Managers Draft - R1: Gio vs The Red Viper

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Spoiler: Old Formation: Gio

vs

......................................... Team @Gio ........................................................................................ vs Team @The Red Viper ..................................

..................... Manager: Giovanni Trappatoni ..................................................................................... Manager: Pep Guadriola ...........................



Team Gio(vanni Trappatoni)

It's Guardiola Barcelona against classic Trapenaccio. Pep's Barca never faced a defence and midfield this strong. With respect to the possession-retaining abilities of TRV's team, we will set up compact and hit TRV on the counter. In defence we will always have a spare man. Reuter will sit on (the ageing) Henry leaving the back three to deal with Messi and Robben on the rare occasions he gets beyond Cabrini. In midfield it's three one-on-one battles: Matthaus v Xavi, Tardelli v Iniesta, Rivera v Busquets. None of TRV's three has tried to break down a midfield of that calibre. And they'll never live with them on the counter. Up front Batistuta and Klinsmann will cause all sorts of problems and provide a reliable out-ball. Klinsmann will drift to the left to exploit the space left by Alves, pulling Puyol out of position and leaving Batistuta on Pique. And we know how that will turn out.

It will be compact, counter-attacking catenaccio with players perfectly suited to the job in hand. That's because there is massive respect for Pep's Barca and their mastery of the short passing game. But fundamentally it will be about exposing the weakest links on the park, namely TRV's back-line. The biggest mismatch will be Batistuta taking Pique to the cleaners. That's worth a goal at least. As will be Matthaus bursting from midfield with little genuine resistance.

_______________________________________________________________________________


Team The Red Viper (Pep Guadriola)

THE TEAM
​

We will play a 4-3-3 formation. Manuel Neuer would be the goalkeeper. He would play as a sweeper-keeper like he does for Bayern Munich and Germany NT. The back four comprises of Philipp Lahm, Carles Puyol, Gerard Piqué and Éric Abidal. Philipp Lahm and Éric Abidal would play as full-backs, who would have the lincense to overlap and provide the width down the flanks. Gerard Piqué would be the sweeper while Carles Puyol would be the stopper. Gerard Piqué's form has deteriorated in the last few years but under Pep Guardiola, especially in the first couple of seasons, he and Puyol were arguably the best central defence in Europe. Together, they were instrumental in FC Barcelona being the first club to win the sextuple and also bring Spain their first FIFA World Cup, home.

Ahead of them, is a three man midfield of Sergio Busquets, Xavi Hernández and Andrés Iniesta. Sergio Busquets would play as a holding midfielder whose role would be to not only cover and protect the back four but also to link the defence with the advanced midfield duo of Xavi Hernández and Andrés Iniesta. Xavi Hernández is the metronome of the team. He would control the tempo of the game and would also look to initiate the attacks. Playing ahead of the the midfield maestro, Xavi would be The Illusionist, Andrés Iniesta. Andrés Iniesta would play as an attacking midfielder who would not only link the midfield with the attack and create the openings for the attack to exploit but also would support the midfield when the opposition has the possession.

Upfront, we have an attacking triumvirate of Arjen Robben, Lionel Messi and Thierry Henry. Arjen Robben would play in his natural role as a right-wing-forward, where he would look to isolate the opposition defenders in one-on-one situations and then simply skin them inside out. On the other flank, we would have Thierry Henry playing as the left-wing-forward/left-sided-second striker, the role he played under Pep Guardiola in the 2008/09 season. Having someone like Thierry Henry gives the team, the license to interchange and create futher confusion amongst the opposition defenders. Spearheading the attack, is Lionel Messi. What is there to say about him? Arguably the greatest club footballer of all time, Lionel Messi would play as a false nine, a role which he mastered under Pep Guardiola. Whenever, Lionel Messi drops deep and thereby dragging the opposition centre-backs with him, that would create space in the defence which the likes of Thierry Henry and Arjen Robben would look to exploit with their pace and penetration. In Lionel Messi, Xavi Hernández and Andrés Iniesta, there are three of the finest passers in the modern era who could find the openings and provide the final ball for Thierry Henry and Arjen Robben to finish it off.

