Louis van Gaal's tactics

[NK86]

Right, and the sort of knee-jerk reactions we're seeing here are worthwhile?! We aren't entitled to win every game. We had shite performances under SAF. We had really poor starts to the season under SAF. It doesn't mean we need to suddenly throw everything away and start again. Football is won and lost on seriously fine margins.

You really think people are upset because of one loss? You don't seem to have been on the caf regularly lately. People have been saying the same for more than 6-8 months. The quality of football has been the same dour shite as last season. The results havr been mediocre. And aftet 3 transfer windows we are still short on quality in certain areas of the team after having spent close to 200 million pounds.

All of this squarely lays on LVG's shoulders. Sure there are some extreme view points but they are not because of yesterday's loss alone but a culmination of frustration which people have been talking about for months and which is there for all to see.

 

[Swaters16]

You really think people are upset because of one loss? You don't seem to have been on the caf regularly lately. People have been saying the same for more than 6-8 months. The quality of football has been the same dour shite as last season. The results havr been mediocre. And aftet 3 transfer windows we are still short on quality in certain areas of the team after having spent close to 200 million pounds.

.

Well yeah but you could say almost the exact same thing for the past like 7 years. And people on the Caf constantly whine about everything.
For the past like 3 months the group think solution was play Herrera and everything will magically work and that LVG's an idiot. Herrera plays and we lose our first game of the season, so LVG's an idiot again.
Falcao, Di Maria and RVP need to leave because their shit? LVG's an idiot for playing them. He sells them, idiot again. Moyes wanted to sign world class players? Idiot. Doesn't sign world class players? Idiot.
200 million spent that desperately needed to be spent to fix a team in serious decline with no identity, no gameplan and no confidence. So we get back in the champions league and LVG is still a failure because he doesn't have Giggs and Kanchelskis on the wings. We lose a preseason game against Paris and then that's the last straw. Game over. Redcafe explodes and LVG's time is definitely up according to some on here. Concede 1 goal in 4 matches? Shit coach.
There is no possible way to succeed in this forum, except to win every match 8-0 with 90 minutes of wing play.

 

[entropy]

Well yeah but you could say almost the exact same thing for the past like 7 years. And people on the Caf constantly whine about everything.
For the past like 3 months the group think solution was play Herrera and everything will magically work and that LVG's an idiot. Herrera plays and we lose our first game of the season, so LVG's an idiot again.
Falcao, Di Maria and RVP need to leave because their shit? LVG's an idiot for playing them. He sells them, idiot again. Moyes wanted to sign world class players? Idiot. Doesn't sign world class players? Idiot.
200 million spent that desperately needed to be spent to fix a team in serious decline with no identity, no gameplan and no confidence. So we get back in the champions league and LVG is still a failure because he doesn't have Giggs and Kanchelskis on the wings. We lose a preseason game against Paris and then that's the last straw. Game over. Redcafe explodes and LVG's time is definitely up according to some on here. Concede 1 goal in 4 matches? Shit coach.
There is no possible way to succeed in this forum, except to win every match 8-0 with 90 minutes of wing play.

Brilliant post. LVG has failed so many times according to the caf

 

[NK86]

Well yeah but you could say almost the exact same thing for the past like 7 years. And people on the Caf constantly whine about everything.
For the past like 3 months the group think solution was play Herrera and everything will magically work and that LVG's an idiot. Herrera plays and we lose our first game of the season, so LVG's an idiot again.
Falcao, Di Maria and RVP need to leave because their shit? LVG's an idiot for playing them. He sells them, idiot again. Moyes wanted to sign world class players? Idiot. Doesn't sign world class players? Idiot.
200 million spent that desperately needed to be spent to fix a team in serious decline with no identity, no gameplan and no confidence. So we get back in the champions league and LVG is still a failure because he doesn't have Giggs and Kanchelskis on the wings. We lose a preseason game against Paris and then that's the last straw. Game over. Redcafe explodes and LVG's time is definitely up according to some on here. Concede 1 goal in 4 matches? Shit coach.
There is no possible way to succeed in this forum, except to win every match 8-0 with 90 minutes of wing play.

