Lukaku or current/last seasons Zlatan - who is the better player?

[ti vu]

Because we played everythingt through Zlatan. If he was as good as he was in his peak the team's productivity would have been elevated along with his individual production, but it wasn't because his impact was diminished at this stage of his career. Zlatan himself had a great attacking season, but his performances and style of play did little to help the other attackers in the side.

It's not a coincidence Martial, Rashford, Lingard and even Pogba have had more productive attacking seasons with Lukaku spearheading the attack than they did last year.

There isn't a stat that can measure the value of Lukaku making runs out wide which create space through the middle for others to exploit and stretches defences. Zlatan making more forward passes means little if he was dropping deep into midfield to do so as he so often did which let the opposition CBs off the hook.

I also would like to see the chances which Zlatan created and judge their quality. His playmaking was one of the more disappointing aspects of his game last year for me. I also believe Zlatan was far more wasteful in promising positions than Lukaku has been generally.

I don't want to sound like I'm disparaging Zlatan. He was the best possible option for us last year given the dearth of quality strikers available and the various needs we had. I just think Lukaku is a more progressive option and his impact on those around him is better in ways that individual stats will not capture.

I disagree. Rashford, Mkhi, Lingard lack of end product last season was on their own. They had more chance clear on goal against the keepers last season than now but failed miserably many times. The type of chance was created by a good hold up which pulls the CB higher up the pitch, the wide attackers have more space to use their sheer pace to set themselves up.

Martial is a special case where he doesn't run behind defenders off ball as much as the others. With Lukaku staying close to the defenders, it's better suited for Martial cut in between line style. It doesn't come as surprise Lukaku and Martial have struck a decent partnership which me and some others already spotted during pre season. Since the space created by Lukaku is in front of opposition defense, it required good touch and dribbling. This clearly put Martial apart from Rashford. Lingard is always good with his movement in pocket of space. His much improved end product is unpredictable unless you're SAF. Mkhi was hit the hardest by the change of our forward profile.

 

[DarkXaero]

Because Zlatan would take free kicks, penalties and take shots himself. Whereas lukaku is generally more selfless in his play. Against arsenal away for instance lukaku got no assists or goals but he was heavily involved in 2 of our 3 goals. Zlatan also couldn’t run the channels like lukaku seems to be doing for us.

I'm not sure how Zlatan taking penalties counts as a negative against him...over his career, he has been a very good penalty kick taker. How many direct free kick goals have we scored this season without Zlatan? Ironically, one of the few direct FK goals for us this season has been Zlatan's only goal of the season. Takes shots himself? What...?

I already said being able to run fast is the only thing Lukaku has over last season's Ibra. Movement wise, I'd say Ibra had more intelligent off the ball movement where as Lukaku has a habit of being static despite his pace and strength. Ibra is far better technically, his hold up play was stronger (despite Lukaku looking like the stronger guy), his playmaking was better, and he scored goals at a greater rate, despite playing in a weaker United team.

At this point in the season, Lukaku has played as many PL games as Zlatan did last season (and roughly the same amount of minutes too). Here's a stats comparison from Squawka:

Spoiler

 

[ti vu]

I'm not sure how Zlatan taking penalties counts as a negative against him...over his career, he has been a very good penalty kick taker. How many direct free kick goals have we scored this season without Zlatan? Ironically, one of the few direct FK goals for us this season has been Zlatan's only goal of the season. Takes shots himself? What...?

I already said being able to run fast is the only thing Lukaku has over last season's Ibra. Movement wise, I'd say Ibra had more intelligent off the ball movement where as Lukaku has a habit of being static despite his pace and strength. Ibra is far better technically, his hold up play was stronger (despite Lukaku looking like the stronger guy), his playmaking was better, and he scored goals at a greater rate, despite playing in a weaker United team.

At this point in the season, Lukaku has played as many PL games as Zlatan did last season (and roughly the same amount of minutes too). Here's a stats comparison from Squawka:

Spoiler

Overall I agree with you. Just disagree on Lukaku is being static. Lukaku's weak in hold up play so his run is more about getting in behind the defenders. Zlatan can hold up and play making better, this means the defenders can't just leave him up the pitch free. Follow him leaves space behind which last season creates chance for Mkhi, Rashford a Lingard to go clean on goal against GK many times. This adds an unpredictable element to Zlatan movement, not necessarily means Lukaku being static. It's Lukaku movement is easier to read. The fix lies with him improving his hold up play, touch. Lukaku can still compensate for that if we can provide better service, letting him isolate defender in 1 vs 1 situation. Thing is we have been daft in this leaving Lukaku to be forced on work on his hold up play which is hard to get immediate improvement.

