Manager draft - Balu/Pedro VS Paolo DC

Who would win based on peak under manager?


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Annahnomoss

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Balu & Pedro's homage to Béla Guttmann


In 1959 the great Béla Guttmann created one of the greatest European club sides of all time, sacking 20 players on his arrival but promoting a core of brilliant youth players, who would dominate Europe for two years and Portugal for the rest of the decade. All of Guttmann's sides were free flowing attacking teams, often top heavy, but with incredible workrate from all players. His Benfica side built around the great Mário Coluna was the peak of his career and of the tactical development of the game in his era. He used Coluna as a withdrawn attacker in a role that's probably best described as an attacking box to box midfield role. Coluna's role stands for the bridge between the old WM system and the new 4-2-4 and not too different to later versions of the 3-4-3 and 3-3-4 (like Michels' Ajax, Cruyff's Barca or van Gaal's Ajax) versatile players moving between defense and midfield and between midfield and attack gave the team an advantage in the different phases of the game.

During the draft we created a short journey along Guttmann's career with a few great stories and a bit of background information on our players. You can find them 'here'. It's well worth the read.


Our tactics in this game:

We used Guttmann's Benfica side as the blueprint for our team. It's a fantasy draft about the managers, so his best team is the perfect starting point. We take the three best player from that side and fill the team with all the other greats, lucky enough to play under this iconic manager during their career.


In possession:

Guttmann's teams were always attacking sides based on the Hungarian philosophy of the 40's and 50's. Brilliant technical sides, usually top heavy with 5 attackers but great workrate throughout the team. We expect to face a 3 man defense with Rijkaard as the central defender and a 3 man midfield of Schweinsteiger, Guardiola and van Bommel in front of them as protection. A few points:

1. The heart of our team is the midfield. Bozsik, one of the alltime great deep lying playmakers, will keep the game ticking and spread the ball. Coluna's driving runs through midfield offer another dimension to get the ball to our devastating attack like the following quote explains "In a truly dynamic team, it was Coluna that directed the play, Coluna that drove in so many crucial long-range shots and Coluna that set up the strikers so frequently." The final piece to give that midfield a wonderful balance is a tough defensive midfielder, capable of playing the easy pass to his teammates and a central defender with great distribution to play the ball out of defense. You don't get control of the game against these players, it's that simple.

2. In attack, one of the greatest goalscorers of all time in Puskás, who will drift in and around the box. Two outstanding wingers, both key attackers in their club sides, will provide width and drag the opposing wide centerbacks out wide, but also offer a huge goalthreat through runs into the box.

3. Our biggest threat here is the amazing Eusébio. A physical beast and basically unstoppable, when running at a defense, equally threatening in the box and with an outstanding shot from outside. With Rijkaard probably trying to keep Puskás in check and Coluna causing havoc in midfield, there's simply no player in the opposing team, who can defend him.

When defending:

One point should be clear, we'll see goals on either side here, but we'll score more. We expect to face a 3-4-3/3-3-4 with Rivaldo being the key player in a second striker role, both teams aren't too different in terms of playing style and formations. There's no way the defenses can keep all that attacking brilliance on the pitch quiet and who wants that to happen anyway. Still, a few points how we try to minimize the influence of our opponent's player and why our players are well suited to the roles given to them in this game.

1. Defending against Rivaldo. The obvious decision. We have a great, tough defensive midfielder who fought battles in the roughest games in Southamerica against brilliant playmakers, so we unleash 'Tito' Gonçalves on Rivaldo to limit his influence.

2. Both our wide centerbacks have experience as fullbacks. Cesare Maldini started similar to his son as a rightback, was used as a right footed left back a few times for the nationalteam and became a centerback and sweeper later in his career. It's a bit similar with Matosas on the left, who played leftback for the nationalteam a few times. Both have exactly the attributes you want from wide centerbacks in a back three.

3. We expect one of Schweinsteiger or van Bommel to stay deep and help against Eusébio, because Guardiola is certainly the wrong player to do that job, which leaves a wonderful midfield battle. Coluna and Bozsik against Guardiola and one of Schweinsteiger or van Bommel. Don't make the mistake and underrate Bozsik's contribution in defense. He wasn't the quickest and would struggle against pace, but he had excellent positioning and didn't shy away from physical defending.

