Lingard: RedCafe Enemy #1?

dannyrhinos89

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I wouldn't say I hate him but a few reasons I dont really care about him.

1. He has the brain of a Hyperactive toddler. He seems to care more about instagram and acting like a prat than actually trying to get better at football

2. He's obviously not going to get any better so what you have now is what you've got for his career. Which leads me to the point of him not being anywhere good enough to be at united even as a squad player.
 

dogwithabone

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5 goals in 42 games is having an eye for goal? His finishing is one of the worst things about him. He nearly cost us big time in the semi final of the EL. He then came on in the final and missed a one on one.

I can't think of a single top club who'd have him on the bench. When he leaves it will be BE to the likes of Stoke or Newcastle.
Well he's scored big goals that's for sure. FA Cup final, League Cup final, great goal away at Chelsea. I don't know what his over all ratio is but he seems more prolific than the 1 in 8 goal scorer you say he is.
 

Andy_Cole

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"He's the hero United deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight."
 

SirScholes

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Bar a year or two after Veron signed he played the majority of his career in a midfield two which was my point. Lampard played most of his almost like a second striker in a midfield 3, obviously he would score more goals in that position.

But anyway we're off topic so i'll leave it there.
Still to call him a deep midfield player for most of his career would be wrong.
Apologies for jumping in half way through.
I'll keep on topic, lingard is gash
 

mattsville

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I wouldn't say I hate him but a few reasons I dont really care about him.

1. He has the brain of a Hyperactive toddler. He seems to care more about instagram and acting like a prat than actually trying to get better at football

2. He's obviously not going to get any better so what you have now is what you've got for his career. Which leads me to the point of him not being anywhere good enough to be at united even as a squad player.
Can't agree with that assessment, he is a very intelligent and confident football player in the final 3rd, he does not have loads of pace and still a bit slight which at 24 is a bit surprising given the rigors of the PL and the fitness experts we have but he definitely deserves a place in the squad and he will get better, he is at the club a long time, players like him in your squad are invaluable over the course of a long season, he is kind of floating between roles and positions, he needs to define himself better, the squad is better balanced now and he will benefit from that, lots of players last season played more reserved or stunted roles for the good of the team due to squad imbalance.
 

Seij

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One thing that I find confusing with Lingard, is that I don't think that he is really that grand in defense. I mean, Park had three lungs and could run all day long (a bit similar to Gattuso in that aspect), Valencia became awesome in defense when he forgot how to attack, but Lingard (like Young) is just a bit better than Martial/Rashford there, while being miles worse when it comes to attacking.

But the ultimate thing is that the defensive attacker role in United won't ever be appreciated (and it really shouldn't). We hardly see Real, Bayern, Barca and other top teams leaving their great attackers in the bench and starting with the players whose biggest attribute is running a lot (and yes, scoring in Wembley in second order competitions, I saw it too).

I am okay with Lingard having the role he had yesterday (though, truth be told, I would prefer Pereira even in that role), but when you see him starting and Martial, Mata and Rashford are in the bench, you cannot help but getting annoyed.

Anyway, quite clear that the debate is going in the same direction as Cleverley one. A lot of people loving him by the virtue of being Manc and then imaging that he is three times the player he really is, while a lot of others don't appreciating a player who really is as bad as an attacking player can be. Like in Cleverley's case, my question to people who think that he is all that, 'would you think that we would have signed him if he was playing for some other team', and more importantly 'would you have liked to sign him if he was playing for some other team'? Would love to see someone answer any of these questions with a straight face saying 'Yes'.

Supporting a player, sure, that is our job. Claiming that he is a good player? That is lying to ourselves.
Very well put. I remember seeing some people saying online "If his name was Lingardinho, people would love him". I think it'd be the exact opposite and he would be ripped to shreds if he was an expensive signing from overseas playing the way he does.
 

AgentP

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He is just a replacement for Anderson as the team clown. I don't rate him highly but he's OK as an option from the bench. We can even play him as a wing back if needed.

