Maguire is good on the ball

[meamth]

I'm getting annoyed by caf football experts saying Maguire is terrible on the ball, incompetent ball playing CB. Shut up. Back us up with stats, and facts.
Stop the stupid agenda.

Looking at data provided by Smarterscout, which uses an advanced algorithm to measure a players playing style, Maguire is rated an outstanding 97 out of 99 in their Dribble Style Ratings category. They define this particular style rating as “moving the ball by advancing it uncontested at least 10% of the length of the field or by taking on a player”.

Not only is Maguire adept with the ball at his feet, but he is also a willing and capable passer. According to WhoScored, amongst all central defenders in the Premier League this season, Maguire ranked 2nd in total passes, and 3rd in accurate long balls.



Even more impressive is the fact that he led all central defenders in Key Passes, with a total of 17. Here is an example of his distribution in the buildup phase against Southampton, a match where United were often being pressed high and aggressively from Southampton’s front two of Che Adams and Danny Ings.

https://breakingthelines.com/player...ly is Maguire adept,rd in accurate long balls.

 

[acnumber9]

Is there a stat for how long it takes a player to play a pass? Because an important part of being a good passer is the ability to do it quickly.

 

[meamth]

Is there a stat for how long it takes a player to play a pass? Because an important part of being a good passer is the ability to do it quickly.

Why is that an issue? A CB dwells on the ball to play it safe. Fast and direct approach at the back is suicidal.

 

[harms]

Why is that an issue? A CB dwells on the ball to play it safe. Fast and direct approach at the back is suicidal.

Because long passing is rarely effective (effective, not accurate) if it's played after a big pause. It gives the opposition time to regroup and cover all the vulnerable zones.

I'm not sure that I trust "an advanced algorithm" that judges players dribbling style on moving the ball forward uncontested.

He's not bad with the ball, that's a huge exaggeration. He's not a great ball-playing center back either, which is evident if we compare him to the likes of Bonucci, Boateng, Ramos and even Van Dijk though.

 

[acnumber9]

Why is that an issue? A CB dwells on the ball to play it safe. Fast and direct approach at the back is suicidal.

Why is it an issue to take an age to play a pass? Do you watch football or just read stats? There’s a difference between playing it safe and waiting an eternity to play a safe pass that could’ve been played sooner.

 

[WR10]

Why is that an issue? A CB dwells on the ball to play it safe. Fast and direct approach at the back is suicidal.

Oh god. Please never play on the same football team as me. The speed of a pass is a measure of a player's combination of mental quickness and technical proficiency. The quicker the pass is made, the more gaps are exploited as you don't give opponents a chance to telegraph and prepare.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Is there a stat for how long it takes a player to play a pass? Because an important part of being a good passer is the ability to do it quickly.

It's important to pass the ball with purpose. It's not about to do it quickly or slowly. There is no reason to pass it quickly if there is no option, there is no reason to pass it quickly if the team mate don't make movement or run, there is no reason to pass it quickly but it's to players that were already being marked on and ready to be intercepted.

The article also makes valid reason on this:

''by attracting pressure, Maguire is able to play through the initial press and find Pogba in space, who in turn uses two quick touches to play Wan-Bissaka free on the right side.''

 

[Dante]

But he cost £80m, so anything less than De Bruyne level of key passes isn't good enough. Or something.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Not sure about his ball playing skills.. But taking 5 seconds to scan the whole pitch ensure everybody gets marked and then make 5 yard pass at the end to lindeloff is a waste of good 5 seconds.

 

[MadDogg]

He's always been a good dribbler, something that he seemed to do at Leicester (and for England but they often use a back three) a fair bit more than he does here. He's also capable of being a good passer but he does have a tendency to slow it down a bit too much at times. Not as badly as some here make out, but he definitely does do it.

 

[meamth]

It's important to pass the ball with purpose. It's not about to do it quickly or slowly. There is no reason to pass it quickly if there is no option, there is no reason to pass it quickly if the team mate don't make movement or run, there is no reason to pass it quickly but it's to players that were already being marked on and ready to be intercepted.

The article also makes valid reason on this:

''by attracting pressure, Maguire is able to play through the initial press and find Pogba in space, who in turn uses two quick touches to play Wan-Bissaka free on the right side.''

This. Yes. I prefer this instead of classic Smalling hoofing the ball.

 

[meamth]

Oh god. Please never play on the same football team as me. The speed of a pass is a measure of a player's combination of mental quickness and technical proficiency. The quicker the pass is made, the more gaps are exploited as you don't give opponents a chance to telegraph and prepare.