4. Defending against counterattacks. First of all, this isn't a gung-ho team, the back three will keep their shape when the team moves forward as a unit. We have great anticipation in the center through Bozsik and Ramos, physical defending through Tito, Cesare Maldini and Matosas and in Grosics a sweeper keeper minimizing the threat of through balls in behind the defense.

5. Everyone will contribute in defense. There are no passengers here. If de Boer moves forward, one of our forwards will track him, same goes for Rijkaard.

6. We have a leftback on the bench and have the option to change to a 4-2-4 or 4-3-3 later during the game.

Final words:

Good luck and have fun ;).-----------Team Balu---------------------------------------------------------------------Team PDC


VS
 

Annahnomoss

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TEAM PAOLO


Edwin van der Sar
- Probably the the best young keeper in the world under LVG, picking up the best European goalkeeper award in 1995 aswell as being picked for the ESM team of the year, his chemistry with my back 3 should prove vital in my system

Frank de Boer - Perfect player for a 3 man defence as he started as a left back but moved to a centre back under LVG at Ajax and Barcelona, a double league winner in Holland and Spain and of course a European cup winner with Ajax, will prove a vital clog of my system with his defensive and positional abilities

Danny Blind - Winner of 2 dutch footballer of the year awards in 1995 and 1996 probably when dutch football was at its peak of producing players, Blind will provide me with alot of experiance and strength at the back and goals from range if he gets the chance

Frank Rijkaard - Blinds defensive partner at Ajax, bit of a nobody, joke, its only Frankie feckin Rijkaard!, Rikkaards role will be different then for the one he is more well known for, he will primarily act as a centre back but will come out to join the midfield when needed, he was a tremendous reader of the game and will know when he is required to stay back

Bastian Schweinsteiger - Lynch-pin in LVG's Bayern side that made it to the 2010 Champions League final, probably one of the most underrated players on the ball out there today, is more known for his defensive qualities but his skill and vision is sometimes overlooked,his job will be to provide balance and start off attacks, he has played winger, fullback and attacking midfield in his time, so if probably the biggest all rounder in my team

Mark van Bommel - The "hardman" in the middle, but also the leader of my team, Van Bommels job will be one of man marking, harrasing, and getting me the ball back, he also will provide cover for danny blind when its needed, also will be a later arriver in the box.

Josep Guardiola - Had one notable season under LVG whereby he won a league and cup double along side Rivaldo and Figo, Guardiolas job will be to pick up the ball and pick out a positive pass for Ribery, kluivert, Rivaldo or Overmars, bringing the ball forward will be his main job and using his intellegence to know when the slow down the game or quicken the pace

Thomas Muller - Argueably the best young player in the world in 2010 under LVG, his main job will be to create via a link up with Guardiola, spot intellegent runs from Ribery and Kluivert and cause Problems for defenses and midfields, he also will have a special relationship in my team with Rivaldo whereby if Rivaldo feels he wants to drift wide Muller will pop up in the middle, His main job will be
to run at Fullbacks and provide low fast crosses for Kluivert et al and also to get into the box when ribery has the ball.


Frank Ribery - Another very important part of my attack if not the most important, we all know what kind of plater Ribery is, lightning fast, positive goalscorer and provider of goals, will give any fullback in the world a nightmare on his day, he is not your standard wide man, he runs at defenses at angles and trickery whereby you dont know if hes going to shoot or pass, his job will be to provide width and start most attacks, cut balls across the box or shoot with his right foot.


Rivaldo- Most people will point to the break down of LVG and Rivaldos relationship as a weakness of mine, but not to be forgotten is 1999 was Rivaldos peak he win the Balon D'or that year and everything else one can think of in 1998/1999, he was a monster of a player under LVG at his peak, his job for
me is one of a free role/second striker, his presence will cause any team problems, aswell as his shots from distance, he will need a player on him at all times, he is my most dangerous player, if i decide to play Overmars Rivaldo will stay centrally.

Paddy Kluivert - Probably LVGs most prolific striker in his management tenure, his Relationship with Rivaldo will prove vital in most of these matches, and will thrive off the supply from Ribery, Muller, Rivaldo and Guardiola, and score me goals for fun, if not he can just look cool up top, damn he was cool

Substitute - Marc Overmars


My plan of attack/defence

My team is all about positivity and movement, and I feel I have that in abudance with Ribery, Rivaldo, Kluivert and Muller in attack, Overmars will be put towards the end of matches for possibley a midfielder or muller if I feel defences are getting tired to run at them, I have a team full of winners and players who know how to grind out a result, every one of my players is a European Cup winner, aswell as my backline who all won it together, My midfield of Bastian, Van Bommel, Guardiola on Rijkaard
is good enough to come up against any midfield defensively and offensively, theres alot of energy there, Riberys runs at defenses is a vital part of my team, the left winger with the right foot is a fairly modern idea and at the pace it is being done today could cause alot of older fullbacks problems, the person who will have the ball the most in my team will be Schweinsteiger, so himself and Guardiola will be the brains of the team, and will look to link up with some of the more adavnced
midfielders when needed

My defence will be called into question in this draft I feel, the "philosophy" as LVG would put it is more of a zonal one then a man to man one, keeping a shape will be vital and moving together with the midfield when under attack, for this to work the defensive mids and defence will work in close harmony, Muller will have to drop deepish to hold that shape at times, but the speed on the break cannot be denied, one of Bastien or Van Bommel will be assisting my Centre backs in taking out runners
from width, Ribery also will track any fullbacks coming forward like Muller and try and catch them out on the break

If it all goes wrong my plan against Balu/Pedro will be to water the pitch alot, so these old timers slip up alot, also to shoot alot from distance, these modern footballs will move everywhere and there Keeper wont know whats hit them, aswell all my players will be asked to wear pink boots, to confuse the old foggies


My plan to beat Balu/Pedro

Im going to be honest i know little to nothing about Balu/Pedros team bar Eusebio, Puskas and Maldini, and im really finding it hard to find video footage of any ofthem, especially his defenders, so I have no idea how quick or intellegent any of them were, and zero idea of there weaknesses or form under Guttmann, so it would be silly of me to tell you how im going to stop them, all I can say is I have faith in my teams ability and going to play to my strengths and look for a narrow victory through hard work and quick play
 

Stobzilla

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Personally in @Paolo Di Canio 's team I would have Guardiola move to where Van Bommel is, Van Bommel to where Schweinsteiger is and Schweinsteiger where Guardiola is. Everyone plays on their correct foot then and Schweini plays in a more advanced role where imo he would be more useful than Guardiola.

Will give this one some thought though before committing my vote.

EDIT: Paolo's team, not Annah's
 
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Balu

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More arrows :lol:
I kept the number of arrows to a minimum. But it seems like if you pick a Dutch manager, you have to add 2 arrows to each player. It's a rule, no exceptions.
 

antohan

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Personally in @Annahnomoss 's team I would have Guardiola move to where Van Bommel is, Van Bommel to where Schweinsteiger is and Schweinsteiger where Guardiola is. Everyone plays on their correct foot then and Schweini plays in a more advanced role where imo he would be more useful than Guardiola.

Will give this one some thought though before committing my vote.
I've been playing around with that trio for about ten minutes now and still don't have a clue how to best play it. All I've concluded so far is neither van Bommel nor Guardiola quite work in any of the three and Schweinsteiger works in the other two but is indeed worst placed where he is.

Have a feeling Cocu would have worked better than van Bommel. Also, that the entire formation and arrows have been designed to try deal with the opposition rather than get the best out of the team.
 

Stobzilla

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I've been playing around with that trio for about ten minutes now and still don't have a clue how to best play it. All I've concluded so far is neither van Bommel nor Guardiola quite work in any of the three and Schweinsteiger works in the other two but is indeed worst placed where he is.

Have a feeling Cocu would have worked better than van Bommel. Also, that the entire formation and arrows have been designed to try deal with the opposition rather than get the best out of the team.
Agree RE: Cocu,

Schweini
Cocu - Guardiola
Would have been a lot better with the set up he has gone for. Even possibly swapping Pep for Schweini. Not finding a way for Overmars to play is a minor mistake for me as well, I'd take Van Gaal's Overmars over his Muller.
 

Balu

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I don't want to criticise too much about Paolo's team. There's a lot to like about it and you won't hear a bad word from me about Schweinsteiger, Müller or Ribery. fecking love those guys, brilliant attack.

The one obvious mistake Paolo made in my opinion was using Rijkaard as the central centerback. It hurts his midfield and forces him to play those guys out of position so that they can help against my physical attack. I've often talked about van Gaal's Ajax side and the beauty of Rijkaard's role in it. Rijkaard was the 4th defender when the team defended, the 4th midfielder in the build-up and an additional goalscorer in the final third. He used his intelligence to move wherever the team needed him to be. It was wonderful and a huge part of what made that team great. Add a 3rd defender on the right here, move Blind into his sweeper position and replace van Bommel with Rijkaard in midfield and I would be in awe about Paolo's team.

Again this wonderful picture about that team back then:

In Paolo's team, the second best player is limited to defend against Puskás. Even without asking the question if he's a great fit to do that job, it feels a bit of a waste of that wonderful player.
 

Balu

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A few additional quotes about some of my defenders to back up why they fit their roles:

Gyula Grosics
Powerfully built, but lithe and flexible, Grosics was a key figure in Hungary's "Mighty Magyars" squad from 1947 to 1962. He won 89 caps for his country and played in three World Cups. As a goalkeeper, he was ahead of his time, operating not only with athleticism and anticipation in the goal itself, but always ready to act as a kind of sweeper if his defence were breached, dashing well beyond his penalty area to kick the ball clear.
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/17/gyula-grosics

Cesare Maldini
First he was a right back but soon he made the move into the heart fo the defence and eventually played as a sweeper for the club where he won his first UEFA Champions League as a captain in the 1963. He had great technique and stood out from many of his team mates for his class on the ball and ability to read the game.
http://www.acmilan.com/en/archive/show_player/Cesare-Maldini

Roberto Matosas
Still, they've definitely got the talent: National's Luis Cubilla, an ageless winger, once of Barcelona and their main source of goals, captain Pedro Virgillo Rocha, Peñarol's elegant link man, clubmate Roberto Matosas, their solid leftback in a ruthless defence. And their goalie, of Polish extraction, Ladislao Mazurkiewicz of Peñarol, is, some critics argue, equal to Banks as world number one. Like Italy, Uruguay are famous for their defence - dull, stifling, dense, but even more brutal.
Quote from a description of Uruguay's nationalteam in the book 'Back Home: England and the 1970 World Cup' by Jeff Dawson

Maybe @antohan can tell us a bit more about those 3 Penarol players. I don't want you to big them up, just give us a bit more insight about their roles and their playing style and feel free to point it out, if we use them totally wrong :lol:.
 

sun_tzu

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I don't want to criticise too much about Paolo's team. There's a lot to like about it and you won't hear a bad word from me about Schweinsteiger, Müller or Ribery. fecking love those guys, brilliant attack.

The one obvious mistake Paolo made in my opinion was using Rijkaard as the central centerback. It hurts his midfield and forces him to play those guys out of position so that they can help against my physical attack. I've often talked about van Gaal's Ajax side and the beauty of Rijkaard's role in it. Rijkaard was the 4th defender when the team defended, the 4th midfielder in the build-up and an additional goalscorer in the final third. He used his intelligence to move wherever the team needed him to be. It was wonderful and a huge part of what made that team great. Add a 3rd defender on the right here, move Blind into his sweeper position and replace van Bommel with Rijkaard in midfield and I would be in awe about Paolo's team.

