LvG and strikers

[JPRouve]

What? He was completely nullified by Kompany. "Silent domination" my arse

Kompany didn't nullified Rooney, we wanted to isolate the fullbacks and create one on one situations, and Rooney efficiently occupied both centrebacks.
Individually there was no domination but collectively we did what we wanted to do.

 

[Drifter]

A striker that scores goals and more, I think. He's just so cryptic!

Yeah.If you look at his so called philosophy.He is more concerned that his forwards link up play rather than how many goals they scored.Which makes me wonder why did he sell Welbeck.

 

[Hal9000]

What? He was completely nullified by Kompany. "Silent domination" my arse

Kompany was a mess that game. He was all over the place, got pulled out of position and that's why he made that silly desperate tackle that should of had him off.

Again though, proves my point. Unless Rooney is getting 100 touches a game, and everyone of them has to be something special, he'll get slated.

 

[matt23]

Yep. Definitely a concern. We went into last season with arguably the strongest strike force in the league on paper, and they all ended up looking very expendable, and probably being the reason we dropped so many points, in the end.

 

[Dans]

Yeah.If you look at his so called philosophy.He is more concerned that his forwards link up play rather than how many goals they scored.Which makes me wonder why did he sell Welbeck.

I was thinking that too, but many here weren't convinced of him long term - I personally think he isn't consistently clinical enough, but he could be classed as a poor man's Thomas Mueller actually. I guess the Falcao thing happened which meant no room for Welbeck.

 

[Rood]

You'd think if he likes his strikers to be strikers i.e not too many touches outside of box and in unnecessary areas, then Hernandez would be his perfect player!

Ironically, the striker who most suits this role is Chicharito given the qualities he possesses. He always occupies defences with his movement, creating spaces for the creative players, and he's also a clinical goalscorer.

Worth giving Hernandez a go, than spending big big money on Benzema, Cavani, Benteke or Kane, if they are going to be players who aren't really all that involved. Hernandez's movement on the last defender is very good, he pulls defenders all over the place with his runs and changes of direction. He doesn't look to drop off and get involved. His hold-up play is limited, but he's capable of receiving a pass and playing it laterally before making a run again.

As far as I can tell, Chicharito is literally the opposite of what Van Gaal wants from his striker! Which is exactly why he was out of the door pretty quickly - he favours a big, strong forward who can hold the ball up and works tirelessly for the team.

Comments from Klose (a similar type of 'fox in the box' striker) show how that kind of striker struggles to adapt to LvG's philosophy:

"It was a tough time, particularly working with Van Gaal," Klose told Germany's Die Zeit newspaper.

"I didn't feel free. It was very difficult for me to fulfil his expectations. He was asking me to make runs I just couldn't see.

"I gave it all I could, but sometimes it just wasn't enough."​

 

[Ekeke]

Yeah.If you look at his so called philosophy.He is more concerned that his forwards link up play rather than how many goals they scored.Which makes me wonder why did he sell Welbeck.

Because he said the opposite, that he wants strikers with the profile of RVP and Rooney who score lots of goals.

Obviously he wants strikers who score a lot of goals, but ones who also give a lot of things to the team. Stretching the backline with runs but not having a lot of touches is part of that. It gives the other attacking players space to work by dragging defenders out of position

 

[Rood]

There's been a lot of criticism on our forwards' form this season but imo if we choose to focus solely on them, we simply extenuate the difficulties we had in creating chances and opening up tight defenses all season. We can discuss all day if Rooney and RvP are past it or if LvG's tactics demand of the strikers to perform specific tasks on the pitch and therefore limit their creativity... and we can come to the 'conclusion' that we should keep Hernandez in the first team and kick both Rooney and RvP out the club.

The truth is that we only watched glimpses of how a proper van Gaal team plays on the pitch. I'm not talking about the formations and the increased possession stats, which have often been laughed at on this forum, i'm talking about the way he likes to set his teams in order to create spaces in the final third. Every good LvG side, when in possession, aims to create space in between the opposition lines by stretching their back four line and creating isolation opportunities for the three creative players behind the forward to play 1v1 against their markers.