Really. Keep on playing your sunday league football.

There is this thing called attracting pressure to open up space. Maybe you should try it.

 

[Haddock]

He can pass well but seldom does it with speed or purpose.

 

[Mcking]

Why is it an issue to take an age to play a pass? Do you watch football or just read stats? There’s a difference between playing it safe and waiting an eternity to play a safe pass that could’ve been played sooner.

Yeah, it's a problem, and a very big one. Most of our players are usually guilty of it, and that is why we struggle so much in the build up.

 

[Sky1981]

Any professional player would have no problem passing if they could take ages to time their pass ane looked around.

 

[Glideman]

I’ve never understood the opinion that Maguire is bad on the ball. Every time I watch him he looks good on the ball. Yes at times he takes a few touches but a lot of players do that when they have no options. I really don’t know which defender in the prem is soo much better on the ball than he is.

 

[Brwned]

what is that fecking definition of dribble style. Moving the ball forward uncontested 10% of the field doesn't mean you're dribbling. It means you have the ball in a safe position and the opposition aren't worried enough about what you'll do with it to commit a man against you. By that definition someone like John O'Shea would also be a near-perfect dribbler because he was consistently given oceans of space to move forward into because ultimately the opposition trusted him to make a bad pass or a safe pass.

 

[Mcking]

It's important to pass the ball with purpose. It's not about to do it quickly or slowly. There is no reason to pass it quickly if there is no option, there is no reason to pass it quickly if the team mate don't make movement or run, there is no reason to pass it quickly but it's to players that were already being marked on and ready to be intercepted.

The article also makes valid reason on this:

''by attracting pressure, Maguire is able to play through the initial press and find Pogba in space, who in turn uses two quick touches to play Wan-Bissaka free on the right side.''

Only if the opponents are actually interested in applying pressure, and it's not an organized press.

If the opponents are not pressing, then you are just wasting valuable time on the ball and allowing them to set up defensively. Good pressing teams are also able to cut off the passing lanes as well as put pressure on the ball carrier.

Waiting for the press is going to work sometimes obviously, but most times you are just doing exactly what the opponents wants you to do. They want you to keep the ball where it would allow them setup their defensive game without any threat of conceding.

You could move the ball with purpose, while moving it quickly. You could also move the ball with purpose just by moving it quickly. A quick pass from Maguire to Lindelof in that image, rather than a delayed one to Pogba could easily achieve the same result.

You could see how quick the likes of City and Liverpool move the ball, then compare it with the way we do. Why take 25 seconds to get the ball in the final third when you could do it in less than 10 seconds?

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Only if the opponents are actually interested in applying pressure, and it's not an organized press.

If the opponents are not pressing, then you are just wasting valuable time on the ball and allowing them to set up defensively. Good pressing teams are also able to cut off the passing lanes as well as put pressure on the ball carrier.

Waiting for the press is going to work sometimes obviously, but most times you are just doing exactly what the opponents wants you to do. They want you to keep the ball where it would allow them setup their defensive game without any threat of conceding.

You could move the ball with purpose, while moving it quickly. You could see how quick the likes of City and Liverpool move the ball, then compare it with the way we do. Why take 25 seconds to get the ball in the final third when you could do it in less than 10 seconds?

I never say the purpose of Maguire holds the ball longer is just for one reason to attract pressure, I'm using it to show one of the benefit.

If players don't move or make themselves available for the pass then the ball cannot be released. I just said it, you need purpose with your passing. You can't just randomly play quick passes without movement and knowing player like Pogba, Scott and etc are not impervious to pressure like Silva, KDB and other City players. People were moaning about the lack of movement in here for a reason.

You mentioned City and yet Pep wanted to sign Maguire in 2019. Surely one of the reason Pep wanted him because his ability on the ball and he thinks the player's suits his style.

 

[kouroux]

Only if the opponents are actually interested in applying pressure, and it's not an organized press.

If the opponents are not pressing, then you are just wasting valuable time on the ball and allowing them to set up defensively. Good pressing teams are also able to cut off the passing lanes as well as put pressure on the ball carrier.

Waiting for the press is going to work sometimes obviously, but most times you are just doing exactly what the opponents wants you to do. They want you to keep the ball where it would allow them setup their defensive game without any threat of conceding.

You could move the ball with purpose, while moving it quickly. You could also move the ball with purpose just by moving it quickly. A quick pass from Maguire to Lindelof in that image, rather than a delayed one to Pogba could easily achieve the same result.

