Let's not buy Raiola players again - ever

jackal&hyde

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That's beside the point that you made in the previous post but just a small thing that is quite important. He said "Today, I would not bring any player at United.", I already told you what the context of that quote was and why the highlighted is important particularly when you interpret it the way you did. I will say it one more time and move on, he is talking about the state of the team today and its ability to support a player that would be aiming for silverware, today.
I was explaining why an agent expressing opinions like a fan or the media is a very different situation, how is that besides the point to my previous post?

I understand the context and it doesn't matter. He could have chosen to be diplomatic, respectful, as a professional in the game, but he did not. How many agents would have given that sort of answer? I think it's personal and i've written why, we'll agree to disagree.
 

JPRouve

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I was explaining why an agent expressing opinions like a fan or the media is a very different situation, how is that besides the point to my previous post?

I understand the context and it doesn't matter. He could have chosen to be diplomatic, respectful, as a professional in the game, but he did not. How many agents would have given that sort of answer? I think it's personal and i've written why, we'll agree to disagree.
Your first post suggested that his comment would have an effect on other players and therefore agents opinion about United, as well as our ability to strike commercial deals. Raiola's comments have no influence on these things, he isn't the Pope and he is no more insightful than other agents/agencies, his comments have no influence on other football actors actions or reactions. That's where you give him to much credit.

As for the second part, Raiola is not diplomatic, he isn't respectful and that's why not many other agents would give that type of answer openly, they do it indirectly through journalists(the infamous sources). And the context does matter otherwise you would assume that Raiola and Dortmund wouldn't talk to each others after Mkhitaryan's exit but the reality is that it was simply business. In this case the interviewer and Raiola make it clear that they are talking about where United is in 2019 and what it means for a player looking for silverware, it doesn't even apply to someone that just wants money or game time.
 

GazTheLegend

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You are giving an awful lot of credit. No one in football/adverstisement waited for Raiola to speak to a couple of journalists to have a negative opinion of the way United are doing things and where they seem to be heading. You just need to look at Redcafe, we have been discussing about the things he mentioned for years now and it's the same for every agents, coaches, sport journalist and any company that may want to be associated with United.
Not sure why you’re defending what is essentially a fecked system to be quite honest.

Raiola and other super agents are a cancer on the game, the fact that anyone has to listen to anything an agent has to say at all is a big problem.

Raiola is playing both sides every time and cleverly managing the angles - his aim as an agent is to get a player moving from club to club every season the way Zlatan did. He takes a cut from every club whereby he claims he did it for the PLAYERS benefit, and every useful idiot parrots that view.

This Haaland business is the latest example of Raiola ruining the system in a sense - Haaland only joined Dortmund because Raiola gets a cut of his next move. Raiola gets to bat his eyelashes at every top club in the world in 2 years time while Haaland batters sub par German defences into submission.

People will argue it’s what Haaland wants - and yeah maybe it is but it is also, unequivocally what Raiola wants. He gets power over player and club and that’s too much - it’s a conflict of interest too much.

The players might not care but its
money that WE AS FANS are paying that are going into Raiolas pockets!!!! I don’t like knowing that part of paying for a ticket at the Stratford end or wherever is going to end up in Mino Raiolas bank balance in order for supposed good players to walk out on the pitch.
 

JPRouve

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Not sure why you’re defending what is essentially a fecked system to be quite honest.

Raiola and other super agents are a cancer on the game, the fact that anyone has to listen to anything an agent has to say at all is a big problem.

Raiola is playing both sides every time and cleverly managing the angles - his aim as an agent is to get a player moving from club to club every season the way Zlatan did. He takes a cut from every club whereby he claims he did it for the PLAYERS benefit, and every useful idiot parrots that view.

This Haaland business is the latest example of Raiola ruining the system in a sense - Haaland only joined Dortmund because Raiola gets a cut of his next move. Raiola gets to bat his eyelashes at every top club in the world in 2 years time while Haaland batters sub par German defences into submission.

People will argue it’s what Haaland wants - and yeah maybe it is but it is also, unequivocally what Raiola wants. He gets power over player and club and that’s too much - it’s a conflict of interest too much.