THE TACTICS​

Like Pep Guardiola's FC Barcelona side, we will play a 4-3-3 formation. We would play a high backline and look to press relentlessly and aggressively from the front, thereby making the transition for Gio & Theon difficult. The high intense pressing would mean, their players won't get enough time on the ball to create proper openings to exploit. Gio & Theon are most likely to set-up a 3-5-2/5-3-2 formation. Their lack of width would be an issue and in order to exploit that, we would have Philipp Lahm overlap regularly and make it s 2 v/s 1 situation against Antonio Cabrini on that flank. As good as Cabrini was, he would have a tough time dealing against an electric wide attacker like Arjen Robben, and with Philipp Lahm there to support Arjen Robben, it would be an even more tough for Antonio Cabrini to contain. If Gio & Theon decide to start with both Jürgen Klinsmann and Gabriel Batistuta, Éric Abidal would play in a slightly more reserved role, as the third centre back to ensure, we always have a numerical advantage at the back against their counter-attacks. But, that would also mean that they would have to start with only one of Gianni Rivera/Rui Costa, who would be the sole major-creator in their team. This is where, Sergio Busquets' role is vital. Since one of Gianni Rivera/Rui Costa would be their sole creator, Sergio Busquets would press whenever they have the ball and thereby ensuring they don't get too much time or space on the ball to provide those telling final balls. If Gio & Theon end up starting only one striker upfront, then, like Philipp Lahm on the other flank, Éric Abidal would overlap regularly and create 2 v/s 1 situation against Stefan Reuter. Daniel Passarella is obviously one of the finest defenders to have graced the game of football, but it must be noted that the Daniel Passarella, Gio & Theon have is not the one who is at his peak. It is the thirty-three year old Daniel Passarella who was past his peak when he joined Giovanni Trapattoni's Inter Milan in 1986. Still a good player, but not the old self who could influence in attack or defence the same way as he used to.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Game On!

All the best to both managers.

 

[PedroMendez]

who are the subs for both teams?

 

[Mani]

This should be a Intresting contest.

 

[The Red Viper]

who are the subs for both teams?

Dani Alves for me. Rui Costa for Gio & Theon.

 

[The Red Viper]

Good Luck, Gio & Theon!

 

[Gio]

Good luck Viper.

 

[Gio]

PLAYER PROFILES

Walter Zenga
Three-time IHFFS World Goalkeeper of the year, 1987 Serie A Player of the Year and 1990 UEFA Goalkeeper of the Year, Zenga renews his formidable and, importantly, proven partnerships with Passarella and Ferri.

Riccardo Ferri
One of the finest and highest-performing defenders in Serie A during the 1980s. Ferri was an Inter and Italy stalwart who kept the likes of Vierchowod and Ferrara out of the national team. Formed a key component of perhaps the greatest international defence of all time - Italy's bulletproof World Cup 1990 back-line - which didn't concede a single goal throughout the tournament until deep into the semi-final. Quick and strong.

Jurgen Kohler
One of the greatest defenders of all time and easily the stand-out man-marker of the modern era. During a decorated career where he shone at all levels, it was under Trapattoni at Juventus he had the second-highest average rating of any Serie A player in 1991/92.

Daniel Passarella
One of the greatest defenders of all time who was one of the shining lights of Serie A in the 1980s. Joined Inter at the same time as Trapattoni and continued his excellent Fiorentina form, boasting one of the highest average ratings in the league, and marshalling a tight unit. Commanding on the ball, he was good for a goal every three games or so and notched up 15 goals during his two seasons at Inter.

Antonio Cabrini
One of the finest left wing-backs of all time who featured for Italy in 18 consecutive World Cup games between 1978 and 1986. In his element in a Trapattoni 3-5-2.

Stefan Reuter
Coined 'Turbo' in homage to his sheer pace, Reuter was an important cog in the World Cup and European Championship successes of 1990 and 1996. A hard-working team-player who will invariably hold a flank together.

Lothar Matthaus
Arguably the greatest box-to-box midfielder of all time. His duels with Diego Maradona were the stuff of legend, as were his talismanic performances for West Germany in 1990. Played his absolute best football under Trapattoni where they shared domestic and European victory together, capped with Matthaus' 1991 Ballon D'Or award.

Marco Tardelli
One of the greatest engine room midfielders of all time. A tenacious, warrior-like presence in the middle who was capable of scoring goals when it mattered most.

Gianni Rivera
Ballon D'Or winner regarded as one of the finest Italian players of all time. Trapattoni first took over Milan when Rivera was 30, in the middle of him leading the Rossoneri to two successive European finals. Magical passer who invariably features in any all-time Milan or Italian XI.

