I don't think things are as bad as some are saying. We saw against Arsenal that with Coutinho in the mix they are still more than competitive. Benteke has given them another dimension and will prove his worth.
Liverpool : General discussion
- Thread starter Yorkeontop
- Start date
Take this thread over to RAWK
They need Henderson back and Coutinho basically is 75% of their creativity. Winning away at Stoke was a good win and 0-0 away against Arsenal also showed that they have the potential to be solid and grind oud draws or wins.
Feck Liverpool
I honestly don't think that Henderson and Coutinho would have made a difference on Saturday. They will against weaker opponents, but they're not enough to challenge the big boys. A fully fit Sturridge is honestly the only player I'd have from them.
Rodgers is their biggest problem right now. I think he could still be a decent manager, but his ego will always get in the way.
They'll finish somewhere from 5th-7th again. Close enough to feel relevant but far off enough to not actually be. And they will continue in this vein until they either get a top-class manager or unearth another superstar of Suarez's calibre. Unfortunately for Liverpool, the oil clubs' spending, United's own financial might, and Wenger's nous have doomed them to mediocrity.
What's the obsession with Coutinho on this forum? He scores a cracker now and then but in those games he generally goes missing for the entire 90 minutes. He's no where near as good as people make him out to be.
As for Liverpool I can see them really struggling to finish 5th, they're the worst Liverpool side in years.
As for Liverpool I can see them really struggling to finish 5th, they're the worst Liverpool side in years.
Coutinho and sturridge in the side would make them more dangerous going forward. But when i look at the rest of their starting eleven, and at their squad as a whole, they have way too many average players.
Their midfield doenst look like it can dominate a game, cover defensively or create going forward. Their defense looks to be all over the place as well. They need coutinho and sturridge fit and firing all season to challenge for top 4, imo.
Their midfield doenst look like it can dominate a game, cover defensively or create going forward. Their defense looks to be all over the place as well. They need coutinho and sturridge fit and firing all season to challenge for top 4, imo.
Coutinho, Sturridge and Henderson would have made a difference, but they are still not good enough. Sturridge will always be injury prone, their central midfield is not good enough and Coutinho is fantastic on his day, but that isnt always the case. They dont get the best out of Benteke too. Firmino is still new and looks shite so far. Their central defenders are a shambles. The only positives so far were the two fullbacks and Coutinho, the rest underperformed. They will miss out on top 4 again.
I don't get it either. I find him way too inconsistent to be discussed in the terms he is on this forum.
Coutinho didn't have much impact at home vs West Ham bar getting sent off so their problems on Saturday weren't entirely due to his absence. However I accept he is their best player and a lot of their creativity goes through him but I think his ability is exaggerated by those surrounding him, if you're playing in a midfield with Milner, Henderson, Can, Lucas etc it's not difficult to look bright and flashy.
Like Neville was saying last night, it's well beyond the point now that Liverpool can roll out the "if Sturridge was fit" line, you simply can't rely or plan for him in the side let alone build a team round him when he consistently gets injured for lengthy periods. They'd be far better focusing their attention on getting the best out of Benteke. However that in itself has been made more difficult with the existence of just 1 winger in the squad (a winger in Ibe with only a handful of PL games).
The midifeld is too steady for its own good, a midfield 2 of Hendo and Milner is just plain and their CDM options continue to be a blind spot for Rodgers, Lucas really? Defence is the biggest issue I think and the less said about Mignolet the better.
They're not as bad as we like to make out, only 3 points behind us at this stage but I don't see them being anywhere near the top 4 come May as the whole squad just looks well.. average. One look at their bench on Saturday only confirms that.
Like Neville was saying last night, it's well beyond the point now that Liverpool can roll out the "if Sturridge was fit" line, you simply can't rely or plan for him in the side let alone build a team round him when he consistently gets injured for lengthy periods. They'd be far better focusing their attention on getting the best out of Benteke. However that in itself has been made more difficult with the existence of just 1 winger in the squad (a winger in Ibe with only a handful of PL games).
