Maguire and Lindelof Partnership

[Ekeke]

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/ferdinand-unconvinced-by-man-utd-defensive-duo

Rio Ferdinand is not convinced that Harry Maguire and Victor Lindelof are a strong enough combination to bring major trophies to Manchester United.

There wasn’t a problem for the central defensive pairing on Wednesday night when United blasted RB Leipzig 5-0. Marcus Rashford was the star of the show with a hat-trick.


And they also kept Chelsea out in a lacklustre 0-0 draw at Old Trafford last weekend.


But the duo played together when United shipped five goals in their opening two Premier League games. They were the 3-1 home defeat by Crystal Palace and 3-2 win at Brighton.


And Maguire played the full 90 minutes – this time alongside Eric Bailly – when United were thrashed 6-1 at home by Tottenham.


But Ferdinand, one of United’s standout central defenders in the modern era, remains dubious that they have the desired quality. And he’s particularly concerned when the duo are up against pace.


Talking about the Maguire-Lindelof* pairing, he told BT Sport: “Is it good enough? I’d probably say no, if you’re trying to win the top competitions.


“Yes, last season they had a good defensive record. But I just see moments in games where they get opened up, they get physically dominated at times, especially in terms of pace. Especially if their protection isn’t what you’d expect it to be if the game opens up a little bit.


“If the game opens up and they’re on the halfway line and they’re playing one-v-one or two-v-two, then I fear for my life in that situation.


“If the team shape is fine and it’s all set up properly, then they look a decent pairing.”

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I still think despite their limitations and weaknesses they are about the best partnership in the league (which to be fair says a lot about the overall quality). I wouldn’t mind Tuanzebe getting some minutes added into those partnerships but Maguire and Lindelof deserve far more respect than they receive here. Both are very good players.

 

[OleTheGreat]

Maguire and Lindelof are good defenders and they have always been good aside from a few daunting decisions. But we need a CB like Upamecano to drive into midfield and make things happen. We're too slow with them 2 at the back. Maguire always looks for Shaw or Lindelof while Lindelof always looks for Maguire or Aaron. We need someone who can push and find the midfielders or sometimes go long and find the forwards.

 

[RedSky]

Maguire and Lindelof are good defenders and they have always been good aside from a few daunting decisions. But we need a CB like Upamecano to drive into midfield and make things happen. We're too slow with them 2 at the back. Maguire always looks for Shaw or Lindelof while Lindelof always looks for Maguire or Aaron. We need someone who can push and find the midfielders or sometimes go long and find the forwards.

I have noticed Lindelof do that a little bit recently. I'd say Lindelof and Maguire have so far proven to be a decent partnership capable when on form of being a very good partnership. We've managed to get a decent amount of clean sheets in 2020 and that's due to them. Maguire is capable of covering Lindelofs weakness (bad in the air) but Lindelof can't cover for Maguires weakness (being slow as feck). That's ultimately the issue with their partnership, if Lindelof was a little bit quicker, then it'd be fantastic.

I think they're a solid partnership though and it gives us a strong base to work with, but it can be improved on.

 

[glazed]

They're OK but quite limited and often get exposed by clever oppositions. They look a lot better behind a defensive screen of Fred/Matic/McTom- but then who doesn't.

If I had to lose one to bring in a Rio type star or bring on Axel, it would be Lindelof. Maguire/Ferdinand looks sexier than Lindelof/Ferdinand.

 

[11101]

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/ferdinand-unconvinced-by-man-utd-defensive-duo

That's why we have gone to two proper central midfielders, to cut out the long balls into the channels and provide that defensive cover. They are good enough defenders that we can use actual midfielders, instead of needing two defensive mids sitting back and doing absolutely nothing going forward, as we used to have to do with Smalling and Jones.

We will always have to have that setup as long as we don't have dedicated wide players. With our fullbacks going forward so much to provide the width, there will always be gaps in the defence that need to be filled by midfielders. All pace does is help us cover those gaps more quickly and stop players running in to them. It's nice to have it but i can't think of (m)any current defenders who have real pace that are also good enough at reading the game to avoid using it to recover mistakes.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

They are world class defenders still. Just need better performances around them which they got recently.
We will see if they can improve as a pair this season.

