Leaders on the Training Field

[diarm]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/av/football/48199045

I thought this was an interesting clip with Peter Crouch talking about how ruthless Gerrard and Carragher would be at training and how instantly they would dismiss a £15 million brand new signing as shit if he miscontrolled a pass. He spoke about how much he worked on his touch just so he wouldn't show himself up when Gerrard was firing bullets at him.

We need men in that dressing room and on that training field who are going to demand better from the weak, unfocused, fashionistas we have flouncing around our club for the handful of hours they spend "at work" during the week.

He also said he knows fellas like Terry, Lampard, Keane and Viera were the exact same and I'd imagine we could comfortably add Scholes, Giggs, Cantona, Ronaldo, Shearer, Company, Hazard, Henry, Bergkamp, Van Nistelrooy, Drogba and many more to that list.

People are always saying all modern footballers are the same, they all do the social media and brand clothing line shit at other clubs but they still succeed but there are still plenty of modern players who want to be the best footballer they can be first and foremost, and then worry about the other stuff after. We see that at Barca and Real, at Liverpool, City and Spurs but for most of our squad, it seems playing football is only a means to the end of being a celebrity.

Who at Carrington this morning is firing bullet after bullet at Lukaku and then calling him out for being useless as they all bounce off him? Who is putting passes in front of Martial and then screaming at him to stop being a lazy fecking shit when he's just standing still waiting for the ball to arrive at his feet for the 50,000th time this week? Who is Rashford scared enough of to stop ballooning stupid shots from distance and who makes Alexis Sanchez shudder every time he sees him as he parks his car at the training ground each morning?

I read on here yesterday that someone didn't think Lukaku releasing his own clothing line had any effect on his ability to control a ball but that's bollocks - you hear constantly about the work ethic, training intensity and incredible extra hours of training put in by guys like Cantona, Ronaldo, Henry and many others to become better every day. Crouch was doing it because he cared about not being seeing as shit by the leaders in his squad. If it takes more than one hand to count the extra training hours Lukaku has put in since he joined the club I'll eat his monthly protein bar subscription.

Nobody in our squad cares because we have no leaders bar a handful of washed up old wingers and centrebacks who are less technically able than anyone else in the squad anyway.

It fits in with the complete lack of strategy and focus across the board at the club but if we're not going to reorganise things behind the scenes, let's at least spend some of this money on the types of playing personalities who might take matters into their own hands.

The problem is that as we let this shitshow descend further and further into farce, the fix becomes more and more difficult to acquire. The sort of leaders who demand better of their peers, also demand better of themselves and their decision making so are more likely to look at the shambles at United and say "feck that".

Whoever we sign this summer, that single-minded, aggressive, uncompromising attitude towards quality is the most important ingredient for me. Its essential in any even half decent side and we have absolutely none of it.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Keane used to do the same. Think it was Rio who said that he walked in one his first session feeling like the cock of the walk. Then Keane started firing really hard passes at him and making life hard to show him that his big fee meant nothing.

 

[diarm]

Keane used to do the same. Think it was Rio who said that he walked in one his first session feeling like the cock of the walk and Keane started firing really hard passes at him and making life hard to show him that his big fee meant nothing.

I bet that it became very clear, very quickly to Fergie and his staff who were the players who were going to make it at United and who were the flowers who were going to wilt.

You create that pressure and intensity in training and those who can handle it are going to cope when they make it onto the pitch.

It's not a difficult concept and there are plenty of clubs replicating it with players of today.

 

[roonster09]

Keane used to do the same. Think it was Rio who said that he walked in one his first session feeling like the cock of the walk. Then Keane started firing really hard passes at him and making life hard to show him that his big fee meant nothing.

Rio said that about Ole, when he failed to control a pass, Ole said "Is this all you get for £30million these days?

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I bet that it became very clear, very quickly to Fergie and his staff who were the players who were going to make it at United and who were the flowers who were going to wilt.

You create that pressure and intensity in training and those who can handle it are going to cope when they make it onto the pitch.

It's not a difficult concept and there are plenty of clubs replicating it with players of today.

It was this story actually

"In one of my first sessions, I got the ball and passed to Gary, who was on my team," said Ferdinand. "In a normal game that was a great ball - pass to your teammate, go up the pitch.