The midifeld is too steady for its own good, a midfield 2 of Hendo and Milner is just plain and their CDM options continue to be a blind spot for Rodgers, Lucas really? Defence is the biggest issue I think and the less said about Mignolet the better.
They're not as bad as we like to make out, only 3 points behind us at this stage but I don't see them being anywhere near the top 4 come May as the whole squad just looks well.. average. One look at their bench on Saturday only confirms that.
truthfully before that set piece goal from blind, the game was 50-50
Before that goal they had 10 men behind the ball. We did little with our possession, but it was hardly 50/50. They were far worse than us in that first half, somehow.
Add me to this list.
Absolutely no way. It was 50-50 only in the sense that neither had scored a goal, but United had created the only chances (which Fellaini's poor touch messed up) and were dominating the game. If Liverpool had scored it would have been very much against the run of play.
Not at all. We were the dominant side by far and we're controlling the game without creating anything clear cut. They were just camped with 10 men behind the ball.
In the first half against us they were shockingly bad. Okay we aren't the easist opponent to come up against but still they managed to look worse than anything we have presented all season long and that's quite an achievement.
I'd agree with that, and would dismiss claims of Utd controlling the 1st half by pointing out that with absolutely nothing happening, these claims are worthless.
So, a one half game that based on chances & quality of chances we were a bit fortunate to win 3-1. But I haven't seen massive amounts of triumphalism on here either, so tend to think the undercurrent is that we will take the win and move on.
They are very cheesed off having lost and using it as a stick to beat the Manager with. Are they right? Or possibly a better question, is it possible they are wrong? They don't have a bad run of games coming up. Will Brendan get away with the obvious liabilities of GK & CBs, why can't he see it?
The MF is solid enough, if the defence was better, it could look forward and support more. The point about width is a good one, I might include Moreno as being able to provide some but BR won't now play him at LB (he's right, imo) but probably wont alter the system to get him in at ML either.
I'd be amazed if he gets away with persisting with Mings, Lovren & Skrtel. But they could win the next few games.
It's all very confusing.
Our passing was atrocious against you lot, like passes no more than 10 yards going to the opposition. There was also just someting very lethargic about our general play too, We need to play with more urgency otherwise were quite easy to contain and predict, it wasnt untill we were 2 nil down that we showed any kind of response. My hope is that it was down to coming off the international break cos if we can't motivate ourselves for a game against Man United then we've no hope.
He's been quite consistent this season (if you can say that about a four game streak though) and I expect/hope that trend to continue itself after his ban. Didn't go missing at Arsenal at all, he was our best player on the field that day. He's not as good as some might say on here, but it's true that our midfield is completely bereft of ideas if he's not playing and that's what makes him so important for our team. Either way, I don't think he would've made the difference yesterday, I couldn't watch the game and obviously don't want to see it again in whole but what we really need is a new manager, ffs. I'm almost at the point where I want us to go on a losing streak so that Rodgers is well and truly out before December, unfortunately I can't see it happening.
As for the bolded part, that's absolutely not true. We've upgraded a lot of positions this summer. It's just that we don't look particularly better than we did last year and that is, again, down to the manager.
We were well in control but the Fellaini experiment was failing and Memphis was struggling. Liverpool's set up was cowardly.
Are every team that improve on their 1st half display fortunate in that case? LVG made a good sub in Young and Pool had to come out to play after the Blind goal, which allowed us to show our quality over them. Yeah, we could be creating even more chances, but calling it fortunate is bullshit.
I think you meant to say 0-0.
I might have to backtrack from '50/50' slightly cos it wasn't a level game exactly but precious little 'control' that was generating any meaningful offensive action.
Really wasn't.
To be fair, we're extremely cautious with the ball so it's hard to see how they couldn't put men behind the ball. Short of playing 1 2s between De Gea and Smalling, I don't know how we could be more cautious. I think most teams will just sit back and watch us bore everyone to death first.
I'd agree though. We had control but weren't doing anything with it. Once the second half became more open, it was clear we were the better side.