 

[Mr PG]

Maguire and Lindelof are good defenders and they have always been good aside from a few daunting decisions. But we need a CB like Upamecano to drive into midfield and make things happen. We're too slow with them 2 at the back. Maguire always looks for Shaw or Lindelof while Lindelof always looks for Maguire or Aaron. We need someone who can push and find the midfielders or sometimes go long and find the forwards.

As ferdinand said they look good due to protection from midfield. God I still can’t believe we actually paid £80m for Maguire.

 

[RealBarcelonaUnited]

They are world class defenders still. Just need better performances around them which they got recently.
We will see if they can improve as a pair this season.

Don't think either of them is world class defenders, far from it.
Having said that, with the protection in the form of Fred + McT in front of them, they can be quite good as a pair.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

How quickly the tide turns... since when are they world class? or Lindelof being top level?

They need two of Fred/Matic/McT in front of them, it's why we got the good defensive stats last season. Everything goes to poop once Pogba replaced either one of the MacFredic. Also they need the good defensive abilities of AWB and Shaw to completely patch everything. Missing one and cracks will be obvious.

On their own, defensively they are extremely exposed. However, both of them are really good on the ball so really good in passing from the back, possession and good support when building-up play. Could even initiate attacks with their long passes or when they bring the ball forward and join in attacks. It's how we nowadays play, and it's useful vs the low blocks team - our worst daily problem.

 

[Ekeke]

As ferdinand said they look good due to protection from midfield. God I still can’t believe we actually paid £80m for Maguire.

And fullbacks.

 

[Ekeke]

How quickly the tide turns... since when are they world class? or Lindelof being top level?

They need two of Fred/Matic/McT in front of them, it's why we got the good defensive stats last season. Everything goes to poop once Pogba replaced either one of the MacFredic. Also they need the good defensive abilities of AWB and Shaw to completely patch everything. Missing one and cracks will be obvious.

On their own, defensively they are extremely exposed. However, both of them are really good on the ball so really good in passing from the back, possession and good support when building-up play. Could even initiate attacks with their long passes or when they bring the ball forward and join in attacks. It's how we nowadays play, and it's useful vs the low blocks team - our worst daily problem.

Is it? Because thats where we have all our trouble. In big matches we usually do well playing a counter and getting a goal and sitting back. Against smaller teams is where we get exposed. So if we have Cbs perfect for those matches how come we are so bad in them?

 

[eire-red]

I think they compliment each other quite well, the only thing missing is that element of pace, which to be fair is common among many CB pairings.

I think the evolution of the high line has increased the element of high percentage football we're seeing now, teams are trying to find that risk-reward balance in terms of believing with the high line, you'll win more often than not.

In modern football, I think control of the midfield and posession is more pivotal to defensive performance than the actual defensive units. One thing worth noting now though is how much more proficient defenders have to be in 1 on 1 scenarios. You see a lot more of them now as opposed to Rio's time.

In short, I think more modern managers will judge defenders on their defensive abilities, but also how they contribute to a teams 'style of play', whereas pundits are often drawn into stats such as clean sheets or highlighting moments of defences being caught open. It's not so black and white anymore.

 

[OrcaFat]

These two are both good defensively and on the ball, when fit and in form. And provided the team defends properly in front of them and doesn’t get caught arsing about, there’s no serious problem.

But it’s no secret we’ve been looking for a left footed CB. I’m not sure if that implies Maguire would ideally rather be playing RCB...?

Anyway I think they are both underrated individually. Maguire has been below par here and there but more often than not he looks commanding, I‘m glad we bought him and £80 mil is fine by me. Glad it wasn’t my money of course but, in broad terms, if you try and buy cheaper players they are not as good.

 

[OrcaFat]

I think they compliment each other quite well, the only thing missing is that element of pace, which to be fair is common among many CB pairings.

I think the evolution of the high line has increased the element of high percentage football we're seeing now, teams are trying to find that risk-reward balance in terms of believing with the high line, you'll win more often than not.

