so Lindelof is this year's scape goat. when the defense does well its a defensive effort when we concede Lindelof is at fault. It's clear and obvious no VAR needed
Maguire and Lindelof Partnership
- Thread starter luke511
- Start date
The second goal against Palace was just as bad. It was unfortunate for us that it fell so perfectly to Aanholt after AWB dispossessed Zaha, but the shot was straight at DDG.
There's no point in restricting a team to a few shots per match if your keeper is going to let what should be an easy save slip through him.
to be fair that goal shouldnt be entering if we got a decent keeper, DDG has become a liability.
Yep. While we're so absolutely mediocre in attack at the moment, it's utterly essential we don't give those sort of goals away.
The Chelsea game was superb to be at, but it gave a lot of us a very false idea of how many goals we were going to be putting away this season!
When we concede first this season it's going to be tough, as our forward line is totally not built to get after a deep lying defensive layout.
Defences conceed goals, even good defences. Our current midfield options don't offer the defenders much protection, and whilst De Gea could do with a confidence boost, I believe he's still got greatness in him.
I see potential in this partnership, and given time I think we could have one of the top 3 best defences in the league with the current lineup. Is that good enough? Let's give it time. This is a young team I'm proud to support with patience.
I see potential in this partnership, and given time I think we could have one of the top 3 best defences in the league with the current lineup. Is that good enough? Let's give it time. This is a young team I'm proud to support with patience.
I can't pretend I watched him 30+ times or anything, watched Villa maybe 5/6 times last year. He was good in the air but probably worse than Smalling in terms of actual aerial challenges. Was much better at other aspects such as positioning and marking though and of course he's still very young for a centre back.
Maguire's biggest problem is probably his lack of pace. Well Lindelöf does nothing to combat that either, because he's slow himself. So we've kind of got this partnership of two pretty slow, comfortable-on-the-ball CBs. Which I don't like to be honest, we need someone quick alongside Maguire. Smalling had lots of flaws but he's fecking quick and he very rarely is beaten in the air - I'd probably have been more confident of a Smalling-Maguire partnership to be honest.
Lindelöf is the best of a bad bunch now, and Axel is the unknown quantity. I'd love to see Ole show some decisiveness here and give Axel a few games alongside Maguire.
Lindelöf is the best of a bad bunch now, and Axel is the unknown quantity. I'd love to see Ole show some decisiveness here and give Axel a few games alongside Maguire.
Against Southampton, a couple of things surprised me. Firstly, Lindelof had to take on players in foot races down the left channel, and he also had to man mark a 2m giant. Where the heck was Maguire?
Also, that goal, where was Ddg? Any half decent goalie picks that easily enough.
Also, that goal, where was Ddg? Any half decent goalie picks that easily enough.
You cant go week in week out expecting to win by scoring 1 goal per game.
Fact is that if we were scoring 3 or 4 per match conceding the odd goal wouldn't matter. That's what City had Liverpool do.
When we go ahead we sit back so deep and just invite pressure and stop playing any kind if attacking football in some inane strategy that has failed 3 games in a row.
Fact is that if we were scoring 3 or 4 per match conceding the odd goal wouldn't matter. That's what City had Liverpool do.
When we go ahead we sit back so deep and just invite pressure and stop playing any kind if attacking football in some inane strategy that has failed 3 games in a row.
Lindelof has not played well so far this season and as others have mentioned, my worry is that he's actually quite similar to Maguire, but not as good. However, it's our £80m CB and last season's best performer, so I think it's worth persisting with these two for a while yet; play Axel in the Europa and League Cup with one of the schmucks we've got kicking around. If Lindelof and Maguire still looks shaky by the next international break, then time to give Axel and The Slab a try.
What concerns me with this partnership is that Utd have really been under very little pressure so far defensively. The pressing from the front has neutralized opposition attacks and given the defensive unit a far easier time of it. Despite this, in the moments when match control has been lost and we needed the back 4 to excel they have looked highly porous.
Lindelof has taken a lot of the blame, and I am not a fan, but I don't believe that either of our CB's are particularly proven defensively. Small sample size but Leicester look to be an improved defensive unit so far this season.
Lindelof has taken a lot of the blame, and I am not a fan, but I don't believe that either of our CB's are particularly proven defensively. Small sample size but Leicester look to be an improved defensive unit so far this season.
Last edited:
Our defence is like Arsenal a few years back where they would have 1 or 2 quality ones and the rest were a bit meh. Lindelof is one of the meh's
Not really an excuse, neither Terry or Carvahlo were blessed with pace and they were the foundations of that Chelsea squad.
We already spent 80m in Maguire and now you want another CB? Even if we have Maguire next to De Ligt, we are going to concede goals.
We need to invest in other positions first, if we sign another defender it should be someone cheap or even free, maybe Alderweireld.
We need to invest in other positions first, if we sign another defender it should be someone cheap or even free, maybe Alderweireld.