Rui Costa
Played his best football under Trapattoni at Fiorentina where the Portuguese playmaker struck up a telepathic partnership with Batistuta.

Gabriel Batistuta
Goal machine who plundered goals up against the great Serie A defences of the 1990s. A jaw-dropping 56 goals in just 78 international games.

Jurgen Klinsmann
Quick and tenacious all-round striker who was a star of the show at the 1990 and 1994 World Cups as well as Euro 1996. Perhaps best remembered for his legendary solo line-leading performance against the talented Dutch team at Italia '90.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I don't get Gio's Klinsmann point - dragging Puyol left, leaving Pique open to being savaged by Batistuta, won't necessarily happen, as Abidal is a very capable defender for a fullback.

EDIT Viper mentions this in his write-up too.

 

[Gio]

I don't get Gio's Klinsmann point - dragging Puyol left, leaving Pique open to being savaged by Batistuta, won't necessarily happen, as Abidal is a very capable defender for a fullback.

EDIT Viper mentions this in his write-up too.

Well I'd make a couple of points:

• With Lahm high, there is space in the right-back area to exploit. Klinsmann was expert at foraging wide, winning free-kicks and moving his team up the park from those sorts of areas. It's also the sort of area where Puyol is out of his comfort zone.
• Appreciate that Abidal may play more conserved. But is he going to get right across and on top of Batistuta every time? And he will likely have his hands full dealing with the arriving midfield cavalry.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

That said, I don't think there can be any doubt that there is a fairly big difference here in terms of defenses. I rate the partnership (not necessarily the individuals, certainly not Pique) of P and P quite highly, as they were indeed very effective for Pep during his golden spell with Barca.

But Gio is right - they were never up against anything like G/T's midfield. The reason why Barca's defense as a unit worked was that they were rarely put under heavy (and sustained) pressure, due to the ball retaining ways of the team as such - and the ability of that midfield to pass the opponent to death, so to speak. They'll find it harder than ever to succeed with that here.

 

[PedroMendez]

I think a back5 is a severe disadvantage. TRV will have all the possession infront of Gio´s backline, which is an accident to happen against peak-messi. It also renders Matthäus and tardelli fairly inefficant. They´ll chase ghosts, never catching the player with the ball. Once retaining possession they start too deep to show their best. Gio only has a chance of winning the ball at the edge of his own box, where his line has to defend.

 

[antohan]

This would be a cracking game. Love the look of Gio's team across the board, while TRV has tiki-taka nailed down there and very hard to improve upon.

Almost everyone is also at their peak form bar both Passarella and Rivera and, on that count alone, I'm going with TRV. His defence looks vulnerable and I would far prefer to watch Gio's side, but that shit worked and they were unplayable in their pomp.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Well I'd make a couple of points:

• With Lahm high, there is space in the right-back area to exploit. Klinsmann was expert at foraging wide, winning free-kicks and moving his team up the park from those sorts of areas. It's also the sort of area where Puyol is out of his comfort zone.
• Appreciate that Abidal may play more conserved. But is he going to get right across and on top of Batistuta every time? And he will likely have his hands full dealing with the arriving midfield cavalry.

Aye - fair point about Klinsmann. I'd rather stress his ability to roam into wide positions generally, though. Because the specific point about him dragging Puyol out of his comfort zone doesn't ring as true as it should if one considers Abidal a third defender (rather than a side back).

 

[Gio]

That said, I don't think there can be any doubt that there is a fairly big difference here in terms of defenses. I rate the partnership (not necessarily the individuals, certainly not Pique) of P and P quite highly, as they were indeed very effective for Pep during his golden spell with Barca.

But Gio is right - they were never up against anything like G/T's midfield. The reason why Barca's defense as a unit worked was that they were rarely put under heavy (and sustained) pressure, due to the ball retaining ways of the team as such - and the ability of that midfield to pass the opponent to death, so to speak. They'll find it harder than ever to succeed with that here.

I like the Puyol and Pique partnership as well. Where they seriously struggled was against back-to-goal experts like Didier Drogba or a forager-and-finisher like Diego Milito. We've got a lot of those kinds of qualities in our attacking duo.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

This would be a cracking game. Love the look of Gio's team across the board, while TRV has tiki-taka nailed down there and very hard to improve upon.

