Managers who "Give Youth a Chance"

jojojo

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What do we mean by it? What constitutes giving them a chance. Why do some managers get credit for it and others don't?

We've all said it at different times. Some top managers are more willing than others to gamble on young players, some are more forgiving of the inevitable ups and downs of form or their naivety. But what does it mean?

Can you claim to be giving youth a chance when you buy them in after a good first season elsewhere? How many games do they have to play for it to be a "chance"? Is a debut and a couple of runs out in Cup matches, European group stage games, subs appearances a chance or is it only playing them regularly that counts.

The reason I'm curious (apart from there being no club football this weekend) is I see Ancelotti is always marked down as bad for youth development. But just from my crappy memory he regularly used Pato at Milan, Sturridge at Chelsea, Verratti at PSG, Jese (pre ACL injury) at Madrid. Mourinho has given loads of players debuts, even if he didn't give them much more.

So which managers really do develop young players and give them chances, and what do we really mean by it?
 
jojojo said:
What do we mean by it? What constitutes giving them a chance. Why do some managers get credit for it and others don't?

We've all said it at different times. Some top managers are more willing than others to gamble on young players, some are more forgiving of the inevitable ups and downs of form or their naivety. But what does it mean?

Can you claim to be giving youth a chance when you buy them in after a good first season elsewhere? How many games do they have to play for it to be a "chance"? Is a debut and a couple of runs out in Cup matches, European group stage games, subs appearances a chance or is it only playing them regularly that counts.

The reason I'm curious (apart from there being no club football this weekend) is I see Ancelotti is always marked down as bad for youth development. But just from my crappy memory he regularly used Pato at Milan, Sturridge at Chelsea, Verratti at PSG, Jese (pre ACL injury) at Madrid. Mourinho has given loads of players debuts, even if he didn't give them much more.

So which managers really do develop young players and give them chances, and what do we really mean by it?
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I couldn't see Jose Mourinho dealing well with a young Cristiano Ronaldo for example. For me peak Fergie was the epitome of what you'd want in a manager when dealing with youth... protective but ultimately trusting of younger players who still have much to learn but have great potential.

He would also never keep hold of a player if he couldn't guarantee them games and thus he valued their development as an individual and wasn't just selfish in terms of prioritising the needs of the club.

I'd hate to be a youngster under Mourinho, a bad run of games and he'll never trust you again. I don't like managers who refuse to pick a youngster until he is tactically spot on and mature.. for me when a player is slightly indisciplined and unpredictable.. he is very interesting to watch and with young attacking talents you certainly need a manager who isn't intent on stripping away a players creativity. They need to mature in their decision making yes, but if you are too harsh you can make that player lose confidence and potential. They become a decent team player but lose the ability to become a star.

For me someone like Oscar is a player who has suffered badly under Jose, he could have been something quite special under a Fergie.

On the flip side you have someone like Wenger, who for me mollycoddles players to an extent where they too fail to realise their potential. Youngsters need to feel the fear of never making it.. it makes them better. Additionally he has a rigid playing system which can take away the individuality in certain players games but credit must be given to him for giving young players a chance to make it and sticking with them even during bad periods.
 
Managers who rather sign talented young potentials than established season veterans and/or who is willing to take a risk on inconsistencies rather than depend on pros at crucial moments.
 
I think that's a difficult question with very difficult criteria to set. Some clubs can't afford to buy or keep more established players, and therefore, their managers could earn a reputation for developing young talent. It's enforced, not necessarily the approach the manager prefers.
Other clubs, often the ones at the top of the table, have managers who may not be willing to take the risk to play too many youngsters or too often as they could be a liability the competing teams could take advantage of.
While it seems that many fans have the desire to see youngsters breaking into the first team, they are quite often impatient when they don't perform consistently or commit a fatal error (losing points or stopping the run in a knock-off competition).
 
Frank de Boer uses a lot of young players at Ajax but he is forced into because his good players leave and foreign good players dont want to join Ajax/Eredivisie.

On the other side Louis van Gaal is known to use a lot of young players but in the premier league it isnt easy to use young players and still be able to compete for a top spot (unless you got a Beckham/Scholes/Giggs generation) so he is buying a lot of players and not using youth that much.

Its all about circumstances, a manager needs to win otherwise he'll lose his job so he will just use his best players to win the next match. Only unsackable managers like Fergie could look at the long term plans and play young players to develop.
 
RedMachine03 said:
Pochettino
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Yep. It's hard to argue otherwise when Spurs have the youngest squad in the Prem and you look at the number of Spurs academy/youth development players in the first team squad.
 