The players might not care but its
money that WE AS FANS are paying that are going into Raiolas pockets!!!! I don’t like knowing that part of paying for a ticket at the Stratford end or wherever is going to end up in Mino Raiolas bank balance in order for supposed good players to walk out on the pitch.
I'm not defending the system, it's actually because the system is fecked as a whole that I don't get why people are focused on one agent that isn't even close to be the worst offender. And also due to your paragraph about Haaland to Dortmund, to claim that Haaland only joined Dortmund because of Raiola is baffling, you would think that Dortmund are Guanghzou Evergrande and not one of the biggest European and German club. To be honest, United fans are being incredibly insulting and condescending.
 

schmousi

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Not sure why you’re defending what is essentially a fecked system to be quite honest.

Raiola and other super agents are a cancer on the game, the fact that anyone has to listen to anything an agent has to say at all is a big problem.

Raiola is playing both sides every time and cleverly managing the angles - his aim as an agent is to get a player moving from club to club every season the way Zlatan did. He takes a cut from every club whereby he claims he did it for the PLAYERS benefit, and every useful idiot parrots that view.

This Haaland business is the latest example of Raiola ruining the system in a sense - Haaland only joined Dortmund because Raiola gets a cut of his next move. Raiola gets to bat his eyelashes at every top club in the world in 2 years time while Haaland batters sub par German defences into submission.

People will argue it’s what Haaland wants - and yeah maybe it is but it is also, unequivocally what Raiola wants. He gets power over player and club and that’s too much - it’s a conflict of interest too much.

The players might not care but its
money that WE AS FANS are paying that are going into Raiolas pockets!!!! I don’t like knowing that part of paying for a ticket at the Stratford end or wherever is going to end up in Mino Raiolas bank balance in order for supposed good players to walk out on the pitch.

Words of wisdom my friend - words of wisdom! :angel:
 

GazTheLegend

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I'm not defending the system, it's actually because the system is fecked as a whole that I don't get why people are focused on one agent that isn't even close to be the worst offender. And also due to your paragraph about Haaland to Dortmund, to claim that Haaland only joined Dortmund because of Raiola is baffling, you would think that Dortmund are Guanghzou Evergrande and not one of the biggest European and German club. To be honest, United fans are being incredibly insulting and condescending.
It’s the truth. Dortmund are a great side and all but the German league is not a great league in quality terms.

To claim that Haaland didn’t join Dortmund because of Raiola is naive in the extreme. I think it’s career planning on Haalands part and he will leave that club in 3 years when the release clause stipulated BY RAIOLA (that has not been denied -anywhere-) is activated by a club that pays more.

You should be more disgusted that Raiola is treating a big club like Dortmund as a stepping stone for his client if you want to paint faux outrage. Nobody is trying to be disrespectful to Dortmund but there’s clearly a reason no club wanted to accept Raiolas terms (whereas Haaland joining is seen as a coup in the German media, I’m personally glad we didn’t bow to those outrageous demands.)
 

JPRouve

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It’s the truth. Dortmund are a great side and all but the German league is not a great league in quality terms.

To claim that Haaland didn’t join Dortmund because of Raiola is naive in the extreme. I think it’s career planning on Haalands part and he will leave that club in 3 years when the release clause stipulated BY RAIOLA (that has not been denied -anywhere-) is activated by a club that pays more.

You should be more disgusted that Raiola is treating a big club like Dortmund as a stepping stone for his client if you want to paint faux outrage. Nobody is trying to be disrespectful to Dortmund but there’s clearly a reason no club wanted to accept Raiolas terms (whereas Haaland joining is seen as a coup in the German media, I’m personally glad we didn’t bow to those outrageous demands.)
This makes no sense whatsoever. Haaland is a 19 years old that mainly played in the Austrian and Norwegian leagues, the Bundesliga and Dortmund are a big step up. And of course it's a career planning on Haaland's part, all players plan their careers whoever their agent is, they set themselves short and long term goals. Also clauses aren't a novelty, Haaland had one with Salzburg when he wasn't with Raiola and he may or may not have one now, there is no reason to obsess about Raiola on that point when the player and his father already negotiated one in the past and when I don't even remember an other of his client having such a clause.

And your last point is made up, you have no idea about what the demands were, you don't know who made them and you don't know who accepted what.
 

jackal&hyde

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All players dream of playing for the most prestigious clubs and the biggest money. When those clubs come for you, in this case Juve and United, might have been others, and you sign for, no disrespect here,a lesser side, there are questions to be asked. One can say it's arrogant, ok. Just in recent history we have Pulisic, Sokratis, Aubameyang, Dembele with Sancho to fallow that have made moves, with the exception of Dembele, not to the CL or championship winners, but to much more prestigious clubs and leagues. It is a fact that Dortmund is not in the same category as the clubs mentioned for a number of reasons, it's not an insult it's reality and their own players searching for moves shows this.

