Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United

[DSG]

There was a good video i saw last night which highlighted 3 of utds biggest deficiencies of past few seasons. 1) building up from the back 2) chance creation in final third of the pitch and 3) lack of a top quality ball winner in midfield. 1) looks like its being addressed by signings such as frenkie, martinez and malacia. 2) erikson (if he comes) and if we can land a ready to go right winger will also be addressed. 3) remains a mystery.

I think the building from the back was an issue last season only, and it was mostly due to Ralf’s shit tactics. We weren’t excellent building from the back the season before, but we weren’t total shite either.

I don’t think our CBs are weak with the ball. Maguire, Lindelof and Varane are all fine with the ball at their feet. The issue is Fred and Scotty and the movement / patterns of play. AWB has real issues as well. I think Shaw is fine in buildup play.

I do think FDJ would solve ALOT of our issues with dealing with the high press. It was the link from deep midfield to Bruno and the wingers that was a serious problem. I know there is a lot of fans who are down on Bruno, but the man has the talent to be an absolute magician on the the break and pinging through balls to our forwards. If Frenkie can get Bruno the ball with space, I like our chances.

 

[DevilRed]

So does he replace Maguire?

Big move if thats the case.

 

[altodevil]

Don't know much about this guy, what hole is he filling? Is he easily a starter for us then?

 

[DSG]

But then our other targets mentioned - Antony, Eriksen don't fit in well there. BH ut then with a back 4, we would have 4 decent CBs who would all expect to start or feature heavily.

I think Antony is not going to happen. I see that as a paper link from agents and such. “Asking price too steep” etc. But regardless, Eriksen is there as a squad option to save Bruno 60 appearances, in which case he could fit in a 3-5-2. I agree that the puzzle pieces don’t fit yet.

 

[Xaviboy]

I think the building from the back was an issue last season only, and it was mostly due to Ralf’s shit tactics. We weren’t excellent building from the back the season before, but we weren’t total shite either.

I don’t think our CBs are weak with the ball. Maguire, Lindelof and Varane are all fine with the ball at their feet. The issue is Fred and Scotty and the movement / patterns of play. AWB has real issues as well. I think Shaw is fine in buildup play.

I do think FDJ would solve ALOT of our issues with dealing with the high press. It was the link from deep midfield to Bruno and the wingers that was a serious problem. I know there is a lot of fans who are down on Bruno, but the man has the talent to be an absolute magician on the the break and pinging through balls to our forwards. If Frenkie can get Bruno the ball with space, I like our chances.

Add in Erickson there

 

[Blood Mage]

So does he replace Maguire?

Big move if thats the case.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Varane will be the player to make way. Not sure he's good enough on the ball for ETH's liking.

 

[Hoof the ball]

No chance IMO

I know it's been written as IMO for donkeys years, but it always makes me laugh how it's capitalised.

No chance IN MY OPINION

 

[DSG]

Add in Erickson there

Agree. Eriksen would also be good in the hole behind those 2 strikers.

 

[Brophs]

So does he replace Maguire?

Big move if thats the case.

Given how often Varane is unavailable and how often Maguire lapses into these sustained slumps in form, there'll be loads of games for him.

 

[Adnan]

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[TheHeya]

So who is this guy gonna be partnering in CB do we reckon?

 

[Dazzmondo]

I think the building from the back was an issue last season only, and it was mostly due to Ralf’s shit tactics. We weren’t excellent building from the back the season before, but we weren’t total shite either.

I don’t think our CBs are weak with the ball. Maguire, Lindelof and Varane are all fine with the ball at their feet. The issue is Fred and Scotty and the movement / patterns of play. AWB has real issues as well. I think Shaw is fine in buildup play.

I do think FDJ would solve ALOT of our issues with dealing with the high press. It was the link from deep midfield to Bruno and the wingers that was a serious problem. I know there is a lot of fans who are down on Bruno, but the man has the talent to be an absolute magician on the the break and pinging through balls to our forwards. If Frenkie can get Bruno the ball with space, I like our chances.

I think our build up was an issue even before last season but as you mentioned because of Scott and Fred, not our cbs who are really good on the ball imo. Because of their passing lanes constantly being blocked off, Lindelof and particularly Maguire had to keep going either wide or direct, and as you also mentioned AWB offered nothing, so literally everything came down our left side through Shaw. Not a surprise that PL defences figured out how to defend against such predictable patterns of attack. FDJ is the best player we could sign imo. He's excellent at making himself available to receive the ball in the centre, unlike McFred who constantly just allowed the opposition strikers to stand between them and our cbs. If we can add another cm who is similarly good at receiving the ball, even better.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

So who is this guy gonna be partnering in CB do we reckon?

Don’t think it’s matter who since Varane might get lot of injuries means it won’t always be varane. Could also be Maguire.

 

[DevilRed]

Given how often Varane is unavailable and how often Maguire lapses into these sustained slumps in form, there'll be loads of games for him.