Most of the times depends on the philosophy or the circumstances of the club.Many players had debut with Marcelino,Paco Herrera,Valverde but i wonder if they really wanted or the football director forced them because there is no money.Simeone improved Koke,and is taking care of the development of Saul or Oliver,Vietto also had the debut with him in Argentina.
 
Coming back to the thread, I guess I see adding a player into that first 14/15 regular rotation as a serious commitment to that player. When it's a player who comes into that rotation at the expense of a more established player, or who survives negative reactions from the fans or press to stay in there, then I'd say the manager has gone "above and beyond" the normal.

It intrigues me though. I see LvG given credit, basically for giving debuts to Iniesta and Valdes, presumably because he also has more definite successes like Puyol and Xavi at Barca, and a great record with Ajax.

Whereas I don't hear much said in defence of Ancelotti, he doesn't even seem to get much credit for Verratti who joined PSG as a 19 year old from Seria B but who was an Ancelotti regular. Is it because of his time at AC Milan?

Why doesn't Mourinho get credit for trying to turn Balotelli into a player - he certainly gave him enough games. Is it because it didn't work out?

Or Pellegrini, whose years at Villareal and Malaga show success in bringing through young players. Is it because it's harder for him at City that means it's forgotten?

Maybe it's just hard to bring youngsters into top teams now and development (for most players) has to be done at the next layer down?
 
carvajal said:
Most of the times depends on the philosophy or the circumstances of the club.Many players had debut with Marcelino,Paco Herrera,Valverde but i wonder if they really wanted or the football director forced them because there is no money.Simeone improved Koke,and is taking care of the development of Saul or Oliver,Vietto also had the debut with him in Argentina.
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Simeone's a good one. He's certainly showing a lot of skill in bringing the younger players into contention in the first team and he's already had success by doing it.
 
jojojo said:
Coming back to the thread, I guess I see adding a player into that first 14/15 regular rotation as a serious commitment to that player. When it's a player who comes into that rotation at the expense of a more established player, or who survives negative reactions from the fans or press to stay in there, then I'd say the manager has gone "above and beyond" the normal.

It intrigues me though. I see LvG given credit, basically for giving debuts to Iniesta and Valdes, presumably because he also has more definite successes like Puyol and Xavi at Barca, and a great record with Ajax.

Whereas I don't hear much said in defence of Ancelotti, he doesn't even seem to get much credit for Verratti who joined PSG as a 19 year old from Seria B but who was an Ancelotti regular. Is it because of his time at AC Milan?

Why doesn't Mourinho get credit for trying to turn Balotelli into a player - he certainly gave him enough games. Is it because it didn't work out?

Or Pellegrini, whose years at Villareal and Malaga show success in bringing through young players. Is it because it's harder for him at City that means it's forgotten?

Maybe it's just hard to bring youngsters into top teams now and development (for most players) has to be done at the next layer down?
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I don't believe this at all. The Premier League is the worst league (from the top 6, including Eredivisie) when it comes to giving young players a chance. If you look at all of the other leagues young players are promoted throughout all tiers of teams from relegation candidates all the way to title contenders. I simply think with the Premier League that the amount of money we have now most chairmen want their managers to spend the cash to bring in quality to allow them to stay in the league. The owners lack of faith in their youth system means that young players have very little chance to make it into the first teams and are instead loaned to the lower leagues to get "experience".

I despair at the state of the Premier League to be honest. It's depressing at times.
 
When you're a short term manager like Mou, youth development is never a priority which would explain why he has never managed to develop a youth player. The only times he ever played a youth player was either due to injury or to send a veteran a message but his track record does not involve developing youth players
 
Giving a youth a chance, and being successful while at it = a damn good luck

If the youth u have are clearly not good enough, it will be fairly stupid to give them a "chance".
 
Julen Lopetegui at Porto seems an ideal choice for that club.
He's an ex Manager of successful Spanish national junior teams and is trying to get Porto back on top in Portugal by adding a few seasoned pros to steady/mentor their highly promising young players.
They have had a couple of quiet years by their standards but when obliged to keep selling your best players this will happen from time to time.
 
Pochettino, LvG, Guardiola, Wenger are all prime examples of this.
 
Galactic said:
Giving a youth a chance, and being successful while at it = a damn good luck

If the youth u have are clearly not good enough, it will be fairly stupid to give them a "chance".
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*Not all meant for you Galactic, just kept going on and on after I typed the first part*

Suppose it depends on the level that the club plays at, it's always going to be difficult to introduce youth players at clubs where you don't have to sell or have a team full of established internationals unless said youth player is a potential world class player and even then they aren't guaranteed a spot when a premier league team can buy a 22 year old La liga or Ligue 1 player with 100+ games under their belt for less than £15m. With the sacking culture for managers at the moment, I can't see why you would want to play an unproven player when your livelihood is at stake at all times and more likely than not you won't be around to reap the benefits of this player you have developed.

