Bloody hell Raees you don’t ‘choose’ your sexuality!
LGBT Relationship Lessons in UK Schools
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
You don't choose your sexuality you imbecile.
Again, are you OK with little kids being exposed to stories in which straight people get married or have kids?
You know what I meant don’t be pendantic. I mean decide to come out. As in they shouldn’t be forced to stay in the closet due to dogma etc.
Yes and like I said even the gay penguin story, I don’t see the harm as long as it’s not something which is part of a formal lesson to promote different types of relationships and gender identity. If it’s done passively I don’t see a big problem with that but in terms of formally educating them and making them fully aware of the range of relationships and gender choices then I would prefer they’re at least 10 or even 9 if we are looking at minimum limit.
You haven’t come here to engage in a debate just to act like an aggressive clown.
It isn’t being pedantic to point out people don’t choose their own sexuality. Say what you mean and don’t say something that is damagingly untrue.
And 9 is far too young.
My lad is 9 and he doesn’t need to learn about sexual relationships in school now. No chance!
Starting at Comp at 11 seems sensible to me.
Leave little kids be little kids ffs.
I don't want kids to read about gay penguins, only the straight ones. But I'm not a homophobe.
That stance is homophobic? Then I want it do be done differently than with straight penguins, just to be sure that my kids have a chance to escape the abomination that are same sex penguins. But please lord don't do it in the same way they do it with straight couples or my kid might choose to be a gay and I can't love it anymore.
That stance is homophobic? Then I want it do be done differently than with straight penguins, just to be sure that my kids have a chance to escape the abomination that are same sex penguins. But please lord don't do it in the same way they do it with straight couples or my kid might choose to be a gay and I can't love it anymore.
Why? What harm do you think is going to happen here?
You are afraid kids turn gay because of penguins.
There's a lot of veiled Islamophobia and Christianophobia in this thread, probably more so than homophobia.
No one said that. Jog on pal. You’ve added feck all to the debate at least elvis puts together some arguments and I know who he is.
Yes yes yes. Exactly. Fully agree with you here
No there isn't.
Cool well to make it abundantly clear - I think if people are gay, lesbian whatever then that is totally fine by me even if it was my own family. If that’s makes me a homophobe then we are clearly talking different languages. Furthermore I don’t think being gay is a choice as in something you switch on and off in the majority of cases.. I do think it is a natural occurrence and whether that is genetic or environmental I don’t think it is fully confirmed as of yet but hopefully that clears that up.
Thank you for not being the type of over reacting arsehole that populates these threads.
Hmmm , I'd question this.
But the T in LGBT isn't anything to do with sexualising anything, it's about gender, teaching kids that are this young that it's OK to challenge gender norms is perfectly acceptable in my opinion. Boys can wear dresses and play with toy ironing boards and girls can wear trousers. Nothing sexual in it.
Thanks but usually I am one of those people and proud of it.
Of course you're not. Just terribly afraid it might harm the children, opposed to straight penguins. Because as you said, seeing two male penguins going to the bed together can't be good for children. I wonder why?
Sorry but some of you are being massive arseholes in here. There's clearly a grey area discussion, a genuinely interesting one, to be had here yet you're reducing it to petty insults and simplistic arguments.
The harm is that let’s just take the cross dress and trans example.
A kid who engages in some cross dressing at age 4 does it out of a sense of curiousity and fun, or his parents think it would be cute if he dresses as a girl. They think nothing more of it.
Now suddenly at school he’s told that if he wants to cross dress on a more regular basis it’s totally cool and if he wants to become a girl permanently he can go ahead and do it. He has no idea of the medical consequences of undergoing this process and relationships wise how this will impact him long term.
So something which was just a bit of fun might now become a permanent obsession in his head. He is then trapped into a lifetime of hormone replacement, relationship issues (reduced pool of partners to pick from). So morally nothing wrong has happen but from a practical perspective you have altered his life and not necessarily for the better because you’ve made it harder.
Again not necessarily anything wrong with that but if you had waited till he’s abit older and he’s grown out of that phase and his parents probably wouldn’t cross dress him as he gets older.. when he’s given lessons on transgender he’s able to gain awareness of how to treat transgender and he feels secure in his own identity by then but can accept that others might not. Either way he’s in a more stable state of mind to process this info by virtue of being abit older.
On the flip side if he had throughout his childhood been feeling trapped in his body - the fact he’s had years of feeling trapped means he is a lot more sure that he is a girl in a boys body so when he does receive those lessons - he’s in a much secure position to make that leap of faith and change his identity because he’s confident his decision is the right one and he’s mature enough to make that call.