 

[eat_grass]

My initial reaction is to pick the player that bagged trophy-winners last season as the "better player," but if Lukaku keeps showing the passion he showed against Crystal Palace, I might just have to throw on red blinkers and pick Lukaku. Love that sh*t!

 

[Raees]

Simply put I think individually Zlatan was better as performance wise Lukaku hasnt been that great despite the recent goals streak returning - overall game has still been below par.

Has the team overall benefitted from Lukaku up top? I'd say yes and the league table reflects that as we are turning more iffy performances into wins than last year where performances were also quite tumescent.

Overall would I prefer to have last years Zlatan? No I prefer the more faster paced attack of this year but has either of them been the perfect United forward thus far? Despite the good statistics I'd say no.. one lacked pace, other has lacked the link up play.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

...What’s the point in trying to pick one over the other?

> for the season United had last year and what was at stake, Zlatan played his part accordingly and then some.

> for the season United is having this year and what’s at stake, Lukaku is playing his part accordingly and then some.

Both did/doing their part equally as impressive in my honest opinion all things considered. Weird how there isn’t an ‘equally as good’ or ‘even’ option - seems pointless and is honestly trying to compare apples to oranges whilst trying to create a debate from nothing. Like can’t we just be satisfied with both? Lol

 

[Stacks]

Because Zlatan would take free kicks, penalties and take shots himself. Whereas lukaku is generally more selfless in his play. Against arsenal away for instance lukaku got no assists or goals but he was heavily involved in 2 of our 3 goals. Zlatan also couldn’t run the channels like lukaku seems to be doing for us.

This isn't backed up emperically as Zlatan created more than Lukaku too as his passing game is far superior.

 

[onemanarmy]

...What’s the point in trying to pick one over the other?

> for the season United had last year and what was at stake, Zlatan played his part accordingly and then some.

> for the season United is having this year and what’s at stake, Lukaku is playing his part accordingly and then some.

Both did/doing their part equally as impressive in my honest opinion all things considered. Weird how there isn’t an ‘equally as good’ or ‘even’ option - seems pointless and is honestly trying to compare apples to oranges whilst trying to create a debate from nothing. Like can’t we just be satisfied with both? Lol

You are way too reasonable for this forum.

 

[Adebesi]

What actually is the point of a forum? Player x versus player y, do you like our tactics, would you prefer to play 442 or 433, who should we buy in the summer, what is the matter with Pogba.... what difference do any of our opinions actually make in the grand scheme of things?

Sack Niall sell redcafe.

 

[VancouverUtdFan]

You are way too reasonable for this forum.

*sigh*

 

[onemanarmy]

What actually is the point of a forum? Player x versus player y, do you like our tactics, would you prefer to play 442 or 433, who should we buy in the summer, what is the matter with Pogba.... what difference do any of our opinions actually make in the grand scheme of things?

Sack Niall sell redcafe.

Give it to Giggsy till the end of the season.

 

[MarcusRashford]

Lukaku, no doubt about it. Makes much better runs and I always felt Zlatan was detrimental for chemistry. For example, he had to take all the free kicks always, no matter what. You see Pogba now, a brilliant free kick taker IMO but he lets other guys take them. Big difference.
Anyhow, Lukaku is so much better but he is being used as Zlatan, as a target man when he is far more versatile and there's better way of using him.

 

[SSSSnake]

and?

Lukaku for me is edging it.

 

[Freak]

Zlatan. The guy literally carried our attack last season as Martial and Rashford were both shit in front of goal. Lukaku has been good for us, but Zlatan carried our attack.

 

[mattunited1978]

This isn't backed up emperically as Zlatan created more than Lukaku too as his passing game is far superior.

Dont think this is true. Lukaku certainly isnt anywhere near as graceful or technical around the pitch as zlatan but he has created a bucket load of chances this season that his teammates have wasted.

 

[Red Royal]

pointless discussion... Zlatan played amazing and Lukaku is excellent. just celebrate them both.