You could see how quick the likes of City and Liverpool move the ball, then compare it with the way we do. Why take 25 seconds to get the ball in the final third when you could do it in less than 10 seconds?

They really really don't anymore.

 

[Red_toad]

Not sure about his ball playing skills.. But taking 5 seconds to scan the whole pitch ensure everybody gets marked and then make 5 yard pass at the end to lindeloff is a waste of good 5 seconds.

If we had a better midfielders who made themselves available to pass to then maybe he'd not have to delay as much. We have players who do not make themselves available and hide behind opposition players. How I wish we had someone as gifted as Scholes currently, everyone around him knew he'd always be available to take the ball, control it and progress the play.
Our midfielders do have a tendency to stand behind opposition players, so passing to them isn't a simple task. Cavani and Bruno are both stand outs in this area, they're both in perpetual motion looking for space, hopefully it becomes infectious.

 

[Longshanks]

Oh god. Please never play on the same football team as me. The speed of a pass is a measure of a player's combination of mental quickness and technical proficiency. The quicker the pass is made, the more gaps are exploited as you don't give opponents a chance to telegraph and prepare.

Yes if the gaps are there in the first place, if the gaps aren't and the players are marked and the passing lines are blocked what are you expecting maguire to do, play potentially suicidal passes through the lines likely giving the ball away a given the opposition a free run at the defence?

Were generally quite good against teams that press and attack us, we are good at playing through the press and counter attacking, maguire is a big part of that.

Where we generally struggle is against teams set back with 10/11 behind the ball all in there own half, in that scenario Maguire takes his time hopeing someone will break ranks and press him to open up passing lanes if it doesn't happen than often he doesn't have much choice but to play a simple one to lindelof.

 

[Mcking]

I never say the purpose of Maguire holds the ball longer is just for one reason to attract pressure, I'm using it to show one of the benefit.

If players don't move or make themselves available for the pass then the ball cannot be released. I just said it, you need purpose with your passing. You can't just randomly play quick passes without movement and knowing player like Pogba, Scott and etc are not impervious to pressure like Silva, KDB and other City players. People were moaning about the lack of movement in here for a reason.

You mentioned City and yet Pep wanted to sign Maguire in 2019. Surely one of the reason Pep wanted him because his ability on the ball and he thinks the player's suits his style.

You can't hold unto it either while waiting for movement. Your opponents are also waiting for that exact movement, ready to deal with it. That's all the point of a defensive structure.

As a CB, if you can't spot a big progressive pass the moment you receive the ball, then you have to move it on immediately. Your CB partner and the full back is always there to give you an easy pass. There's no point standing on the ball when your teammate that doesn't have the ball might have spotted a good pass, or a good way to progress the ball.

Maguire is good, but he is without doubt usually guilty of holding onto the ball for too long as far as I'm concerned. He probably wouldn't be doing it if signed for City, because we aren't City, and Pep wouldn't torelate jogging with the ball.

 

[Mcking]

They really really don't anymore.

They have regressed, and are suffering for it. Still move it far quicker than we do.

 

[Barney Bubbles]

Oh god. Please never play on the same football team as me. The speed of a pass is a measure of a player's combination of mental quickness and technical proficiency. The quicker the pass is made, the more gaps are exploited as you don't give opponents a chance to telegraph and prepare.

it’s not the speed of the pass it’s passing at the right time.

 

[lee82gx]

You can't hold unto it either while waiting for movement. Your opponents are also waiting for that exact movement, ready to deal with it. That's all the point of a defensive structure.

As a CB, if you can't spot a big progressive pass the moment you receive the ball, then you have to move it on immediately. Your CB partner and the full back is always there to give you an easy pass. There's no point standing on the ball when your teammate that doesn't have the ball might have spotted a good pass, or a good way to progress the ball.

Maguire is good, but he is without doubt usually guilty of holding onto the ball for too long as far as I'm concerned. He probably wouldn't be doing it if signed for City, because we aren't City, and Pep wouldn't torelate jogging with the ball.

I doubt we have even 2 players that fit Pep's style / demands / requirements.

But yes back to your points Maguire is slow on the ball and slow off the ball. Once in a while he's decent with it but that is usually in the opposition half, which is very rare.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

If we had a better midfielders who made themselves available to pass to then maybe he'd not have to delay as much. We have players who do not make themselves available and hide behind opposition players. How I wish we had someone as gifted as Scholes currently, everyone around him knew he'd always be available to take the ball, control it and progress the play.
Our midfielders do have a tendency to stand behind opposition players, so passing to them isn't a simple task. Cavani and Bruno are both stand outs in this area, they're both in perpetual motion looking for space, hopefully it becomes infectious.