We can dress it all we want in bs like "German club good for attacker" but young or old, players want to make as big a step as they can. That this did not happen gives a lot of credit to the idea that it was the best move for the agent, not the player, and there probably were stipulations in the contract that Juve and United said no too.
 

JPRouve

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All players dream of playing for the most prestigious clubs and the biggest money. When those clubs come for you, in this case Juve and United, might have been others, and you sign for, no disrespect here,a lesser side, there are questions to be asked. One can say it's arrogant, ok. Just in recent history we have Pulisic, Sokratis, Aubameyang, Dembele with Sancho to fallow that have made moves, with the exception of Dembele, not to the CL or championship winners, but to much more prestigious clubs and leagues. It is a fact that Dortmund is not in the same category as the clubs mentioned for a number of reasons, it's not an insult it's reality and their own players searching for moves shows this.

We can dress it all we want in bs like "German club good for attacker" but young or old, players want to make as big a step as they can. That this did not happen gives a lot of credit to the idea that it was the best move for the agent, not the player, and there probably were stipulations in the contract that Juve and United said no too.
Players have career plans and smart players don't move to the biggest clubs earlier than they should, particularly when they aren't guaranteed to play or one of these club isn't actually stable at the moment.
 

GazTheLegend

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This makes no sense whatsoever. Haaland is a 19 years old that mainly played in the Austrian and Norwegian leagues, the Bundesliga and Dortmund are a big step up. And of course it's a career planning on Haaland's part, all players plan their careers whoever their agent is, they set themselves short and long term goals. Also clauses aren't a novelty, Haaland had one with Salzburg when he wasn't with Raiola and he may or may not have one now, there is no reason to obsess about Raiola on that point when the player and his father already negotiated one in the past and when I don't even remember an other of his client having such a clause.

And your last point is made up, you have no idea about what the demands were, you don't know who made them and you don't know who accepted what.
I feel like it’s obvious why Raiola wanted Haaland to join Dortmund and I feel it’s a safe assumption given the number and size of clubs vying for his signature that
it's a career planning on Haaland's part, all players plan their careers whoever their agent is, they set themselves short and long term goals.
Do you feel that Haalands long term goal is to remain at Dortmund for the rest of his career? Will he/won’t he move teams in 3 years time?

Would Raiola have found it more difficult to get Haaland to move clubs if he was successful at Manchester United? He seems vexed that we’ve not sold Pogba yet given his constant badmouthing of our club to the press.
 

jackal&hyde

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Players have career plans and smart players don't move to the biggest clubs earlier than they should, particularly when they aren't guaranteed to play or one of these club isn't actually stable at the moment.
OK then, he is more special and smarter then the many young players that have joined the big clubs. Funny how this career planing leads to the perfect outcome for his agent though.
 

harms

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No surprises there, two pointless people who steal their respective livings coming together for mutual benefits and agenda.
Raiola is far from pointless. Fans rightfully hate him, but he always gets the best deals for his clients.
 

JPRouve

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I feel like it’s obvious why Raiola wanted Haaland to join Dortmund and I feel it’s a safe assumption given the number and size of clubs vying for his signature that


Do you feel that Haalands long term goal is to remain at Dortmund for the rest of his career? Will he/won’t he move teams in 3 years time?

Would Raiola have found it more difficult to get Haaland to move clubs if he was successful at Manchester United? He seems vexed that we’ve not sold Pogba yet given his constant badmouthing of our club to the press.
Why would I think that a 19 years old player will remain in his current club for the rest of his career, it rarely happens in football? And Raiola doesn't particularly move players, his clients don't move more than other agents clients. For all I know Haaland could do what Insigne and Nedved did, find a home and stay where they are or maybe he wants to do what Ibrahimovic did, move around and experience life in different leagues and countries. You will have to ask him.
 

RedBanker

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Raiola is far from pointless. Fans rightfully hate him, but he always gets the best deals for his clients.
Raiola is pointless for football and clubs. He is worth a lot for footballers and their parents who want to make money. I.e. more and more money. Over the next decade, just see how many times Haaland moves. There are other agents such as Mendes, Joorabchian etc. who do not stink up the place with their greed and classless behaviour. Profitable business can be done without being a scumbag. And it's not as if he is messiah for his agents. Didn't Lukaku fire him recently?
 