You are over exaggerating to gain some brownie points. Yes people whine a lot and many times it is uncalled for but to use that as some sort of cover for the current complaining is frankly ridiculous. We needed to move on Falcao and RvP because they were on the decline. But to not replace them was not what this forum was calling for. That is completely LVG's doing. Thus our current struggles.

We are playing at an incredibly poor tempo and thus our failure to be creative. Again on LVG's shoulders. How can you dispute these two things? He got us in the CL but that is what Wenger has been doing for Arsenal for a decade on a shoestring budget compared to us. Yet we deem him a failure of sorts. If LVG does not win us a title and simply keeps us in the top four after that sort of expenditure, why should he be considered a success?

We are clutching at straws here to somehow justify his time here anything but a failure if we continue our current style of play which is not just painfully dour but also provides very moderate success.

 

[Xaviesta]

I've watched Borussia Dortmund's three Bundesliga games this season. Early stages but they look pretty comfortable playing a more possession oriented game despite their new manager only officially taking charge in July. They've scored 11 goals in their first three Bundesliga games and a fair few in the Europa League. Van Gaal has had United a year longer and and they struggle turning their possession into scoring enough goals to win.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I've watched Borussia Dortmund's three Bundesliga games this season. Early stages but they look pretty comfortable playing a more possession oriented game despite their new manager only officially taking charge in July. They've scored 11 goals in their first three Bundesliga games and a fair few in the Europa League. Van Gaal has had United a year longer and and they struggle turning their possession into scoring enough goals to win.

Although Klopp's style of play involved more running and pressing, and less patient buildup, it was huhely focused on being composed on the ball and in tight spaces, and short passing to open teams up, so the transition is a very very minor one, and more to do with tempo than anything else. With us, our whole football grounding was so deeply rooted in something totally different.

Also, their attack is working because of players like aubamayang and reus rather than Rooney an depay.

 

[entropy]

Getting lulled into thinking we are playing good football. Pretty good point from Neville.

 

[kouroux]

Well yeah but you could say almost the exact same thing for the past like 7 years. And people on the Caf constantly whine about everything.
For the past like 3 months the group think solution was play Herrera and everything will magically work and that LVG's an idiot. Herrera plays and we lose our first game of the season, so LVG's an idiot again.
Falcao, Di Maria and RVP need to leave because their shit? LVG's an idiot for playing them. He sells them, idiot again. Moyes wanted to sign world class players? Idiot. Doesn't sign world class players? Idiot.
200 million spent that desperately needed to be spent to fix a team in serious decline with no identity, no gameplan and no confidence. So we get back in the champions league and LVG is still a failure because he doesn't have Giggs and Kanchelskis on the wings. We lose a preseason game against Paris and then that's the last straw. Game over. Redcafe explodes and LVG's time is definitely up according to some on here. Concede 1 goal in 4 matches? Shit coach.
There is no possible way to succeed in this forum, except to win every match 8-0 with 90 minutes of wing play.

Ridiculous generalization. It's one thing to wanna criticize the moaners/negative people but at least do it with less clichés.

 

[RedMachine03]

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[Dans]

The problem with the Van Gaal style, for me at least, is that it removes expression. Football is a game people play to express themselves isn't it? There's no real passion in our play I feel, because players are robots in a system. I am not sure why we need such expensive players to play in a Van Gaal system. Martial is pretty much the only player who seems to express himself, to do what he's always done, instinctively. The others are passing the ball forever trying to bore the other team to the point where one or two players attention drops creating that gap that we can expose with one good pass that leads to a chance.

 

[Xaviesta]

The problem with the Van Gaal style, for me at least, is that it removes expression. Football is a game people play to express themselves isn't it? There's no real passion in our play I feel, because players are robots in a system. I am not sure why we need such expensive players to play in a Van Gaal system. Martial is pretty much the only player who seems to express himself, to do what he's always done, instinctively. The others are passing the ball forever trying to bore the other team to the point where one or two players attention drops creating that gap that we can expose with one good pass that leads to a chance.

That's how i see it too. It's all a bit like clockwork. Where is the spark if Martial is ineffective?