Almost everyone is also at their peak form bar both Passarella and Rivera and, on that count alone, I'm going with TRV. His defence looks vulnerable and I would far prefer to watch Gio's side, but that shit worked and they were unplayable in their pomp.

How much past his peak was Rivera for Trap, though? That would be a key question here, I think.

 

[The Red Viper]

Well I'd make a couple of points:

• With Lahm high, there is space in the right-back area to exploit. Klinsmann was expert at foraging wide, winning free-kicks and moving his team up the park from those sorts of areas. It's also the sort of area where Puyol is out of his comfort zone.
• Appreciate that Abidal may play more conserved. But is he going to get right across and on top of Batistuta every time? And he will likely have his hands full dealing with the arriving midfield cavalry.

Puyol won't really be out of his comfort zone though. He was very pacy and don't forget, when Dani Alves was suspended against United in the 2008/09 UEFA Champions League Final, It was Puyol who played as a Right Back against Cristiano Ronaldo and did a very good job against him. Leaving the first ten odd minutes, I don't remember Cristiano doing much against Puyol. And, while Klinsi was a very good striker, no way he is a better player than Cristiano in one-on-one situations. Also, Puyol has the physicality to match Klinsi's.

As for Batigol, a great great striker. How I will deal with him is, lets say there is an aerial ball, and Pique and Batigol compete for it. Batigol would win it mostly but there is where Abidal comes into the frame as his role would be to win those second balls.

 

[Gio]

This would be a cracking game. Love the look of Gio's team across the board, while TRV has tiki-taka nailed down there and very hard to improve upon.

Almost everyone is also at their peak form bar both Passarella and Rivera and, on that count alone, I'm going with TRV. His defence looks vulnerable and I would far prefer to watch Gio's side, but that shit worked and they were unplayable in their pomp.

Except Thierry Henry, who is well past his peak here - more so than any other player on the park IMO. Passarella performed to a very high level under Trapattoni - his average ratings in the Italian papers prove that. As does his impressive goal return. And importantly, and in acknowledgement to his age, we've stuck him in a system that complements his strengths and minimises any perceived weaknesses.

 

[Gio]

How much past his peak was Rivera for Trap, though? That would be a key question here, I think.

We're looking at a 30-year-old who captained Milan and, when Trap took over, was in the middle of leading Milan to two consecutive European finals. We've also got to weigh in the fact he played for Milan for another 5 years beyond that and won a Serie A title at the age of 35/36. As a technical player who let the ball do the work, he's not one to decline rapidly with age. Honestly I don't think it's quite Ballon D'Or Rivera, but it's close enough to make him a hell of a threat. Especially up against Busquets who has never faced a playmaker of that calibre before and doesn't excel off the ball.

 

[Gio]

I think a back5 is a severe disadvantage. TRV will have all the possession infront of Gio´s backline, which is an accident to happen against peak-messi. It also renders Matthäus and tardelli fairly inefficant. They´ll chase ghosts, never catching the player with the ball. Once retaining possession they start too deep to show their best. Gio only has a chance of winning the ball at the edge of his own box, where his line has to defend.

Let's be realistic. Nobody's going to out-pass this mob. The worst thing we can do is press in stupid areas and get caught open. It's about recognising that strength and adapting your own game accordingly. We're not parked in the box, we can still be competitive and threatening on the break. Chelsea, Inter and Bayern did that time and time again against this Barcelona team. Except here we have better players to do that job.

 

[The Red Viper]

How much past his peak was Rivera for Trap, though? That would be a key question here, I think.

Not any. Rivera's peak was in late sixties and early seventies.

Trap managed Milan for a month or two in 1974 and the 1975-76 season.

The 1975-76 season for Rivera was his worst of his career along with his last professional season in 1978-79 where he scored only two goals from 22 games. In the few months, Trap managed AC Milan in 1974, Rivera didn't feature much. Especially in their Semi Final victory in the Cup Winners' Cup against Borussia Mönchengladbach, Rivera didn't feature in both the legs. He did in the Cup Winners' Cup Final against FC Magdeburg, but they lost that match 2-0.

 

[PedroMendez]

Except Thierry Henry, who is well past his peak here - more so than any other player on the park IMO. Passarella performed to a very high level under Trapattoni - his average ratings in the Italian papers prove that. As does his impressive goal return. And importantly, and in acknowledgement to his age, we've stuck him in a system that complements his strengths and minimises any perceived weaknesses.