Here are the 4 goals United have conceded:
Neves:
Ayew:
Van Aanholt:
Vestergaard:
Neves: Fair enough. It's a wonder strike. But a natural DM at the edge of the box would have closed him down quicker and maybe even put him off.
Ayew: Lindelof got beaten to a header by a midget.
Van Aanholt: Mata was playing as DM after McTominay's substitution, when Pogba had a brainfart. A natural DM would have never left that much space in front of the defence for Van Aanholt to waltz into the box
Vestergaard: Lindelof got out muscled on a header without even getting his body in the way of the attacker's jump.
For those asking where Maguire was on all of Lindelof's missed headers, the answer is that he was on the other side of the pitch. It was obvious that the opposition centre forwards were targetting Lindelof, and standing off him on purpose. The moment that Vestergaard scored, it's no coincidence that Southampton brought on Long and put him right on Lindelof's toes.
The answer to United's conundrum is easy. We need a DM to plug the massive hole in front of defence. If it's a DM who can head the ball, all the better. But if it's a short arse in the mould of Kante, we need a better aerial presence than Lindelof at RCB because he's a weak link that every team knows to exploit.
McTominay isn't the answer at DM, btw. He's a fantastic presser when the ball is in front of him. But he doesn't have the instincts to defend the space behind him.
Moving Pogba away from deep midfield would also help. His easy dispossessions are way too costly when he's supposed to be the last man screening our defence.
The issue is not as straightforward as just talking about the CB partnership. Any decent team defends as a whole, but the pieces of our jigsaw are misaligned. In particular, the gaps between midfield and defence are too big to compensate for the shortcomings of the individual defenders.
Neves:
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Ayew:
Van Aanholt:
Vestergaard:
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Neves: Fair enough. It's a wonder strike. But a natural DM at the edge of the box would have closed him down quicker and maybe even put him off.
Ayew: Lindelof got beaten to a header by a midget.
Van Aanholt: Mata was playing as DM after McTominay's substitution, when Pogba had a brainfart. A natural DM would have never left that much space in front of the defence for Van Aanholt to waltz into the box
Vestergaard: Lindelof got out muscled on a header without even getting his body in the way of the attacker's jump.
For those asking where Maguire was on all of Lindelof's missed headers, the answer is that he was on the other side of the pitch. It was obvious that the opposition centre forwards were targetting Lindelof, and standing off him on purpose. The moment that Vestergaard scored, it's no coincidence that Southampton brought on Long and put him right on Lindelof's toes.
The answer to United's conundrum is easy. We need a DM to plug the massive hole in front of defence. If it's a DM who can head the ball, all the better. But if it's a short arse in the mould of Kante, we need a better aerial presence than Lindelof at RCB because he's a weak link that every team knows to exploit.
McTominay isn't the answer at DM, btw. He's a fantastic presser when the ball is in front of him. But he doesn't have the instincts to defend the space behind him.
Moving Pogba away from deep midfield would also help. His easy dispossessions are way too costly when he's supposed to be the last man screening our defence.
The issue is not as straightforward as just talking about the CB partnership. Any decent team defends as a whole, but the pieces of our jigsaw are misaligned. In particular, the gaps between midfield and defence are too big to compensate for the shortcomings of the individual defenders.
I don't know if it is a standard Southampton tactic but from the kick off they lined their team up on the left and tried to load the ball on top of Lindelof.
It is known.
It is known.
We should have signed 2 centre backs, a right back, 2 central midfielders and a right winger in the summer as the minimum.
I thought Lindelof did ok the first couple of games but since his weaknesses have been apparent and as I worried all summer and others are already mentioning, he is actually similar to Maguire but rubbish in the air and not as good at anything else, he is an average defender at best and probably the worst partner for Maguire too out of the remaining centre backs we have. We really should have signed two but instead we sign one and then agree to loan defensively the only other good defender we have and rely on Tuanzabe maybe stepping up or even worse, people including the management actually thinking Lindelof is actually a good defender, he really isnt
Saying all that though, the defence isnt our weakest area now, its the fact we are just creating hardly anything in any game, even the Chelsea game was masked by the fact we scored from nearly every chance we created, pretty much as we did in that honeymoon period last season.
Really we are only creative on the break due to the pace we have in the side, largely this season we have dominated the ball for large periods without a clue of what to do with it in the final third
It’s been incredibly tough even when scoring first.
To be fair, it was in the dead zone between legs and arms. The Athletic ran a piece on this which basically said it is one of the worst places for a keeper to save when the shot is started so close. And also that it is a myth that near-post shots should be easily saves every time.
But, DDG had some bad body positioning in the seconds before which made it even more difficult.
Its a whole new backline, it takes some time to make the cooperation optimal. Its quite normal. At least they learned some from the CP and always had a safety when Lindelof was in a head duel higher up.
It's still early in the partnership and it is showing promise. Lindelof has had a few dodgy moments in the last 2-3 games but is a talented defender, I have faith that they will come good. He will have to work on his aerial ability though so that he doesn't become a target week in week out.