"And then Keane turned round and just started going: 'Pass it forward, take risks, you're not at Leeds [United] or West Ham now, you're at Manchester United!'

It was Yorke with the hard passing story, said that he walked in on his first day all happy which annoyed Keane so

Yorke failed to control a deliberately overhit pass from Keane in his first training session. "Cantona used to kill them," Keane sneered.

 

[Fosu-Mens]

Rio said that about Ole, when he failed to control a pass, Ole said "Is this all you get for £30million these days?

If we did this during our trainingsessions, then there would be nothing but talk.
Half our squad are incompetent when receiving the ball, and their passing is no better.

 

[roonster09]

It was this story actually

"In one of my first sessions, I got the ball and passed to Gary, who was on my team," said Ferdinand. "In a normal game that was a great ball - pass to your teammate, go up the pitch.

"And then Keane turned round and just started going: 'Pass it forward, take risks, you're not at Leeds [United] or West Ham now, you're at Manchester United!'

It was Yorke with the hard passing story, said that he walked in on his first day all happy which annoyed Keane so

Yorke failed to control a deliberately overhit pass from Keane in his first training session. "Cantona used to kill them," Keane sneered.

I think Neville also said if the pass is made in such a way that receiving player breaks his stride, Keane used to shout at them. Keane set the standards according to Neville. It was all so good to read.

 

[diarm]

If we had a handful of leaders worth their salt, fellas like Valencia, Young, Darmian, Rojo, Smalling, Jones, Shaw, Sanchez, Lingard, Lukaku, Martial, Mata and more would be long gone. They'd have taken wage cuts to join lower to mid-table clubs just to avoid the shame of having to come into work every day under an air of contempt.

Instead of that, we give them raises, contract extensions and starting positions. Then we let our youngsters look to them as role models and wonder why we aren't improving.

 

[JPRouve]

I think Neville also said if the pass is made in such a way that receiving player breaks his stride, Keane used to shout at them. Keane set the standards according to Neville. It was all so good to read.

The same thing was said about Henry, he would allegedly lose it if the pass wasn't sharp and without bounces.

 

[diarm]

It was this story actually

"In one of my first sessions, I got the ball and passed to Gary, who was on my team," said Ferdinand. "In a normal game that was a great ball - pass to your teammate, go up the pitch.

"And then Keane turned round and just started going: 'Pass it forward, take risks, you're not at Leeds [United] or West Ham now, you're at Manchester United!'

It was Yorke with the hard passing story, said that he walked in on his first day all happy which annoyed Keane so

Yorke failed to control a deliberately overhit pass from Keane in his first training session. "Cantona used to kill them," Keane sneered.

Those two incidents show a side of Keane that in the big picture, was probably more important to the success of pro-era United than his performances on the pitch.

He was an incredible player, captain and warrior but it's that influence in demanding better of everyone, every single day that meant matches for United players were often far easier than the training sessions proceeding them.

He wasn't the only one either, Irwin, Schmeichel, Neville, Bruce, Robson, Scholes, Giggs, Cantona, Ronaldo - we had loads of them who walked the walk and then demanded their colleagues did too. Now we have none and it shows.

 

[roonster09]

The same thing was said about Henry, he would allegedly lose it if the pass wasn't sharp and without bounces.

Yeah, we need players like that, who are best players and set the standards. Just reading about Keane makes me wonder if we ever sign a player like that.

"Without a shadow of a doubt the most inspirational football player that I played with. Because he wasn’t only the best player on the pitch most weeks, which obviously is a fantastic thing with a captain, then everyone else will sort of follow your lead...

"But just the influence he had in terms of his standards, the fact that he made everyone else feel 10-foot tall, the fact that he demanded from you all the time. He was almost like Sir Alex Ferguson out on the training pitch and in the changing room.

"There was never any drop in standard from Roy."

The show's host David Jones then asked Gary if Keane "ruled by fear." Neville dismissed that suggestion and said that Keane set the standards for others at the club to follow.

"No, he wasn’t ruling by fear. It would be absolutely wrong to say that," he said.

"It was more about standards, what was expected. Your touch should always be good, your passes should always be good, you should never be late. Just standards in life that everybody would want.

"It’s not about fear, it’s about doing the right things and being the right way. And the fact of the matter is, he lived by those standards himself. So, it wasn’t as if he was telling us to do one thing and he was doing something different."

