Managerial Turnover

tomaldinho1

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Busby and Ferguson are our two most successful managers. Busby was appointed in mid 1945 and won his first league title in 1952. Ferguson was appointed in late 1986 and won his first league title in 1993. So, it took both those greats in excess of six years to build a title winning side. Solskjaer has been in post for 14 months, so give the guy a chance to build a title winning side. He's on the right track, after embarking on a major clear out of the mess which has taken place since the sale of Ronaldo in 2009. That's a mess created under the watch of Ferguson, Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho.
Why? Honestly, why should he be given more time? I'm not being provocative but that's a genuine question, why would you not want someone with at least some kind of a track record in his seat right now - he's never built a high press team, he's never won anything of note, the list goes on. I love Ole, he's a United legend, but we are so overly emotional as a fanbase if we can't all see the woods for the trees on this one.
 

Andycoleno9

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Busby and Ferguson are our two most successful managers. Busby was appointed in mid 1945 and won his first league title in 1952. Ferguson was appointed in late 1986 and won his first league title in 1993. So, it took both those greats in excess of six years to build a title winning side. Solskjaer has been in post for 14 months, so give the guy a chance to build a title winning side. He's on the right track, after embarking on a major clear out of the mess which has taken place since the sale of Ronaldo in 2009. That's a mess created under the watch of Ferguson, Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho.
So you think that failed Cardiff manager whos last good result was before 10 years in Norway league, can build title winning team if you just give him time?
So based on the fact that Ole has nothing in his CV which can prove that he can do it on this level, you want to say that any random manager can build title winning team just if you give him time?
 

Chipper

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What's the average managerial stay in the league these days? There's usually articles produced on this sort of thing every now and then but I'm not seeing anything bang up to date after doing a quick search.

Think it's somehwere around 2 years but can't be sure. A quick look here has 8 current managers 2 years or over, 12 less than that.

Anyway, the point is that I don't see frequent manager changes as that big a deal anymore. A really successful one can and will often stay a fair bit more than 2 years, maybe 5-7 but even that's not prerequisite for a club to have success. Just got to look at Chelsea and the trophies they've won with varying managers. It's the way that modern football is for better or worse.

It's why I don't see Mourinho's tenure here as a big disaster like some do. He was here about an average length of time for a manager and produced our best results post-Fergie. When he went he had to go and we move on.
 

Redlips

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“United way”
“Back the manager”
“Imagine if we had sacked Fergie in 900B.C”

For some reason United Is not supposed to operate like most elite clubs, which ironically enough is partly why we find ourselves in this malaise.
Precisely this.
 

RUCK4444

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The implication was that we shouldn't appoint shite managers. And if that does happen, we should remedy the situation as soon as, instead of doing prayer circle and hoping the spirit of Fergie will manifest in said shite managers and they will suddenly evolve like Pokemon.
Of course, that would have fixed everything.

Of course no mention of which managers you would have selected in that time, no no, just ‘change manager’

It’s exactly the same as a gambler throwing coin after coin into a gambling machine meanwhile telling his mates ‘the next one will be the one, just watch!’

There have been two managers in the years since Fergie left that would have had an impact, they manage in Liverpool and Manchester funnily enough, we missed out on both.
 

Shamana

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Of course, that would have fixed everything.

Of course no mention of which managers you would have selected in that time, no no, just ‘change manager’

It’s exactly the same as a gambler throwing coin after coin into a gambling machine meanwhile telling his mates ‘the next one will be the one, just watch!’

There have been two managers in the years since Fergie left that would have had an impact, they manage in Liverpool and Manchester funnily enough, we missed out on both.
Hmm yeah, so again the only managers that would improve us other than Ole is Klopp and Pep...
 

Enigma_87

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Because some top reds are feeling privileged and they want to do it the "United way".

In today's football managers usually stay for 2-3 seasons on average, yet the same "Ole in" guys expect Ole to come good after 10 years and being backed with 1bln to finish his rebuild. :lol:
 

RUCK4444

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Hmm yeah, so again the only managers that would improve us other than Ole is Klopp and Pep...
Names!? Please sir, give me names.

Not one Ole Out poster has given one and that is feckin saying something considering this forum has been infected with them from top to bottom.
 

RUCK4444

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Because some top reds are feeling privileged and they want to do it the "United way".

In today's football managers usually stay for 2-3 seasons on average, yet the same "Ole in" guys expect Ole to come good after 10 years and being backed with 1bln to finish his rebuild. :lol:
Ironically Ole is building a better squad than we've had in a long time and far quicker than Mourinho or LVG who wasted money hand over fist.
 

Ventura

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Why is our fanbase (driven by the media) so over-dramatic about the number of managers we've had since Fergie? We've had 4 managers in the 7 years since, and each one has been sacked only after he's completely shit the bed.

In that time period :

Real Madrid : 6 managers (5 if you say Solari was always a caretaker)
Barcelona : 4 managers
Juventus : 3 managers
Chelsea : 4 managers
Bayern Munich : 3 managers
Dortmund : 4 managers
Spurs : 4 managers

Most of these clubs have actually been successful in that time period, yet are still running through their fair share of managers. How many do you think they would've gone through, had they been on course to finish 5 of the last 8 seasons outside of the top 4 - that too after letting each manager spend £100s of millions in transfer fees. What they actually have done is, sacked them at the right time rather than giving the manager enough time to completely sink the ship.
What that also shows is that the manager isn't as big a part of the success as most cafsters seem to believe. Main thing is to have a good squad and setup at the club, and then the manager can add that last 10 %. So sucessful clubs can keep changing managers and stay successful, while we keep changing managers and still fail. So we're probably going to keep changing managers for the next 20 years while everything else stays the same, and wonder why we're not able to find that magic manager who can deliver success. The next guy is surely the solution, eh?
 

RUCK4444

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What that also shows is that the manager isn't as big a part of the success as most cafsters seem to believe. Main thing is to have a good squad and setup at the club, and then the manager can add that last 10 %. So sucessful clubs can keep changing managers and stay successful, while we keep changing managers and still fail. So we're probably going to keep changing managers for the next 20 years while everything else stays the same, and wonder why we're not able to find that magic manager who can deliver success. The next guy is surely the solution, eh?
Exactly mate. A high quality squad with strength in depth is what we need more than anything.

This is the one major reason I still back Ole, because I don’t care what anybody here says - Ole has bought well and got rid of highly paid tripe.

If we can get top four and recruit well again in the summer then this season is a success in my eyes (when you consider our current stage of rebuilding.)

We needed huge changes in the squad, anybody who expected unbelievable football during that period lives in dreamland.

This wasn’t a case of replacing a few players, almost every position on the pitch you could argue needed improving.
 

Shamana

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Names!? Please sir, give me names.

Not one Ole Out poster has given one and that is feckin saying something considering this forum has been infected with them from top to bottom.
Are you joking? Have you not heard the name's like Poch and Nagelsmann here a million times? Or proven trophy winners like Allegri Or Conte? If you havn't heard any alternavies to Ole, you must be living in a different universe and if you think Ole is the most elite manager out there bar Klopp and Pep, I would suggest that you still living in a alternative universe.

I'd take even fecking Brendan Rodgers in a heartbeat over Ole if it was possible.
 

Caesar2290

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Oh boy, this thread is going to be pure gold
“United way”
“Back the manager”
“Imagine if we had sacked Fergie in 900B.C”

For some reason United Is not supposed to operate like most elite clubs, which ironically enough is partly why we find ourselves in this malaise.
:lol:


As much as I love and respect the man, I do feel SAFs farewell speech did more harm than good.

I know I was reluctant to publically voice displeasure with Moyes and even when I did with LvG I felt I was somehow wrong for doing so. Looking back that was borne out of some sort of sense of duty to Fergie's last request.

Unfortunately SAFs own modesty means he probably doesn't fully appreciate how much of one off he was and seems to think he got to where he was due to time, which is why many posters on here preach the patience=success rhetoric.
Agreed 100%. And the fact that he thought that Martin O'Neil, David Moyes and Sven Goran Erikson were up to the task of replacing him kind of confirms that.