No one picked up Vestergard even on the corner, he ran in unapposed towards the near post, then he moved back out again, where he remained alone, Pogba was the nearest player to him, and should have closed him down, and/or prevented his run, Lindelof could have also picked him up as he was reasonably close, but Vestergard was allowed a free run, so got the jump on Lindelof who was pretty much jumping from a standing start, not sure Maguire would have got to the ball if he had been in that position, but he may well have put Vestergard off from a clean header. I like Tuanzebe, but I don't think he would have done any better.
Not sure it's the right pairing as they are quite similar in a lot of ways, though I wouldn't be righting them off yet as a partnership till they've had at least a dozen matches together, probably more - of the players available I think Jones and Maguire would be a better fit, and maybe push Lindelof forward as a shield and let Matic go to a retirement home of his choice.
I think most of the Caf would have saved that shot blindfolded. He goes with his hands when he could have just stuck his foot out, and he goes with his feet when you expect him to save it with his hands, very unconventional! He seems to be doing it regularly, I'm anxious these days with any half decent shots coming at him.
Id agree with this . Our defence wont be anything special while we have a midfield as weak as we do.
It's pretty certain we're going to have one super long hard season.
There will be unexpected super head scratcher highs like the 4-0 Chelsea game, where it all comes off, but a lot of games where you wonder how the hell our front lot are even remotely rated.
I would like to see Bailly as Maguires partner, if he can stay non-injured for more than 20 minutes. Lindelof flatters to deceive and can't head the ball. What f..king use if a centre half who can't head the ball clear?
Don't know if it answers your question, but Bailly is one of the worst in the league when it comes to heading the ball.
Smalling was good in the air but his abilities get more and more exaggerated for every day. Last season he lost 2 aerial duels per game on average which corresponded to 35% of all his aerial duels. So I wouldn't say he "definitely wouldn't have lost those two headers" as it is highly likely he had lost one of them actually.
It is also a bit exaggerated to say that if he played those two matches we would have had 5 more points, at least- maybe even more how that is possible.
Palace and Southampton did nothing all game, the only two moments he was asked to defend he completely messed up! Smalling was average but I feel like he would of dealt with those two moments.
Getting rid of Smalling was reckless considering he was our 2nd-3rd best cb and had that one asset maggy lacks ie pace
Ole just loves British players. That's it.
It is very speculative to guess the outcome of the two matches if he had played instead. Maybe also the outcome of the Chelsea game would have been different.
United's goal against Southampton came after Lindelof played his way out in a way that was part of building up for the goal. He also dealt with several situations in good ways, we will never know if Smalling had done that better/worse/same way. With Smalling it is likely to have been a different type of football which could have led to more chances (in both ways).
As you said, there were more or less only two moments, but that is a testament to how good the defence worked as a whole. Because it is not as Lindelof didn't do anything. As example he won 7 aerial duels out of 9 and had 5 clearances against Southampton.
If we look at the two headers I am personally confident Smalling would have won the first but 50/50 on the second. But he could also have lost both. Maguire went up for a similar header against Adams who weigh 30 kg less and is 20 cm shorter. Not even Maguire managed to control the ball so it went straight to the opposition who could go for attack behind him. Lindelof covered however and could take control the ball.
After watching today's matches, it looks like United has the best defence in Manchester. Think they had their best match together today and they understand eachother better and better.
That was Tuanzebe's fault the most, but such positioning from our entire set of ball playing defenders. It's good that they know how to pass the ball though.
Edit: And another one, great stuff.
Edit: And another one, great stuff.
You can't talk about the goal being a positioning issue. Maguire dropped to give Tuanzebe a passing option. In that area, that mistake was absolutely costly.
But aside from that, they don't look the most inspiring partnership yet.
There is a clear difference between Aubameyang's reaction and Lindelof and Maguire's. That for me is a difference between good striker and poor defenders, or defenders that are there to attack first and defend second. Maguire didn't even think about defending(his reaction was probably even worse than linesman's), while Auba immediately noticed it was a bad pass and started running. Lindelof was in no man's land and had no right being there in line with Tuanzebe so high up the pitch, one of midfielders should be standing there.
Defenders pretending to be midfielder's and doing what they aren't supposed to do will probably cost us a win today.
Maguire was never getting to that ball once the mistake was made. We'll have to agree to disagree on him making a mistake there.
But I do agree that Lindelof should've been deeper and a CM there to receive the pass.
You don't know what you're looking at. Players position themselves to receive the ball. You can't do that and position yourself on the off chance another player gives a simple ball away on the edge of your box.
Of course he wasn't, but even his reaction was late. Compare him with Aubameyang.
But I am fine with Maguire so far though, but Lindelof is obviously a nothing player people seem to overrate for some reason. For example Evans was far better defender than him, and was nothing worse than him with the ball, and yet everyone seemed to hate him.