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All players dream of playing for the most prestigious clubs and the biggest money. When those clubs come for you, in this case Juve and United, might have been others, and you sign for, no disrespect here,a lesser side, there are questions to be asked. One can say it's arrogant, ok. Just in recent history we have Pulisic, Sokratis, Aubameyang, Dembele with Sancho to fallow that have made moves, with the exception of Dembele, not to the CL or championship winners, but to much more prestigious clubs and leagues. It is a fact that Dortmund is not in the same category as the clubs mentioned for a number of reasons, it's not an insult it's reality and their own players searching for moves shows this.

We can dress it all we want in bs like "German club good for attacker" but young or old, players want to make as big a step as they can. That this did not happen gives a lot of credit to the idea that it was the best move for the agent, not the player, and there probably were stipulations in the contract that Juve and United said no too.
Such entitlement and disrespect for dortmund for a midtable club who one month ago bordering on relegation fight. Basically anyone that dont fancy joining united is a greedy cnut?
 

JPRouve

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Raiola is pointless for football and clubs. He is worth a lot for footballers and their parents who want to make money. I.e. more and more money. Over the next decade, just see how many times Haaland moves. There are other agents such as Mendes, Joorabchian etc. who do not stink up the place with their greed and classless behaviour. Profitable business can be done without being a scumbag. And it's not as if he is messiah for his agents. Didn't Lukaku fire him recently?
But footballers are Football, they are what makes Football, it's their work and image that generates that money and it's only fair that they get a substantial part of that money and find someone that will help them get it. Also the fact that you used Mendes and Joorabchian as models is telling, the popes of third party ownership.
 

jackal&hyde

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Such entitlement and disrespect for dortmund for a midtable club who one month ago bordering on relegation fight. Basically anyone that dont fancy joining united is a greedy cnut?
It has nothing to do with Dortmund.
 

RedBanker

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But footballers are Football, they are what makes Football, it's their work and image that generates that money and it's only fair that they get a substantial part of that money and find someone that will help them get it. Also the fact that you used Mendes and Joorabchian as models is telling, the popes of third party ownership.
Everyone doing business wants to maximise profit. It's a known thing. But some people just don't know how to contain their greed and maintain a bit of class. We have greased Raiola's palm many a time in the past. But he still holds grudges over Pogba and now he is directly foul-mouthing our club. One should have the minimum amount of respect for the hand that feeds them. I never said Mendes etc. are model agents, please read it again. I said they have never spouted nonsense about one of the biggest clubs in the world especially one which has given them mucho dinero throughout their deals with us. But maybe it's my mistake to expect class from a semi-literate pizza cook (my bad and no offence to pizza cooks in general, rectfied as rightly pointed out by @JPRouve .)
 
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harms

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Raiola is pointless for football and clubs. He is worth a lot for footballers and their parents who want to make money. I.e. more and more money. Over the next decade, just see how many times Haaland moves. There are other agents such as Mendes, Joorabchian etc. who do not stink up the place with their greed and classless behaviour. Profitable business can be done without being a scumbag. And it's not as if he is messiah for his agents. Didn't Lukaku fire him recently?
He's not working for football (what's that exactly?) and clubs. He's one of the best in the world at what he does and it's not a coincidence that top players continue to sign with him even though he's apparently "stealing a living". The fact that he doesn't act in your interest, or in the interest of the football club that you support, doesn't mean that he's pointless. Mendes actually often forces the clubs and the players to act in his own interests and he is the king of shady deals. While the list of Raiola's clients includes the likes of Pavel Nedved, who is basically the integrity and loyalty personified.

For the record — I don't like Raiola, but you should criticise him for the stuff that he does wrong, not for the stuff that he does right.
 

JPRouve

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Everyone doing business wants to maximise profit. It's a known thing. But some people just don't know how to contain their greed and maintain a bit of class. We have greased Raiola's palm many a time in the past. But he still holds grudges over Pogba and now he is directly foul-mouthing our club. One should have the minimum amount of respect for the hand that feeds them. I never said Mendes etc. are model agents, please read it again. I said they have never spouted nonsense about one of the biggest clubs in the world especially one which has given them mucho dinero throughout their deals with us. But maybe it's my mistake to expect class from a semi-literate pizza cook.
Mendes uses the press to do his job, he forces move that way. And the point I'm making here is that Mendes or Joorabchian should never be used in a conversation about moral or Football's interest which is what you did. And clubs don't feed Raiola or the players, they are sometimes business partners, clubs aren't doing him or players a service. While I personally think that diplomacy and gravitas are always a good thing, it's not an obligation.