This. Its also a combination of coaching issue.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You can't hold unto it either while waiting for movement. Your opponents are also waiting for that exact movement, ready to deal with it. That's all the point of a defensive structure.

As a CB, if you can't spot a big progressive pass the moment you receive the ball, then you have to move it on immediately. Your CB partner and the full back is always there to give you an easy pass. There's no point standing on the ball when your teammate that doesn't have the ball might have spotted a good pass, or a good way to progress the ball.

Maguire is good, but he is without doubt usually guilty of holding onto the ball for too long as far as I'm concerned. He probably wouldn't be doing it if signed for City, because we aren't City, and Pep wouldn't torelate jogging with the ball.

You can't release the ball if there is no movement either which is why Maguire was often left with no option but to hold his pass. You see the pattern now?

 

[Raees]

As an England fan for me his ball playing ability stood out from day 1 and I think the criticism of his ability with the ball is harsh.

He hasn’t been at his best in all areas of his game so I think some patience is needed in this regard if he is not at the races passing wise - but personally if is his defending which is more of a concern than passing ability.

Have to disagree with @harms on VVd who has an easy job when it comes to distribution in such a dominant possession side whereas United are so dysfunctional in their build up play from the back (one week decent and another week atrocious or sometimes in the same game).

If United had Fabinho and Thiago in their midfield and were coached by Pep, then I bet you there would be zero criticism of Maguire in a ball playing regard. He has it much harder than other top ball playing centre backs IMO. Also has DDG as a keeper another dodgy colleague in the ball playing stakes so can explain the hesitancy in making passes.

 

[Zen86]

I’m amazed these people have set the bar so high for Maguires passing abilities, having watched Smalling, Jones, Bailly, Lindelöf, Rojo, et al for so many years.

Agenda.

 

[Mcking]

You can't release the ball if there is no movement either which is why Maguire was often left with no option but to hold his pass. You see the pattern now?

You can, unless your legs are tied together. Lindelof literally stands beside Maguire every time, the LB to the left, Fred or Pogba or McTominay in front most times.

Holding the ball should never be an option or a resort. What is he holding the ball and waiting for? If the game is in the balance, nothing is going to happen, the pressure won't come. He'd end up passing to Lindelof when he could have passed five seconds earlier, and that is exactly what happens almost every time.

We don't pass with any rhythm or zip, and Maguire is usually one of the biggest culprits on the pitch. It's not just on him though. The teams structure is a mess.

 

[Brwned]

I’m amazed these people have set the bar so high for Maguires passing abilities, having watched Smalling, Jones, Bailly, Lindelöf, Rojo, et al for so many years.

Agenda.

He was signed as a ball playing defender for 80m. It's not an agenda to judge players by different standards when they were bought to offer a different standard.

 

[Barney Bubbles]

You can, unless your legs are tied together. Lindelof literally stands beside Maguire every time, the LB to the left, Fred or Pogba or McTominay in front most times.

Holding the ball should never be an option or a resort. What is he holding the ball and waiting for? If the game is in the balance, nothing is going to happen, the pressure won't come. He'd end up passing to Lindelof when he could have passed five seconds earlier, and that is exactly what happens almost every time.

We don't pass with any rhythm or zip, and Maguire is usually one of the biggest culprits on the pitch. It's not just on him though. The teams structure is a mess.

To who? If no one is moving then they’re usually covered so isn’t it better to retain possession?

 

[Gazza]

Agenda

 

[ROFLUTION]

The article also makes valid reason on this:

''by attracting pressure, Maguire is able to play through the initial press and find Pogba in space, who in turn uses two quick touches to play Wan-Bissaka free on the right side.''

That's a funny image/situation to use considering we've lost valuable points this season and many times the previous seasons due to high pressing and Pogba losing the ball in stupid areas by not being as efficient to move it on/out of pressure as say Fred. Not pr. se Maguire's fault though. But considering playing out under the pressure has gone wrong so many times this season, he should probably be in the equation.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Smalling (who is a very good defender) cost Jose his job because he couldn’t pass.

Solskjaer team struggles to create/convert chances but gets a good amount of shots (attempts + shot in target).

Mourinho’s United couldn’t get even those shots on target. We used to crumble under the slightest pressing. That’s why Jose was mad when we failed to get Maguire. I remember a moment when Jose was commenting a United game. He called Maguire “a monster”, he apparently was pissed off with Woody.