That doesn't mean that he just needs a poacher up front to harass the opposition CBs. This is just the first part of the job the forward has to do. He has to be able to communicate well with his teammates, especially the wide players and the man behind him, and create pockets of space for them. Players like Hernandez or Falcao make the runs, attack the channels but 9/10 times the do it to create chances just for themselves. Of course Luis wants to get goals from his forwards but not only tap ins, he wants attacking players who can beat their defenders and score goals.

Someone mentioned Kluivert, he is a fine example. He could play with his back on goal, he could beat defenders in the air and he was good with ball at his feet. But was he the main threat in that Ajax side? No, but he had developed and excellent understanding with Litmanen who was playing in the hole. Plus that Ajax team was working very hard to create 1v1 situations for Overmars and George on the wings and they also had R. de Boer who could make deep runs in the box.

You can also take a look at his 2010 Bayern side. His top goal scorers where Robben (inside forward) and Muller (behind the forward). And some of Olic's goals came from wide positions. This is the infamous "philosophy" and this is the way LvG has been earning his living in the last 25 years.

We can see that, according to the transfer rumors, we are going after wingers who can play as inside forwards and provide goals and assists. LvG was absolutely right to reward Young for his performances this season but players like Young (players who like to hug the touch line and put blind crosses in the box) rarely suit his plans. In his preferred 4-2-3-1 he wants the three players behind the forward to deliver the goods simply because the whole attacking plan is to create spaces for them to do so.

The second big problem we had this season was our FBs/WBs' inability to create chances and trouble the opposition defenses. We saw numerous times that our opponents chose to defend in a very narrow and compact shape by using double-teams against our wingers because they expected no threats from the FBs. This is also something LvG has to deal with.

I believe that if we get another top class winger, a RB with creative skills and a defensive minded b2b midfielder who will liberate Herrera, we'll be fine with Rooney up front. Although i agree that Rooney's natural position is behind the forward, like Litmanen at Ajax and Muller at Bayern Munich. But imo a midfield of Carrick (at 34) and Herrera can't support this tactic.

Good post - pretty much echoes my thoughts on this subject.
The only questions is who can we buy who will fit the philosophy - from the PL I can think only of Benteke who fits the bill, Kane might be moulded into that type as well.

That win at Arsenal win was down to De Gea bailing us out and a few good counter attack moments as Arsenal needlessly piled forward, we were lucky to win that. I seem to remember van Persie didn't actually play as a centre forward that game though, he was out on the right side with Di Maria on the left and Rooney in a deeper central role whereas Rooney was the main striker vs. City at home.



van Persie went into the World Cup as top scorer in the European zone as I mentioned to you the other night. His overall record with van Gaal as manager of the national team between 2012 and 2014 is 18 goals in 23 matches. What he needs pace around him with people prepared to make runs to support him from midfield I think to make his hold up work otherwise the tempo just doesn't suit his style. He can occasionally style pull off a piece of magic to get us a goal but he needs more help these days to score.

I dont want to go too much into analysing individual games as this is more a general discussion about what kind of striker does well under LvG. But we were playing the more 3-5-2 system when we went to Arsenal away so both ADM and RvP were the forwards, in fact i checked the average position chart and although RvP was on the right side, he was our most advanced player.

But it is a good point that we already have RvP and he has proven in the past that he can do well under LvG (18 in 23 is actually incredible!) so perhaps it is more down to specifics of the season (WC hangover, injuries etc) rather than system that he wasnt upto scratch this year. As you say, he needs pace around him and that Holland team does rely a lot on Robben (ADM should be doing similar for us if he was on form) and often Huntelaar will play so sometimes RvP isnt the main striker anyway.

 

[Ish]

What? He was completely nullified by Kompany. "Silent domination" my arse

I think you'd have a lengthy debate about Gary Neville about that. I think it was Gary who called it one of Rooney's best ever performances for United or something (hyperbolic) along those lines.

Pointing out how Rooney stayed perfectly "in between" Kompany and Demichelis, dragging them around out of position etc., meaning neither of them could drop deep to pick up the loose ball or any of our midfielders (Fellaini especially) because neither was sure who was marking Rooney. Apparently it is a performance LvG wants from his strikers and I think Rooney had something like 21 touches in that match. One of his lowest ever totals. Ps I could be experiencing a brainfart here. Most of these facts are being recalled from memory.