In modern football, I think control of the midfield and posession is more pivotal to defensive performance than the actual defensive units. One thing worth noting now though is how much more proficient defenders have to be in 1 on 1 scenarios. You see a lot more of them now as opposed to Rio's time.

In short, I think more modern managers will judge defenders on their defensive abilities, but also how they contribute to a teams 'style of play', whereas pundits are often drawn into stats such as clean sheets or highlighting moments of defences being caught open. It's not so black and white anymore.

Oh that’s a pretty interesting post, by the way.

 

[AltiUn]

https://www.teamtalk.com/news/ferdinand-unconvinced-by-man-utd-defensive-duo

He's not wrong, we've got our entire defensive system built around protecting them, that tells me Soslkjaer doesn't trust them that much either.

 

[Robbie Boy]

They're not really a great partnership and I think Ole knows it. I'm still slightly baffled as to why he signed Maguire.

 

[wolvored]

They are world class defenders still. Just need better performances around them which they got recently.
We will see if they can improve as a pair this season.

No not anywhere near WC.

 

[Ekeke]

He's not wrong, we've got our entire defensive system built around protecting them, that tells me Soslkjaer doesn't trust them that much either.

Yeah pretty obvious, just people are more likely to listen to Rio.

 

[Bondi77]

Lindelof was good the other night but I think the bad games outweigh the good from what I have seen of him and I just cannot rate a central defender that is not good in the air and is not quick or brave in the tackle.

 

[KW2006]

People say we are the "third best" team in terms of defending in the Premiership last season, so Maguire and Lindelof can't be too bad, right?

But not only we always play with 2 DMC, also AWB & Shaw are two of the best defending fullbacks in the world.

So Maguire and Lindelof are very well protected, but they still look incapable more often than not.

IMO they are two good centerbacks, could do a job in a mid-table team. But are they Stam, Rio, Vidic? No.

 

[OrcaFat]

People say we are the "third best" team in terms of defending in the Premiership last season, so Maguire and Lindelof can't be too bad, right?

But not only we always play with 2 DMC, also AWB & Shaw are two of the best defending fullbacks in the world.

So Maguire and Lindelof are very well protected, but they still look incapable more often than not.

IMO they are two good centerbacks, could do a job in a mid-table team. But are they Stam, Rio, Vidic? No.

Some of this is a bit of a stretch but I don’t disagree with the essence.

However, the only defender in the world who is close to being as good as peak Rio is VVD. Stam and Vidic would also walk into more or less every team on the planet. If there are clear upgrades on the players we have (in every position, as it goes, but certainly at CB) we should try to get them but I doubt we’ll be able to get them (whoever they are).

 

[Ekeke]

Some of this is a bit of a stretch but I don’t disagree with the essence.

However, the only defender in the world who is close to being as good as peak Rio is VVD. Stam and Vidic would also walk into more or less every team on the planet. If there are clear upgrades on the players we have (in every position, as it goes, but certainly at CB) we should try to get them but I doubt we’ll be able to get them (whoever they are).

Its not much of a stretch. AWB was bought for his defending and wasnt cheap, Shaw is better defensively than most of the alternatives but they might be better in attack. They havent always had the 2 DM protection, sometimes Matic has been poor other times hes been really good. And next to him defensively Pogba provides less than most players getting picked in DM. But theres also been plenty of matches where Fred or McTominay have played because of Pogba's injury so most of the time they are an extremely insulated pair of CBs.

Now DDG's odd shot stopping lapses cant really be accounted for but until the last few weeks I think its fair to say that overall he was doing worse with his shot stopping than most of the keepers at our rivals. Thats part of it too. But as a whole there were £120 million of reinforcements bought the summer before this one, and we played with 2 DMs because Pogba was unavailable so often. So you really couldnt fortify them much more in terms of formation and personnel. Atletico Madrid were probably the only side that help protect their defense more with their setup of having central midfielders playing in RM and LM and helping to win the ball.

 

[Oliver_]

what the hell is Ole's problem with Tuanzebe?!