 

[Borys]

The problem with the Van Gaal style, for me at least, is that it removes expression. Football is a game people play to express themselves isn't it? There's no real passion in our play I feel, because players are robots in a system. I am not sure why we need such expensive players to play in a Van Gaal system. Martial is pretty much the only player who seems to express himself, to do what he's always done, instinctively. The others are passing the ball forever trying to bore the other team to the point where one or two players attention drops creating that gap that we can expose with one good pass that leads to a chance.

I don't see it that way actually. Depay is free to do whatever he wants on the left, while Mata is constantly drifting all over the pitch. They are both allowed to "do their thing". Martial moves around too. As long as we play those 3 plus Rooney, it's obvious that our CMs role will be restricted.

As long as Rooney is fit, I have little hope we'll switch to 4-3-3 (what would solve a lot of problems IMO).

 

[Shiva87]

I don't see it that way actually. Depay is free to do whatever he wants on the left, while Mata is constantly drifting all over the pitch. They are both allowed to "do their thing". Martial moves around too. As long as we play those 3 plus Rooney, it's obvious that our CMs role will be restricted.

As long as Rooney is fit, I have little hope we'll switch to 4-3-3 (what would solve a lot of problems IMO).

I don't think a formation switch is really necessary. We have the players to play both formations. It's now a question of the collective ambition of the players from whichever system they play. I firmly believe that we lost to Arsenal because we started as if we will cruise through the game, create 1-2 chances and win. The players weren't up for it. They really need to start passing the ball faster, looking for a goal earlier in the game, etc. It's ok to pass the ball about at such a pedestrian speed if we are 2-0, 3-0 up, not if we aren't.

We need to come out of Rolls-Royce mode and get in Ferrari mode.

(Alas, It doesn't look like happening anytime soon)

 

[mark_a]

Regardless of the knee-jerks or the criticism of the knee-jerks, it comes down to what I'm watching week in week out & that is that the players seem like they're inhibited in some way. The assumption with this is that they're being shackled by how LvG wants them to play. How else do you explain that we don't break or attack with any pace?

We now have some proper class players, with flair & the ability to score goals & turn games. The flipside of Rooney not really scoring is that our goals are spread around the team, which is a positive. We're in the Champions League = positive. With the exception of the Arsenal game, we've been pretty solid at the back = mostly positive. Things are much improved.

When we chant "Attack, Attack, Attack .." at Old Trafford, it feels as though that's asking the players to break the rules!

As earlier posters have said, we lack passion. Or at least sometimes we seem to lack passion. Other times it seems we lack a leader, who's the leader on the field? Who was there to take control in the Arsenal game when we were 3 down and lead from on the field? Rooney is busy looking for his mojo to be leading. He has the spirit (mostly) and I'm sure he can fire up players in the dressing room, but on the pitch?

It just comes down to when we knew we were back in Europe, the next thought is "can we compete in Europe?". Discussing negatives isn't to not accept the positives, it's just that there's clearly improvements to make.

Mind you, can you imagine the press furore if we were having a streak like Chelsea are?!!

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Out of curiosity, what defines freedom of expression in modern football? And which manager offers it and to which players? Is it Guardiola? I doubt it, his Barcelona team was as automated as it gets. Now at Bayern Robben and Ribery stay wide to stretch the opposition and when they get on the ball they cut inside. This happens in every game for 90 minutes. Lewa gives the CBs something to worry about and Muller looks to spot spaces to make a run in the box. They follow a pattern too...

Is it Klopp? I'm afraid the answer is again no since his infamous gegenpressing requires high levels of discipline and teamwork on the pitch. That's the main reason why his teams collapse when they run out of gas or when he has to deal with an injury crisis.

Is it Pellegrini? Not quite sure since Silva, KdB, Sterling and Navas are quite disciplined in the final third and it's their dribbling and holding onto the ball abilities that actually make all the difference. Aguero hasn't changed much his style either, he still makes the same movements in between the lines to find space or drag a defender and open it for someone else and he still aims to use his pace and attack the space behind the CBs whenever that's an option.

Is it Wenger? Sanchez, their best player, basically has the same role as our Memphis on the pitch. Stays wide initially, cuts inside with the ball or tries to become the second striker without it. Of course he's already a world class player and he's already composed in his game and consistent in his performances week after week. Memphis isn't quite there yet.