We have three spots behind the striker. If we look at the options we have,

Lukaku/(Ibra)
Rashford/Martial-----Mkhi/Pereira-----Mata/Lingard
So right now, we can afford to have him as it's good to have two players for each position. But if we sign another winger, I don't see how Lingard will fit in.
 

mattunited1978

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So now we need Lingard especially if we come up against the likes of Ronaldo, this is like living in some fantasy land, in what way is Lingard a specialised defensive player, he's even worse at defending than he is attacking, another invented fallacy.

I don't think anyone worldwide expects Lingard to have even one assist or one goal in any game.
Martial took ten minutes to score one league goal yesterday which Lingard managed in one entire season.
The first sentence of this is how i feel,his defensive work is overrated imo,running a bit more than other attacking players dosnt make him a defensive lynch pin and being limited offensivly dosnt automatically mean he's great defensivley....madrids first goal the other night jesse was the closest player to carvajal who crossed the ball in,he chose to drift towards modric rather than close him down which in hindsight was the wrong decision as carvjal had all the time in the world to pick his pass,this isnt jesses fault because he's an attackin player and so he's goin to take wrong defensive decisions regularly,for me he's no more or no less astute as other attacking players when it comes to defending,just the same....he might put a bit more work in but theres more to being defensively sound than that and i dont think that bit of extra work is worth sacrificeing what we lose going forward.
You'd think reading this thread that our other wide players just stand in the opponents half and get the hump if theyr asked to help defensivley,its not the case... The Europe final we played mata and Henrikh as our wide players,we let ajax have a lot of the ball in our half but they wouldnt of scored if we were still playing now,we had them in our pocket because our whole team,including our henrikh and mata defended superbly...At the other end henrich scored from a mata corner.
Our record in games jesse starts against the better teams suggests he's not a great option to use against them.
 

SirScholes

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Can't agree with that assessment, he is a very intelligent and confident football player in the final 3rd, he does not have loads of pace and still a bit slight which at 24 is a bit surprising given the rigors of the PL and the fitness experts we have but he definitely deserves a place in the squad and he will get better, he is at the club a long time, players like him in your squad are invaluable over the course of a long season, he is kind of floating between roles and positions, he needs to define himself better, the squad is better balanced now and he will benefit from that, lots of players last season played more reserved or stunted roles for the good of the team due to squad imbalance.
This is incredibly off, in fact his biggest failing for me is his decision making process.
 

minoo-utd

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He is not progressing and he will not progress, he is a terrible player who almost earns as much as Harry Keane in Tottenham, he is shit I hate seeing him play for us.
 

minoo-utd

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"He's the hero United deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight."
A white walker?
 

noodlehair

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The problem is that being a hard working player who has minimal impact on a game is good enough for, say, West Brom. It's not good enough for a team who are trying to win the league. You have to be hard working AND have an impact on the game. You can't have situations where the time you are most noticed is when you are walking off the pitch to be replaced by someone better than you.

You look at United sides in the past who won titles, and every player in there is doing a job that is very noticeable. We had players who were in there to be disciplined and hard working, like Park, or Fletcher, but they still had quality, and would have an impact on the game...and they WOULD be disciplined. I know exactly what Fletcher and Park were used for...I don't really have a clue what Lingard is supposed to be doing, most of the time...because what he is doing that is actually useful, is nothing.

The issue I have with Lingard is this:

a) he isn't actually that disciplined. The team often loses shape when in possession because he thinks he's a no10 even when we already have someone else playing there. When we lose possession his side of the pitch is often exposed as he'll have wandered off somewhere to do nothing in particular. This happened repeatedly against Real. This would be annoying regardless of his level of talent. If you're going to drift out of position, it had better be to do something better than get in another player's way.

b) He's not very good at anything, to put it bluntly. He has a good shot on him, he can run fast, but that's it. Again, if you're not as talented as other players, you HAVE to make yourself noticeable or useful in other ways, by making an impact on games or your team's ability to perform in them. Against Real the only notable thing he did in 45 minutes was to get booked fouling someone whilst about 50 yards away from where he was supposed to be on the pitch. This would be fine if it was just a one off, or the odd bad performance, but this is the norm from Lingard. There is very rarely a game where you can say he is even a minor difference maker. Only on the rare occasion where he thumps the ball in from 25 yards...which mainly happens when we're already winning. In the Real game, Rashford came on at half time, played badly, but was a significant improvement, because he is both a threat and intelligent enough to know how to position himself to affect the game...nothing to do with being more talented, which he also is. Just about having the awareness to know how you can make yourself most useful. Generally, average players who make it in good teams, have this awareness...with Lingard half the time I'm not even sure if he's aware what the score is.