 

[DoneDaDa]

Wasn't Maguire pretty solid at Leicester? Or just one of those one season wonder types?

 

[Tapori]

what the hell is Ole's problem with Tuanzebe?!

Probably easing him back in after a lengthy absence. His time will come soon.

 

[arthurka]

Hate it

 

[united for life]

Magulof were pretty good but they'll be up against better forwards than what they faced today.

the problem with these two is that individually they are average. Nothing special about them. They can click (which is still work in progress), but this doesn’t take away the fact that they are both average.

 

[MrEarl]

I suggest it helps to look at the Maguire Lindelof duo within the context of the whole back four and how the opposition is playing. Maguire and Lindelof are quite good or at least a lot better against teams that don't press. But when the opposition employs an effective high press the Man Utd defense has a problem getting out of its own end. Only one of the back four (Shaw) has the speed and the ball skills to break through such a press. That's why Man Utd couldn't get out of its own end against Arsenal, especially in the first half. We need to either replace one of the four with a ball playing defender or stop playing the ball out of our back when the opposition is pressing high effectively. It doesn't make sense to keep on trying to play the ball out of the back when facing a high press with that back four. If you don't have the players that can do it, time to change. Einstein's definition of insanity is to keep on trying the same thing that's failing expecting a different result.

 

[romufc]

We need to start pushing up higher on the pitch, tuanzebe has to play now.

 

[Amar__]

Absolutely worst partnership in the sea of bad partnerships we've had over the years.

Lindelof is soft and passive as feck and should be nowhere near starting XI for a team aspiring for any titles, and Maguire is Maguire.

 

[Paranoid Android]

Honestly, they should both (together and individually) be nowhere near a Manchester United starting lineup.

 

[Castia]

Winning nothing with these 2 useless cnuts.

Maguire at 80m must be one of the worst deals in football history

 

[Leg-End]

I think it’s fair to say we won’t be firing on all cylinders with this pairing. Maguire isn’t going anywhere but they need to find a partner for him to cover his weaknesses, or we won’t go up a level.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Just an accident waiting to happen, really. Bailly in prone to the odd error as well, but his pace makes up for a lot, and at least he is entertaining to watch.

 

[Ludens the Red]

In my years watching United, the only defensive partnership as disconnected and as much as a liability as these two was Brown and Blanc. They're not terrible individuals but they really do not compliment each other. The three goals today were the epitome of that. The first goal the lack of pace from Maguire is why we can't really play with such expansive wing backs . We can't trust these two to deal with one on ones. I literally shit the bed anytime these two have to defend one on one.

The second goal is a lack of communication, Maguire stood right behind lindelof with an easy header clear but he doesn't show command and lindelof does a poor header and it goes straight to doucoure.

Third goal I don't even have clue what either of them were doing. One of them should have been right on DCL.

I find their defending very passive in general, Maguire occasionally shows some authority defending aerial balls but not when it's from set pieces for some reason, when’s set piece comes in he is usually hiding behind someone as seen today and against Sheffield.

For me these two or at least one, is the positions we most need an upgrade in . More so than at right wing or central midfield.

As well as we've attacked in these last two games and it's been very good to see these two are a giant liability made even worse by the goalkeeper behind them who at this point him starting games is an active hindrance to our chances at winning.

 

[Knux]

Need upgrades on both of them unfortunaly. Too bad Bailly is so injuryprone. Would love to see a Bailly / Upamecano / Konate partnership

 

[Ralph1386]

Why does Ole not see what we see in this partnership?

 

[PlayerOne]

It's funny, the winning run that got us to the top started with Bailly starting games. I hope Ole brings in as soon as he's fit in again. Not buying a CB in the last window might end up really costing us.

 

[UnitedRepublic]

Ole should of given Smalling a chance to be honest. Passing it out from the back ain't working for us
Smallings a superb old school defender he might not have the feet, but he has pace and some balls when defending.
I constantly see us resorting to hoof the ball up. There would be no difference except for that we'd be better in the air,
safer at the back and he would compliment Maguire quite well. Remember Smalling used to score a couple each season aswell.
They don't call him Smalldini for nothing.