It can as I think, but it needs a well drilled system able to protect or contest the second and third ball. Still, shit will happen and he could be bullied. I still remember the game Blind is bullied by a long ball and they scored. Jose stopped playing him with Smalling since then, if my memory is not distorted.
Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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According to WhoScored, which tracked all 1911 minutes Lisandro played in the Eredivisie, he won 3.3 aerial duels and lost 1.4 per game. For comparison, Timber won 1.5 and lost 1.0. Van Dijk won 3.4 and lost 1.0.
I felt Timber's quality on the ball was more exciting but if ETH thinks highly of this fellow can only hope he's great.
You said it, shit will happen. We won't have it our own way week in week out in this league. The division is becoming more and more stacked with good players throughout the league as everyone has money. There will be games where possession is even and our defence gets pushed back. Or a simple long ball gets nodded down by Soucek for Antonio to run onto. This is why even the most elite teams have tall CB's.
He's a decent source.
5.4 aerial duel contested shows he likes to get involved in aerial duel a lot in eredivisie. He doesn’t hide in aerial duel involvement. And he won it 70%.
Problem with that is the difference in level of opposition.5.4 aerial duel contested shows he likes to get involved in aerial duel a lot in eredivisie. He doesn’t hide in aerial duel involvement. And he won it 70%.
Timber in the same league and taller but doesn’t get involved in aerial duel. Look at Lindelof in benfica. This is just part of the player’s nature.
Mentions of toast in threads about left footed CBs brings back bad memories.
Was likely our first choice but decided to stay
I think people are to fixated on set positions. Martinez might start as the DM but sit back with the centre backs and allowing both fullbacks to push on, or he might start in a back three but be the "stopper" who pushes forward to close down attacks. We really don't know what the idea behind him is.
He will be our Kante.
ETH Quote in January 2021:
ESPN. "In bepaalde wedstrijden zou het wel kunnen, maar Daley heeft niet het loopvermogen om op het middenveld te spelen. En Martínez ook niet. Ze zijn gewoon het beste van achteruit, als linker centrumverdediger."
Translation:
"Daley is not a midfield player," the trainer at ESPN said . "It could be in certain games, but Daley doesn't have the running ability to play in midfield. And neither does Martínez. They're just the best from the back, as a left centre-back."
https://www.fcupdate.nl/voetbalnieu...en-martinez-geen-opties-zijn-voor-middenveld/
ESPN. "In bepaalde wedstrijden zou het wel kunnen, maar Daley heeft niet het loopvermogen om op het middenveld te spelen. En Martínez ook niet. Ze zijn gewoon het beste van achteruit, als linker centrumverdediger."
Translation:
"Daley is not a midfield player," the trainer at ESPN said . "It could be in certain games, but Daley doesn't have the running ability to play in midfield. And neither does Martínez. They're just the best from the back, as a left centre-back."
https://www.fcupdate.nl/voetbalnieu...en-martinez-geen-opties-zijn-voor-middenveld/
And i will be the next SAF
My hope is this turns out to be an example of the power of data analytics in football. At first glance a player who seems unlikely to be much use he has been successful in. Whereas the stats paint a very different picture that you wouldn't ever associate with a CB under 6 foot.
I've only skimmed this thread here and there, but has anyone brought up Javier Mascherano? About the same size and physique, Argie and did a pretty fine job at CB.
This is always the case for Ajax.. Ongoingly.. Bar the names this is probably true 9/10 summers..
No one who sees him play regularly would ever say it is unlikely he will be much use for United... this guy is a monster defensively and has great control of the ball and has a great long pass.. No one who sees him play regularly would need data to back that up..
Only people that scare because of the height of his Wikipedia profile would find some hope and solace in data...
I have just watched quite a bit of footage on him (YouTube obviously) and I must admit he is very impressive.
I cannot really see any weaknesses in his game as I thought defending from set pieces would be an issue but he seems alright aerially and has really good positional sense which is the main thing IMO.
I hope we get him!
I cannot really see any weaknesses in his game as I thought defending from set pieces would be an issue but he seems alright aerially and has really good positional sense which is the main thing IMO.
I hope we get him!
He never played CB in the Premier League though. I think a better comparison is Evra, who had a great leap and could certainly hold his own, but I definitely remember him occasionally getting beat in the air because the other guy jumped first or at the same time and simply got on top of him. Losing headers at CB is much riskier.
