8pts behind Villa with absolutely atrocious VAR decisions and terrible injuries.
And I think this is where our new structure will hopefully come into play. We, in my opinion, have always been quite close to making that next step, but we often make a mess in the transfer window which really pushes us back.
Hojlund
Rashford Bruno Garnacho
Mainoo New CDM
LB Martinez CB Dalot
Onana
I think if we get those three positions right, along with some good squad additions, it will really move us up another level.
Like people have said. That was 4 years ago. I’d like to think that people improve on their job within 4 years.
And also, he was just a young newbie coach at that time. Now he’s coming as manager (with big IF). So players acceptance hopefully would be much different.
For me Brighton would be a poor choice. It's a safe choice but they lack any real ambition.I would like to see him do another season at Ipswich & then either Man Utd or another top club.
I wish him well at Ipswich. He genuinely seems wedded to the project there and as mouth-watering a prospect managing United might be for him, he's young enough and you just know the job will become vacant again in the next two or three years. Let's see what he can do with Ipswich. If Ten Hag does leave, I think they'll get Poch in.