I was in year 4 (so 8 years old) when for the first time some other kid told me I'd dropped my "gay card" and the same year we found a porn mag thrown away in some bushes (after beavers... this sentence is fun). I figured out what the weird vending machines that I kept seeing in toilets were by year 5.
Kids find out about this stuff young whether or not the school or parents are telling them. I'd rather they find out about these things in a positive and well informed way, rather than what we had in the 90s.
Gay penguins are a problem for kids, straight ones aren't. Explain the grey area to me, please.
Kids don't get given hormones... They do get puberty blockers but this usually happens in their teens. There's is nothing wrong with kids challenging gender stereotypes. Putting a dress on doesn't make a boy any less of a boy. Clothes don't have a gender, they're made of cloth.
Perhaps if gender stereotypes were challenged they'd feel less of an affinity to need to transition when older? Perhaps they'd know it was OK to be themselves because society doesn't seem them any less?
So what you seem to be saying is that we need to make sure that children really want to transition and that the way to do that is by making sure they have a horrible early childhood where they don't know why they feel the way they do.
I genuinely feel sorry for your kids.
Yeah, I remember reading how the homosexual author Edmund White found some gay porn as a youngster, and how grim it seemed to him. This very 'grimness' really messed with his thinking.
Depends what they're learning. I can understand wanting a limit on it and not going into detail but the reality is that if your kid is 9 probably knows (or thinks he knows) a bit already, a lot of which may be wrong. People say "let kids be kids" but part of being a kid is being curious and talking about sex-related stuff with your friends.
I didn't have sex-ed when I was in primary school but boys in the senior classes certainly knew and talked to each other about things like sex, threesomes, how to avoid getting girls pregnant, etc.. It was terribly misinformed and immature stuff (lads calling each other virgins as a put down without irony, calling each other gay, saying your mom likes doing X or whatever) but the awareness was there. Plus this was in a time just before kids had mobile devices, which I'm sure has seen kids presented with information at an earlier age.
And as @Redlambs pointed out a few pages back, his 8 and 10 year old already know "a scary amount" about LGBT and trans issues. Sometimes I think adults underestimate or have forgotten what primary school kids are aware of.
Also, I'm just thinking of this from a boy's perspective. Girls can get their first periods at as young an age as 10 and I'm sure they are aware of it before then. Teaching them about that is part of sex ed too which makes waiting until 11 a potential issue as I would guess there can be quite a bit of anxiety and/or feelings of shame involved.
I don't know how my life would've been if I'd been told I had the ability to transition when I was a five year old who hated people calling me a boy. But I definitely feel robbed of that option.
You're hysterical. Seek help.
Every kid who is going to want to transition is going to have a horrible phase - it is that feeling of being trapped which is an indicator they’re in the wrong body.
It’s a necessary element in dictating whether they need transition.
If fecks you up because the only way you get confronted with these things is through raw, overly explicit and sexual imagery. You grow up without ever being given a healthy picture of what life might be like for you with a same sex partner. Only pornography and homophobia. It's traumatizing.
I’m fine - I think the hysterical militant fascist atheists crew in this thread needs to take a chill pill as they’re unable to consider anyone’s opinion but their own.
Dude, you seriously have no idea, clothes are not an element in deciding if you transition. Kids aren't given hormones and sticking a dress on won't make someone gay. Relax.
You're a raging homophobe and have no idea what you're talking about.
Yeah you are
But at least it's for a reason that you can argue. And one you should be able to. And for what it's worth, a reason I can fully agree with.
Sad thing is, that's actually true. I've only got involved because I actually have kids at school which this affects, but truth be told I question why I even have an opinion on here anymore. It really is a shining example of there's no right or wrong but there certainly is a leaning.
And it's not just even political, it's a very real echo chamber here now about any and all topics. We are so entrenched in our side, we just drive away opposite thinking yet wonder why we get the likes of trump and brexit.
Yet another wonderful contribution from this non entity.
Oh yeah, you seem fine to me, Raees. Not completely illogical at all.
It's sad how you're kids are affected by a fictional couple of same sex couple of penguins. Thoughts and prayers.Yeah you are
But at least it's for a reason that you can argue. And one you should be able to. And for what it's worth, a reason I can fully agree with.
Sad thing is, that's actually true. I've only got involved because I actually have kids at school which this affects, but truth be told I question why I even have an opinion on here anymore. It really is a shining example of there's no right or wrong but there certainly is a leaning.
And it's not just even political, it's a very real echo chamber here now about any and all topics. We are so entrenched in our side, we just drive away opposite thinking yet wonder why we get the likes of trump and brexit.
What’s illogical about it - did I say it will definitely lead to someone wanting to transition - it was ‘might’.