If that means the end of lindelof/bailly/jones then I am glad.

Alot of money for a rotation player though.

 

[AlexUTD]

So who is this guy gonna be partnering in CB do we reckon?

Timber with Varane as backup

 

[red thru&thru]

I reckon he'll be the stop gap CDM. Of course, he'll have a few games at CB too.

 

[Van Piorsing]

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Bit convenient for Ten Hag who had Edson Alvarez doing the work while United have pretty much no one.

As things standing Martinez automatically becomes the best candidate for defensive midfield and it's hardly a discussion while Fred feels best when pushed more forward.

If McTominay won't develop anything else besides strength, Garner will displace him. We're that short in options right now..

 

[Judas]

Going by everything I've seen Ten Hag say about him, nothing makes me think he's buying him for midfield. We desperately need a DM though, and this ain't it.

 

[Brophs]

If that means the end of lindelof/bailly/jones then I am glad.

Alot of money for a rotation player though.

I agree. It wouldn't be the position I'd be most worried about. Particularly at that price. Though it might be argued that he knows at least as much as I do about football.

 

[Trex]

I think our build up was an issue even before last season but as you mentioned because of Scott and Fred, not our cbs who are really good on the ball imo. Because of their passing lanes constantly being blocked off, Lindelof and particularly Maguire had to keep going either wide or direct, and as you also mentioned AWB offered nothing, so literally everything came down our left side through Shaw. Not a surprise that PL defences figured out how to defend against such predictable patterns of attack. FDJ is the best player we could sign imo. He's excellent at making himself available to receive the ball in the centre, unlike McFred who constantly just allowed the opposition strikers to stand between them and our cbs. If we can add another cm who is similarly good at receiving the ball, even better.

Having that first receiver in midfield would alter the dynamic a lot, that's why Matic looks so great when he plays because he can receive from the defenders in the way neither Fred or Mcsause want, Fred is actually good as a second receiver where he can link up with the 10 and drive forward.
For right back Dalot is better in the phase of play and that's why all the report suggest ETH is more keen on working with him and open to the sale of Awb.
This is probably why Telles isn't fancied either because he punts the ball up pitch when under pressure, I think long term ETH would get rid of all defenders who aren't comfortable under pressure and the same would happen in midfield too.
So if we sign De Jong that would improve our ability to play through the press significantly something that would be crucial for the likes of Sancho and Bruno who wants the ball to feet in a bit of space.

 

[Red00012]

Axel/ Lindelof / Bailly / Jones As current back ups we could offload 2 if we signed a CB

 

[DevilRed]

I agree. It wouldn't be the position I'd be most worried about. Particularly at that price. Though it might be argued that he knows at least as much as I do about football.

Oh don't be so modest

 

[AndySmith1990]

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Arsenal may as well give up, if we're serious about signing him then they've no chance

 

[Dazzmondo]

Having that first receiver in midfield would alter the dynamic a lot, that's why Matic looks so great when he plays because he can receive from the defenders in the way neither Fred or Mcsause want, Fred is actually good as a second receiver where he can link up with the 10 and drive forward.
For right back Dalot is better in the phase of play and that's why all the report suggest ETH is more keen on working with him and open to the sale of Awb.
This is probably why Telles isn't fancied either because he punts the ball up pitch when under pressure, I think long term ETH would get rid of all defenders who aren't comfortable under pressure and the same would happen in midfield too.
So if we sign De Jong that would improve our ability to play through the press significantly something that would be crucial for the likes of Sancho and Bruno who wants the ball to feet in a bit of space.

Pretty much agree with all of that. Fred is definitely at his best higher up the pitch. Never wanted Telles from the moment we were first linked, I'll be happy to see the back of him.

 

[Trex]

Pretty much agree with all of that. Fred is definitely at his best higher up the pitch. Never wanted Telles from the moment we were first linked, I'll be happy to see the back of him.

I've always been fascinated by total football, the concept of playing out from the back and defending from the front is something I want to see United do always, and I'm glad we finally have a manager to implement this concepts.

 

[Frank Grimes]

So this means Timber is toast?

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

So this means Timber is toast?

Timber isn't all that. Martinez is much better than him.

 

[Dannn411]

Don't know if it's just me but I have a feeling he's being chased for his versatility more than anything. He looks like he could be a pretty good DM.

 

[Dazzmondo]

So this means Timber is toast?

I suspect he will massively regret his decision by December. I don't think Van Gaal will start him in the World Cup.

 

[DSG]

Having that first receiver in midfield would alter the dynamic a lot, that's why Matic looks so great when he plays because he can receive from the defenders in the way neither Fred or Mcsause want, Fred is actually good as a second receiver where he can link up with the 10 and drive forward.
For right back Dalot is better in the phase of play and that's why all the report suggest ETH is more keen on working with him and open to the sale of Awb.
This is probably why Telles isn't fancied either because he punts the ball up pitch when under pressure, I think long term ETH would get rid of all defenders who aren't comfortable under pressure and the same would happen in midfield too.
So if we sign De Jong that would improve our ability to play through the press significantly something that would be crucial for the likes of Sancho and Bruno who wants the ball to feet in a bit of space.