"Somebody who wasn’t vocal at all, but he had everybody following him because of his levels of performance and he carried the team in matches. And then Roy took over from that and was just… you could argue he was the best defender in the team, you could argue he was the best attacker in the team, one of the best passers in the team, he ran the most.

"So, at all the facets of the game... (he was) the ideal captain really. Growing up, Bryan Robson was the perfect captain, and playing under Roy Keane was very similar."

 

[RussellWilson]

Can you imagine our training sessions now. With players laughing and joking. Can you imagine anyone tearing into someone for lapse in concentration on a pass or control. Would never happen, Ashley Young is leader in the dressing room apparently and he can't pass or control in a game so I doubt he's going at people in training.

 

[Skills]

If this type of character is critical, who do you think the players are at Manchester City and Liverpool who act like this on behalf of the team?

 

[crossy1686]

Keane used to do the same. Think it was Rio who said that he walked in one his first session feeling like the cock of the walk. Then Keane started firing really hard passes at him and making life hard to show him that his big fee meant nothing.

Yeah that was Solskjær. Rio said he tried to play a pass on the volley but it spun and hit him in the face during one of his first sessions. Ole said 'how much?'

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[crossy1686]

I think Neville also said if the pass is made in such a way that receiving player breaks his stride, Keane used to shout at them. Keane set the standards according to Neville. It was all so good to read.

Neville also said Keane squared up to him once because he took a touch before playing a cross instead of playing a cross first time.

 

[Casanova85]

Christ, I hope Ole goes full nuclear this summer. The weak, clueless, indifferent shit he must have seen during the training days since he was appointed.

Pogba looks like one of those guys who cannot face criticism during training.

 

[JPRouve]

If this type of character is critical, who do you think the players are at Manchester City and Liverpool who act like this on behalf of the team?

At Liverpool, I believe that Milner is supposed to be that type of character while at City it's probably Guardiola himself. An other anecdote, apparently when Deschamps was promoted to the first team at Nantes, he quickly acted as a leader, scolding senior players on the training pitch which wasn't really appreciated, now the interesting part is that he is supposed to be a joker too but there is a place and a time for joking and training.

Christ, I hope Ole goes full nuclear this summer. The weak, clueless, indifferent shit he must have seen during the training days since he was appointed.

Pogba looks like one of those guys who cannot face criticism during training.

Pogba is one of the player that is described as always excellent and professional on the training ground, so your comment is strange. Something that I never heard about him though, is about being a leader during training.

 

[roonster09]

Neville also said Keane squared up to him once because he took a touch before playing a cross instead of playing a cross first time.

Yeah, remember reading that. This is what we need, player who plays well week in week out and someone who can set the standards. This is what dressing room culture is all about.

 

[diarm]

If this type of character is critical, who do you think the players are at Manchester City and Liverpool who act like this on behalf of the team?

Kompany, Van Dijk, Milner, Henderson, Salah, Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne.

I might be missing some names and could be off base with a couple buy I'm willing to bet that at least two thirds of those names are on that training ground every day, demanding higher standards from their teammates.

 

[crossy1686]

Yeah, remember reading that. This is what we need, player who plays well week in week out and someone who can set the standards. This is what dressing room culture is all about.

I mean, Keane is a bully and we don't need that but we do need someone who sets the tone in terms of expectation. At the moment it feels like we've got a bunch of snowflakes who play well when the manager is telling them how great they are but the second he gives them a bollocking they start sulking and down tools.

 

[Casanova85]

Pogba is one of the player that is described as always excellent and professional on the training ground, so your comment is strange. .

Yeah, his training under Mourinho was peachy.

 

[roonster09]

I mean, Keane is a bully and we don't need that but we do need someone who sets the tone in terms of expectation. At the moment it feels like we've got a bunch of snowflakes who play well when the manager is telling them how great they are but the second he gives them a bollocking they start sulking and down tools.

Neville

"No, he wasn’t ruling by fear. It would be absolutely wrong to say that," he said.

"It was more about standards, what was expected. Your touch should always be good, your passes should always be good, you should never be late. Just standards in life that everybody would want.

"It’s not about fear, it’s about doing the right things and being the right way. And the fact of the matter is, he lived by those standards himself. So, it wasn’t as if he was telling us to do one thing and he was doing something different."