Seems more often than not in England (PL) that youth players only come through because of the most exceptional of injury crisis. The majority of our elite youth players probably don't even play consistent football until they have been released and proven themselves lower down the football pyramid and by the time anyone takes any notice they are 23/24 and no longer youngsters but still developing. Meanwhile whilst Aston Villa, Watford etc stockpile average Spaniards/Italians and so on, the team they bought that player from will be more likely to be replacing them with a younger player from their youth system or buying within their own league and therefore giving their own national team a chance of producing another star.

It's things like these why we have to see Vardy playing for England, other than the very few exceptions to the rule the only way youth will stand a chance is if they are a) world class b) playing for a team outside the PL or c) we bring in a cap on non English players.

As a United fan I love the benefits of the Premier League but it has absolutely destroyed England as a team which is very sad.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Julen Lopetegui at Porto seems an ideal choice for that club.
He's an ex Manager of successful Spanish national junior teams and is trying to get Porto back on top in Portugal by adding a few seasoned pros to steady/mentor their highly promising young players.
They have had a couple of quiet years by their standards but when obliged to keep selling your best players this will happen from time to time.
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I like Lopetegui but let's not forget he's a youth team coach in the first place so only natural he is at ease choosing young players to play. Let's check back when the results will matter and hardware is at stake - Pep used to say the biggest hurdle for most coaches in playing youth players or sticking to a philosophy is courage. I happen to think Lopetegui will ultimately prove to be similar but still too early to weigh in
 
duffer said:
Anyone?
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He hasn't established any of the youth players in the first team yet, but gave debuts to some promising talents. So far his record isn't impressive in that regard and I doubt it'll change if he leaves at the end of this season. I hope he stays a few more seasons and oversees the necessary rebuild completely (he clearly started it and we're in a great situation regarding the next 5 years). Kimmich and Gaudino could be regulars in midfield over the next few seasons, Coman might be a longterm replacement for Robben/Ribery. But that's all speculation and it doesn't make sense to praise him for 'giving youth a chance' at Bayern yet. Our squad is way too deep to actually do that and as always, it's during a rebuild at a big club when youth players actually get a chance. Very rarely do you see youth talents breaking into the first team during the peak years of a cycle.
 
For me, football has changed and giving youth a chance falls under:
Leagues with low attraction (Portugal, Holland, Belgium)
Leagues with little money (Spain, Germany, France, Italy)

Basically, what I am getting at is, any country other than England..

There is to much money floating around these days, clubs want instant success. Clubs like City, United etc cannot afford to play youngsters from the off.
And now, with the smaller teams in the league having money, they don't even need to loan these players anymore.

The only way this can be fixed is with a rule being implemented where English clubs have to field a certain amount of English players.
Typically, I don't want to see this as the quality of the league would drop, but give it 5 or so years, and it could potentially revitalise the league and the National team.
 
Igor Drefljak said:
The only way this can be fixed is with a rule being implemented where English clubs have to field a certain amount of English players.
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Is this possible with EC laws as they are?
If the rule is extended to include all EC nations it's hardly worth bothering with as so many non-EU nationals can get EU passports based on heritage.
 
For me giving youth a chance is not only giving a chance to youngsters from your academy but also buying young players and giving them a chance.

For example yes we spend 36m pounds but to give 19 years old kid a starting spot as a striker you need a lot of trust in youth.

For me the top managers who give youth a chance in this league are Pochettino, Koeman, Wenger, LVG. I must say I admire work Pochettino is doing at Spurs.

I don't follow other leagues so much so I don't want to pick managers from other leagues.
 
Igor Drefljak said:
For me, football has changed and giving youth a chance falls under:
Leagues with low attraction (Portugal, Holland, Belgium)
Leagues with little money (Spain, Germany, France, Italy)

Basically, what I am getting at is, any country other than England..

There is to much money floating around these days, clubs want instant success. Clubs like City, United etc cannot afford to play youngsters from the off.
And now, with the smaller teams in the league having money, they don't even need to loan these players anymore.

The only way this can be fixed is with a rule being implemented where English clubs have to field a certain amount of English players.
Typically, I don't want to see this as the quality of the league would drop, but give it 5 or so years, and it could potentially revitalise the league and the National team.
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The logic of that post doesn't make sense to me at all. Every club from every major league is facing the choice to give a slot to a youngster vs buying a more experienced player/"star" from a lesser club to fill the spot. I think part of the problem might be that English football (afaik) lacked DoFs for years, I think you need someone at the club who has a mid to long term view, because most coaches probably only plan with three year contracts or even just from season to season.
 
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