I agree with a lot of this with the exception of Dalot. I’m fascinated to see what ETH does with RB. I think Dalot is a disaster as a defender. So easy to turn, he’s not agile, frequently out of position and gambles frequently and doesn’t have the pace to do so. I agree he’s better going forward than AWB, but I think Dalot’s almost impossible to play in a back 4. Telles equally bad defensively. Again, FDJ solves a lot of problems.

 

[lysglimt]

Martinez is a strange one for me - I will be the first to admit I haven't watched him enough to really make up my mind about him, but even after I watch youtube-videos .. I still can't figure out what he is good at. Normally in these brag-videos - they show the good and leave out the bad - which makes the player look a lot better than he is. But Martinez' bragging-videos aren't that impressive - and maybe that is his strength ?

He isn't tall - not very good in the air, not exceptionally quick and doesn't appear to be physically very strong. So what is it he does better than most other defenders ? Positioning ? Hope someone can help me answer this....

 

[TrebleChamp99]

I suspect he will massively regret his decision by December. I don't think Van Gaal will start him in the World Cup.

My thoughts as well, I think Martinez was a big part of his success playing at CB and with him gone who picks up that role.

 

[Canuckred64]

So this means Timber is toast?

We could always go back for him in January if we still want him.

 

[DWelbz19]

He isn't tall - not very good in the air, not exceptionally quick and doesn't appear to be physically very strong. So what is it he does better than most other defenders ? Positioning ? Hope someone can help me answer this....

It’s hardly the Da Vinci code, mate. He’s a really good ball playing CB.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Martinez is a strange one for me - I will be the first to admit I haven't watched him enough to really make up my mind about him, but even after I watch youtube-videos .. I still can't figure out what he is good at. Normally in these brag-videos - they show the good and leave out the bad - which makes the player look a lot better than he is. But Martinez' bragging-videos aren't that impressive - and maybe that is his strength ?

He isn't tall - not very good in the air, not exceptionally quick and doesn't appear to be physically very strong. So what is it he does better than most other defenders ? Positioning ? Hope someone can help me answer this....

Watch his comp vs Haaland , he’s a quick decisive CB and extremely good at putting his foot in at the right time. His passing ability is extremely good too, he is very comfortable at moving the ball quickly between the lines and under pressure.

Maguire does his three wades forward then launch a ball out of play , this guy is popping the ball off to the midfielder, dropping into space for the return and popping it off again with sharpness.

he would completely transform how we play out. Defensively he’s a stopper In that his strength is In one on one duels. How he is vs the aeries threatmail be interesting.

 

[Trex]

I agree with a lot of this with the exception of Dalot. I’m fascinated to see what ETH does with RB. I think Dalot is a disaster as a defender. So easy to turn, he’s not agile, frequently out of position and gambles frequently and doesn’t have the pace to do so. I agree he’s better going forward than AWB, but I think Dalot’s almost impossible to play in a back 4. Telles equally bad defensively. Again, FDJ solves a lot of problems.

I don't see Dalot as a RB with a very high ceiling but I feel he can be a good system player, just like say Zinchenko at City, not great but can do a job in the system.
Dalot can pass with either feet and is compose under pressure, he isn't afraid of having the ball and attempting even difficult passes with decent execution.
He isn't the greatest 1v1 defender but is tenacious and presses very well. In a side that attempts to keep possession and defend from the front that is usable if not ideal.
We wouldn't solve all our problems at once so a good "system player" is a good tool to the manager.

This is derailing this thread now.

 

[dwd]

So this means Timber is toast?

No, it’s wood.

 

[Trex]

Martinez is a strange one for me - I will be the first to admit I haven't watched him enough to really make up my mind about him, but even after I watch youtube-videos .. I still can't figure out what he is good at. Normally in these brag-videos - they show the good and leave out the bad - which makes the player look a lot better than he is. But Martinez' bragging-videos aren't that impressive - and maybe that is his strength ?

He isn't tall - not very good in the air, not exceptionally quick and doesn't appear to be physically very strong. So what is it he does better than most other defenders ? Positioning ? Hope someone can help me answer this....

He is exceptionally good on a distributing the ball and he's left footed something managers who like to play out from the back fancy because it adds to the dynamic having a left footer as the left center back.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I’m guessing we won’t be going for Antony then, surely Ajax won’t sell 2 of their main first team players to us.

or maybe they will.

 

[swedishgloryhunter]

I’m guessing we won’t be going for Antony then, surely Ajax won’t sell 2 of their main first team players to us.

or maybe they will.

The reliable dutch sources are saying we won't as the price is 80m euro.