Still gobsmacking, ain't it?
LV Monopoly draft - SF1: Tuppet vs Skizzanah Nomustard
- Thread starter antohan
- Start date
Yeah. The only thing I'm afraid of is that even this number can be far fetched - it's a consensus that he had 207 clean sheets but he played 812 games overall. There is also a theory that he conceded 270 in 812... which isn't that good, although you have to count the average amount of goals per game at that period
Complete shambles, and no way to know for sure
Still stunning given how rare clean sheets were back then. Mind you, you would need to assess the relative quality of opposition, which is impossible.Yeah. The only thing I'm afraid of is that even this number can be far fetched - it's a consensus that he had 207 clean sheets but he played 812 games overall. There is also a theory that he conceded 270 in 812... which isn't that good, although you have to count the average amount of goals per game at that period
Complete shambles, and no way to know for sure
That's clean sheets in games, right? Can you tell us anything about the more than 150 penalties saved myth? Because that sounds like absolute nonsense to me. I mean, how many penalties did his team concede ffs? Even if he saved every single one he ever faced, giving away more than 150 penalties in 438 games would be insane. Were his teammates that stupid or is it just not true.
Don't think he saved many at tournaments? Czechoslovakia missed one in the semifinal against him in 1960 and Eusebio converted his at the World Cup in '66. Was there another one?
/edit:
saw your post above, if he played more than 800 games it's a bit less insane, but still almost impossible to believe.
Biggest game of his career, and poor Alexis see's his number up on the board. With Bergomi gone, he knows the team needs a reshuffle to keep things going. That doesn't stop him being a little upset at the decision...
And on comes Didi! The Brazilian joins his fellow countrymen Pele and Julinho, hoping to keep control of the game in midfield
And on comes Didi! The Brazilian joins his fellow countrymen Pele and Julinho, hoping to keep control of the game in midfield
Tactical reshuffle after the red card
Lahm moves back to his preferred spot on the right. Netto comes out of midfield and takes the left back spot. Didi comes in to partner Neeskens in the center of the pitch. With Sanchez gone, Maradona moves off center, taking up position more as a left sided CAM, while that frees up space "in the hole" where Pele can roam around as Julinho continues his work on the right.
and theres a blob in the corner because i couldn't submit a tactic with only 10 players
Lahm moves back to his preferred spot on the right. Netto comes out of midfield and takes the left back spot. Didi comes in to partner Neeskens in the center of the pitch. With Sanchez gone, Maradona moves off center, taking up position more as a left sided CAM, while that frees up space "in the hole" where Pele can roam around as Julinho continues his work on the right.
and theres a blob in the corner because i couldn't submit a tactic with only 10 players
Said Tuppet's team was a thing of beauty last round and it still looks great. Hamrin is a great one to come in and him and Cristiano are two fantastic wing forwards to have in a false 9 system with incredible goal threats. Messi looks well at home there. While you probably couldn't think of better people than Beckenbauer and Bergomi to deal with Messi and Cristiano in these roles respectively, I'd say they've met their match. Those would be amazing battles but it is virtually impossible to contain those two fools on the counter with the class of the ball from behind. There's unprecedented amount of movement and pace in there.
That was the main area where the game would be decided for me, apart from that not really convinced by wings of Julinho and Sanchez to make a huge impact here, specially Sanchez doesn't cut the mustard for me at this stage. As good as that spine as a rather central oriented attack makes it easier to contain.
That was the main area where the game would be decided for me, apart from that not really convinced by wings of Julinho and Sanchez to make a huge impact here, specially Sanchez doesn't cut the mustard for me at this stage. As good as that spine as a rather central oriented attack makes it easier to contain.
No longer on the pitch.
@Skizzo, I think I like that more than the original XI. Good sub and merry-go-round.
Didí is loving this, there's absolutely nobody tracking him as Tardelli has his hands full in that midfield.
Didí is loving this, there's absolutely nobody tracking him as Tardelli has his hands full in that midfield.
In fairness it would be better reserving judgement until Tuppet is on to make a change.
Agree with the balance in Skizzannah - the defence looks more fluid now, particularly on the ball.
Yeah, it's a number that I still can't believe - sadly, even when I tried, I never found the source.
It looks like Romario/Pele's 1000 goal claim to me - obviously the number isn't just invented out of nothing, but it's likely that they counted every exhibition/friendly/youth game to create such legend.
And you know how the Soviets liked to manipulate information (not that they were the only ones, of course)
Absolutely! Never meant it as a criticism, not even slightly. It's a shame that Akinfeev now have more clean sheets than Yashin and Dasaev
One of the most impressing facts about him is that Streltsov, easily the most talented USSR outfield player ever, said that he firstly used his trademark back heel pass against Dynamo - because Yashin made it impossible to score an ordinary goal against him.