But yeah, not saying you're wrong at all. Just extreme opinions on that performance from Rooney.

 

[Boycott]

There's a difference between working hard and working smart.

Rooney does the former. A lot of running up and down, following the ball which sees him drop so far deep he's in a defensive position. Lots of heart and desire. But then we need that focal point he isn't there to do that.

Benzema is perfect since he can work the channels, play in between the lines and can play off the shoulder if needs to be. He also puts in a shift for the team but not as laborious as Rooney does, because there's no need.

In the Prem I think Giroud is like a poor mans Benzema. He's got good hold up play, good touch and can link up with the players around him. If he was a bit quicker he'd be a perfect LvG striker.

 

[clarkydaz]

Sounds like the perfect LVG striker is like a Fellaini that can bust a gut. Fast enough to prompt defences to retreat deeper and afford more space in the middle of the pitch. Not so great in technique that they'd enjoy being in possession of the ball (quick to offload and make selfless runs instead). Tall and attack-minded enough that they only make a few, crucial touches in the final moments of the final third. Strong enough to shield and hold the ball when the team needs to work their way up.

Not at all, the striker needs to be powerful and able to make life difficult for the two centrebacks.

you mean someone like...Danny Wellbeck

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

you mean someone like...Danny Wellbeck

Exactly. A Danny Welbeck with composure and clinicalness in front of goal of course.

 

[JPRouve]

you mean someone like...Danny Wellbeck

Not exactly, because the striker also needs to be efficient and exploits the little amount of chances that he has. Welbeck seems to have a lot of the right attributes but his finishing was probably too poor, despite the fact that he had a good ratio mins/goals, irrc.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Good post - pretty much echoes my thoughts on this subject.
The only questions is who can we buy who will fit the philosophy - from the PL I can think only of Benteke who might fit the bill, Kane might be moulded into that type as well.

Lewandowski is the first name that springs to mind but i guess he will stay in Munich. You only had to watch BvB in a couple of games this season to understand how important he was for them and why Guardiola wanted him at Bayern. Klopp had three players who can be lethal behind the forward, Reus-Kagawa-Mkhitaryan, but they couldn't develop a good understanding with either Aubameyang or Immobile. Despite Aubameyang's 16 league goals, the other three had significantly less numbers in goals and assists and that resulted to BvB scoring only 47 (8th) goals in Bundesliga.

I think Kane would be a sound choice. He's young and full of potential and under a manager like LvG he could really become an immense player for United and England. Last season he was a constant threat in the box and he used that not only to score goals but also to create pockets of space for Eriksen. These two were the only reason Spurs were in the race for 4th place until the last third of the season. But he recently extended his contract and i doubt that Spurs are willing to let him go this summer.

As for Benteke, i think he highly depends on his form. When he's in form, he can be a force of nature but when he's not, it's like playing with ten men on the pitch. I don't believe he has the quality to play for United.

I wouldn't be surprised if we made a move for Higuain. His hold up play is really underrated by many fans and he is capable of being involved in build-up play. He is a strong presence in the box, he can score goals from difficult angles and he also gets a decent amount of assists each season (he had 7 in 2014-15, i think). And except for the 2010-11 season, when he went through surgery and missed four months, he gets more than 15 goals per season for the last decade.

He also helps the others around him, this season Callejon had 11 goals and three assists, Hamsik had 7/10 and Mertens 6/7. Of course there's the risk of not knowing how well he could do in the PL but i think he is a pretty safe option. And he might also be our most realistic target, right now.

 

[adexkola]

I'd rather we developed a system that would facilitate enough chances for any half decent striker to put away, instead of putting playmaking AND scoring responsibilities on one player. Put Rooney ahead of Ribery, Robben and Muller for example, and he would be phenomenal.

 

[JPRouve]

I'd rather we developed a system that would facilitate enough chances for any half decent striker to put away, instead of putting playmaking AND scoring responsibilities on one player. Put Rooney ahead of Ribery, Robben and Muller for example, and he would be phenomenal.