What I would say is that Liverpool are supposedly trying to play a possession game and they have Benteke up front and defenders who can't really play. If anyone looked like they were going to set us up for a goal in the first half, it was Mignolet. I don't know the ins and outs of their transfer policy but maybe they're looking at the sell on value of each player rather than what he can bring to the team? And their midfield was seriously inferior. It's easy to say in hindsight but I wouldn't have taken anyone of their midfield players ahead of one of ours when I saw the lineup.
Well... again, fortunate might have a slight tendency to 'bullshit', but & because, we put our chances in the goal and they didn't. They did have some decent chances.
There's already a general discussion thread about Liverpool isn't there?
That's a far better description is 0-0, we had the better pointless possession and marginally more potential to actually threaten the olde onion bag in a tedious dull shit on a stick 0-0.
Which is different from 50/50.
That's the Alternative Wishful Thinking Upside Down League Table thread though.
I think most of us are in agreement that LVG still hasn't found an effective way to best a parked bus. SAF used to do it with pace and trickery, but this team is the opposite at the moment aside from a moment of magic from Depay or Martial, who should not be expected to deliver consistently at their age. When teams play us though, you can see we're becoming a great team.
This is what they say about us all the time, let's not fall into the same trap
And is it really true? I vaguely remember a team/squad which included players like Kyrgiakos, Konchesky, Poulsen, Spearing, N'Gog, Carroll, Jovanovic, Adam, Downing and whatnot.
This probably belongs to the weird feelings thread but it seems like Lucas has been out of favour and on the verge of leaving Liverpool for what feels like forever but ends up being a starter all the same and fouling people all over the place.
I am really surprise how Liverpool set up against us.
I was not expecting that from Liverpool.
It was similar tactic which Newcastle United use against us, the different is our player wearing shooting boots.
I was not expecting that from Liverpool.
It was similar tactic which Newcastle United use against us, the different is our player wearing shooting boots.
Their problems are at the back. While Sakho is liable to mistakes and very clumsy on the ball at times, he's still their best defender. Skrtel is too rash and can get turned easily and Lovren is a bang average defender, Gomez is too young to play consistently at CB however he does look a top talent while Moreno is terrible defensively.
They needed to invest in a CM and CB this summer if they were to of had any chance of challenging for the top four IMO. Milner and Henderson are decent-good players and can look great alongside top players but Liverpool don't have that in CM. Can and Lucas are ok but nothing special.
If you look at their signings since 2005. Mark Gonzalez, Zenden, Sissoko, Jan Kromkamp, Daniel Agger (always "potential", few good spells but always injured), Paletta, Pennant, Voronin, Babel, Degen, Dossena, N'Gog, Robbie Keane, Albert Riera, Alberto Aquilani, Sotiros Kyriagkos, Joe Cole, Danny Wilson, Christian Poulsen, Raul Merieles, Paul Konchesky, Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Charlie Adam, Jose Enrique, Sebastian Coates, Fabio Borini, Joe Allen, Assaidi, L Alberto, Aspas, Illori, Lambert, Markovic, Lovren and Balotelli. That's a staggering amount of dross and flops brought in who contributed very little. If you consider the fee's paid for some of those players it's utter madness how much they have squandered in 10 years. In 2-3 years, Lallana, Sakho and Moreno could easily be added to that list with the starts they have made, Lallana for me will never be a £25m player.
In that period, their good buys were Reina, Bellamy, Dirk Kuyt, Alvaro Arbeloa, Javier Mascherano, Lucas, Fernando Torres, Yossi Benayoun, Martin Skrtel, Glen Johnson, Luis Suarez, Jordan Henderson, Jordan Ibe, Sturridge and Coutinho. Argubably Bellamy was average/good for Liverpool as was Benayoun. Skrtel and Johnson only made it on to that list due to their longetivity and a few good spells but neither have ever been top four players for me.
Compare to United Anderson, Hargreaves, Tosic, Obertan, Diouf, Bebe, Jones, Powell, Kagawa, Buttner, Zaha, Di Maria.
Park, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Nani, Tevez, Rafael, Berbatov, Valencia, Smalling, Owen (questionable?), Hernandez, Young, De Gea, RvP, J Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Blind.