Maguire is the biggest reason we improved our defensive stats and advancing the ball from the deep. He is a brilliant defender who was unfortunate to be bought for a big sum.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

You can, unless your legs are tied together. Lindelof literally stands beside Maguire every time, the LB to the left, Fred or Pogba or McTominay in front most times.

Holding the ball should never be an option or a resort. What is he holding the ball and waiting for? If the game is in the balance, nothing is going to happen, the pressure won't come. He'd end up passing to Lindelof when he could have passed five seconds earlier, and that is exactly what happens almost every time.

We don't pass with any rhythm or zip, and Maguire is usually one of the biggest culprits on the pitch. It's not just on him though. The teams structure is a mess.

Well you are totally ignoring what I just told you.

I said when passing the ball you need purpose. How is passing the ball to Lindelof or across the back four has any purpose? It’s pointless, pass with no progressive ball.

You can't release the ball if there is no movement simple mate. Why?

Because Midfielder who don’t move means they are easily marked and the pass can easily be intercepted. Passing the ball to player who don’t move and marked is asking for trouble especially if they are not impervious to pressure like those midfielders you named Pogba, Fred & Scott.

You probably don’t know what ’’not impervious’’ means, it means affected aka losing the ball easily when under pressure.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

That's a funny image/situation to use considering we've lost valuable points this season and many times the previous seasons due to high pressing and Pogba losing the ball in stupid areas by not being as efficient to move it on/out of pressure as say Fred. Not pr. se Maguire's fault though. But considering playing out under the pressure has gone wrong so many times this season, he should probably be in the equation.

That‘s the purpose of Maguire attracting pressure which made Pogba to be in free spot where no player will press him.

If people want quicker passing build up from centre back, players in front especially midfielders should made themselves available to pass.

 

[A-man]

You can't hold unto it either while waiting for movement. Your opponents are also waiting for that exact movement, ready to deal with it. That's all the point of a defensive structure.

As a CB, if you can't spot a big progressive pass the moment you receive the ball, then you have to move it on immediately. Your CB partner and the full back is always there to give you an easy pass. There's no point standing on the ball when your teammate that doesn't have the ball might have spotted a good pass, or a good way to progress the ball.

Maguire is good, but he is without doubt usually guilty of holding onto the ball for too long as far as I'm concerned. He probably wouldn't be doing it if signed for City, because we aren't City, and Pep wouldn't torelate jogging with the ball.

Agree with you. I think he’s good at general handling if the ball, attracting pressure without getting dispossessed, and he has good long balls to the left flank. But he takes way too long time on the ball when it is not necessary. Also his passes are often weak and Lindelof has to wait for it, which slows down even further. However I think someone has talked to him about this and he has improved lately and is now a bit faster in his distribution.
I don’t know if anyone watched Inter - Real Madrid yesterday? The way Real played around the ball, just before the penalty, was amazing. Untouchable of any pressure. The movement, the concentration, the accuracy, the patience. World class. I think our CBs would be good enough to do something similar to that (not AWB though), but then we also need the movement in the midfield.

That's a funny image/situation to use considering we've lost valuable points this season and many times the previous seasons due to high pressing and Pogba losing the ball in stupid areas by not being as efficient to move it on/out of pressure as say Fred. Not pr. se Maguire's fault though. But considering playing out under the pressure has gone wrong so many times this season, he should probably be in the equation.

Exactly what I was thinking as well. The pass through the press to Pogba has failed miserably 2-3 times this season and is dangerous. The CB need to play through the press some times but doing that in the centre is a high risk pass that has cost us.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Maguire’s ball playing ability is massively underrated on this board. He’s brilliant under pressure in a way that we haven’t had since Rio. He will very rarely give the ball away when under press which I’d argue us the single biggest threat to a ball playing centre back (cough John Stones). This is where the argument that he’s like Smalling falls away as he was always a split second away from giving the ball away.

I agree with others that he can sometimes take too many touches on the ball but it works both ways and there’s often very little movement in front of him and our midfielders are not of the class where you can give them any ball under pressure and they can get out (expect maybe VDB). His long passing is also good but not great and I think Lindelof beats him here, but he is good at playing the long reverse ball up the pitch to the left back which with Telles in the team will open up more early crossing avenues.

Overall, it’s clear on this board that people have made their minds up on Harry. His nickname, look and nationality all feed into the perceived bias he receives as some old fashioned donkey but the reality is he’s a very good modern CB who combines good defending with good ball playing more often than not which is why he’s been easily our best CB since Rio/Vidic.