I always assumed they counted his penalty stops in ice hockey as well. That would make the number more believeable. He played a few seasons professional hockey early in his career during the winter before fully committing to football if I'm not mistaken. Either way, it's clearly a nonsensical number even though he was famous for his penalty saves during his career.
It must be rubbish.
Haven't posted much and will keep it that way since Tuppet doesn't seem to have the time but I just wanted to say that Maradona and Beckenbauer should dovetail pretty damn well considering he played with Romano for Napoli. Who was a deep-lying playmaker who would operate in a similar manner as Beckenbauer in the offense. Both of them also excelled in teams without a ton of natural width, Beckenbauer with Muller/Rummenigge up front and Maradona both for Argentina and Napoli.
The team is more built around Maradona than Pele, but it is hard not to see them be a massive threat together and Pele does have that added bonus of being the glue in his team and making it work even if he has Rivelino/Tostao operating in the same area. If there is someone who can make it work with superstars it has to be him and it would be a pretty great sight seeing Beckenbauer dominate from his role, doing the playmaking, getting the ball out of the defense and providing Maradona and Pele with a great platform further forward.
I could see Maradona having to drop a lot deeper to get the ball otherwise and here he can focus on receiving the ball where he will do the most damage. Obviously a player who will torment the entire width of the pitch and not just in a linear line centrally and Pele would love it as well with a solid spine of deeper playmaking which would be able to find his runs. Pele and Maradona could really have some beautiful moments together as Maradona often looked for someone to link up with and Pele wasn't a ball-hogging player who wouldn't release the ball at all. He also liked linking up with players, making a pass and then go on a run to receive a pass himself.
The team is more built around Maradona than Pele, but it is hard not to see them be a massive threat together and Pele does have that added bonus of being the glue in his team and making it work even if he has Rivelino/Tostao operating in the same area. If there is someone who can make it work with superstars it has to be him and it would be a pretty great sight seeing Beckenbauer dominate from his role, doing the playmaking, getting the ball out of the defense and providing Maradona and Pele with a great platform further forward.
I could see Maradona having to drop a lot deeper to get the ball otherwise and here he can focus on receiving the ball where he will do the most damage. Obviously a player who will torment the entire width of the pitch and not just in a linear line centrally and Pele would love it as well with a solid spine of deeper playmaking which would be able to find his runs. Pele and Maradona could really have some beautiful moments together as Maradona often looked for someone to link up with and Pele wasn't a ball-hogging player who wouldn't release the ball at all. He also liked linking up with players, making a pass and then go on a run to receive a pass himself.
To be perfectly honest I just don't see Pele and Maradona working together. I've mentioned it in the main thread when anto picked him in all time draft.
It's a clusterfeck IMO. Sanchez is underwhelming at this company, but probably it's just that I don't rate him that high. Other than that Skizzo/Pat have an amazing core especially in defence and midfield. I just don't see the balance in attack with Suarez or Leonidas behind Maradona I think would've been a much better fit to the strengths of all players around them.
On the other side Tuppet has a more balanced side but little lack of star quality apart from Messi and Ronaldo.
I liked the one from each side sent off otherwise it's too one sided after half time.
It's a clusterfeck IMO. Sanchez is underwhelming at this company, but probably it's just that I don't rate him that high. Other than that Skizzo/Pat have an amazing core especially in defence and midfield. I just don't see the balance in attack with Suarez or Leonidas behind Maradona I think would've been a much better fit to the strengths of all players around them.
On the other side Tuppet has a more balanced side but little lack of star quality apart from Messi and Ronaldo.
I liked the one from each side sent off otherwise it's too one sided after half time.
I don't think it's possible. Handanovic for example has a great % at saving penos - 26 from 56 or something, still that's 5 times less than what Yashin is supposed to have saved. Even if we took one of the best penalty stoppers in the game (I think it was Pfaff that saved like 60% of what he faced at Bayern) Yashin still needs to have faced at least 250-300 penos in his career, which is way too much.
Other sources say that he saved 15 from 49 attempts, which seems more realistic.
Plus some player remembered having a penalty competition with Chislenko and someone else, again Yashin, where he scored 4/5 and the other two - 3/5, brilliant, but not impossible 1/3 ratio.
Plus Yashin allegedly said that every missed penalty is a mistake of a taker and a keeper simply can't save a perfect strike (which is, well, true)
@Balu
Plus some player remembered having a penalty competition with Chislenko and someone else, again Yashin, where he scored 4/5 and the other two - 3/5, brilliant, but not impossible 1/3 ratio.