Again this wonderful picture about that team back then:

In Paolo's team, the second best player is limited to defend against Puskás. Even without asking the question if he's a great fit to do that job, it feels a bit of a waste of that wonderful player.
when you look at rijkaard in that role what is key is that there is a defender behind him so when he goes into midfield they are not exposed.
PDC's team with another centreback (or even a right sided defender and blind in the middle) and then getting rid of van bommel would have looked a much more balanced team imo - with a more balanced team id probably have picked it to win but as it is it just looks like there will be big holes at the back and puskus and eusabio with nobody behind rijkaard is trouble
 
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antohan

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The one obvious mistake Paolo made in my opinion was using Rijkaard as the central centerback. It hurts his midfield and forces him to play those guys out of position so that they can help against my physical attack. I've often talked about van Gaal's Ajax side and the beauty of Rijkaard's role in it. Rijkaard was the 4th defender when the team defended, the 4th midfielder in the build-up and an additional goalscorer in the final third. He used his intelligence to move wherever the team needed him to be. It was wonderful and a huge part of what made that team great. Add a 3rd defender on the right here, move Blind into his sweeper position and replace van Bommel with Rijkaard in midfield and I would be in awe about Paolo's team.
Agreed, Rijkaard is wasted, the shape of the midfield is a function of Rijkaard being there, and Danny Blind should be central and not an outside defender. Problem for Paolo, I suppose, was there aren't any half decent RBs under LVG bar Lahm, who got snatched away.
 

sun_tzu

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Agreed, Rijkaard is wasted, the shape of the midfield is a function of Rijkaard being there, and Danny Blind should be central and not an outside defender. Problem for Paolo, I suppose, was there aren't any half decent RBs under LVG bar Lahm, who got snatched away.
reizigger - won the champions league with van gaal - indeed the line up for the final was reizigger, blind, f de bohr and rijkaard playing that hybrid role of defence and midfield
He had Puyol at Barca who could play on the right side of that formation as well as he played at cb and rb
Or play Badstuber in the centre and Blind on the right
Didnt see the draft so I dont know if any or all of those got taken (I imagine Puyol did) but Reizigger would certainly add balance
 

Joga Bonito

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I'm leaning towards Guttman's team here. It promises to be an open game with plenty of goals in it, in the end I can just see Balu's attack having more joy in this game than Paolo's. Don't think Paolo's defense has the physicality and the pace (Rijkaard wasn't at his physical peak here) to deal with players such as Joya, Eusebio and Augusto (to a lesser extent) who were absolutely rapid.
 

Theon

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Ooof, bit harsh this score so far.

I think Ribery would see a lot of success in this match and Rivaldo playing off Kluivert is a fantastic proven partnership, they were excellent at Barcelona. With Ribery and Muller stretching that very narrow defence I think the two Barca lads will get some joy there.

Agree with SunTzu's comments about Rijkaard though, it would have been better if he was in pushed slightly higher with another defender in behind. That said, it's not a disaster.
 

Paolo Di Canio

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We seem to be talking alot about Balu and Pedros team attacking but not about them defending, could maldini deal with a player like Ribery constantly running at him? we dont know

What about Mauro Ramos, could he deal with the duo of Rivaldo and Kluivert?
 

Theon

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Found this video of that partnership in action

 

Balu

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Ooof, bit harsh this score so far.

I think Ribery would see a lot of success in this match and Rivaldo playing off Kluivert is a fantastic proven partnership, they were excellent at Barcelona. With Ribery and Muller stretching that very narrow defence I think the two Barca lads will get some joy there.

Agree with SunTzu's comments about Rijkaard though, it would have been better if he was in pushed slightly higher with another defender in behind. That said, it's not a disaster.
I don't get the point of Ribery and Müller stretching a narrow defence. It's not what Müller does. Müller recently said himself that he struggles against physical defenders and needs to find ways around that, by moving freely around. Fair enough, problem is, if he drags Matosas out wide or inside, there's no one there to exploit the gap opening up, no overlapping fullback and Guardiola is the wrong type of midfielder you want there to exploit these problems. Ribery also usually prefers to cut inside and have an overlapping fullback do the stretching the defense part, which plays into my hands.
 

Balu

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There's also still the big question, who's actually defending against Eusebio here? Surely he deserves some special attention like we give to Rivaldo, I'd actually say he deserves a lot more attention than Rivaldo.