So you like LVG's system?

 

[adexkola]

So you like LVG's system?

I like where it's going, if that makes sense. I'm not totally sold on it yet. It has promise, based on what I've seen at some points during last season.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I think Van Gaal does like his strikers to be disciplined, but at the same time, I don't think he minds if they drop off sometime, just as long as the number 10 - who he likes to play very close to the striker, runs in behind.

Example below.

 

[mazhar13]

As far as I can tell, Chicharito is literally the opposite of what Van Gaal wants from his striker! Which is exactly why he was out of the door pretty quickly - he favours a big, strong forward who can hold the ball up and works tirelessly for the team.

Comments from Klose (a similar type of 'fox in the box' striker) show how that kind of striker struggles to adapt to LvG's philosophy:

"It was a tough time, particularly working with Van Gaal," Klose told Germany's Die Zeit newspaper.

"I didn't feel free. It was very difficult for me to fulfil his expectations. He was asking me to make runs I just couldn't see.

"I gave it all I could, but sometimes it just wasn't enough."​

The likes of Klose and Toni, whilst both were big, strong, and very good at holding the ball up, were quite immobile and static with their movement. Gomez was also the same, but van Gaal adjusted his game and made him more mobile and suited for the team, hence why he became their main striker from van Gaal's 2nd season onwards there.

Chicharito, unlike Klose, Toni, and Gomez, isn't immobile, slow, and static. He's pacey, and he's constantly buzzing around, causing havoc for defenders with his movement, both vertical and horizontal. His only issue is that he can't hold the ball up under pressure, but he's also improved in that aspect with better ball control and dribbling than he had before he came to Man. Utd. Of course, we know that he's a clinical finisher as well.

Even in pre-season for us, Chicharito showed some promise. It was only in the first few matches of the season, particularly against MK Dons, where he failed to make any impact. His weakness in holding the ball still holds him back, but otherwise, he has the qualities for the role under van Gaal.

Plus, van Gaal doesn't necessarily want big and strong strikers. In his 2nd spell for the Netherlands, he favoured van Persie over Huntelaar. In AZ, he had El Hamdaoui and Ari, neither of whom were that big and strong. In Bayern, as you know, he favoured Olic over Gomez, Klose, and Toni, and Olic wasn't even much of a ball holder for Bayern. For us, he sold Welbeck, who was more mobile than van Persie and Falcao, and he even played Wilson at times even though Wilson wasn't even strong.

 

[mazhar13]

The truth is that we only watched glimpses of how a proper van Gaal team plays on the pitch. I'm not talking about the formations and the increased possession stats, which have often been laughed at on this forum, i'm talking about the way he likes to set his teams in order to create spaces in the final third. Every good LvG side, when in possession, aims to create space in between the opposition lines by stretching their back four line and creating isolation opportunities for the three creative players behind the forward to play 1v1 against their markers.

That doesn't mean that he just needs a poacher up front to harass the opposition CBs. This is just the first part of the job the forward has to do. He has to be able to communicate well with his teammates, especially the wide players and the man behind him, and create pockets of space for them. Players like Hernandez or Falcao make the runs, attack the channels but 9/10 times the do it to create chances just for themselves. Of course Luis wants to get goals from his forwards but not only tap ins, he wants attacking players who can beat their defenders and score goals.

The bolded part is one of the reasons van Gaal started to play Wilson ahead of Falcao for a few matches during the winter fixtures. At that time, whilst Falcao was starting to get some goals, he was poor on the ball and often gave it away.

The only reason I mentioned Chicharito is because he did quite a lot of that selfless work under Sir Alex. He was running the channels, stretching defences, and basically occupying central defenders with his movement. His only weaknesses back then were his ball-holding ability and ball control, but he was improving in both of those aspects. If he still isn't good enough in those, then I agree, he's not an ideal player for us, but his movement space do cause problems for the opposition.

In terms of suggestions such as Kane and Lewandowski, both have shown promise to become suited for van Gaal's striker role, especially Lewy. Kane still lacks some discipline in his movement, though he does have promise as he's good on the ball and possesses good movement as well being a clinical finisher.

