Kessie is no better than McTominay.
Lorenzo Pellegrini & Franck Kessie - United Quality?
- Thread starter Valar Morghulis
- Start date
To whom? If it's regarding Spinazzola then was just a passing comment on how I thought he played before the injury, we are pretty stacked at LB these days.
Yeah on Spinazzola. He's done better this season at least going forward, but he was a big waste of money last season and hes not a good defender. He's one of those players who looks a bit fancy on the ball, very confident and can do some stepovers and stuff but he thinks he's a star player while at best he's fairly good and doesn't do everything the team needs him to do without the ball.
I guess there is a reason I have barely heard of him and how not to judge a player on one game, let alone 30 minutes. Roma looked a bombshell defensively as soon as we scored to be honest.
Better on the ball in deeper positions I would say.
But I get your drift. Scott is a good player though.
He was only particularly impressive for 45 minutes out of the two matches IMO.
The only thing that McTominay is better at is his aerial and ground duel since McTominay is much taller and also better tackler. However, On the ball, Kessie offers more than McTominay because he can hold the ball better and better in take on people which also reflects to better ball control & dribble.
Kessie plays in Serie A, McTominay in Premier League. The intensity is much higher in PL. You should take that into consideration in your rating.
Stats are helpful but they are not always the best thing to compare players from different leagues.
I agree. But that’s the only thing we have to judge player with player.
Eye test. Though i‘d agree that Kessie looks quite good and could be better for us than McTominay. But imo too much of a risk and not certain enough for the price he‘d cost. We habe bigger issues, McTominay is one of our own and improved a lot from year to year. So i‘d trust him and prioritize other positions (rw...)
I have watched Kessie not just in EL but in Serie A because some Milan fans that I know have hyped him. And my eye test tells me he is better than McTominay. But are people going to buy/trust my eye test? That's why the stats help you to cut bit of bias on my eye test saying he's better on the ball and hold up play is better and then I added the word ''also'' to show the stats is ''also'' on the same page as my eye test.
His stats show he clearly is better in most categories.
Ultimately one game isn't really enough to say much, every single week a poor side will have a player that stands out against us, we wouldn't necessarily be queuing up to sign said players. People who have seen a lot of Kessie seem less impressed than I was with his performance against us, I thought he looked very good on the ball.
I didn't really see the big deal about Pellegrini, a couple of nice moments, but his team was fairly useless, he didn't do much outside moments. He's one you would scout if we weren't already but nothing jumped out.
I didn't really see the big deal about Pellegrini, a couple of nice moments, but his team was fairly useless, he didn't do much outside moments. He's one you would scout if we weren't already but nothing jumped out.
Kessie being super overrated by some based on a couple of games. He’s pretty average. Pellegrini is a talent but not a game changing one. Neither look as good as VdB did before he came. To upgrade on McTominay we need a better player the Kessie, with whom the difference is marginal at best. If McTomjnay went to Serie A he’d be getting rave reviews and his statistical performance would elevate.
Stats are very useful but should be used with extreme caution when assessing players from the BL, Serie A, Eredvisie etc.
Stats are very useful but should be used with extreme caution when assessing players from the BL, Serie A, Eredvisie etc.
No to Kessie. Not seen much of Pellegrini.
The other Milan midfielder I might be obliged to say yes to, though.
Can't remember his name.
Pretty sure he was injured during the ties against us.
The other Milan midfielder I might be obliged to say yes to, though.
Can't remember his name.
Pretty sure he was injured during the ties against us.
Yeah eye test was wrong. Actually wanted to state that you have to watch the player and take into consideration that he plays against opponents on a way lower level. Serie A is in its worst state since years. Just look how all their teams did in international competition and compare with Premier League. So just because a player has a bit better stats or looks better in Serie A i wouldn't say he is better than the Premier League player with slightly worse stats.
So yeah i'd agree that Kessie looks better on eye test/stats than McTominay but it doesn't convince me that he is better because he does it against worse opposition. I would not say that Scott is better but Kessie is not a certain upgrade on him in my opinion. But of course unless Kessie plays in Premier League we will never know.