Is it Enrique? It's true that he has implemented a different tactic that relieves Messi-Neymar-Suarez of their defensive duties and allows them to focus solely on creating chances and scoring goals. But these three combined scored/created almost 100 goals last season. So it's easier for Enrique to convince the others to do all the dirty work without losing the dressing room.

We "know" that's it's not Mourinho but he's managed to win a shiteload of trophies anyway...

I'm asking this cause we already have three players in the team, Mata-Memphis and the striker, with minimal tracking back duties. We also have FBs who are urged to go forward. Luke Shaw, the player who spent more time in the attacking half and tried to dribble opponents, was described as "fantastic and our best player thus far" by LvG. In our most difficult game of the season, till now, the manager decided to drop his only pure defensive midfielder and played the two CMs with the best passing abilities and vision in the squad.

Is freedom of expression the problem or is it something else? Maybe Memphis needs two or three tears to reach Sanchez's level and sadly there's only Young who can replace him. Maybe Mata isn't as good at protecting possession and getting past defenders as Silva. Maybe the player we rely on to score goals as a second/wide forward, that is Rooney, is currently looking like a championship player when compared with players like KdB, Muller or Neymar. Maybe our FBs, besides Shaw, can't offer much when going forward regardless of how many times they get on the ball in the attacking half.

Finally, maybe the rest of the team would try more forward and quick passes, raise the tempo or move to more advanced positions, if they believed that the players upfront would be able to keep the damn thing at their feet for more than three seconds. Martial is doing a fine job but when there's no one else it eventually becomes easy for the opponent to defend against us.

 

[Rich_H_1989]

@TheRedDevil'sAdvocate you raise some really good valid points but I do think there are a few managers out there at top clubs who allow their players to express themselves. LVG isn't one of them.

In Memphis and Mata you have two players who want to try things, to have a free role to influence games when we have the ball. But they aren't allowed to do that. It's all about keeping the ball, taking the safe option and repeat. With players like Memphis and Mata and even Martial, you have to accept they will give the ball away a few times because they are trying to make things happen. ADM was the same and look what happened to him.

I know I for one would hate to play under LVG. I play 5 a side regularly and if I were told to constantly keep it simple I'd blow my nut! Last night I made a lot of things happen for my team, scored a couple and created a load. But in trying things at times they wouldn't come off. If I had someone constantly tell me I should have passed backwards or sideways I'd go mad. Now times that by 100 and you have the situation Mata and Memphis are in.

Players with flair told to reign it in and play it safe. That's why our passing is ponderous and slow. That's why there's a lack of movement because it's better to hit a simple slow pass to feet than get people running in behind knowing the defender may cut it out.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

@Rich_H_1989 thanks for taking the time to read my quite long post. But my initial question remains, what is "freedom of expression", is it measurable? I'm glad you mentioned Memphis and Mata. How is Memphis restricted by LvG? One of our main attacking plays is creating chances for him to go 1v1. He's always looking to do that, he even does it when there's no supporting overlap from the FB and he knows he's going to bump into a two man wall. Then he looks up to sky frustrated...

Doesn't Mata have freedom of movement? From what i've seen till now he has absolute freedom to influence our game wherever and whenever he thinks he can create something good. Some of our fans watch Silva and then believe that somehow it's LvG who restricts Mata. The truth is there are very few players who enjoy Mata's freedom of movement. The problem is, at least imho, that Mata can't dribble like Silva and he isn't as good as Silva in tight spaces. His first touch, when being pressed, is almost always backwards because he wants to find space and then takes one or two more touches in order to turn around and face the goal.

I'd like to add Martial. When he came and played in Rooney's role, we suddenly understood that in LvG's tactics the forward can actually score goals, create numerical advantages by moving to the sides, play with his back to goal and generally influence our game. That's why i'm saying that maybe it's only the tactics to blame.

For the same reason i think that, maybe, our zombie passing can be explained by the lack of our creative players' ability to protect possession when being closed down and, most importantly, get past defenders in order to disorganize the opposition defense. The problem isn't the "few times" they'll concede possession, the main issue is they struggle when they are marked. You said you play football, let me ask you: You are a midfielder and you have two options, play a forward pass into space and then make a run in the box for support or play it safe. Out of 10, how many times would you play that forward pass, if it was a teammate who gets dispossessed quite easily?