Obviously too early to judge the likes of Benteke, Depay etc but if you compare United's dealing with Liverpool then there's a massive difference there. Liverpool needed to make their £20m purchases count to close the gap, they had to be top class players or ones that could develop further but there's too many who have failed for big money i.e. Carroll, Downing, Balotelli etc. I know some fans may point to fact we have spent a lot of money but take out Di Maria then there's not too much difference, it's only the last year or so where we have spent stupid amounts of money on players starting with Juan Mata.
They needed to invest in a CM and CB this summer if they were to of had any chance of challenging for the top four IMO. Milner and Henderson are decent-good players and can look great alongside top players but Liverpool don't have that in CM. Can and Lucas are ok but nothing special.
If you look at their signings since 2005. Mark Gonzalez, Zenden, Sissoko, Jan Kromkamp, Daniel Agger (always "potential", few good spells but always injured), Paletta, Pennant, Voronin, Babel, Degen, Dossena, N'Gog, Robbie Keane, Albert Riera, Alberto Aquilani, Sotiros Kyriagkos, Joe Cole, Danny Wilson, Christian Poulsen, Raul Merieles, Paul Konchesky, Andy Carroll, Stewart Downing, Charlie Adam, Jose Enrique, Sebastian Coates, Fabio Borini, Joe Allen, Assaidi, L Alberto, Aspas, Illori, Lambert, Markovic, Lovren and Balotelli. That's a staggering amount of dross and flops brought in who contributed very little. If you consider the fee's paid for some of those players it's utter madness how much they have squandered in 10 years. In 2-3 years, Lallana, Sakho and Moreno could easily be added to that list with the starts they have made, Lallana for me will never be a £25m player.
In that period, their good buys were Reina, Bellamy, Dirk Kuyt, Alvaro Arbeloa, Javier Mascherano, Lucas, Fernando Torres, Yossi Benayoun, Martin Skrtel, Glen Johnson, Luis Suarez, Jordan Henderson, Jordan Ibe, Sturridge and Coutinho. Argubably Bellamy was average/good for Liverpool as was Benayoun. Skrtel and Johnson only made it on to that list due to their longetivity and a few good spells but neither have ever been top four players for me.
Compare to United Anderson, Hargreaves, Tosic, Obertan, Diouf, Bebe, Jones, Powell, Kagawa, Buttner, Zaha, Di Maria.
Park, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Nani, Tevez, Rafael, Berbatov, Valencia, Smalling, Owen (questionable?), Hernandez, Young, De Gea, RvP, J Mata, Herrera, Shaw, Blind.
Obviously too early to judge the likes of Benteke, Depay etc but if you compare United's dealing with Liverpool then there's a massive difference there. Liverpool needed to make their £20m purchases count to close the gap, they had to be top class players or ones that could develop further but there's too many who have failed for big money i.e. Carroll, Downing, Balotelli etc. I know some fans may point to fact we have spent a lot of money but take out Di Maria then there's not too much difference, it's only the last year or so where we have spent stupid amounts of money on players starting with Juan Mata.
I think BR's trying not to lose games, rather than proactively seeking wins, as he might fear for his job.
I think you are right, but still it still look so strange, may be its because I never seen them player in such way against us.
Am I understanding this right? You think these were all successful buys?
As I said in the other thread; you take out 2 unbelievable individual strikes from Coutinho & Benteke (goals that you see maybe 3-4 times a season from any team) and a goal wrongly given that was 3 yards offside and you have a team that's played 5 and not scored. You then look at the goals conceded and two perfectly good goals for Arsenal & Bournemouth were disallowed. They could easily be 0/8 in terms of goals.
In what I'd class as a normal season they'd be sitting on 1-2 points and be bottom of the league. Since they beat Swansea 1-0 on 16th March they've gotten 16 points from 14 fixtures and that's including the aforementioned incredibly lucky 5 points vs Bournemouth/Stoke.
In what I'd class as a normal season they'd be sitting on 1-2 points and be bottom of the league. Since they beat Swansea 1-0 on 16th March they've gotten 16 points from 14 fixtures and that's including the aforementioned incredibly lucky 5 points vs Bournemouth/Stoke.
Last edited: