Man Utd set to appoint Director of Football (when hell freezes over)

El Zoido

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That's a very kind view. On a football team there isn't a lot of positions to fill, so pretty much every club purchase players in areas of need it's not a special talent and it's not something that we didn't do before Solskjaer. Then you have to consider that we brought an attacking player that predominantly played of the left, an 80m CB when we already had 7 at the club and a 50m RB that isn't particularly good going forward while basically ignoring the fact that we still don't have an actual right winger, we don't have a proper #10 even though the manager use a tactic that require one and our CMs don't fit together.

We are basically praising Ole, for signing expensive and known players with only one of them actually fitting an immediate need when you consider squad depth and quality because anything we currently have on the right wing or as #10 is worse than Smalling instead of Maguire and that's barely debatable.
I see what you’re saying, and it may be easy to identify obvious (expensive) targets, but we’ve utterly failed at that over the last six years and three managers. We had 7 mediocre CB’s at the club, yes we needed to solidify that position. RB was an absolute necessity as well, and James is looking to be a good bit of business. People can try and deny Ole credit for signing “obvious” good players for a lot of money, but it sure as hell beats Di Maria and Sanchez.
 

JPRouve

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I see what you’re saying, and it may be easy to identify obvious (expensive) targets, but we’ve utterly failed at that over the last six years and three managers. We had 7 mediocre CB’s at the club, yes we needed to solidify that position. RB was an absolute necessity as well, and James is looking to be a good bit of business. People can try and deny Ole credit for signing “obvious” good players for a lot of money, but it sure as hell beats Di Maria and Sanchez.
But these players have done nothing they aren't successful signings, they may be in 2 or 3 years but today they are obvious and expensive signings playing for a team that is below average. Di Maria in November 2014 was a far better signing than all of these players put together though. Matic, Bailly, Lukaku, Pogba or Ibrahimovic were all seen considered the way you are considering Ole's signings. None of them have been particularly good, none of them have made our team better, at least not a degree where we would praise Ole and if they did two of them are close among the most expensive players in their positions, that's not how you build a team, it's a terrible model to follow.
 

mav_9me

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I dont see Woodward ever appointing a DOF, unless the Glazers tell him to.

I follow NY sports here in USA, baseball/NFL stuff. A lot of them are a disaster and a common thread for the disaster teams is ownership wishing to be involved in decision making. Consequently they hire GMs and even coaches who say what the owners want to hear and who are willing to give owners a say in running things which is of course a disaster obviously. And a lot of these owners/GMs want to be people who are credited with the winning and so are reluctant to hire the obvious exceptional brilliant coach who knows more than them cuz then a) they are sidelined rightly so b) the coach gets more credit. So they make mistake after mistake hiring the wrong GMs and coaches and keep going on never ending rebulids. Which are harder in a salary cap sport.

Now our situation is not the exact same but similar. Woodward wants to be the guy who gets us to glory, so hiring someone like Rangnick would mean ceding control and who will then get the credit for our success. At least in our case it does not appear that owners get involved so badly. But fundamentally the football side of things are under the control of a guy who is not a football guy to begin with. And I don't see that changing on his own volition.
 

Bastian

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Yeah, the longer they leave hiring competent people the worse it will reflect on them once they finally do. Had they done so after sacking Moyes they would be credited with foresight and modern thinking. Having stalled and stalled - then invited Rio and Fletcher to have vague talks about joining a transfer committee - if they were to now actually do this and it would yield results the last 6-7 years would underline how incredibly poor they've been in running the club.

That being said, I do think enough pressure and all-around ridicule, alongside terrible football, may actually force their hand.
 

JPRouve

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I dont see Woodward ever appointing a DOF, unless the Glazers tell him to.

I follow NY sports here in USA, baseball/NFL stuff. A lot of them are a disaster and a common thread for the disaster teams is ownership wishing to be involved in decision making. Consequently they hire GMs and even coaches who say what the owners want to hear and who are willing to give owners a say in running things which is of course a disaster obviously. And a lot of these owners/GMs want to be people who are credited with the winning and so are reluctant to hire the obvious exceptional brilliant coach who knows more than them cuz then a) they are sidelined rightly so b) the coach gets more credit. So they make mistake after mistake hiring the wrong GMs and coaches and keep going on never ending rebulids. Which are harder in a salary cap sport.

Now our situation is not the exact same but similar. Woodward wants to be the guy who gets us to glory, so hiring someone like Rangnick would mean ceding control and who will then get the credit for our success. At least in our case it does not appear that owners get involved so badly. But fundamentally the football side of things are under the control of a guy who is not a football guy to begin with. And I don't see that changing on his own volition.
I don't think that what you say is the case because our managers have all been given what they wanted initially, it's only bad results that saw them lose the trust and support of the board and Woodward. I also disagree with the glory part because it's fundamentally wrong, in football club presidents are as praised as managers when there is a positive era their is the mentioned as much as any other name in football but it's only one side of the proverbial coin when things don't go well club presidents are also mentioned and criticized, their name is easily tarnished and I'm pretty sure that Woodward is aware of that. I think that he is just bad at his job and afraid to make big changes because he won't be able to hide behind The United way. And you can see that in the managers that we hired, he basically picked the perceived safest option, he picked two extremely experienced managers even though they were declining and he picked a fan favorite after a good streak of games.

I don't think that interference is an issue because all our managers did their own thing in their own way when with an interfering owner/CEO we would have seen all of them do the similar things or do things completely out of character. If there is a pattern in what we do badly is that the board picks the wrong managers because he picks them with the wrong criterias. Succesful clubs rarely pick managers that are at the end of their careers, at least not when a team need to be built and they don't pick managers based on 10-15 years old reputations in the hope that they could replicate their old glories.
 

croadyman

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There has been stories about Woody meeting with Rangnick but he is also supposed to have said he has no interest in being part of the Utd project and is happy where he is, personally I think the truth of the situation is probably somewhere in the middle.
 

Abizzz

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I don't think appointing Rangnick is such a no-brainer even if he'd like to come. He is very single minded and expects everyone to follow his lead, which might lead to problems with any pl manager worth their salt. Also RB Salzburg was his only club outside of Germany and all his success stories were sugar daddy clubs where he vastly outspent their competition. United can outspend almost anyone in the PL, but not by several magnitudes.

Not saying it couldn't be a success but I don't think he's all that (still massive upgrade on woody/no one)
 
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Bastian

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I don't know if I'm just super optimistic, but I think once Ole is sacked the club will be forced to make structural changes. The ridicule of Woodward and the board is now commonplace, literally everyone knows we are run by idiots. If they need to sack yet another manager - one who defended them tooth and nail ("We are a fantastically run club" -Ole) - something surely has got to give.

And just like with a manager, we need someone who is relentlessly ambitious - more so than just wanting a top job.
 

Adnan

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I don't know if I'm just super optimistic, but I think once Ole is sacked the club will be forced to make structural changes. The ridicule of Woodward and the board is now commonplace, literally everyone knows we are run by idiots. If they need to sack yet another manager - one who defended them tooth and nail ("We are a fantastically run club" -Ole) - something surely has got to give.

And just like with a manager, we need someone who is relentlessly ambitious - more so than just wanting a top job.
That's how I feel, but someone like Poch wouldn't want to work with a DoF type figure and I do hope we look elsewhere if that is the case. The Times also reported yesterday that Poch wants a bigger say in recruitment at his next job. He's not gonna get that at Madrid or Bayern so I hope we don't bow down to his demands.

Nagelsmann, Rose, Ten Hag would be the ones I'd target ahead of Poch. And I'd also keep an eye out for Tuchel who might be available at the end of the season.
 

Bastian

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That's how I feel, but someone like Poch wouldn't want to work with a DoF type figure and I do hope we look elsewhere if that is the case. The Times also reported yesterday that Poch wants a bigger say in recruitment at his next job. He's not gonna get that at Madrid or Bayern so I hope we don't bow down to his demands.

Nagelsmann, Rose, Ten Hag would be the ones I'd target ahead of Poch. And I'd also keep an eye out for Tuchel who might be available at the end of the season.
I'm with you on Nagelsmann, as you know, but if he's already invested in the Leipzig project and just waiting for Bayern, it's unlikely.

Has Poch been at a club where he had a big say in transfers? What is his record like? Any comments he's made about not wanting to work with a DoF?
 

Adnan

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I'm with you on Nagelsmann, as you know, but if he's already invested in the Leipzig project and just waiting for Bayern, it's unlikely.

Has Poch been at a club where he had a big say in transfers? What is his record like? Any comments he's made about not wanting to work with a DoF?
It's been reported in various newspapers that he doesn't like working with a DoF type figure. Even the Spurs fans on here @InLevyITrust @GlastonSpur have said the same.

This snippet from the Times is alarming to anyone who wishes to see a DoF type structure in place.

"Pochettino has privately said that he wants to work with the right owner in future. It is understood that he would want a bigger budget to work with and more control of transfers than he was afforded by Daniel Levy, the Tottenham chairman, with whom he clashed".

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mauricio-pochettino-im-open-to-offers-now-8tbx3jncx
 

Bastian

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It's been reported in various newspapers that he doesn't like working with a DoF type figure. Even the Spurs fans on here @InLevyITrust @GlastonSpur have said the same.

This snippet from the Times is alarming to anyone who wishes to see a DoF type structure in place.

"Pochettino has privately said that he wants to work with the right owner in future. It is understood that he would want a bigger budget to work with and more control of transfers than he was afforded by Daniel Levy, the Tottenham chairman, with whom he clashed".

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mauricio-pochettino-im-open-to-offers-now-8tbx3jncx
Yeah, that's not great. He's not shown himself to be a Guardiola type genius (who incidentally, works with DoF) so it would be pretty mad to put the long-term health of the club at risk yet again. The worry would be that he'd be happy with the current structure and we'd continue this madness.
 