Another scenario, the winger in your team has possession and wants to cut inside. You consider if he'll get past his marker in order to move out of position and join the attack. Wouldn't you feel more "optimistic" if that winger was Sanchez, Robben, Bale or Hazard?

When was the last time we played a ball into space and our player got to it before the defender? Everyone praised Blind for his long pass in the Sunderland game but the thing is that Blind and the midfielders are searching for these long balls forward. It's the others who can't beat a defender and get first on these balls more regularly.

All i'm saying is that we can blame the manager's instructions as much as we want (for example, i too believe that this set of players would do better in a more counter attacking system but i would keep them compact and disciplined, i agree with LvG that we don't have enough quality to defend and attack for 90 minutes in a very high tempo) but in the game, on the pitch the players have decisions to make and as human beings they have doubts.

When the class of '92 was at its peak everyone knew that Giggsy could torment the opposition FB, that Becks could aim for a single hair in the forward's head and still find the target, that Scholes' long shots could drag defenders and create spaces in the box etc. This creates confidence in the team and urges players to take risks. Yes, you'll pass into space on the left without even raising your head cause Giggs might still get there first. You'll move out of position and rush into the box cause you have faith that Beckam will find you with a perfect cross.

Just remenber Liverpool back in 2014. They were constantly playing first time balls into space because they knew that Suarez-Sterling-Sturridge would get there first and after that they would find a way to get past their defender 8/10 times. And as the season progressed they we feeling almost invincible. We don't have that right now, it's clear as daylight. And although i disagree that it's all van Gaal's fault i agree with everyone who says that it's his problem to solve.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

The problem with the Van Gaal style, for me at least, is that it removes expression. Football is a game people play to express themselves isn't it? There's no real passion in our play I feel, because players are robots in a system. I am not sure why we need such expensive players to play in a Van Gaal system. Martial is pretty much the only player who seems to express himself, to do what he's always done, instinctively. The others are passing the ball forever trying to bore the other team to the point where one or two players attention drops creating that gap that we can expose with one good pass that leads to a chance.

I'v always said that our most successful period will come after van gaal has gone. Now; saying that does not mean i want him to go right this instant. I believe what van gaal does is organise a club from youth to the top in a single manner and is the stuff that emoyes as a manager got wrong and ultimately caused chaos upon our team.

Now van gaal has stabalised a sinking ship as much as he did with bayern and barcelona.

I rekon the same will happen to us; when as you say, the expression lock is lifted and the new manager slightly alters what cannot be changed too deepily (ie. The structure of the club top to bottom)

This will make the players play more freely but still have the knowledge of the philosophy and where the players are & at what time with their eyes closed.

This is what made bayern and barca/ germany & spain the 4 most successful clubs in the last 10 years. It is also the reason why players like robben, xavi & schweinsteiger have shouted out our name as a possible destination if they hadn't settled or moved already (because they want to be a part of the preregistration of our success).

 

[NL Max]

@TheRedDevil'sAdvocate you raise some really good valid points but I do think there are a few managers out there at top clubs who allow their players to express themselves. LVG isn't one of them.

In Memphis and Mata you have two players who want to try things, to have a free role to influence games when we have the ball. But they aren't allowed to do that. It's all about keeping the ball, taking the safe option and repeat. With players like Memphis and Mata and even Martial, you have to accept they will give the ball away a few times because they are trying to make things happen. ADM was the same and look what happened to him.

I know I for one would hate to play under LVG. I play 5 a side regularly and if I were told to constantly keep it simple I'd blow my nut! Last night I made a lot of things happen for my team, scored a couple and created a load. But in trying things at times they wouldn't come off. If I had someone constantly tell me I should have passed backwards or sideways I'd go mad. Now times that by 100 and you have the situation Mata and Memphis are in.

Players with flair told to reign it in and play it safe. That's why our passing is ponderous and slow. That's why there's a lack of movement because it's better to hit a simple slow pass to feet than get people running in behind knowing the defender may cut it out.