And your last sentence is ironic because you show no respect to pizza cooks, the way you use it in a pejorative. There is nothing wrong with being a pizza cook, it tells you nothing about someone's character and intelligence.
 

RedBanker

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He's not working for football (what's that exactly?) and clubs. He's one of the best in the world at what he does and it's not a coincidence that top players continue to sign with him even though he's apparently "stealing a living". The fact that he doesn't act in your interest, or in the interest of the football club that you support, doesn't mean that he's pointless. Mendes actually often forces the clubs and the players to act in his own interests and he is the king of shady deals. While the list of Raiola's clients includes the likes of Pavel Nedved, who is basically the integrity and loyalty personified.

For the record — I don't like Raiola, but you should criticise him for the stuff that he does wrong, not for the stuff that he does right.
By getting good contracts for his clients he is doing is job nothing less nothing more. Yes and he is doing a good job at it. While putting stuff such as release clauses so as to ensure that he can milk the cow again when needed. Top players sign with him for the bling. And Nedved played in a different era of football. Agents didn't use to roam around like thugs dissing football clubs at their whim that time. And football is the game by the way. The one because of which Raiola exists and because of which he is a millionaire.

He has no right to foul mouth my club because his interests and agenda was not served. I have no issue with Haaland signing elsewhere. Raiola can take him to FC Smellycnuts for all i care. But insulting United was a mistake on his part. I am going to dish out criticism where it's due.
 

EireRed_GS

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By getting good contracts for his clients he is doing is job nothing less nothing more. Yes and he is doing a good job at it. While putting stuff such as release clauses so as to ensure that he can milk the cow again when needed. Top players sign with him for the bling. And Nedved played in a different era of football. Agents didn't use to roam around like thugs dissing football clubs at their whim that time. And football is the game by the way. The one because of which Raiola exists and because of which he is a millionaire.

He has no right to foul mouth my club because his interests and agenda was not served. I have no issue with Haaland signing elsewhere. Raiola can take him to FC Smellycnuts for all i care. But insulting United was a mistake on his part. I am going to dish out criticism where it's due.
Back in Nedveds day im sure agents kept quiet because clubs would prob just tell them to beat it. These days clubs pander to these gangsters, afraid of offending them.

I thought back in the day Joorabchian was the biggest crook going, demanding transfer fees going to himself, but Riaola has left him in the dust with what he has personally made from transfers. His job motivation now is creating stories and press rumours to get his clients moving around, because he knows thats where the big money is.

I hate the guy. I truly hope United rid themselves of any links to Riaola thats left, and take a stand and never deal with the cnut again. But with woodward, a year down the line he'll prob be sweet talked by Riaola into investing in one of his boys again
 

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Raiola is far from pointless. Fans rightfully hate him, but he always gets the best deals for his clients.
Maybe in terms of money? I'd say a lot of his clients actually don't evolve / have success in the club he helps them go to. Not sure that is down to Raiola as such, as every player has difficulties adjusting to new clubs, but..

Football-wise:
- Kluivert has not evolved as much as everyone expected at Roma.
- Pogba hasn't evolved at United.
- Zlatan didn't fit Barca.
- Donnarumma has suffered at Milan from Raiola being troublesome over contracts and over a move. The hype has gone.
- Mkhitaryan to Man Utd. On paper and in theory this looked like a great move. Maybe the Bundesliga was more his level.
- Moise Kean to Everton. Not sure he'll find his feet there.

If you take a look at a list of some of his bigger brokerings (taken from wiki) here:

In terms of actual getting a lot of money for his client, he's probably great. But if you look back on the last 10 years of his big transfers, then about 50% of where he gets his players to, they don't end up succesful. That's an agent's job too after all: Make the player find a club that they fit in and end up succesful in.