 

Paolo Di Canio

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As much as i cannot deal with your attack you canot deal with mine either, as much as u say you can, Muller has many a time run at a left back to the by line and cut a fast ball across the box which a goal comes from, Ribery will be diagonally running at Maldini who is a centreback not used to dealing with pacey wingers,

I cannot find one piece of footage of mauro ramos to tell you how capable he is, but kluivert is a handful for anyone at his peak, so one on one he wont have it easy
 

Joga Bonito

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I don't get the point of Ribery and Müller stretching a narrow defence. It's not what Müller does. Müller recently said himself that he struggles against physical defenders and needs to find ways around that, by moving freely around. Fair enough, problem is, if he drags Matosas out wide or inside, there's no one there to exploit the gap opening up, no overlapping fullback and Guardiola is the wrong type of midfielder you want there to exploit these problems. Ribery also usually prefers to cut inside and have an overlapping fullback do the stretching the defense part, which plays into my hands.
Agreed on that. Balu's team also has two wide centre-backs who have experience playing as full-backs and as such will have experience playing against pacey wide players.

Both our wide centerbacks have experience as fullbacks. Cesare Maldini started similar to his son as a rightback, was used as a right footed left back a few times for the nationalteam and became a centerback and sweeper later in his career. It's a bit similar with Matosas on the left, who played leftback for the nationalteam a few times.
I can't see Muller enjoying himself on the outer flanks as he is primarily someone who does his business darting inwards. Same thing but to a lesser extent for Ribery who isn't exactly someone who exclusively likes to cut in. He can go on the outside of a defender and put in a good ball but he was someone who preferred cutting in as well. This is exactly what I mentioned about in my earlier post, I don't think Blind is going to enjoy himself too much out there playing as a RCB where he will at times be facing an extremely speedy Joya.
 

Joga Bonito

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As much as i cannot deal with your attack you canot deal with mine either, as much as u say you can, Muller has many a time run at a left back to the by line and cut a fast ball across the box which a goal comes from, Ribery will be diagonally running at Maldini who is a centreback not used to dealing with pacey wingers,

I cannot find one piece of footage of mauro ramos to tell you how capable he is, but kluivert is a handful for anyone at his peak, so one on one he wont have it easy
Agreed on that. Balu's team also has two wide centre-backs who have experience playing as full-backs and as such will have experience playing against pacey wide players.
I swear I hadn't seen your post before I posted mine. :lol:
 

Balu

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as much as u say you can
Oh, I give you 2 goals in the game. Rivaldo + Kluivert are good enough for a goal, no doubt. I don't think Müller and Ribery will do a lot on their own here, but there's a good chance that both show up at the same side once or twice and overload that side and get through, that's good for a goal. I just believe I score more.

It's really difficult to find footage from defenders of past decades. Unless you want to take the time and watch a few full games, but those would mostly be with their nationalteams (Brazil at the World Cup in '62) or of the quality of that Sao Paulo video I posted in the draft thread.
Mauro Ramos is defending somewhere in here:


In the end I need some leeway here, most of what I know about my lesser known players is based on a few quotes, on a few articles. It's difficult to judge players on reputation, I agree. Which is why I don't really question the individual quality of your players either, not at all actually. It's not fair and I don't want to downplay their abilities, I like most of the players in your team.
 

Theon

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I don't get the point of Ribery and Müller stretching a narrow defence. It's not what Müller does. Müller recently said himself that he struggles against physical defenders and needs to find ways around that, by moving freely around. Fair enough, problem is, if he drags Matosas out wide or inside, there's no one there to exploit the gap opening up, no overlapping fullback and Guardiola is the wrong type of midfielder you want there to exploit these problems. Ribery also usually prefers to cut inside and have an overlapping fullback do the stretching the defense part, which plays into my hands.
I don't agree with that at all, Muller has excellent movement and I seem to remember you saying yourself how he exploits space. Here, the space to me looks like its coming out wide, so I'd expect Muller to drift out there into a position in which there is no one to naturally pick him up. If defenders are pulled out to deal with him then that creates space for the Rivaldo/Kluivert partnership.

Muller is clearly the lesser issue compared to Ribery though. Personally I think you're talking nonsense if you don't think Ribery can pick up the ball and drive down that left channel. He's an excellent dribbler and I think there will be a lot of space down the flanks.

