I am sure I did mention their peak are over period of 6-7 years instead of 1.
Lionel Messi is OFFICIALLY the Greatest Player of all Time (CONFIRMED OFFICIAL)
- Thread starter Pexbo
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I think someone already did post that.
It`s confirmed.
Ok! The one were he takes the ball down like Davor Suker esque?
It’s in the ‘Lionel Messi | PSG Watch’ thread.
There was one, someone locked it when Ronaldo was about to overtake Messi in the poll, funny enough the same thing happened a few years ago after Ronaldo won the three CLs in a row, thread got locked just as Ronaldo hit 50-50
Ah, it just might stay locked now anyway.
They should reopen it since it spills into other threads. If people dont like it they can put it on ignore
I don't even know why it was locked originally, I think a former Argentinian mod by the name of Marcos may not have wanted Ronaldo to take the lead in the poll since both times it was when he was about to
But yeah, no one was being forced to go into the thread and it's a valid topic
Think the wind has been knocked out of its sails, captain!I don't even know why it was locked originally, I think a former Argentinian mod by the name of Marcos may not have wanted Ronaldo to take the lead in the poll since both times it was when he was about to
But yeah, no one was being forced to go into the thread and it's a valid topic
I don't know, for me 7 games where Messi won the last one in a penalty shootout doesn't settle the debate for me, I feel if you think messi's the greatest then the world cup shouldn't factor in, if he'd still scored his penalty but the other Argentinian's missed would he be any less great? Not for me. If you felt there was a debate before, then what they do at 35 and 37 doesn't really change that, the debate is about them at their peak and that's long since passed
Debate is over, long live the king!
I’m afraid he loses top spot for being a Cnut to our Wout. Can’t be having that. Shall we just all agree Pele is the goat and head for the pub?! 
I don't disagree that Ronaldo was a very good footballer, one of the best in his prime but I feel like you watched him through rose tinted glasses. Otherwise you cannot say he was as good in his prime and I'm just talking stats.
The only player who played at that level was Maradona in WC 1986.
Last edited:
I've always been pro Messi, so maybe i am biased, and you're right, i've mentioned countless times on here that 1 tournament, in a team sport shouldn't weigh as heavily but i think rightfully, was shot down. The lack of an international tournament win was always a counter against messi, even moreso after Portugal won the euros (with Ronaldo not even playing that final).
But i also understand why some "needed" Messi (or Ronaldo) to win a WC to even bring these 2 to Maradona and Pele comparisons. It wouldn't have mattered to me if Argentina lost, but it did to a lot of other people. There needs to be certain "criteria" to reach i guess.
Also, Messi just starred/dominated at a WC (& a COPA before then) at the age of 35 so how does that not "really change anything"?
I think it's particularly strange given the supposed quality of Pele's Brazil sides, i can't imagine peak Messi or Ronaldo wouldn't have won the world cup in those sides, and 7 games every 4 years holds far less weight for me than an entire career worth. I've long said they were number 1 and 2 for me all time, and international success doesn't matter that much for me, it feels like a holdover from a time when the world cup was the only televised football where people could see players from another country
Because these 7 games against Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Poland, Australia, Netherlands, Croatia and France are far less indicative of his quality than a career worth of games against real Madrid, bayern Munich, atletico, juventus, Manchester United, Manchester City etc. Apart from France, the rest of the teams aren't even close to the quality he'd face in the champions league
But then you're not factoring in the quality of the Argentinian squad either. It's not like he played those countries with prime Barca? Anyway, agree to disagree, respectfully. The debate is very much over (for me anyway) and it's strange to say what Messi has done at 35 years old is irrelevant because it doesn't fit into your definition of their "peak". Doubt we'd agree on this one, especially with belittling an achievement of winning the WC - which is essentially every players dream and seen as the epitome of the sport by most.
In terms of legacy it absolutely matters, winning the WC at 35 is a huge contribution, but as a debate about them between players 7 games, 4 of which were against weak sides doesn't change that much for me, but obviously it's huge in terms of accomplishments
Tbf, it's more than just 7 games as well. They've both had, what, 5 attempts at the WC (& various other international tournaments)? But alas, i do agree with your notion that winning/losing that final is a matter of margins/inches (Higuain scores in the 2014 final and we won't even be having the conversation etc.) and shouldn't really weigh as much as it seemingly does - over careers spanning hundreds/thousands of professional matches.
Not really. Messi is clearly the better footballer and has been for most of this era. The difference only being 'better team mates' encompasses nothing but a misguided view.
one could argue that Messi’s peak was actually at the World Cup, age 35. He was absolutely sensational.
A counter to that is that in the UCL he has also been surrounded by great teammates and even very good coaches. You can't say that for most of his Argentina career. In fact that was often used against him. That he only performs because of certain teammates. The Xavi and Iniesta jibes were a regular slight against him.