Henry is a odd pick anyway. He wouldnt have a good game. He is the only reason why I havent voted for TRV yet. Klinsmann and Rivera are not necessarily the payer you want to have isolated on top, so they might struggle as well. Anyway. I think your tactical lineup is inferior.

Let's be realistic. Nobody's going to out-pass this mob. The worst thing we can do is press in stupid areas and get caught open. It's about recognising that strength and adapting your own game accordingly. We're not parked in the box, we can still be competitive and threatening on the break. Chelsea, Inter and Bayern did that time and time again against this Barcelona team. Except here we have better players to do that job.

A defensive midfielder who sits centrally in front of the defence would be a much better choice.

 

[Gio]

Not any. Rivera's peak was in late sixties and early seventies.

Trap managed Milan for a month or two in 1974 and the 1975-76 season.

The 1975-76 season for Rivera was his worst of his career along with his last professional season in 1978-79 where he scored only two goals from 22 games. In the few months, Trap managed AC Milan in 1974, Rivera didn't feature much. Especially in their Semi Final victory in the Cup Winners' Cup against Borussia Mönchengladbach, Rivera didn't feature in both the legs. He did in the Cup Winners' Cup Final against FC Magdeburg, but they lost that match 2-0.

Rivera was 30, a lot closer to his playmaking peak than many of the other greats. He's in here because of Trap's caretaking stint. The spirit of the draft is using the players at their best levels under a manager, not a lower level a couple of years later.

 

[The Red Viper]

I disagree about Henry. Yes, It wasn't the Henry of Arsenal. But he was still a brilliant player.

Thierry Henry in the 2008-09 season:- In 35 starts, Henry had 25 goals and 11 assists that season, scoring and assisting against teams like Bayern Munich in UCL or Valencia in La Liga, when they were flying high or the assist against Real Madrid in the first El Clasico or the opening goal for Barca which levelled the score in the second El Clasico and then scored his second goal to give Barca a 4-2 lead before he was subbed out to preserve him for the important UCL games.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Not any. Rivera's peak was in late sixties and early seventies.

Trap managed Milan for a month or two in 1974 and the 1975-76 season.

The 1975-76 season for Rivera was his worst of his career along with his last professional season in 1978-79 where he scored only two goals from 22 games. In the few months, Trap managed AC Milan in 1974, Rivera didn't feature much. Especially in their Semi Final victory in the Cup Winners' Cup against Borussia Mönchengladbach, Rivera didn't feature in both the legs. He did in the Cup Winners' Cup Final against FC Magdeburg, but they lost that match 2-0.

That's highly specific, though - the sort of specifics one doesn't necessarily have to focus on (as a voter). If one concludes that Rivera hadn't declined much from the player he was at his absolute peak in 1974, then that's arguably the key point here: He played for Trap in 1974 - whether he did so much or not so much isn't really relevant. Or so one could argue.

Rivera's dribbling, his passing, his technique, his playmaking ability - his main strengths as a player - were still there.

 

[The Red Viper]

Rivera was 30, a lot closer to his playmaking peak than many of the other greats. He's in here because of Trap's caretaking stint. The spirit of the draft is using the players at their best levels under a manager, not a lower level a couple of years later.

Fair Enough. But, I feel how long the peak was should also be considered. Anyway, even if you are counting that one month or so stint, Rivera wasn't that influential. Like I mentioned, he didn't feature for Milan in their big semi final victory against Borussia Mönchengladbach in their Cup Winners' Cup Semi Final.

 

[The Red Viper]

That's highly specific, though - the sort of specifics one doesn't necessarily have to focus on (as a voter). If one concludes that Rivera hadn't declined much from the player he was at his absolute peak in 1974, then that's arguably the key point here: He played for Trap in 1974 - whether he did so much or not so much isn't really relevant. Or so one could argue.

Rivera's dribbling, his passing, his technique, his playmaking ability - his main strengths as a player - were still there.

So, if he played only a couple of games where he did well, we are going to rate him like he was a season ago when he played regularly? Because we will be opening a pandora box then.

 

[Paolo Di Canio]

Voted for Viper, Gio's unfortunate to come up against one of the best teams of all time, the chemistry is just off the charts

 

[Chesterlestreet]

So, if he played only a couple of games where he did well, we are going to rate him like he was a season ago when he played regularly? Because we will be opening a pandora box then.

Pandora's box indeed - which is precisely what we talked about a while back, when the draft started.