I wouldn't be surprised if we made a move for Higuain. His hold up play is really underrated by many fans and he is capable of being involved in build-up play. He is a strong presence in the box, he can score goals from difficult angles and he also gets a decent amount of assists each season (he had 7 in 2014-15, i think). And except for the 2010-11 season, when he went through surgery and missed four months, he gets more than 15 goals per season for the last decade.

He's just like Giroud, though, in that he will miss every shot in crucial matches. Even though he scored lots of goals, he was known to choke on the big occasions for Real Madrid, and I still see that in him for both Argentina and Napoli nowadays. If he would fix that issue, he'd be known as a world class forward up there with Aguero, Suarez, Ibra, etc.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

The bolded part is one of the reasons van Gaal started to play Wilson ahead of Falcao for a few matches during the winter fixtures. At that time, whilst Falcao was starting to get some goals, he was poor on the ball and often gave it away.

The only reason I mentioned Chicharito is because he did quite a lot of that selfless work under Sir Alex. He was running the channels, stretching defences, and basically occupying central defenders with his movement. His only weaknesses back then were his ball-holding ability and ball control, but he was improving in both of those aspects. If he still isn't good enough in those, then I agree, he's not an ideal player for us, but his movement space do cause problems for the opposition.

In terms of suggestions such as Kane and Lewandowski, both have shown promise to become suited for van Gaal's striker role, especially Lewy. Kane still lacks some discipline in his movement, though he does have promise as he's good on the ball and possesses good movement as well being a clinical finisher.

He's just like Giroud, though, in that he will miss every shot in crucial matches. Even though he scored lots of goals, he was known to choke on the big occasions for Real Madrid, and I still see that in him for both Argentina and Napoli nowadays. If he would fix that issue, he'd be known as a world class forward up there with Aguero, Suarez, Ibra, etc.

I believe Hernandez can be a good option in formations which include two forwards and no one can doubt his work ethics. But, imo of course, you just have to look at the forwards Dutch football has produced over the last two decades to get an idea of what kind of forward LvG desires. From Bergkamp and Kluivert to RvN, RvP or even Huntelaar lately. Players to whom you can throw a ball at any speed or height and be confident that they will control it as you mentioned. But also players who can get on the ball near the edge of the box, with back or face on the goal, and make things happen either by dribbling, passing, shooting from distance or providing the right off the ball movement.

The Netherlands' first goal yesterday is an example of what i'm trying to say. Huntlelaar drops deeper to create space for Sneijder to make a run in the box. When he passes the ball, he doesn't rush into the box. He stays on the edge of it instead, he creates problems for Latvia's back four by forcing a CB to stay close to him and therefore he creates the opportunity for Wijnaldum to attack the channel between the CB and FB.

Hernandez is a different kind of player, he can't see these runs, he can't spot these opportunities. That doesn't make him a bad player but just different. He is a forward who feeds off the others' movement when LvG is searching for a player who will do the opposite, 'feed' others with his movement. Something similar happened with Klose at Bayern Munich. Miro himself admitted that LvG had shown him what to do in training but he just couldn't spot the right runs on the pitch during the game.

I agree with what you wrote about Kane and Higuan. The only problem with the former is the time he'll need to adapt to the new tactics cause there's a possibility we'll be far behind Chelsea and City by the time he does. I mentioned the latter as our most realistic target. He can get here before the trip to the States and this will give Woodward the time to negotiate other transfer deals. He's not an ideal choice but i would put my hand in the fire that he can provide 15 league goals and help the two wide players and Rooney get double figures too.

 

[devilish]

There's a difference between working hard and working smart.

Rooney does the former. A lot of running up and down, following the ball which sees him drop so far deep he's in a defensive position. Lots of heart and desire. But then we need that focal point he isn't there to do that.

Benzema is perfect since he can work the channels, play in between the lines and can play off the shoulder if needs to be. He also puts in a shift for the team but not as laborious as Rooney does, because there's no need.

In the Prem I think Giroud is like a poor mans Benzema. He's got good hold up play, good touch and can link up with the players around him. If he was a bit quicker he'd be a perfect LvG striker.