Oh for feck sake.
:lol:

Busby and Ferguson are our two most successful managers. Busby was appointed in mid 1945 and won his first league title in 1952. Ferguson was appointed in late 1986 and won his first league title in 1993. So, it took both those greats in excess of six years to build a title winning side. Solskjaer has been in post for 14 months, so give the guy a chance to build a title winning side. He's on the right track, after embarking on a major clear out of the mess which has taken place since the sale of Ronaldo in 2009. That's a mess created under the watch of Ferguson, Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho.

You know what, feck it. Let's sack Ole and appoint me as the Manager of Man Utd. I promise that I'll clear out the deadwood, play the youth and follow the United Way to a T. Hell, I'll even work for only a meager 10000 pounds a month.

Now if you guys are going to give me 7 years I promise that I'll deliver the league. Feck it, give me 13 years and I'll bring home the Treble again. At the end of the day, just give me more time, that should fix things.

What that also shows is that the manager isn't as big a part of the success as most cafsters seem to believe. Main thing is to have a good squad and setup at the club, and then the manager can add that last 10 %.
Complete and utter rubbish. Name me 2 Liverpool players that would be guaranteed starters for our Treble team or the 2008 team. Go on, I'll wait.

For the Treble team only Van Dijk is a guaranteed starter. In the 2008 team not a single one will start over our team. And yet these guys are just destroying the league this year.

Now appoint Ole as the manager of Liverpool and please tell me, will Liverpool even finish in the Top 3 this season?
 

Rafaeldagold

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It’s funny but the only two managers that media didn’t crucify were Moyes and Ole.
It’s almost as if clearly out of their depth managers get a free a free pass
It’s because the media love to see us do badly & so tread lightly around clueless managers like Moyes & Ole as they can’t believe their luck we still have them in charge- as we’re not a threat anymore
 

mu4c_20le

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Complete and utter rubbish. Name me 2 Liverpool players that would be guaranteed starters for our Treble team or the 2008 team. Go on, I'll wait.

For the Treble team only Van Dijk is a guaranteed starter. In the 2008 team not a single one will start over our team. And yet these guys are just destroying the league this year.
I would easily take Salah or Mane over Tevez.
 
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When Jose took over lvg's squad, at least he didn't struggle to get rid of overpaid unmotivated deadwood. He was gifted with a Pogba and then a few other big signings.
Didn't Jose end up with the likes of Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Rojo & an absolutely ridiculous washed up Wayne Rooney massive contract problem @mu4c_20le ? He still had Mata and Fellaini on his books too.

And hasn't Ole been gifted with a player as expensive as Pogba and then a few other expensive signings?

Hasn't Ole now spent more, both net and gross than Mourinho in his first year in charge? (the answer is yes & yes btw).
 

wolvored

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Why is our fanbase (driven by the media) so over-dramatic about the number of managers we've had since Fergie? We've had 4 managers in the 7 years since, and each one has been sacked only after he's completely shit the bed.

In that time period :

Real Madrid : 6 managers (5 if you say Solari was always a caretaker)
Barcelona : 4 managers
Juventus : 3 managers
Chelsea : 4 managers
Bayern Munich : 3 managers
Dortmund : 4 managers
Spurs : 4 managers

Most of these clubs have actually been successful in that time period, yet are still running through their fair share of managers. How many do you think they would've gone through, had they been on course to finish 5 of the last 8 seasons outside of the top 4 - that too after letting each manager spend £100s of millions in transfer fees. What they actually have done is, sacked them at the right time rather than giving the manager enough time to completely sink the ship.
The 2 most successful managers were here for over 25 years and thats what most fans think is the norm. The most successful modern managers elsewhere are averaging around 5 years. I dont think you will get another manager doing 20 odd years at any club.
 

Leftback99

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What that also shows is that the manager isn't as big a part of the success as most cafsters seem to believe. Main thing is to have a good squad and setup at the club, and then the manager can add that last 10 %. So sucessful clubs can keep changing managers and stay successful, while we keep changing managers and still fail. So we're probably going to keep changing managers for the next 20 years while everything else stays the same, and wonder why we're not able to find that magic manager who can deliver success. The next guy is surely the solution, eh?
Pretty much. I don't know how the likes of Real, Barcelona and Bayern have stayed successful having the likes of Ronaldo, Modric, Ramos, Messi, Neymar, Suarez, Lewandowski etc. on their books whilst going through such managerial turmoil. Our best player in that time? A goalkeeper, it says it all. The one season we had a top class forward worthy of the badge, two trophies.
 