Aren't Kessie and McTominay reasonably different players? I know Kessie played with Meite who looked to be doing a lot of defensive work (and really did not impress me) but he seemed to me to be quite impressive in deep areas with his build up play. He got forward on occasion showing some versatility to his play but the most notable thing was his build up in the first leg and how they went through him, albeit we were appalling.
Whereas I wouldn't put that down as a favoured area of McTominays game. He's much better when he's got some space to move into, when he can get around the pitch. He's not the best at handling the ball in deeper areas unless there's a real possibility he can burst past someone and set us away, you don't really want him dictating our passing game. In fact I prefer Fred handling the ball in those areas so McTominay can play more directly.
So whether he's better or not, we possibly could still have an opening for such a player.
Whereas I wouldn't put that down as a favoured area of McTominays game. He's much better when he's got some space to move into, when he can get around the pitch. He's not the best at handling the ball in deeper areas unless there's a real possibility he can burst past someone and set us away, you don't really want him dictating our passing game. In fact I prefer Fred handling the ball in those areas so McTominay can play more directly.
So whether he's better or not, we possibly could still have an opening for such a player.
I actually disagree with this. Using only stats is wrong because you can't see the difference in the league level. But using eye test is right because you can judge whether it is the opposition players are just shite or the player himself has talent.
Kessie is no 8 playing in double pivot like McT and Fred. Kessie plays with deep playmaker, Bennacer. I don't know who Meite is.
Double no from me. I like Kessie better actually but I don’t think he’s what we need.
Pellegrini isn't going anywhere, he's Roma through and through and is set to become their next Totti / De Rossi.
If that was the case this and this Bennacer character played then I cannot remember any of his contribution to the game.
He was injured and didn't play vs us. Kessie, Bennacer, Hakan & Theo are the top four most important players in Milan's team this season plus Zlatan or Calabria as 5th. But those four are the ones that must play and barely rotated when available.
Have we been linked to either of these recently? I know there was some getting gassed up about Kessie after the first leg we played against Milan but the rumours that followed had him linked to Chelsea as part of Milan's interest in making Tomori a permanent transfer.
And how can you say that he would also look that good in a better league? There are many examples who looked great in smaller leagues and suddenly didn't look that good in Premier League.
Of course you can judge that Kessie has talent, has nice stats in Serie A and looks good on the eye test. But i think McTominay would also look better in Serie A than he does in PL and for me the difference is not that big between them. I would not swap Kessie with McTominay right now as the improvement from McTominay impresses me and with Kessie there is a lot of uncertainity. I have seen him struggling with opponents that he can't bully that easy with his body.
I'd take Kessie as swap for Dalot though
How can I say that? Because I have constantly watch PL and also some of Serie A games, this will make easier for us to understand whether the player can play in PL or no. If I don't know anything about PL then I can't say it. For example, I don't watch La Liga constantly so I can't judge Kessie playing for La Liga teams or La Liga manager. I can judge La Liga & Serie A players playing for certain team/manager in PL or PL as I have the knowledge about PL as long as I watch and understand the player's style and habit.And how can you say that he would also look that good in a better league? There are many examples who looked great in smaller leagues and suddenly didn't look that good in Premier League.
Of course you can judge that Kessie has talent, has nice stats in Serie A and looks good on the eye test. But i think McTominay would also look better in Serie A than he does in PL and for me the difference is not that big between them. I would not swap Kessie with McTominay right now as the improvement from McTominay impresses me and with Kessie there is a lot of uncertainity. I have seen him struggling with opponents that he can't bully that easy with his body.
I'd take Kessie as swap for Dalot though
But then again team's playing style is also more important than the league itself and I must say Kessie's style suits Ole's double pivot style. Physical, direct, top class attitude and high work rate & energy.
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According to the Mirror (I know) Pellegrini is out of contract next year and so currently has a release clause of £24 million... which would be an absolute steal if true.
Pellegrini was good last night. He'll be the player Jose will build his team around.