I think you're mistaken Rooney with Emile Heskey

 

[mazhar13]

I believe Hernandez can be a good option in formations which include two forwards and no one can doubt his work ethics. But, imo of course, you just have to look at the forwards Dutch football has produced over the last two decades to get an idea of what kind of forward LvG desires. From Bergkamp and Kluivert to RvN, RvP or even Huntelaar lately. Players to whom you can throw a ball at any speed or height and be confident that they will control it as you mentioned. But also players who can get on the ball near the edge of the box, with back or face on the goal, and make things happen either by dribbling, passing, shooting from distance or providing the right off the ball movement.

The Netherlands' first goal yesterday is an example of what i'm trying to say. Huntlelaar drops deeper to create space for Sneijder to make a run in the box. When he passes the ball, he doesn't rush into the box. He stays on the edge of it instead, he creates problems for Latvia's back four by forcing a CB to stay close to him and therefore he creates the opportunity for Wijnaldum to attack the channel between the CB and FB.

Hernandez is a different kind of player, he can't see these runs, he can't spot these opportunities. That doesn't make him a bad player but just different. He is a forward who feeds off the others' movement when LvG is searching for a player who will do the opposite, 'feed' others with his movement. Something similar happened with Klose at Bayern Munich. Miro himself admitted that LvG had shown him what to do in training but he just couldn't spot the right runs on the pitch during the game.

I agree with what you wrote about Kane and Higuan. The only problem with the former is the time he'll need to adapt to the new tactics cause there's a possibility we'll be far behind Chelsea and City by the time he does. I mentioned the latter as our most realistic target. He can get here before the trip to the States and this will give Woodward the time to negotiate other transfer deals. He's not an ideal choice but i would put my hand in the fire that he can provide 15 league goals and help the two wide players and Rooney get double figures too.

You do make a good point Re: Chicharito. He's most likely to make runs beyond defences and try to get into goalscoring positions rather than aid the team and drag defences around to create spaces for others.

Now, with regards to our transfer options, there aren't that many available that I believe can instantly integrate into our team. I've been thinking about our forward options for a while, and there aren't that many available. I honestly think that we could be best off sticking with van Persie, Rooney, and Wilson, but if we do let go of van Persie, then we'll need to get the right sort of player to join us. I was thinking that Kramaric may possibly suit us as he is quite good on the ball and is a cheaper option than Kane at the moment.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

You do make a good point Re: Chicharito. He's most likely to make runs beyond defences and try to get into goalscoring positions rather than aid the team and drag defences around to create spaces for others.

Now, with regards to our transfer options, there aren't that many available that I believe can instantly integrate into our team. I've been thinking about our forward options for a while, and there aren't that many available. I honestly think that we could be best off sticking with van Persie, Rooney, and Wilson, but if we do let go of van Persie, then we'll need to get the right sort of player to join us. I was thinking that Kramaric may possibly suit us as he is quite good on the ball and is a cheaper option than Kane at the moment.

Yes, it would be a bad choice to let RvP go before we find the right replacement for him. There are two big question marks about RvP's future at the club though. The first is LvG's training staff assessment of him. They have a much clearer picture regarding his fitness levels and whether he is capable of performing at top level again or not. The second is if RvP himself has no problem to start from the bench next season.

I do agree that our choices are limited. Assuming that we will continue to work on our 4-3-3, it seems almost certain that Rooney can only be utilized as the lone forward. If RvP stays at the club, then we'll be ok. But if that's not the case, we'll have to sign someone who will be as good as Rooney (at least on paper) but also able to play on the wings as an inside forward without complaining about it. That's why i mentioned Higuain and i think that's one of the reasons we keep seeing Cavani's name in the papers/sites the last one and half year. The 4-3-3 with two inside forwards on the wings is a tactic LvG likes to use a lot and it's the only way Rooney as the lone forward will work.