This would've been a good post.. if any of it were actually true. LVG doesn't tell Mata, Memphis, Martial or Rooney to play it safe all the time. That is complete bollocks, he only tells them to keep it simple if they're not in position (centrally too close to de Gea where losing the ball means a counter attack). LVG doesn't slate them if they lose the ball a couple of times when trying to make something happen high up the field, he only will once they contually do this or start pumping balls into the tribune ala Di Maria. That is because he wants more quality in the execution from them, not because he's a risk averse coach who's scared of conceding possesion and therefore tells his goalscorers to not try and do what they're being paid for. In alot of press conference he's talked about players taking the wrong decisions in the final 3rd, something we're slowly seeing progression on. Our attack is having teething problems, the tactics given to them are nothing like you've described.

 

[djembatheking]

@Rich_H_1989 thanks for taking the time to read my quite long post. But my initial question remains, what is "freedom of expression", is it measurable? I'm glad you mentioned Memphis and Mata. How is Memphis restricted by LvG? One of our main attacking plays is creating chances for him to go 1v1. He's always looking to do that, he even does it when there's no supporting overlap from the FB and he knows he's going to bump into a two man wall. Then he looks up to sky frustrated...

Doesn't Mata have freedom of movement? From what i've seen till now he has absolute freedom to influence our game wherever and whenever he thinks he can create something good. Some of our fans watch Silva and then believe that somehow it's LvG who restricts Mata. The truth is there are very few players who enjoy Mata's freedom of movement. The problem is, at least imho, that Mata can't dribble like Silva and he isn't as good as Silva in tight spaces. His first touch, when being pressed, is almost always backwards because he wants to find space and then takes one or two more touches in order to turn around and face the goal.

I'd like to add Martial. When he came and played in Rooney's role, we suddenly understood that in LvG's tactics the forward can actually score goals, create numerical advantages by moving to the sides, play with his back to goal and generally influence our game. That's why i'm saying that maybe it's only the tactics to blame.

For the same reason i think that, maybe, our zombie passing can be explained by the lack of our creative players' ability to protect possession when being closed down and, most importantly, get past defenders in order to disorganize the opposition defense. The problem isn't the "few times" they'll concede possession, the main issue is they struggle when they are marked. You said you play football, let me ask you: You are a midfielder and you have two options, play a forward pass into space and then make a run in the box for support or play it safe. Out of 10, how many times would you play that forward pass, if it was a teammate who gets dispossessed quite easily?

Another scenario, the winger in your team has possession and wants to cut inside. You consider if he'll get past his marker in order to move out of position and join the attack. Wouldn't you feel more "optimistic" if that winger was Sanchez, Robben, Bale or Hazard?

When was the last time we played a ball into space and our player got to it before the defender? Everyone praised Blind for his long pass in the Sunderland game but the thing is that Blind and the midfielders are searching for these long balls forward. It's the others who can't beat a defender and get first on these balls more regularly.

All i'm saying is that we can blame the manager's instructions as much as we want (for example, i too believe that this set of players would do better in a more counter attacking system but i would keep them compact and disciplined, i agree with LvG that we don't have enough quality to defend and attack for 90 minutes in a very high tempo) but in the game, on the pitch the players have decisions to make and as human beings they have doubts.

When the class of '92 was at its peak everyone knew that Giggsy could torment the opposition FB, that Becks could aim for a single hair in the forward's head and still find the target, that Scholes' long shots could drag defenders and create spaces in the box etc. This creates confidence in the team and urges players to take risks. Yes, you'll pass into space on the left without even raising your head cause Giggs might still get there first. You'll move out of position and rush into the box cause you have faith that Beckam will find you with a perfect cross.

Just remenber Liverpool back in 2014. They were constantly playing first time balls into space because they knew that Suarez-Sterling-Sturridge would get there first and after that they would find a way to get past their defender 8/10 times. And as the season progressed they we feeling almost invincible. We don't have that right now, it's clear as daylight. And although i disagree that it's all van Gaal's fault i agree with everyone who says that it's his problem to solve.

Good post mate . Confidence , trust and belief in your team mates is crucial and we don`t have that yet .

 

[Red Dreams]

a lot of people here were happy to see the back of Evans (not me btw). Now they would like to get rid of Jones.

