Let's all laugh at Spain
- Thread starter ivaldo
- Start date
Good thing the EUROS dont count. We missed 2 penalties during regular time and 3 in a row in the shoot out against Italy in 2000
I think that game is famous for being the most boring knockout game in the history of the World Cup.
Spain, and especially Barcelona fans, has a huge (misplaced) hubris issue. Reading the comments back from 2018 in this thread is like grounhog day.
Half of the country is so nostalgic of the 2008-2010-Guardiola era that they think they need to copy/paste this philosophy no matter what. IT. DOESN'T. WORK. It doesn't work for spain, it doesn't work for Barcelona, it doesn't work for Guardiola who moved on, it only worked in a very specific setting with Iniesta/Xavi/Busquets at their prime.
They're trying to teach all their midfielders how to play in a specific area so it looks like tika taka wih a lot of passes when in fact it's all BS. Tika Taka worked because Iniesta was an absolute genius that was able to be where he needs to be, when he needs to be, he wasn't tethered to a 5 meter box.
On top of that, their forwards suck and Olmo was only able to pretend for a year or so he was a top player. He's good, but it's very underwhelming for a country like spain.
And there you have all the 2010 nostalgics (some are spanish but i've seen others on this very forum) who are trying to sell us Pedri and Gavi as the new Xavi/iniesta duo, the golden generation or whatever. They're not, at least not yet, and they already showed several times with Barcelona that they were not ready to carry this weight on the biggest of stages. Some people are trying so hard to re-live the Guardiola era that they just don't realize it's not going to happen again. They need to find something different, they need to give their players freedom (especially Pedri), they need to remember that football is about scoring goals.
Half of the country is so nostalgic of the 2008-2010-Guardiola era that they think they need to copy/paste this philosophy no matter what. IT. DOESN'T. WORK. It doesn't work for spain, it doesn't work for Barcelona, it doesn't work for Guardiola who moved on, it only worked in a very specific setting with Iniesta/Xavi/Busquets at their prime.
They're trying to teach all their midfielders how to play in a specific area so it looks like tika taka wih a lot of passes when in fact it's all BS. Tika Taka worked because Iniesta was an absolute genius that was able to be where he needs to be, when he needs to be, he wasn't tethered to a 5 meter box.
On top of that, their forwards suck and Olmo was only able to pretend for a year or so he was a top player. He's good, but it's very underwhelming for a country like spain.
And there you have all the 2010 nostalgics (some are spanish but i've seen others on this very forum) who are trying to sell us Pedri and Gavi as the new Xavi/iniesta duo, the golden generation or whatever. They're not, at least not yet, and they already showed several times with Barcelona that they were not ready to carry this weight on the biggest of stages. Some people are trying so hard to re-live the Guardiola era that they just don't realize it's not going to happen again. They need to find something different, they need to give their players freedom (especially Pedri), they need to remember that football is about scoring goals.
Serves them right for dropping big Dave.
They remind me of how Spain was before their successful period. Always dominating games, playing beautiful football at times but always going out early.
they needed 78% of the ball and 1020 passes for their single shot on target in the whole game. efficient.
Quality wise, the end product has been once again absymal in spite of technical ability and game intelligence… which just shows the current crop of players is not good enough to win games when it matters.
Well, now that you said it, i have to admit that i thought the problem was me, because i watch those two players and i just can't see what people are talking about. To me they are good players, but would not make the top 20 i would like to be signed for my club.
Enrique saying he didn’t know who Ounahi is (a player who’s been a starter for Morocco for a while) says something about their arrogance. Makes you wonder if they prepared this game the way they’d have prepared for Belguim or Croatia..
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I see Barca players, I like it when they get knocked out.
Simples.
Simples.
Age blinds people. Deficiencies are dismissed because progression is wrongly considered to be linear and everything they do well is OMG can you believe he’s only x years old!!!
I think Pedri could really be worldclass if he's allowed to fulfill is potential instead of being stuck in a box. He's a very good player. I've always had doubts about Gavi, I think he's good but has a lower ceiling (it's only my opinion and a gut feeling, I can't demonstrate it).
I wanted to laugh, but I dozed off
That's one of the most important thing about football, and the reason why I always laugh when I read people who write after 3 good games "he's going to be soooo good for us, we're set for 10 years!". There's a gazillion of things that could go wrong. Asensio, Isco, Dele Alli.... the list is almost endless.
That's a very uncharitable interpretation of this quote. Unless the clip gives more context.
They were disgustingly bad. I was rooting for them to win today but they deservedly got sent home. Never seen a spain side that piss poor in my life.