It's not just fear, he set high standard for himself and others.

 

[JPRouve]

Yeah, his training under Mourinho was peachy.

The only time Mourinho mentioned it, he did say that he was the best. Now what you have in mind is something that has nothing to do with football.

 

[Skills]

Pogba is one of the player that is described as always excellent and professional on the training ground, so your comment is strange. Something that I never heard about him though, is about being a leader during training.

Mourinho could've come to Old Trafford, pulled his pants down, taken a shit in the center circle and sold that turd off as a chocolate bar to a massive chunk of our fanbase. They would lap it right up.

 

[crossy1686]

Neville


It's not just fear, he set high standard for himself and others.

I agree, but this sticks in my mind:


Leaked Whatsapp message from the Rep. Ireland camp.

 

[diarm]

I mean, Keane is a bully and we don't need that but we do need someone who sets the tone in terms of expectation. At the moment it feels like we've got a bunch of snowflakes who play well when the manager is telling them how great they are but the second he gives them a bollocking they start sulking and down tools.

I hate this shit. Keane made mistakes and he isn't a great pundit but without his "bullying" United wouldn't have had half the success we had during his time here.

Sir Alex went too far at times and got things wrong occasionally but no decent United fan would dismiss his impact at the club and call him a bully we don't need.

Likewise for Keane - he's a flawed man and he made mistakes like we all do, but his errors pale into insignificance beside the good he did for this club and as a United fan you owe him more respect.

Give a good coach a prime Roy Keane, our U23's and a mid-table prem transfer budget and he'd build you a better squad than we have at the moment.

 

[Minimalist]

It’s hard to imagine who we have in the squad that can actually command top respect like that these days. Most of them haven’t won shit.

 

[johanovic]

Watching a training session where Keane would be involved as coach and seeing him give Pogba and Martial some "stern" advice would be a joy to watch. Being a professional football player means you are in a very hard enviroment where there is constant competition and high demands. I´m old school in beliving that there is no way a Pogba or a Martial can showcase their talent unless both their athletic condition and mental condition is of the highest order. To put it in simple terms, they are lazy and do not give a feck.
Football players crying and claiming bullying are a disgrace to those that have had to withstand/go trough bullying in their live. There should be no space for guy´s not giving a feck at United and the standard´s should be high. Constant excuses for players that do not do the basic things like tracking back, winning tackels and give a proper effort despite the Hollywood passes not coming off drives me bonkers. Seeing Pogba with hands up in the air after losing the ball instead of tracking back is just not right. Martial not bothering to move around and so on. I would love for Keano to be a part of the coaching setup(I know he will not be) and bring back the standards set back in the Fergie years. Train hard, play hard and leave everything on the field.

 

[jem]

Those two incidents show a side of Keane that in the big picture, was probably more important to the success of pro-era United than his performances on the pitch.

He was an incredible player, captain and warrior but it's that influence in demanding better of everyone, every single day that meant matches for United players were often far easier than the training sessions proceeding them.

He wasn't the only one either, Irwin, Schmeichel, Neville, Bruce, Robson, Scholes, Giggs, Cantona, Ronaldo - we had loads of them who walked the walk and then demanded their colleagues did too. Now we have none and it shows.

He was just incredible. I often fantasize about having a young Keano on this team and his having a go at this current lot. Can you imagine what he would say every time Lukaku failed to control a pass or jogged half-heartedly, thumbs aloft? Or how irate he would be seeing Rashford try one of those counter-attack killing little chip passes with the outside of his boot? De Gea booting a clearance into touch would be met with a homicidal glare. Mata endlessly recycling the ball and being overly deferential would incur the Keano wrath (actually that thought breaks my heart - how could anybody get mad at Mata?)

 

[Based Adnan]

I've yet to see Ashley Young display a resemblance on leadership aside from somehow being at this club for as long as he has. Imagine performing shit in training and Ashley Young has the audacity to have a go at you? You'd laugh it off and tell him to focus on his own game as he's so fecking shite. Same applies to pretty much most of our senior players that have been here for a while like Smalling and Jones.

 

[Leftback99]

I imagine Zlatan would have been the closest we had recently in terms of a standard setter in training. The squad looks pathetic in this regard now.

The hope is that this is obvious to Ole and he does something about it with recruitment.