 

[Garethw]

I've watched Borussia Dortmund's three Bundesliga games this season. Early stages but they look pretty comfortable playing a more possession oriented game despite their new manager only officially taking charge in July. They've scored 11 goals in their first three Bundesliga games and a fair few in the Europa League. Van Gaal has had United a year longer and and they struggle turning their possession into scoring enough goals to win.

Look at how well Southampton were playing almost immediately after Koeman was appointed.

The LVG needs more time for it to click argument is just a lazy excuse for bad management.

 

[Garethw]

Every United supporting person that I know has had enough of him and every non United supporting mate thinks that we are an incredibly boring team to watch under LVG.

Yet on here if you even dare to question the football we play you get called out by a group of posters that think that they are morally superior.

 

[sunama]

This would've been a good post.. if any of it were actually true. LVG doesn't tell Mata, Memphis, Martial or Rooney to play it safe all the time. That is complete bollocks, he only tells them to keep it simple if they're not in position (centrally too close to de Gea where losing the ball means a counter attack). LVG doesn't slate them if they lose the ball a couple of times when trying to make something happen high up the field, he only will once they contually do this or start pumping balls into the tribune ala Di Maria. That is because he wants more quality in the execution from them, not because he's a risk averse coach who's scared of conceding possesion and therefore tells his goalscorers to not try and do what they're being paid for. In alot of press conference he's talked about players taking the wrong decisions in the final 3rd, something we're slowly seeing progression on. Our attack is having teething problems, the tactics given to them are nothing like you've described.

I agree with all of your post except for the bolded part.
Our attack is exactly the same as last year. Decision making has not improved at all.
The only difference is that Martial has arrived and attempts to score goals. Our remaining players continue to be risk averse and prefer to back/side pass, rather than go for goal.
Memphis is the only other player who plays without fear.

Many people believe that our tactics prevent our strikers from scoring. As Martial has shown, LVG wants our forwards to try and score. And because of this Martial has started every game, despite being only 19 years old and having no previous EPL experience. LVG wants us to score.

Now, as for why LVG likes Rooney (the master back passer, side passer and most risk averse player in our team) - I have no idea.

 

[sunama]

a lot of people here were happy to see the back of Evans (not me btw). Now they would like to get rid of Jones.

Evans was injury prone and was not MUFC quality.
Jones is injury prone and rarely plays. IMO his body is not built for football and is not MUFC quality.

 

[Red Dreams]

Evans was injury prone and was not MUFC quality.
Jones is injury prone and rarely plays. IMO his body is not built for football and is not MUFC quality.

With Evans, I agree about him being injury prone. But he was at least a good squad player otherwise. All in all it was better for him to get regular playing time.

Jones is quality. But he has been shunted about. Must disagree with you about him being not built for football..whatever that means.

 

[Americano]

The LVG needs more time for it to click argument is just a lazy excuse for bad management.

For me, the large time investment is a weakness of his system. We are over a year into it and still not fluent in his philosophy.

 

[Red Dreams]

I felt last season we were finally getting into a groove. While not playing like a Fergie team, I felt we were very fluent and incisive. Towards the end we did begin to wobble a bit. I wrote it off to season end tiredness. But this season we started so slow. The movement has been by an large very choppy. Even when we got results, very unsatisfying football.

 

[itso 7]

The problem with the Van Gaal style, for me at least, is that it removes expression. Football is a game people play to express themselves isn't it? There's no real passion in our play I feel, because players are robots in a system. I am not sure why we need such expensive players to play in a Van Gaal system. Martial is pretty much the only player who seems to express himself, to do what he's always done, instinctively. The others are passing the ball forever trying to bore the other team to the point where one or two players attention drops creating that gap that we can expose with one good pass that leads to a chance.