To late to pull some levers?
Even worse, without the quality those teams had.
This is where my issue is too. I see particularly in Pedri, a player who has the ability to keep the ball really well when pressured....and that's it. What does he do with that skill?
Iniesta used to roam around his side of the pitch, providing support to players struggling to keep the ball due to him being able to keep the ball even in the tightest circumstances. This made it easy to retain possession, but also made it easy to do this in more dangerous areas of the pitch. He also used to be able to drive when presented, whilst also having a very exact through ball, which he used to provide additional penetration. So far, outside of moving the ball, I don't see any of the roles and duties Iniesta had.
In comparison to Xavi. Xavi also had this ability to keep the ball, but he also used his sharp first touch to open up angles for himself to make passes. Further to this, he always requested for the ball and was always trying to set the tempo of the game. He provided an additional link to the defence by coming deeper at times, but for the most part, where Iniesta acted as a responder, providing support to teammates struggling to keep possession; Xavi was taking the ball to ensure the flow of play. He also roamed, sometimes playing one-two's in order to get back control of the ball for a switch of play or with an eye to make a penetrative pass.
What I see from both Pedri and Gavi is them simply passing the ball with no real assignment. Gavi can at times provide more of a box to box presence with runs and defensive actions, which he does decently, but not at the level people make it out to be ( which is fair given his age). Pedri doesn't dictate a game, yet people act like when they see Barcelona having more possession than their opposition, Pedri in particular must be the heartbeat of that. Which isn't the case. I actually think Busquets has more of a claim to that, in a similar way to what Fernandinho and Rodri are doing for City. In fact, I'll go as far as saying the duo are actually Man City's 2019 midfield without David Silva or Bernardo Silva's dribbling action or occassional penetrative passes....meaning that they aren't the hub of the possession football. For Barca, Kounde, Alba, Busquets, Frenkie and Eric Garcia provide more passes that Pedri, who provides 51 per game. Gavi averages 29 passes per game. In contrast, Xavi was averaging 100+ passes per game, whilst Iniesta was averaging around 70 passes.
I'm not saying they have to be exact copies, but I really don't see exact roles either. You have people calling them better than a young Fabregas. People saying they are better than a creative dribbling attacking juggernaut in Musiala, a box to box force in Bellingham and the perfect destroyer with good technical skills in Tchouemeni. I'm not even including the likes of Foden here either.
My hot take is Busquets is one of the most overrated players of all-time. He's been able to relatively very little for club and country since Xavi and Iniesta left him. He's been overtrusted in elite games for club and country, Barca have been subjected to some humiliations with him in midfield in the past. He's had a brilliant career, but doesn't deserve to be in the bracket of greatest ever defensive midfielders imo, just lacks that bit extra.
I do think Asensio up top and Ferran Torres on the right were mistakes, as it looked like pre-tournament it was Morata up top, Torres out left where he's a genuine goal threat unlike on the right and then whoever catches form on the right (Nico Williams or Sarabia).
It's like Enrique didn't study the Morocco-Croatia game even though the Croat midfield was neutralized and it's one of the only ones that plays a Spanish style at an elite level. I bet on Spain to win it in extra-time before the game because watching that game you felt the #8s, Amrabat and the wonderful fullbacks could keep the pressure off of the Moroccan CBs and Bono.
I guess in hindsight, the Spanish would have been better playing a 4-4-2 with Ferran and Morata up front, Gavi and Pedri narrow and then Busquets and Koke in the middle. They'd have lost the ball more without wide man on the touchline to give it to and Ziyech-Hakimi would have probably hurt them down the right at some point, but they had to open up the game after seeing the Morocco-Croatia result.
Certainly at halftime, the move was Morata for Olmo, stick Asensio on the right, Ferran on the left and tell the team to play more directly. Llorente at RB was also a weird call. Moving him into Gavi's spot to try to win 2nd balls more, and play Azpilicueta to have a proper crosser of the ball to hit Morata or Ferran in the box would have made sense.
Basically, Lucho had to build a plan B formation-wise that wasn't just 4-5-1, and he had 2 years to do it, and didn't. He ran into a team well suited to playing it that showed they can handle an elite midfield in the group stages and he failed to adjust. Sort of reminds me of Ferguson losing to Arsenal and then going into the Barca CL final with Rooney as a #10 even though we saw that it didn't work well against top quality passing opposition and was better suited to destroying teams that were more open.
It's like Enrique didn't study the Morocco-Croatia game even though the Croat midfield was neutralized and it's one of the only ones that plays a Spanish style at an elite level. I bet on Spain to win it in extra-time before the game because watching that game you felt the #8s, Amrabat and the wonderful fullbacks could keep the pressure off of the Moroccan CBs and Bono.