Plus Yashin allegedly said that every missed penalty is a mistake of a taker and a keeper simply can't save a perfect strike (which is, well, true)
@Balu
If they include some friendlies and competitions like that it's then, well, possible. I'm not sure how "official" are those 150 penos but at that time there were a lot of competitions that fall in the middle between competitive game and friendly. Still 150 is insane as a number, more of a myth probably as other Soviet players at the time. They tend to glorify them to no end, not only in sports
Without penalty shootouts? Doubt it. Even today with penalty shootouts in cup competitions and short pre-season tournaments that go straight to penalties after 90 minutes, it's unlikely if not impossible. But in the 60's before the introduction of penalty shootouts to football it's simply impossible in my opinion.If they include some friendlies and competitions like that it's then, well, possible. I'm not sure how "official" are those 150 penos but at that time there were a lot of competitions that fall in the middle between competitive game and friendly. Still 150 is insane as a number, more of a myth probably as other Soviet players at the time. They tend to glorify them to no end, not only in sports
Yes. I agree, that's why I wonder what they could've included in those stats. I'm not sure what his percentage is supposed to be either. As far as I know Pfaff has the biggest % in terms of penalty saves off various records at around 60% when he was at Bayern (but still out of very few penos) and was the same at Beveren yet the pure number of spot kicks faced is nowhere near as you said in a more penalty shootout friendly era than what Yashin faced.
Dunno, maybe he was so good at penos that the defenders just kicked anyone getting into the box.
Don't get too excited. It was only Bergomi but Vieira chose to upset the ref (aka a rebalancing condition was triggered).
If Ronaldo had seen red, for example, it would be one red only (unless other conditions got triggered).
Come on @Tuppet even hard Italian cheese can go soft (or Swiss).
I'm commenting on this game mate.
Not projecting anything else or putting my hopes up, as you don't know what to expect in a draft like this. For what I know two of my players can be sent off not just one. 
Nah, only Team Chester could have had two players sent off.I'm commenting on this game mate.
what a shit game. @antohan has more posts than skizzo, anna and tuppet combined. how did that happen?
While you are right about manager participation, that's not a rare event. I generally post a lot, if only to just keep the threads bumped.
It's a weekend, and one without PL football at that. Games, let alone semifinals, shouldn't be played on the wrong days.
Well I don't have a goat sitting on the bench who can just come and fix it, but still Pirlo -> Ze Roberto
Interesting... I thought Hamrin would go for Zé with Cristiano swappped to the other flank.
How does your outlook/approach change @Tuppet?
How does your outlook/approach change @Tuppet?
It doesn't really change that much, the idea is to still stay compact in middle and catch the opposition in counter. Both defensive midfielders stay disciplined and are mostly concerned with ball winning. While we have lost Pirlo's passing, the launching counters from deep could still be accomplished by Blanc and Krol. Messi would drop a lot more to be involved in playmaking process but I still have 3 fast and technical forwards who can pounce upon those long balls.
Tuppet wasn't available, so posted when he could. We weren't gonna sit here and spam the thread without him since that always seems a little unfair. We responded to points made, and made observations and comments, but it didn't pick up much steam due to it being a weekend with other things going on. It's on more than just managers to try and make a thread interesting, no one wants to watch them go back and forth making the same circular arguments.
your contribution to the thread was worthwhile at least :P
I like both teams more after the send off
It's weird isn't it? They looked rigid and laboured and suddenly the whole thing came to life.I like both teams more after the send off
Good game @Tuppet ! That front three of yours probably deserved a closer game. Seems like the red cards did our team a favour
The more I think on it, the more I think that it's easily explainable, actually - with the less players on the pitch, the more emphasis is on individual quality and less on tactics andIt's weird isn't it? They looked rigid and laboured and suddenly the whole thing came to life.
There is a reason why 5-a-side are so popular in the fantasy world, you can pick Beckenbauer, Di Stefano, Messi, Maradona and Pele and they will dovetail nicely (well, you should probably pick Yashin instead of one of them but who cares, really)
I actually switched my vote given the swift and ingenious reaction after the reds but, to be honest, the game was slowly slipping away and inactivity was probably a bigger factor.Good game @Tuppet ! That front three of yours probably deserved a closer game. Seems like the red cards did our team a favour
I ended up voting Skizzannah but ultimately it felt a bit unfair to Tuppet. I think maybe in the future it would be good keep separate two types of randomization. If the draft itself is randomized then don't have random events in matches. But if the draft is like the Americas draft, then random match events are okay. I just feel like the double randomization can hurt some players arbitrarily. Tuppet lacked depth but that was more due to randomness than any mistake.
Aye, rather harsh on tuppet but kudos to him for a commendable effort in building a team around Cruyff. Really liked his first round side, with the exception of Pirlo and Samuel (Ronaldo to an extent). Building a team around Cruyff is never easy, and it was an excellent side for a first round team. Shame he had Cruyff taken away though.