Nah it ain't that way, mate. The way I see it is that there are only four players allowed to 'express' themselves but our problems are rooted in the fact that two of those four have been horribly out of form whilst the third (Mata) is a horses for courses kind of player who can look unplayable vs Wolfburg and totally out of sorts vs PSV. Basically the only 'consistent' player in our attack is 19 year old boy. These challenges make it impossible to play with any real tempo, I mean how can you play confidently if two of your three creators are liable to lose the ball everytime you pass it to them?
Where Van Gaal is to blame is leaving us with a paper thin squad. Why were Nani, Evans and Nani let go if we were planning on selling Di Maria without signing a replacement, go into the season without signing another fullback and our central defense transfer strategy amounted to Ramos or bust? Over the weekend we really could have done with having both players around as it meant we could have rested players against So'ton and played a fresh team vs Arsenal and that Rafael could have played RB with Darmian continuing at LB.

 

[Red Dreams]

I still think ADM being sold was a mistake.

 

[itso 7]

I felt last season we were finally getting into a groove. While not playing like a Fergie team, I felt we were very fluent and incisive. Towards the end we did begin to wobble a bit. I wrote it off to season end tiredness. But this season we started so slow. The movement has been by an large very choppy. Even when we got results, very unsatisfying football.

This season we inexplicably chose to destroy and rebuild. Last year we had stumbled on a good thing with the 4-3-3 but soon after signing Bastien and Morgan we decided to restart the formula for no apparent reason.

 

[Red Dreams]

This season we inexplicably chose to destroy and rebuild. Last year we had stumbled on a good thing with the 4-3-3 but soon after signing Bastien and Morgan we decided to restart the formula for no apparent reason.

why oh why did we stop playing 4-3-3....kin hell van Gaal.....ahhhhh.

If we had stuck to it, we would be well above City.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I still think ADM being sold was a mistake.

He'd have been a great #10 behind Martial with the 2 DM formation we're playing with. Lot more attacking freedom with ball winners to win it back if he loses possession. It really wasn't meant to be.

 

[JPRouve]

This season we inexplicably chose to destroy and rebuild. Last year we had stumbled on a good thing with the 4-3-3 but soon after signing Bastien and Morgan we decided to restart the formula for no apparent reason.

There is a very apparent reason, our wingers are Mata, Memphis, Valencia and Young.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I have been thinking recently if the LvG was appointment was properly thought out, I do wonder if Woodward just took a look at his track record and thought that'll do, given Pep, Mourinho, and Klopp were unattainable.

It just seems a bit mad now that we employ a guy that has totally torn up the way that United played. United have become an efficient yet extremely dire team team to watch, there is just no escaping it, I have no doubt we will get top 4 this season, but it'll be a hard watch.

It has been said that the full effects of what LvG is doing will only be felt after he has gone, but that will surely only be true if his philosophy is carried on?

 

[ivaldo]

Two things are painfully obvious in this thread.

1. There are way too many people here who have no idea what LVG philosophy is, they seem to have convinced themselves he doesn't want players to take risks, citing our attacking players as those suffering from a lack of 'expression'. Van Gaal actually encourages his front 4 players to take risks!

2. Continuing on from the expression point, do people really feel expression means playing without any restrictions? Essentially you DON'T want these players to be coached? Crazy.

 

[Red Dreams]

He'd have been a great #10 behind Martial with the 2 DM formation we're playing with. Lot more attacking freedom with ball winners to win it back if he loses possession. It really wasn't meant to be.

awesome footballer. Argentina would be world champions if had not been injured. Having said that I would back a manager over a player. But van Gaal has a lot to prove. Ok..so we are only 8 games into the season and two points off the top. The next few games will really be revealing about what he has in mind.

 

[itso 7]

There is a very apparent reason, our wingers are Mata, Memphis, Valencia and Young.

Then it's a failure in planning because we went into off season knowing this yet somehow couldn't sign a suitable winger. It seems to me that expected a lot more from Memphis and if so then it's another failure in vision and anticipation because there was always a chance of Memphis struggling with the step up.

 

[JPRouve]

Then it's a failure in planning because we went into off season knowing this yet somehow couldn't sign a suitable winger. It seems to me that expected a lot more from Memphis and if so then it's another failure in vision and anticipation because there was always a chance of Memphis struggling with the step up.

Even if he expected more from Memphis a winger was needed.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

We need more options through the middle, seeing our #10 so isolated from our central midfielders is frustrating.
Going back to 4-3-3 "point backwards" would be the ideal solution. Rooney would have to make way though, i hope LvG will make the difficult decision.