DatePlayerNew clubPrevious clubTransfer sum
Summer 2009Zlatan Ibrahimović (Flop)BarcelonaInternazionale€46 million[37]
Summer 2010Robinho (Flop)MilanManchester City€35 million[38]
Summer 2010Mario Balotelli (Good)Manchester CityInternazionale£24 million[39]
Summer 2010Zlatan Ibrahimović (Good)MilanBarcelonaLoan (€24M)
Summer 2012Zlatan Ibrahimović (Good)Paris Saint-GermainMilan€20 million
Winter 2013Mario Balotelli (Good)MilanManchester City€20 million
Winter 2013Bartosz Salamon (dont know him)MilanBrescia€3.5 million
Summer 2014Mario Balotelli (Terribly failed)LiverpoolMilan£16 million
Summer 2016Zlatan Ibrahimović (Succes)Manchester UnitedParis Saint-GermainFree[36]
Summer 2016Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Worse)Manchester UnitedBorussia Dortmund£31 million
Summer 2016Paul Pogba (Meh, worse)Manchester UnitedJuventus€105 million[40]
Summer 2016Mario Balotelli (Good for the player)NiceLiverpoolFree[41]
Summer 2017Romelu Lukaku (Meh)Manchester UnitedEverton€85 million
Summer 2017Blaise Matuidi (Meh)JuventusParis Saint-Germain€20 million
Summer 2019Matthijs de Ligt (Meh so far)JuventusAjax€75 million
Summer 2019Moise Kean (Flop so far)EvertonJuventus€27.5 million
Winter 2019Erling Braut HålandBorussia DortmundFC Red Bull Salzburg€20 million
 

JPRouve

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Maybe in terms of money? I'd say a lot of his clients actually don't evolve / have success in the club he helps them go to. Not sure that is down to Raiola as such, as every player has difficulties adjusting to new clubs, but..

Football-wise:
- Kluivert has not evolved as much as everyone expected at Roma.
- Pogba hasn't evolved at United.
- Zlatan didn't fit Barca.
- Donnarumma has suffered at Milan from Raiola being troublesome over contracts and over a move. The hype has gone.
- Mkhitaryan to Man Utd. On paper and in theory this looked like a great move. Maybe the Bundesliga was more his level.
- Moise Kean to Everton. Not sure he'll find his feet there.

If you take a look at a list of some of his bigger brokerings (taken from wiki) here:

In terms of actual getting a lot of money for his client, he's probably great. But if you look back on the last 10 years of his big transfers, then about 50% of where he gets his players to, they don't end up succesful. That's an agent's job too after all: Make the player find a club that they fit in and end up succesful in.

DatePlayerNew clubPrevious clubTransfer sum
Summer 2009Zlatan Ibrahimović (Flop)BarcelonaInternazionale€46 million[37]
Summer 2010Robinho (Flop)MilanManchester City€35 million[38]
Summer 2010Mario Balotelli (Good)Manchester CityInternazionale£24 million[39]
Summer 2010Zlatan Ibrahimović (Good)MilanBarcelonaLoan (€24M)
Summer 2012Zlatan Ibrahimović (Good)Paris Saint-GermainMilan€20 million
Winter 2013Mario Balotelli (Good)MilanManchester City€20 million
Winter 2013Bartosz Salamon (dont know him)MilanBrescia€3.5 million
Summer 2014Mario Balotelli (Terribly failed)LiverpoolMilan£16 million
Summer 2016Zlatan Ibrahimović (Succes)Manchester UnitedParis Saint-GermainFree[36]
Summer 2016Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Worse)Manchester UnitedBorussia Dortmund£31 million
Summer 2016Paul Pogba (Meh, worse)Manchester UnitedJuventus€105 million[40]
Summer 2016Mario Balotelli (Good for the player)NiceLiverpoolFree[41]
Summer 2017Romelu Lukaku (Meh)Manchester UnitedEverton€85 million
Summer 2017Blaise Matuidi (Meh)JuventusParis Saint-Germain€20 million
Summer 2019Matthijs de Ligt (Meh so far)JuventusAjax€75 million
Summer 2019Moise Kean (Flop so far)EvertonJuventus€27.5 million
Winter 2019Erling Braut HålandBorussia DortmundFC Red Bull Salzburg€20 million

Why Matuidi's transfer is meh, hasn't he been an undisputed starter?
 

ROFLUTION

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Why Matuidi's transfer is meh, hasn't he been an undisputed starter?
I guess he's been a starter. 27 matches and 29 matches in Serie A the last two years.