On the exploiting the gaps part, that would obviously be Rivaldo from what I can see. It obviously wouldn't be Guardiola doing that.
 

Paolo Di Canio

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Thanks for the bribe Paolo
Nice one mate, cheques in the post,

Oh, I give you 2 goals in the game. Rivaldo + Kluivert are good enough for a goal, no doubt. I don't think Müller and Ribery will do a lot on their own here, but there's a good chance that both show up at the same side once or twice and overload that side and get through, that's good for a goal. I just believe I score more.

It's really difficult to find footage from defenders of past decades. Unless you want to take the time and watch a few full games, but those would mostly be with their nationalteams (Brazil at the World Cup in '62) or of the quality of that Sao Paulo video I posted in the draft thread.
Mauro Ramos is defending somewhere in here:


In the end I need some leeway here, most of what I know about my lesser known players is based on a few quotes, on a few articles. It's difficult to judge players on reputation, I agree. Which is why I don't really question the individual quality of your players either, not at all actually. It's not fair and I don't want to downplay their abilities, I like most of the players in your team.
Me too, its a tough one because we have all seen all my players play for years, so we can form judgement, looking at your system, it looks a bit top heavy, I think you could do with another defender anyway, much like I could, I wanted Lahm or Puyol, but missed out, I had the choice of Reizeger but have never really rated him and felt he over achieved in his carear, I could of gone for Sergi at left full but then again makes me put Blind at rightback which he is not suited too.

Its tough to say because the pace the game is played at now the two Bayern lads could have a field day, they really are lightning quick in attack, your pretty light weight in midfield too, if Goncalves is on Rivaldo and Boznik on Guardiola, Bastien could really hurt you, in later rounds u really need to sort out your midfield with the quality you will be up against
 

Balu

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On the exploiting the gaps part, that would obviously be Rivaldo from what I can see. It obviously wouldn't be Guardiola doing that.
Still don't get it. Müller hugging the line out wide takes him away from where he causes the most problems, Goncalves follows Rivaldo and my defense becomes a back four with Boszik and Coluna in front of them. It gives Guardiola more space in midfield, but you can't seriously suggest that's the best way to use Müller? That's absolutely not like van Gaal would want him to play, not at all and that's definitely not nonsense.

Personally I think you're talking nonsense if you don't think Ribery can pick up the ball and drive down that left channel. He's an excellent dribbler and I think there will be a lot of space down the flanks.
I've never said anything like that. Ribery will get in a lot of one on ones against Maldini senior and drag him out wide and it will cause problems. It's just not a specific weakness in my team, at least not more than Augusto vs de Boer or Joya vs Blind on the opposite side. It's the nature of the set-up of both teams that wide centerbacks have to defend one on one against wingers. Both managers clearly expect and accept that.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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3. Our biggest threat here is the amazing Eusébio. A physical beast and basically unstoppable, when running at a defense, equally threatening in the box and with an outstanding shot from outside. With Rijkaard probably trying to keep Puskás in check and Coluna causing havoc in midfield, there's simply no player in the opposing team, who can defend him.
Balu do you rate Eusebio's attacking threat higher than Puskas'? Or is it just because of Rijkaard's attention to Puskas?

Great write up by the way, it really was a treat
 

Balu

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Its tough to say because the pace the game is played at now the two Bayern lads could have a field day, they really are lightning quick in attack, your pretty light weight in midfield too, if Goncalves is on Rivaldo and Boznik on Guardiola, Bastien could really hurt you, in later rounds u really need to sort out your midfield with the quality you will be up against
Think you underrate Coluna here. He's more like Matthäus or Neeskens when they played those attacking box to box roles. He's part of the midfield battle and will hunt Schweinsteiger down, if van Bommel is the one covering your defense or press Guardiola and leave Schweinsteiger to Bozsik.

My midfield has a wonderful balance and the team being top heavy was the plan from the start and all my attackers are used to play that way, I might change it to a 4-2-4 depending on the opponent, but I don't think the team would perform better that way. A key ingredience is of course that my opponent has more players pinned back as he wants to have. I bang on and on about Eusebio, because he's such a huge threat when running at a defense. He often drops deep, especially with Augusto next to him, they worked brilliant together. His run in the European Cup final against Madrid down the right wing which lead to the game changing penalty is the obvious example for it. You can't defend Eusebio with a centerback or with just a midfielder, you more or less need both. Peak Rijkaard might be the best player to defend against him, which is why I'm so happy that you can't use him there.