 

[johanovic]

He was just incredible. I often fantasize about having a young Keano on this team and his having a go at this current lot. Can you imagine what he would say every time Lukaku failed to control a pass or jogged half-heartedly, thumbs aloft? Or how irate he would be seeing Rashford try one of those counter-attack killing little chip passes with the outside of his boot? De Gea booting a clearance into touch would be met with a homicidal glare. Mata endlessly recycling the ball and being overly deferential would incur the Keano wrath (actually that thought breaks my heart - how could anybody get mad at Mata?)

Agree with you but somehow footballers today are treated like primadonnas and some say these methods belong in the past. But try telling that to a surgeon,nurse,policemen,teachers,fishermen,pilots and many other that are used to working in a very demanding enviroment where there is no room for mistakes(or a least not much), constant pressure, they have lives in their hands in some cases or are responsible for those we care about.
Those people here above are used to things being talked about in no uncertain terms.
And then some people worry about a overpaid footballer living a dreamlife being told and shown clearly what is expected of him.

 

[diarm]

Agree with you but somehow footballers today are treated like primadonnas and some say these methods belong in the past. But try telling that to a surgeon,nurse,policemen,teachers,fishermen,pilots and many other that are used to working in a very demanding enviroment where there is no room for mistakes(or a least not much), constant pressure, they have lives in their hands in some cases or are responsible for those we care about.
Those people here above are used to things being talked about in no uncertain terms.
And then some people worry about a overpaid footballer living a dreamlife being told and shown clearly what is expected of him.

Couldn't agree with you more.

These pampered little shits are living a highlife that was built on the backs of legends like Keane, Cantona, Adams, Vieira, Terry, Bruce, Lampard, Gerrard, Carragher, Shearer, Henry, Solskjaer and the many others we have and haven't mentioned who built this fecking league. Warriors who handed out bollockings on a daily basis and other, quieter men of character who decided that they were going to work harder to meet those expectations rather than piss and moan about what sort of respect and kinder treatment they "deserved".

Those men are the reason this is the biggest league on the planet and they are the reason you're paid the ridiculous money you are. Nobody is tuning in because of your Twitter account or whatever godawful video you've just posted on Instagram you tedious little gobshite.

Respect is earned not deserved and either this generation of players starts stepping up and accepting that or they'll be just as much the reason when the next generation of fans have turned their backs on the league and game.

Except it's not a generational thing. Those players still exist and there are loads of them in the Premier League today. United just seem to have gone out of our way over the last decade to follow the Newcastle United/Aston Villa model of accumulating the biggest number of spineless and unmotivated bellends in one squad that we could possibly muster.

We probably have had a fair number of the quieter characters who would have knuckled down and achieved things had there been a sprinkle of leadership and fire amongst them but we'll never know. Best to purge the lot and start again before any more of our youngsters get infected by the rot.

 

[GBBQ]

Lukaku releasing his own clothing line

Is this true? is it a joint venture with Jacamo?

 

[VeevaVee]

Don't like the terms but it's alpha and beta isn't it? We don't have any of the former.

 

[diarm]

Don't like the terms but it's alpha and beta isn't it? We don't have any of the former.

Hadn't thought about it like that but yes I suppose it is. And we definitely don't.

 

[Ian Reus]

A long long way from this.

 

[johanovic]

A long long way from this.

Agree with you and this picture say´s it all really in regards to how far we have fallen

 

[DOM6284]

There is a severe lack of leadership in this team however I think it is a more widespread problem in football and indeed society and not just restricted to our club. We live in a culture and society now that is obsessed with tweets, likes and posts on instragram and our players seem to have too many distractions outside playing football, there are a no. of them that have their own fashion brands. It's not a bad thing to have your own business ventures outside football but when it has an affect on the hours a player is putting in on a training pitch I think we have a problem.

The culture of football needs to change. I attended the end of season home match a few years ago and and in an age when players are kept at a distance from the general public I witnessed a no. of very attractive young ladies getting access to the pitchside to get selfies with a no. of first team players. On leaving the ground I observed a group of young girls (approx. 17-18 years old) making a pursuit for the bus the youth team were in.

Fame and wealth are coming too easy and too early to players these days and I think this has a major impact on the drive and leadership they show when playing for the first team.

 

[Sir Scott McToMinay]

There’s literally not a single leader in this squad, it is shambles.