I haven't watched Juventus regularly to be honest so I could be wrong, just haven't heard he's set the Serie A alight. Maybe some Juventus fan on here can tell us if he's been a succes or if he's mostly just filled in, in lack of better players.
 

tenpoless

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Maybe in terms of money? I'd say a lot of his clients actually don't evolve / have success in the club he helps them go to. Not sure that is down to Raiola as such, as every player has difficulties adjusting to new clubs, but..

Football-wise:
- Kluivert has not evolved as much as everyone expected at Roma.
- Pogba hasn't evolved at United.
- Zlatan didn't fit Barca.
- Donnarumma has suffered at Milan from Raiola being troublesome over contracts and over a move. The hype has gone.
- Mkhitaryan to Man Utd. On paper and in theory this looked like a great move. Maybe the Bundesliga was more his level.
- Moise Kean to Everton. Not sure he'll find his feet there.

If you take a look at a list of some of his bigger brokerings (taken from wiki) here:

In terms of actual getting a lot of money for his client, he's probably great. But if you look back on the last 10 years of his big transfers, then about 50% of where he gets his players to, they don't end up succesful. That's an agent's job too after all: Make the player find a club that they fit in and end up succesful in.

DatePlayerNew clubPrevious clubTransfer sum
Summer 2009Zlatan Ibrahimović (Flop)BarcelonaInternazionale€46 million[37]
Summer 2010Robinho (Flop)MilanManchester City€35 million[38]
Summer 2010Mario Balotelli (Good)Manchester CityInternazionale£24 million[39]
Summer 2010Zlatan Ibrahimović (Good)MilanBarcelonaLoan (€24M)
Summer 2012Zlatan Ibrahimović (Good)Paris Saint-GermainMilan€20 million
Winter 2013Mario Balotelli (Good)MilanManchester City€20 million
Winter 2013Bartosz Salamon (dont know him)MilanBrescia€3.5 million
Summer 2014Mario Balotelli (Terribly failed)LiverpoolMilan£16 million
Summer 2016Zlatan Ibrahimović (Succes)Manchester UnitedParis Saint-GermainFree[36]
Summer 2016Henrikh Mkhitaryan (Worse)Manchester UnitedBorussia Dortmund£31 million
Summer 2016Paul Pogba (Meh, worse)Manchester UnitedJuventus€105 million[40]
Summer 2016Mario Balotelli (Good for the player)NiceLiverpoolFree[41]
Summer 2017Romelu Lukaku (Meh)Manchester UnitedEverton€85 million
Summer 2017Blaise Matuidi (Meh)JuventusParis Saint-Germain€20 million
Summer 2019Matthijs de Ligt (Meh so far)JuventusAjax€75 million
Summer 2019Moise Kean (Flop so far)EvertonJuventus€27.5 million
Winter 2019Erling Braut HålandBorussia DortmundFC Red Bull Salzburg€20 million
Good post. I wouldn't even consider Zlatan to ManUnited a success, decent perhaps? success was Pogba to Juve. That's worthy of being called a success.
 

ROFLUTION

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Good post. I wouldn't even consider Zlatan to ManUnited a success, decent perhaps? success was Pogba to Juve. That's worthy of being called a success.
Personally I'll also put him in the "decent" category, but everyone in here has been f*pping over Zlatan, so I thought I'd give him and Raiola the benefit of the doubt there :D
 

harms

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In terms of actual getting a lot of money for his client, he's probably great. But if you look back on the last 10 years of his big transfers, then about 50% of where he gets his players to, they don't end up succesful. That's an agent's job too after all: Make the player find a club that they fit in and end up succesful in.
No one has a perfect record. Listing Ibra & Pogba as flops is also debatable, especially Ibra (no one could've imagined that Pep would move Messi centrally, not even Pep himself). Mendes has Anderson, Simao, Mangala, Di Maria, Falcao, Sanches etc.; and it's only a tip of the iceberg.

You have to consider what Raiola actually does. He provides players with chances, whenever they succeed or not in the end is up to them. Balotelli is the perfect example. The big transfer to City > relative success & then discipline issues. And then, despite his horrible reputation that got worse and worse, Raiola organised his moves to Liverpool, Milan (twice), Nice, Marseille etc.
 

JPRouve

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I guess he's been a starter. 27 matches and 29 matches in Serie A the last two years.