Lingard just isn't good enough, basically. He isn't an awful player but he's the sort you'd expect to crop up in the Carling Cup, or when we have our annual injury crisis. He isn't the sort of player you expect to appear 40+ times a season, or as part of a first choice 11 against the likes of City or Real. This is one of the reasons we end up finishing 6th, which in turn is why fans turn their anger upon it.
 

Kostov

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Jesse Lingard just like Cleverley and a list of other players that came through the academy will be let go as soon as we are in situation to build from a position of strength. I'd argue that even those few minutes that he played on sunday should go to Pereira. Claiming otherwise and defending the impossible does not make you a bigger fan. I don't rate him personally and don't want him even on the bench because he does not offer anything as an impact sub, Fellaini gets so much stick but he's a much better player and offers something to the team.
Even comparing him to previous squad players he comes nowhere near, Fletcher, Wes and Park? come on. Wes Brown was the best right back in the league in 2008, i loved Wes Brown, or remember how devastated i was because Fletcher missed the final against Barcelona, Fletch was an integral part of the team that time. Can you imagine Lingard having that contribution to the team ? The answer is NO.
Yes he scored goals against Leicester, Crystal Palace and Southampton but people here talk like he scored in CL finals, that should not mask his poor contribution over the season.
Anybody remember EDER who scored the goal in the European Final for Portugal? Yes a nothing player, average players sometimes hit the lucky strike. I'm thankful he scored those goals, but that's the least i'd expect from a Manchester United attacker.
 

caisenma

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Jesse Lingard just like Cleverley and a list of other players that came through the academy will be let go as soon as we are in situation to build from a position of strength. I'd argue that even those few minutes that he played on sunday should go to Pereira. Claiming otherwise and defending the impossible does not make you a bigger fan. I don't rate him personally and don't want him even on the bench because he does not offer anything as an impact sub, Fellaini gets so much stick but he's a much better player and offers something to the team.
Even comparing him to previous squad players he comes nowhere near, Fletcher, Wes and Park? come on. Wes Brown was the best right back in the league in 2008, i loved Wes Brown, or remember how devastated i was because Fletcher missed the final against Barcelona, Fletch was an integral part of the team that time. Can you imagine Lingard having that contribution to the team ? The answer is NO.
Yes he scored goals against Leicester, Crystal Palace and Southampton but people here talk like he scored in CL finals, that should not mask his poor contribution over the season.
Anybody remember EDER who scored the goal in the European Final for Portugal? Yes a nothing player, average players sometimes hit the lucky strike. I'm thankful he scored those goals, but that's the least i'd expect from a Manchester United attacker.
completely agreed. to compare lingard to players like fletcher, brown and park is an insult to those fine players.
 

ike

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^ essentially this.
Fletcher was made into a martyr after his illness. Granted he did just come off 1 great season where he worked really hard.
Anyone here remember when Keano told Fletcher off?
 

antsmithmk

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With Rooney gone, the Muppets are focused on Lingard, Fellani, Smalling and Jones.
 

golden_blunder

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^ essentially this.
Fletcher was made into a martyr after his illness. Granted he did just come off 1 great season where he worked really hard.
Anyone here remember when Keano told Fletcher off?
Yeah, Keane got the boot for it because he acted like a dick
 

ike

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Well yeah. I think the main problem is he did it live on tv interview.
Love him or hate him, Keano was never one to hold anything back! :D

Coming round full circle, Roy is the type of captain that would sort Lingard out.
Can you imagine if Roy was on the bus during Lingard's lil video stunt at West Ham last season?
 
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