I agree on Reiziger by the way, not a big of him either. But I think he would have been a better sub for your team, just because he gives you more tactical options (and at least against my team would improve your team). Once you picked Ribery, there was simply no reason for Overmars anymore. I actually had to make a similar choice, left Zizinho, Schiaffino and a few other great attackers out of the team and went with a leftback, who antohan described as 'boring, not flashy, reliable, got the job done... You could do much worse than that'.
 

Balu

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Balu do you rate Eusebio's attacking threat higher than Puskas'? Or is it just because of Rijkaard's attention to Puskas?

Great write up by the way, it really was a treat
The one who isn't up against Rijkaard gets bonus points here, yes. In general, I'm not sure I could decide between those two. Probably would have said Puskas before this draft, but after digging deeper into this Benfica side and into Eusebio, I really started to like the man as much as I rate the character. Might give him the edge.
 

Theon

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Still don't get it.
:lol: What aren't you getting?

I never said anything as extreme as players would hug the line, I said that there is space out wide - which there is - and when your defenders get pulled out then that will leave gaps for Rivaldo and Kluivert. If you think that Muller and Ribery will see a shit load of space out wide but think 'nah, feck it' lets move into the middle' then I do not agree.

The part I said was nonsense was trying to downplay the clear influence Ribery will have out wide by suggesting he'll look to cut in. It was nothing about Muller. I don't mind what you've said about Muller. He's not going to have his best game here but I don't see that a huge problem, no player is a perfect fit against every type of opponent and every type of formation.

I still think Muller has a role to play though by creating space for Rivaldo/Kluivert.
 

Balu

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I still think Muller has a role to play though by creating space for Rivaldo/Kluivert.
But he can do so much more :( . He probably would anyway, after all, van Gaal let him do his thing and didn't limit him to 'playing a role for Rivaldo/Kluivert'.
 

Rykker_4united

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I think the combination of Puskas and Esuebio would be undefendable, despite the midfield force of Guardiola, Van Bommel and Schweini. Balu/Pedro's team is excellent and with stars like that its hard to vote against them.
 

Buchan

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Seedorf, Cocu, Davids, Overmars, Robben...

I know you can't pick everyone, but there's a strong claim to be made for the inclusion of each of those ahead of the players and formation Paolo eventually settled on.

EDIT: I know I'm being harsh (and I'm also not fully aware of what players were selected by other managers, for instance).
 

Chesterlestreet

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Have to vote and run here, sorry - went for Balu/Pedro. Beautifully set up team, in short: The (central) balance, say, from Goncalves and Boszik, via Coluna, and then Eusebio and Puskas - is perfect for my money. Just right.
 

Paolo Di Canio

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Seedorf, Cocu, Davids, Overmars, Robben...

I know you can't pick everyone, but there's a strong claim to be made for the inclusion of each of those ahead of the players and formation Paolo eventually settled on.

EDIT: I know I'm being harsh (and I'm also not fully aware of what players were selected by other managers, for instance).
They all went too early man, Overmars is on the bench for me, Robben I would have loved tbh aswell as Lahm, I think Davids was not at his peak at Ajax, that was at Juve, Cocu or Bastien was my choice and I just have a thing for Bastien, I had loads of other choices, Stoichkov, Riquelme, Mendieta etc but none were at there best under LVG
 

Buchan

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They all went too early man, Overmars is on the bench for me, Robben I would have loved tbh aswell as Lahm, I think Davids was not at his peak at Ajax, that was at Juve, Cocu or Bastien was my choice and I just have a thing for Bastien, I had loads of other choices, Stoichkov, Riquelme, Mendieta etc but none were at there best under LVG
Davids played under van Gaal for the Dutch national team, too...

Again, as I said, I'm nitpicking and understand that I'm being harsh. Selecting teams and formations is very subjective as it is, especially when you have constraints such as players being drafted earlier etc.