I haven't watched Juventus regularly to be honest so I could be wrong, just haven't heard he's set the Serie A alight. Maybe some Juventus fan on here can tell us if he's been a succes or if he's mostly just filled in, in lack of better players.
As far as I know, he has been a favorite of both Allegri and Sarri. Both have been full of praises.
 

poleglass red

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As far as I know, he has been a favorite of both Allegri and Sarri. Both have been full of praises.
every team needs a player like him. He won't get the headlines, but his work rate enables those that do get them, are able to. Always thought he was a perfect player for PL, pity we weren't able to snap him up a few yrs back
 

the chameleon

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I generally see that a lot of his players are the more disruptive types. Players who think they are better than they are. Not all of them, but I have this tendency to question a player when they partner with him.

By excluding Mino Raiola we miss out on 0.0000001% of footballers in the transfer market. But we also reduce the odds of getting of getting an expensive dud.

Makes complete sense to eliminate him. We also need to get contracts signed to make sure that none of our current players sign with him.
 

JPRouve

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I generally see that a lot of his players are the more disruptive types. Players who think they are better than they are. Not all of them, but I have this tendency to question a player when they partner with him.

By excluding Mino Raiola we miss out on 0.0000001% of footballers in the transfer market. But we also reduce the odds of getting of getting an expensive dud.

Makes complete sense to eliminate him. We also need to get contracts signed to make sure that none of our current players sign with him.
Which players do you have in mind and how does it compares to other agents that you know?
 

do.ob

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All players dream of playing for the most prestigious clubs and the biggest money. When those clubs come for you, in this case Juve and United, might have been others, and you sign for, no disrespect here,a lesser side, there are questions to be asked. One can say it's arrogant, ok. Just in recent history we have Pulisic, Sokratis, Aubameyang, Dembele with Sancho to fallow that have made moves, with the exception of Dembele, not to the CL or championship winners, but to much more prestigious clubs and leagues. It is a fact that Dortmund is not in the same category as the clubs mentioned for a number of reasons, it's not an insult it's reality and their own players searching for moves shows this.

We can dress it all we want in bs like "German club good for attacker" but young or old, players want to make as big a step as they can. That this did not happen gives a lot of credit to the idea that it was the best move for the agent, not the player, and there probably were stipulations in the contract that Juve and United said no too.
And you bring these players up as examples because you think they didn't have offers from English clubs before they joined Dortmund? Like PL clubs somehow overlooked their countries biggest talent? Dembele and Sancho in particular were in positions quite comparable to Haaland's current and made a similar choice.
And in what universe would it be the (clearly) best move for the player to join United? Did you somehow forget what happened to most of United's recent signings? Where the club stands at the moment? Who they play against in Europe? How "well" Martial, once considered as promising a talent as Haaland, has developed?

Or the guy who thinks Raiola is a semi-literate "pizza cook" when he actually went to law school, supposedly speaks half a dozen languages and is one of the leading people in his field.

Blinded by your anger about a little interview.
 

Stacks

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Lingard and Raiola teaming up. No surprises there, two pointless people who steal their respective livings coming together for mutual benefits and agenda. What surprised me on this thread was the number of faux supporters using Raiola's vitriol to bash the club.
I think you should research the meaning of the phrase "stealing a living". Raiola attracts clients like no mans business so clearly is excellent at his job. his players typically land better moves and even their fathers get paid, just for being dads.
 

the chameleon

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Which players do you have in mind and how does it compares to other agents that you know?
Look up Mini Raiola on google. You might find his clients.

My point is that there are plenty of choices of players that don’t need a disruptive agent. Plenty of them would improve our team. Many clubs are doing just fine without his overpaid players who quite often to stink up the place due to his toxic influence.
 

wolvored

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Agents came about to help footballers get a good deal from the club. If Raiola wasnt any good then no footballer would want him. If he was no good then he couldnt demand fees for himself. Wish i was as good an agent as Raiola.
 

JPRouve

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Look up Mini Raiola on google. You might find his clients.

My point is that there are plenty of choices of players that don’t need a disruptive agent. Plenty of them would improve our team. Many clubs are doing just fine without his overpaid players who quite often to stink up the place due to his toxic influence.
I know who are his clients, I'm asking you a question.
 

Bastian

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Has there been any credible reporting on Lingard pairing up with Raiola? Has he commented on it himself? - leaving aside all the ridicule and whatnot, I would just find it staggering that a homegrown player would do that when Raiola is shitting on the club left, right, and centre.