Bosnian_fan

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It does unfortunately seem a question of football knowledge and to some degree intelligence whether you support Ole or not. I mean, saying that only two managers guaranteed to do job better than him would be Klopp and Pep is such a stupidity that it can hardly be understood.

There are better managers than Ole all over Europe, literally all over Europe. And it's becoming fecking tiring to dig up arguments trying to explain to people just how silly it is to believe nobody could do better job than Ole. I mean, it's like somebody is forcing you to explain why Messi is better than Lingard. It is a given, absolutely no need to argue about that.
 
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JPRouve

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Because some top reds are feeling privileged and they want to do it the "United way".

In today's football managers usually stay for 2-3 seasons on average, yet the same "Ole in" guys expect Ole to come good after 10 years and being backed with 1bln to finish his rebuild. :lol:
In the past it was also around that. People are creating rules based on exceptions.
 

RUCK4444

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It does unfortunately seem a question of football knowledge and to some degree intelligence whether you support Ole or not. I mean, saying that only two managers guaranteed to do job better than him would be Klopp and Pep is such a stupidity that it can hardly be understood.

There are better managers than Ole all over Europe, literally all over Europe. And it's becoming fecking tiring to dig up arguments trying to explain to people just how silly it is to believe nobody could do better job than Ole. I mean, it's like somebody is forcing you to explain why Messi is better than Lingard. It is a given, absolutely no need to argue about that.
You are mistaking what I said, I never once said (or thought) that Ole is only bettered by Pep and Klopp.

What I’ve implied is that to reach the Caf expectations and indeed the standards we usually expect at this club (ie competing in all comps) that we would have needed one of those two.

After years of regression and mismanagement to the tune of 1 BILLION, with the state of the squad and key injuries - any manager would struggle to correct that with one summer transfer window.

That in essence is exactly what most here demand surely? To correct everything in one summer window? Because that is where we are right now with Ole.
 

dave1956

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If you look at the periods between Sir Matt's second term and the arrival of Sir Alex, the club had a fair turn over of managers, I think the average tenure was 3 seasons, so we do have a history of sacking poor performing managers. I must say that at present Ole does come under the heading of a poor performing manager.
 

jem

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Everything you just said, minus worse points total, applied to Mourinho's 2nd season. If managers should be sacked because of embarrassing results, he shouldn't been gone after Sevilla, because the football was absolute shite with no desire to improve, and he had a much better squad than Solskjaer. He was fully backed by the board.
Really? Wasn't that the season we finished second? And if the squad was much better it was only because Ole has been so quick to gut this squad without finding replacements. He could've kept Smalling, Lukaku, Fellaini and Sanchez.
 

jem

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Thank you, thats a fair and sensible post. They both don't appear to be good enough, but with no chance of Poch or Allegri stepping in mid season, it makes little sense to relieve him of his duties now and give it to Phelan, and pray for a little bounce to survive the next set of fixtures. If Poch was available right now, then it'd be a more serious and valid question.
What makes you think Poch is not available right now? Have I missed something?
 

momo83

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Now appoint Ole as the manager of Liverpool and please tell me, will Liverpool even finish in the Top 3 this season?
No. Henderson was always a highly rated world class CM, Milner 34 years old but such a glamorous signing, Matip woow free signing but beat off competition from Real, Barca and Real, Salah was already a goal machine, Firminho already Brazil’s best number 9, Robertson omg the the most obvious signing you could make in that position was already world class, Trent don’t tell me you haven’t been hearing about him since he was 10. Klopp has clearly had it handed to him on a plate and it’s nothing to do with him as a manager.

Football management is just Fifa with everyone having the exact same ability and the only difference being the stats of their players.
 

passing-wind

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Due to a reality us fans have not had to endure since SAF, it takes time for the right appointment to situate itself with manifestation of success. Mourinho was a successful manager here but his tenure isn't recieved that way because he didn't align with what the club envisioned long term. If Solskjaer won the Europa league, domestic cup and a community shield his fanboys would be going ballistic on here, they are already doing so with him achieving nothing.

I think there's success in football but with clubs like us and probably Barcelona due to the culture of the clubs there's a criteria to that success.