Beans

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It's very strange, are we to believe there is no one in the world who could do this job that will come here? I can't help but wonder if we're seeing "bureaucratic residence" to the idea of reforming the power structure, no one announces a new position then doesn't fill it for *years*!
 

Adnan

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Yeah, that's not great. He's not shown himself to be a Guardiola type genius (who incidentally, works with DoF) so it would be pretty mad to put the long-term health of the club at risk yet again. The worry would be that he'd be happy with the current structure and we'd continue this madness.
The best thing that could happen for us, is if Poch decides to go elsewhere IMO. I'm extremely fearful of things going pear-shaped under him due to his stubbornness regarding a DoF.

The best signing we could possibly make is getting Ralf Rangnick on board and give him the responsibility of appointing the next manager and running the football side.
 

Bastian

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The best thing that could happen for us, is if Poch decides to go elsewhere IMO. I'm extremely fearful of things going pear-shaped under him due to his stubbornness regarding a DoF.

The best signing we could possibly make is getting Ralf Rangnick on board and give him the responsibility of appointing the next manager and running the football side.
The Rangnick quotes made me think he's more desirable to Campos, as he wasn't bending over backwards being submissive and all polite, but pretty hard hitting and to the point. I can't see a person like Rangnick suffering fools. I agree.
 

Adnan

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The Rangnick quotes made me think he's more desirable to Campos, as he wasn't bending over backwards being submissive and all polite, but pretty hard hitting and to the point. I can't see a person like Rangnick suffering fools. I agree.
Rangnick would be a better signing than Sancho, Chiesa, Haaland, Poch etc put together IMO. We need a mastermind in charge of the football department and Rangnick is that man.
 

red thru&thru

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Rangnick would be a better signing than Sancho, Chiesa, Haaland, Poch etc put together IMO. We need a mastermind in charge of the football department and Rangnick is that man.
Long term yes I agree with this. Pochettino is desirable but I just don't believe in Ed. Whilst Ed is calling the shots, it will be hard to work with Ed. A buffer would be needed. Worst case scenario, we should get Paul Mitchell in.
 

AneRu

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Yeah, that's not great. He's not shown himself to be a Guardiola type genius (who incidentally, works with DoF) so it would be pretty mad to put the long-term health of the club at risk yet again. The worry would be that he'd be happy with the current structure and we'd continue this madness.
Agreed, if Poch comes in chances are high that a couple of years and hundreds of millions of pounds down the line we would be having this discussion all over again after performances and results drop due to failures in recruitment. Woodward would also like to work with him as he would be willing to work under the current structure.
 

Roboc7

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I don't know if I'm just super optimistic, but I think once Ole is sacked the club will be forced to make structural changes. The ridicule of Woodward and the board is now commonplace, literally everyone knows we are run by idiots. If they need to sack yet another manager - one who defended them tooth and nail ("We are a fantastically run club" -Ole) - something surely has got to give.

And just like with a manager, we need someone who is relentlessly ambitious - more so than just wanting a top job.
Won’t happen, if they sack Ole they’ll just appoint someone else and move on. The fans at Old Trafford aren’t giving Ed a tough time, he’s not under pressure from owners so it will just be business as usual. There is clearly no desire to appoint a DOF or change the structure at the club.

They’ve been running the club like idiots for nearly 7 years now and from what Woodward was saying are happier with themselves than ever before.
 

InLevyITrust

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It's been reported in various newspapers that he doesn't like working with a DoF type figure. Even the Spurs fans on here @InLevyITrust @GlastonSpur have said the same.

This snippet from the Times is alarming to anyone who wishes to see a DoF type structure in place.

"Pochettino has privately said that he wants to work with the right owner in future. It is understood that he would want a bigger budget to work with and more control of transfers than he was afforded by Daniel Levy, the Tottenham chairman, with whom he clashed".

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mauricio-pochettino-im-open-to-offers-now-8tbx3jncx
When we first got Poch he was the "head coach", that changed with his next contract as "manager". He wants the run of the club and for a time (barring massive signings) he did, influential from youth to first team and massive input on all the new infrastructure.

He never really had a "DOF" with us, Mitchell title was "Head of Recruitment". Poch and Levy did apparently get on very well in general and the sacking only came round, IMO with imput from the players and the run of bad results.
 

Canuckred64

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ESPN saying Woodward has changed his mind about hiring a Director of Football. Not really surprising, it never really looked like they were all that serious.
 

Bobcat

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ESPN saying Woodward has changed his mind about hiring a Director of Football. Not really surprising, it never really looked like they were all that serious.
Of course he did :rolleyes:

FFS, why cant he just stick to he finances? Why is he and the board insisting on letting him do a job well outside of his comfort zone? In a large organization like ours i bet there is plenty to do, so its not like he would be out of a job if he shared some of the responsibility
 

croadyman

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The only way it will happen is if a manager asks for one.
Yeah and you certainly won't get that kind of demand from Ole or Pochettino which will absolutely delight Woody.

Would expect it from the likes of Nagelsmann, Tuchel and Rose though.