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Weren't the bids supposed to be the same ?
afcstuff used to be quite reliable but there is nothing on that account timeline and since they've been "bought" by Sportbible it's gone downhill.
Anyway feels more and more like he's going to United and Arsenal will look elsewhere.
Perfect. We’ll be back on track in no time.
Yeah it felt like Timber was our first choice until he turned us down. I hope we're not rushing into this transfer.
I think the guaranteed fee is the same, but United are more willing to add bigger and easily achievable add ons
Thats interesting stats as he has won lots more aerial duels than Torres, who is 6 ft 3.5.4 aerial duel contested shows he likes to get involved in aerial duel a lot in eredivisie. He doesn’t hide in aerial duel involvement. And he won it 70%.
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I am wondering maybe its his positioning/anticipation/aggressiveness/jumping which makes him wins alot of ariel duels?
Below is his performance vs Liverpool in CL. He won quite a few ariels duels there:
Below is his performance vs Liverpool in CL. He won quite a few ariels duels there:
That must pretty much be it.
Baresi and in similar vain Canaveral weren't particularly the tallest but their impeccable sense of timing and great leads made the quite formidable in such duels.
If we are buying him to rotate then it might make sense. Especially if victor, bailly and jones might be heading for the exit door.
But I hope this doesn’t prevent us from affording a striker/right sided forward.
But I hope this doesn’t prevent us from affording a striker/right sided forward.
I'm more excited about this guy.
I don't know exactly why but there was something about timber which turned me off believing he won't make it.
How much are you willing to bet?
Yep, rubbish. Can keep it nicely for Ajax in the tippy tappy league but won't be able in the PL."Perfect profile for a possession based team"
Interesting as according to @Olecurls99 who claims to have watched Martinez many times he's shite on the ball and boots it away under pressure.
Eh he did way better than any of our defenders in that highlight reel above against Pool. In fact if that's his standard, I think he'll do extremely well in the PL.
Yeah I looked at that. He gave the ball away needlessly a lot in that video. In a lot of those instances Varane would have kept the ball because winning a header while great because your small, isn't actually very useful if you're just putting it back in the air.
I don't know what was so impressive about that performance at all. If he wins a duel it's usually just to cede possession right away. He then played some short passes under minimal pressure.
I'm also seeing Minamino in that video so it wasn't a full strength Liverpool either.
I hope you will still be here in a couple months when he has proved you wrong...
Hm most of the top six don't lump it forward to the strikers, so general defensive attributes + composure on the ball are what we need in those games. One consideration with guys who aren't good in the air is general physical strength. Does he get outmuscled by attackers easily?
The stats seem .. bad, so I'd love to know.
Dribblers tackled 98th percentile, Dribbles contested 98th percentile, Dribbled past 12th percentile.
Pressures 71st percentile, Successful Pressures 36th percentile, Successful pressure percent 1st percentile.
Yikes, this is almost like a Fred in defence.
Outside the top six:
Guys like Jimenez, Toney, Antonio, DCL, Wood might give him some trouble in aerial duels. I'm trying to find specific situations where his lack of height is troublesome.
Balls lumped forward in the general direction of the striker aren't very accurate a lot of the time. Even if they are, the key is to win the second ball rather than the initial aerial duel. During goal kicks he will have support around him.
Might get out muscled with crosses into the box from LW. Again these aren't extremely accurate and maybe we'll concede 2-3 goals this season as a result of him being out jumped by guys like Chris Wood. Makes a bad highlight reel but worth the trade-off if it results in better on the ball performance for the whole season.
that has to be one of the most misinformed views on Martinez I have seen here
Likewise
Actually I think passing is one of his strength. Below is his performance vs Nunez and Haaland in CL, two of the physically strongest forward today. Anyway this may gives us an early idea of how he is going to come up against the likes of City and Liverpool main CF next season.
I hope we're not signing him because of these videos. Ajax are beating Dortmund 4-0 in one of them. Hardly a good reference point
Also in both these videos I'm seeing him boot or head the ball away when there's a chance to keep it. Because he's a little guy heading the ball people are impressed but a good defender finds a teammate in these circumstances. He's also very slow and he resorts to fouling when he's caught up against a quick attacker.
Varane is miles better lads. Miles better
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Can he play as a defensive mid too?
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