This all can change of course, if LvG decides to switch to a 4-2-3-1 formation. You mentioned in one of your posts (not on this thread) that Rooney's best position is behind the striker and i agree with that. Furthermore, LvG has worked miracles with players like Litmanen and Muller in that particular role and i'm pretty sure that he wants to try the same thing with Rooney at some point. But as a possession based team that wants to press in the midfield and maintain a high defensive line, we'll need a far more compact midfield than an aging Carrick or Blind and Herrera to play that formation at top level. By saying compact, i mean a more mobile midfield with the required urgency and aggressiveness when we are not in possession.

It's going to be an interest summer and i'm curious to see LvG's choices. I haven't watched Kramaric tbh but i know that he's considered a big talent. If RvP stays at the club, he could be a good choice for us.

 

[mazhar13]

Yes, it would be a bad choice to let RvP go before we find the right replacement for him. There are two big question marks about RvP's future at the club though. The first is LvG's training staff assessment of him. They have a much clearer picture regarding his fitness levels and whether he is capable of performing at top level again or not. The second is if RvP himself has no problem to start from the bench next season.

I do agree that our choices are limited. Assuming that we will continue to work on our 4-3-3, it seems almost certain that Rooney can only be utilized as the lone forward. If RvP stays at the club, then we'll be ok. But if that's not the case, we'll have to sign someone who will be as good as Rooney (at least on paper) but also able to play on the wings as an inside forward without complaining about it. That's why i mentioned Higuain and i think that's one of the reasons we keep seeing Cavani's name in the papers/sites the last one and half year. The 4-3-3 with two inside forwards on the wings is a tactic LvG likes to use a lot and it's the only way Rooney as the lone forward will work.

This all can change of course, if LvG decides to switch to a 4-2-3-1 formation. You mentioned in one of your posts (not on this thread) that Rooney's best position is behind the striker and i agree with that. Furthermore, LvG has worked miracles with players like Litmanen and Muller in that particular role and i'm pretty sure that he wants to try the same thing with Rooney at some point. But as a possession based team that wants to press in the midfield and maintain a high defensive line, we'll need a far more compact midfield than an aging Carrick or Blind and Herrera to play that formation at top level. By saying compact, i mean a more mobile midfield with the required urgency and aggressiveness when we are not in possession.

It's going to be an interest summer and i'm curious to see LvG's choices. I haven't watched Kramaric tbh but i know that he's considered a big talent. If RvP stays at the club, he could be a good choice for us.

On the contrary, van Gaal's inside wingers aren't just pure wide forwards. His wingers, regardless of whether it's a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1, are supposed to be good dribblers, have a good ball control, quick and pacy, and also be good chance creators. Hence, players like Berahino, Lacazette, or Higuain aren't the best suited to that role. It's also why he tried to play Rivaldo out wide for Barcelona rather than up front as he was also a very good chance creator.

I also think that van Gaal's building his team up for the 4-2-3-1 rather than the 4-3-3. I'm sure that's why he played Falcao less often and started playing Rooney up top at the second half of the season. It's also why he started playing Fellaini much higher up and Herrera in a more disciplined role. Finally, he also mentioned looking for a right-sided defensive midfielder, which means that's definitely going for a similar setup to Ajax and Bayern Munich. Hence, we should expect him to get a striker to be more of a team player with Rooney behind him. I don't know if van Gaal would like him, but I think Gabbiadini could be a decent option for such a striker role. Like Kramaric, he's dynamic, good on the ball, and a decent team player, and he'd be an ideal player for van Gaal to shape up, just like Kramaric and Kane.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

On the contrary, van Gaal's inside wingers aren't just pure wide forwards. His wingers, regardless of whether it's a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1, are supposed to be good dribblers, have a good ball control, quick and pacy, and also be good chance creators. Hence, players like Berahino, Lacazette, or Higuain aren't the best suited to that role. It's also why he tried to play Rivaldo out wide for Barcelona rather than up front as he was also a very good chance creator.

I also think that van Gaal's building his team up for the 4-2-3-1 rather than the 4-3-3. I'm sure that's why he played Falcao less often and started playing Rooney up top at the second half of the season. It's also why he started playing Fellaini much higher up and Herrera in a more disciplined role. Finally, he also mentioned looking for a right-sided defensive midfielder, which means that's definitely going for a similar setup to Ajax and Bayern Munich. Hence, we should expect him to get a striker to be more of a team player with Rooney behind him. I don't know if van Gaal would like him, but I think Gabbiadini could be a decent option for such a striker role. Like Kramaric, he's dynamic, good on the ball, and a decent team player, and he'd be an ideal player for van Gaal to shape up, just like Kramaric and Kane.