My take on it then was this: You judge a player on his general level at the time. If he didn't play at all (because of injury), he's out. If he played conspicuously poorly, not being a good fit in the system (for instance), then this counts against him (Veron for Fergie, say). If he was clearly over the hill, this counts against him too (Blanc for Fergie). Otherwise, it's his general level at the time which counts. Whether he played two matches or two hundred matters less.

The voters will simply have to make an informed decision on this, though - it's up to them. No specific rule has been stated regarding this beyond "peak under manager X", which is and remains open to some interpretation.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

A DM would beat a back 5 in this case. With Messi fluttering around, it is definitely not the right time for Passarella to be doing his playmaking from there. Would have been better if the Back 4 stuck to it's job and had a proper DM who can drop back into defence shielding them. Far more effective.

 

[harms]

We're looking at a 30-year-old who captained Milan and, when Trap took over, was in the middle of leading Milan to two consecutive European finals. We've also got to weigh in the fact he played for Milan for another 5 years beyond that and won a Serie A title at the age of 35/36. As a technical player who let the ball do the work, he's not one to decline rapidly with age. Honestly I don't think it's quite Ballon D'Or Rivera, but it's close enough to make him a hell of a threat. Especially up against Busquets who has never faced a playmaker of that calibre before and doesn't excel off the ball.

You keep repeating that he was the man that lead Milan to two European finals - did he really? Genuine question, I'm not of how he played in those Cup Winners' Cups. And considering that he didn't even participate in Coppa Italia (which was Milan's way to those finals) after the 1971/72, I think, because of his problems with the referees.

I don't think that the spells like Trap's caretaking in 1973/74 should've been counted at all, but that's another problem. Look at his ratings in 73/74 and 75/76, when he worked with Trap - it's an interesting pattern, really. Certainly still had the ability, but underperformed - and in a season between Trap's he had his best "late" season bar the last one. And you shouldn't count his 1978/79 spell at all - he was immense there but there was no sign of this form earlier. Don't think that Busquets would have any problem facing with him.

Was surprised when you picked him and still is, when you have peak Rui Costa on the bench. Player of an inferior talent, but he is way better than Rivera in this draft for you. If you count his partnership with Batigol, even more so.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

A DM would beat a back 5 in this case. With Messi fluttering around, it is definitely not the right time for Passarella to be doing his playmaking from there. Would have been better if the Back 4 stuck to it's job and had a proper DM who can drop back into defence shielding them. Far more effective.

In this particular case the problem is that you'd then be left with two fullbacks who would be - mark my words - criticized for being overly offensive. It wouldn't necessarily be right - but it would be made an issue of.

Generally, though, I don't see the defense as NOT sticking to their jobs just because Passarella happens to be there in his best role all things said and done. Messi will be fluttering around regardless - unless you propose that this proper DM is tasked with marking Messi out of the game. Which creates problems of its own, not to mention that it's unrealistic given the players available.

Passarella was an extremely intelligent footballer. He didn't rush forward at every opportunity, spraying high-risk passes about with no regard to the quality of the opposition.

G/T's basic idea, as I understand it, is to set up conservatively, sitting back a bit - which is THE basic idea which in various forms has proven itself most effective against Pep's Barca (the latter being the blueprint here). And here, in this form, the idea is carried out by players of a MUCH higher quality than those who historically managed to best Pep's team.

 

[harms]

Another question, that's for @Gio or @Theon - I couldn't be arsed to look it up, but where did Reuter played in Trapattoni's Juventus? He is listed as a centrocampista centrale on a site that is rarely wrong - and they have specific roles for ala/centrocampista and terzino destro.

It shouldn't affect the game anyway, as he played wingback for Germany when he was managed by Trap in Juve, but it's just interesting for me.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

In this particular case the problem is that you'd then be left with two fullbacks who would be - mark my words - criticized for being overly offensive. It wouldn't necessarily be right - but it would be made an issue of.

Generally, though, I don't see the defense as NOT sticking to their jobs just because Passarella happens to be there in his best role all things said and done. Messi will be fluttering around regardless - unless you propose that this proper DM is tasked with marking Messi out of the game. Which creates problems of its own, not to mention that it's unrealistic given the players available.

Passarella was an extremely intelligent footballer. He didn't rush forward at every opportunity, spraying high-risk passes about with no regard to the quality of the opposition.