This is why this was the greatest achievement of his career. International football almost broke him. He lost 3 straight finals and retired. But to go to a world cup at 35 and dominate is unheard of.
He has generally found life easier in the UCL. He had to play the most games ever played in a world cup to just win 1.
Not at all. In his peak years he was a different beast. This was just the wc he finally won with some iconic moments(mainly those 2 assists) but 2 of his goals were quality.
I mean take his highlights and goals from the 2010-2011 season and he was just a alien.
Great achievement. Should reopen that poll since both of them are at the end of their careers.
I think his peak at International football and club football are different years.
This was definitely his peak in an Argentina shirt. He was even better than 2014 when he also won when player of the tournament.
I think it came with maturity too. He seemed to relish the pressure this time around, while in the past it almost seemed to weigh him down.
To be fair isn't Ronaldo 3 years older? And over those three years even including last season was still one of the top strikers in Europe playing against better opposition than Messi will be at PSG.Supposedly offered a monster contract by Al Nassr rivals Al Hilal. There's two funny things about that. One, he has been offered more than Cristiano, and if he were to go Cristiano will have been the highest paid player ever for a good month. The other is that he will most definitely turn down to be paid more than Cristiano, arguing that he is still very much good enough to play in Europe and doesn't need to move to Saudi Arabia. Either way Cristiano's "decision" will end up proving that Messi is the greater player, either for rejecting it as retirement league or being paid more
Not that I don't agree that it would be funny mind. Mainly because it will still wind Ronaldo up regardless. As with evergone else unfortunateenough to do so, his legacy and reputation has been genuinely tarnished by associating himself with Piers Morgan.
I think there is maturity as well, but i remember one of the pundits here in denmark saying that Argentinas present coach tried to change the mentality of the team. Before him Messi's teammates relied too much on the idea of Messi winning the wc for them, so he changed it around to have Messi's teamates winning it for Messi. They said thats why when he became coach they first played without Messi and then intergrated him into the team so it was a solid unit without him. Personally i think that mentality was obvious in the WC. Of course though Messi was without doubt the key player in the attack.
You could argue that if you never watched him play for barcleona from 2008-2019
Would seem slightly unfair to lock for about 2 years when Ronaldo had just won three champions leagues in a row then locking it again when Ronaldo was doing better last season, and only reopening it once messi's world cup win is fresh in the mind, but it's a poll in an online football forum, so I guess who really gives a feck
Seeing Messi’s career has been a delight. The guy was tearing apart Real Madrid as a teenager at the Bernabau in that Ronaldinho game.
I don’t know where his peak was, I enjoyed his early years the most though
I don’t know where his peak was, I enjoyed his early years the most though
It's still a higher level, it's playing in a team against others that are coached year round that have gelled together, so many things can affect a world cup because it all takes place over a month and then it's done, a slight knock would normally affect one round in the champions league, or a bad run of form due to personal issues or mental issues or whatever but when the whole tournament takes place over a month it makes way more of a difference, or like Maradona as manager, if that happened in the champions league, there's time to replace him between rounds when they're underwhelming which obviously won't happen midway during a world cup. That's why it holds less weight for me, I'm sure others don't agree
He was sensational when he was 19 as well. It was recurring injuries that got in his way. His dribbling was out of this world.
Of course, I am well aware that his absolute peak lies elsewhere, I just felt like your comment wasn't attaching an appropriate amount of weight to what he actually achieved at the world cup. I think when the conversation for GOAT is so tight, those 7 games are worth a lot more to his career than they probably should be.
Seems like you really really do give a feck, jm99.Would seem slightly unfair to lock for about 2 years when Ronaldo had just won three champions leagues in a row then locking it again when Ronaldo was doing better last season, and only reopening it once messi's world cup win is fresh in the mind, but it's a poll in an online football forum, so I guess who really gives a feck
I give far less of a feck than whoever locked it so their man wouldn't fall behind in the polls
Yeah i definitely remember there was a lot of talk that Messi would end up as one of the biggest what ifs in football along with a healthy r9 because it seemed he was going to spend more time on the treatment table than on the pitch, but he ended up being below average in terms of injuries during his career
That's a good point. He was their best player no doubt. But the rest of the team (Except for their two CBs) really did step it up this tournament. Their fighting spirit too was very commendable
For me the reasons you mention is what makes the world cup the harder prize and hence the biggest. It's statistically harder to win with a lot that could go wrong.
The fact that the top two UCL scorers of all time didn't have a single KO goal at the world cup between them at 4 world cups until this one also shows how difficult they both found it.
Yet the WC is not necessarily won by luck either seeing as no minnow has ever lucked their way to the title.
I think what stands out about the world cup is the pressure. Nothing in this sport comes close. And that's why the truly great players are fated for their standout performances in it. With the UCL, there's always next year.