I guess in hindsight, the Spanish would have been better playing a 4-4-2 with Ferran and Morata up front, Gavi and Pedri narrow and then Busquets and Koke in the middle. They'd have lost the ball more without wide man on the touchline to give it to and Ziyech-Hakimi would have probably hurt them down the right at some point, but they had to open up the game after seeing the Morocco-Croatia result.
Certainly at halftime, the move was Morata for Olmo, stick Asensio on the right, Ferran on the left and tell the team to play more directly. Llorente at RB was also a weird call. Moving him into Gavi's spot to try to win 2nd balls more, and play Azpilicueta to have a proper crosser of the ball to hit Morata or Ferran in the box would have made sense.
Basically, Lucho had to build a plan B formation-wise that wasn't just 4-5-1, and he had 2 years to do it, and didn't. He ran into a team well suited to playing it that showed they can handle an elite midfield in the group stages and he failed to adjust. Sort of reminds me of Ferguson losing to Arsenal and then going into the Barca CL final with Rooney as a #10 even though we saw that it didn't work well against top quality passing opposition and was better suited to destroying teams that were more open.
Spain with Xavi/Iniesta and Villa was equally boring but more efficient. Now they are just plain boring.
Barcelona with Xavi / Iniesta was again boring, but with Messi doing magic, people thought that this defensive system is god-like.
Barcelona with Xavi / Iniesta was again boring, but with Messi doing magic, people thought that this defensive system is god-like.
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Xavi might be boring, but Iniesta? Nah, he was magical on his day.
Spain absolutely dominated possession and passes, so they were the moral victors, i guess.
Now this is BS. He can't be alone. The reason Gavi and Pedro gets the chance to play week in and week out to develop is because of Busq. I've been to several Barca matches this year and he is easily the best player on the pitch.
Spanish football is not even foreplay, it’s driving past your girlfriend’s all night long with your lights off until you run out of gas. You’re never getting any. Ever.
Holy smokes, this thread is 4 years old but the comments are as if written today. Nothing changes.
You’re naming two of the best and dominant sides in football history and naming two of the most magical players to ever play the game in Xavi and Iniesta. Magic ain’t just scoring goals and I suggest you look back at Xavi again with your assessment. The guy was a fukin Jedi. If you have any appreciation for our own Carrick, Scholes, Eriksen - you will understand how gifted you have to be to make the game look that easy.
Watching the game live, it was strange seeing Busquets trying to smile while coming up to take the kick, and then seeing his face switching to a more serious look while his eyes were darting around focusing on different things in a short time. He even looked up in the sky or somewhere high up in the stands towards the end. Had a feeling he'd missed and he did. In hindsight, it was obvious he was bricking it.
This style of football needs to fecking die, it’s an absolute travesty.
You’d have thought the absolutely twattings even an incredibly talented Barça side took to Bayern would’ve been a wake up call but no, more and more Spanish teams kept adopting this anti-football feckwitery.
I hated our EL groups games vs. Sociedad for the same reason, it’s like football designed to bore the feck out of everyone and especially the opposition so that one eventually falls asleep and you capitalise on it.
I’ll celebrate every time Spain get beat playing this utter nonsense ball.
Copy Madrid instead you buffoons.
You’d have thought the absolutely twattings even an incredibly talented Barça side took to Bayern would’ve been a wake up call but no, more and more Spanish teams kept adopting this anti-football feckwitery.
I hated our EL groups games vs. Sociedad for the same reason, it’s like football designed to bore the feck out of everyone and especially the opposition so that one eventually falls asleep and you capitalise on it.
I’ll celebrate every time Spain get beat playing this utter nonsense ball.
Copy Madrid instead you buffoons.
Agree. People used to put his poor performances in the CL to losing his legs but he went to shit at around 27. It should shock some posters that he’s only 34 now never mind when they were making those excuses 6/7 years back
That was Spain in 2010, basically.
They just sat on the ball forever, and finally gets the perfect chance to capitalize on.
Love these weird stats. Another one is Italy haven’t played in a World Cup knockout game since Ronaldo was 21 years old.
That is a truly brilliant stat, wow.
Yeah, Iniesta was a wonderful player. Doesn't mean Pep's team wasn't sometimes boring (like any other team) but he was very special and deserved a Ballon d'or back in 2012.
What a little cnut.
Morata is one of the worst strikers of all time. Imagine being a striker and not stepping up to take one of the first 3 penalties and watching DM's take them instead.