Yeah, you are right about that. I was a bit over the top there and i should have written inverted wingers. Nevertheless, i think LvG would've signed Cavani in a heartbeat last season, if he had that opportunity. We desperately lacked a player who would try to get in good positions in the box and link with the forward. Di Maria can do that but he's not a prolific goalscorer and Cavani can still get past defenders. It's true that Higuain can only play up front with Rooney behind him in van Gaal's tactics.

Gabbiadini is an interesting player, nice first touch, good anticipation and vision. And i've seen him score goals in several different ways, long shots, headers, classic forward movements in the box etc. Not bad at all.

 

[Nikhil]

Get Will Keane and Jesse Lingard back from loan. Get Chicharitp back as well. He's good at scoring goals when he comes off the bench. He's scored vital goals for us as a substitute. He can start all the cup games as well. Rooney and van Persie can play the league games.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

I rekon van gaal will try wilson out at RW. Has pace to burn and a fantastic left foot.

Judging by van gaals rule book; that says he just might work there.

 

[mazhar13]

I rekon van gaal will try wilson out at RW. Has pace to burn and a fantastic left foot.

Judging by van gaals rule book; that says he just might work there.

Wilson doesn't have the dribbling or final ball for that role, IMO. Looking at the sort of players he's played out wide, they've all been good dribblers with a good delivery from wide areas. The only exception to that is Muller but that was only when Robben was injured and because his deliveries from wide areas were still very good.

Unless Wilson can show that he can get past his markers from a standing position and put in good deliveries from wide areas, I doubt we'll see him anywhere else except as a striker.

 

[Borys]

I would rather see Januzaj on right wing. Wilson is quicker but in our setup we need players with good close control in tight spaces. I haven't been impressed with Wilson technique to be honest.

 

[hebegebe]

I would rather see Januzaj on right wing. Wilson is quicker but in our setup we need players with good close control in tight spaces. I haven't been impressed with Wilson technique to be honest.

You can't have watched him then.

 

[Borys]

You can't have watched him then.

True. His touch was poor whenever I saw him in senior team though.

 

[Dr Fink]

I'd like Januzaj to turn up this season. It makes him a viable option. Not sure about Wilson there at RW for the reasons stated.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

If januzaj was thought to have the ability of being a RF (not a RW) i seriousky dont know why he didnt get games in that position last year. The wing positions are for forwards and that is a big part to why we didnt score as much as we liked last season.

Furthermore didnt van gaal say that he wants januzaj to play centrally possibly as a CF?

 

[mazhar13]

If januzaj was thought to have the ability of being a RF (not a RW) i seriousky dont know why he didnt get games in that position last year. The wing positions are for forwards and that is a big part to why we didnt score as much as we liked last season.

Furthermore didnt van gaal say that he wants januzaj to play centrally possibly as a CF?

I'm not sure if van Gaal said that he wanted Januzaj to play centrally more often, but he did try to play Januzaj as a central midfielder at the start of the season. Otherwise, he kept playing him out on the right wing.

Januzaj does have the finishing and goalscorer's instinct to play more of a forward role (hence why he played as a striker for us during the 2012/13 season in the U-21). He also has the close control, dribbling, and technique to draw away markers and beat them, and he also has a very good delivery from the right side. All of these qualities make him well-suited to the right wing role (both forward and creative).

However, his style of play goes against the traits posted above. He strives to be involved in play, and he always looks to be involved in the game. He wants to get into the middle, get on the ball, and dictate play from the middle. He likes to play passes through to his teammates into dangerous areas, and he wants to be more involved in the build-up and final-third phases of play. This makes me think that he could do well in a wide attacking midfield role akin to Silva, Nasri, or Hazard. Under van Gaal's setup, such a player would be consigned to the #10 role (Januzaj's natural role, IMO), and I wouldn't be too surprised if van Gaal decides to put him there instead of the right wing.