G/T's basic idea, as I understand it, is to set up conservatively, sitting back a bit - which is THE basic idea which in various forms has proven itself most effective against Pep's Barca (the latter being the blueprint here). And here, in this form, the idea is carried out by players of a MUCH higher quality than those who historically managed to best Pep's team.

It's not just the defensive line. And knowing the possession game that Pep plays, you don't want to be outnumbered in the midfield. No matter how good Matthaus and Tardelli are Busquets, Xavi & Iniesta will still have the bulk possession imo. A DM would free up Matthaus and Tardelli much more than Passarella there would, which is a very important component in this matchup.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Honestly don't recall that Juve season in detail!

But it surprises me that they have him down as a centrocampista centrale. He played as a side midfielder regularly enough - he may have been used as a side-ish midfielder in some kind of 4-3-3 or 4-3-1-2 (which Trap used at times): Conte in the middle, flanked by two, er, side-ish midfielders. In short - I dunno.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It's not just the defensive line. And knowing the possession game that Pep plays, you don't want to be outnumbered in the midfield. No matter how good Matthaus and Tardelli are Busquets, Xavi & Iniesta will still have the bulk possession imo. A DM would free up Matthaus and Tardelli much more than Passarella there would, which is a very important component in this matchup.

But he doesn't HAVE a DM who can do that! He's got Rui Costa on the bench. The DM available who could possibly do that job would be Tardelli - and he's already got his role to play in the set-up you propose.

 

[PedroMendez]

In this particular case the problem is that you'd then be left with two fullbacks who would be - mark my words - criticized for being overly offensive. It wouldn't necessarily be right - but it would be made an issue of.

Generally, though, I don't see the defense as NOT sticking to their jobs just because Passarella happens to be there in his best role all things said and done. Messi will be fluttering around regardless - unless you propose that this proper DM is tasked with marking Messi out of the game. Which creates problems of its own, not to mention that it's unrealistic given the players available.

Passarella was an extremely intelligent footballer. He didn't rush forward at every opportunity, spraying high-risk passes about with no regard to the quality of the opposition.

G/T's basic idea, as I understand it, is to set up conservatively, sitting back a bit - which is THE basic idea which in various forms has proven itself most effective against Pep's Barca (the latter being the blueprint here). And here, in this form, the idea is carried out by players of a MUCH higher quality than those who historically managed to best Pep's team.

its not only the back5 itself, but in combination with the rest of the team. In this setup Matthäus and Tardelli have to be extremely disciplined in holding their position, which isnt what they are best at. Furthermore Gio´s attacking three wont help them a hole lot. Against this lineup TRV has free reign in midfield. Gio´s defence would only get a grasp on his TRV´s attack in the last 20-25 yards. Thats just too close to his own goal to allow xavi/messi/iniesta to pick their passes without much pressure on them.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

its not only the back5 itself, but in combination with the rest of the team. In this setup Matthäus and Tardelli have to be extremely disciplined in holding their position, which isnt what they are best at. Furthermore Gio´s attacking three wont help them a hole lot. Against this lineup TRV has free reign in midfield. Gio´s defence would only get a grasp on his TRV´s attack in the last 20-25 yards. Thats just too close to his own goal to allow xavi/messi/iniesta to pick their passes without much pressure on them.

That's debatable. Are they better, in an allround sense, when they can move about more freely? Yes, absolutely. Are they capable of being disciplined as part of a game plan which aims to - basically - do what Maureen and others have done to best Pep's barca? Oh, yes. Clearly so.

If the argument is that you can't win unless you field an ideal formation for the players in question, that is a formation which would suit them best in an ideal setting, against an ideal opponent if you will - then, yes, Gio/Theon can't win this one. It's a faulty argument, though. The question - to put it in extreme terms - is whether their team can achieve what Maureen did. They don't have to display the players in their finest regalia - they have to win the match, this particular match.

 

[harms]

I feel that Gio is very unlucky to go against Pep in the very first round (who wouldn't be though), as Trap's interpretation of catenaccio is clearly the way to go against him. But TRV already has the best team, while Gio's still has a few flaws as he wasn't picking from the uncontested pool.

It's clear that we see Rivera's level differently, but Gio would've been much closer to getting my vote if Rui Costa was in starting eleven instead of him. Though TRV still has the best team in the first round.

 

[PedroMendez]

Gio isnt using a lineup that Jose would ever field in such a game. Its a tactical problem.