A forum is inevitably an open discussion, rather than you saying one was more than the other, you said that the Varane transfer wasn’t. I said it was and you continued to say it wasn’t. Simple as.
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
- Start date
You are free to open your own discussion but your own discussion is unrelated to what we were discussing so feel free to start a new one instead of replying.
You were the one who told me that there is degree of complexity in it, if it’s complex then it’s not straightforward. And in order to call it straightforward you compared it to Sancho’s saga (below post) which no one actually compare it to Sancho. The discussion is comparing it to Cavani. As soon as you mentioned Sancho, I started asking you how is Varane more straightforward in comparison to Cavani because I knew you were clueless about the original discussion.
We were looking to buy a defender, settled on Varane early, Madrid were willing to sell at a reasonable price, and the player was interested. Everyone's on the same page, so all you have to do is hammer out the details. That's about as straightforward as you're going to get.
Signing Cavani wasn't straightforward because he was signed as an emergency option when we couldn't get our primary target. You're right that signing Cavani, once we'd settled on him, was probably a lot easier than signing Varane, the complexity comes from the fact that we were working on another deal that, if completed, would have negated our need for him.
So you are telling me that Cavani was signed late as emergency option not because we wanted to lower his demand then?
Two things can be true at the same time
Interesting take by Howson @ 14.40 onwards:
If what we did to Cavani‘s transfer was good to you so why can’t we sign Varane in the last of the week for purpose to lower Real Madrid‘s demand?
Could be both. Could be that the club was interested in him regardless of Sancho, but that his wage demands were too high for what was supposed to be a squad option, and the club felt that if we managed to land Sancho, this would negate the need for him anyway. When we didn't land Sancho, the need was still there, and since it was late in the window, Cavani would be more willing to reduce his wage demands when faced with the prospect of not finding a club, or having to settle for both lower wages and signing for a smaller team.
Dortmund set deadline much earlier and if we were competent last year in transfer, we would have anticipated that the Sancho‘s transfer was impossible but we didn’t and still persistent to go for it.
If we actually anticipated this, we would sign Cavani earlier, he would be fit enough, and wouldn’t miss our beginning matches of the season.
If we only care about money not football this summer, we wouldn’t sign Varane earlier but instead we would do the similar approach that we did on Cavani by wait final of the week of the transfer to lower the demand. We did it as well on Maguire except in 2019 transfer window closed before the season started so he didn’t miss our first match.
No I read the original discussion I just took issue with you saying Varane wasn’t straightforward. I used Sancho as a different example that wasn’t signing a player on a free.
Yes I said there’s a degree of complexity but that was to highlight you being hampered by semantics. Every transfer is complex to the leyman, so by your logic you could never say any transfer was straightforward (yet you’re trying to argue Cavani was more so than another which logically is inconsistent) - however in relation to the majority of transfers Varane was straightforward. We have a very well respected publication in The Athletic reporting that even those who deal with transfers at United were surprised at how simple and quick the deal was. As they say Judge was pretty much convinced the transfer wasn’t going to happen and when we offered £34 million he was shocked they said yes, as we were even willing to go higher if needed. By what is reported we offered the lower end of what we were willing to pay, therefore waiting till the end of the window wouldn’t have mattered if we actually got a fee we were not expecting to be successful with in the first place.
Again, the original discussion is comparing Varane and Cavani transfer. Poster said Varane was straightforward but CavanI wasn’t.
The way how I said Varane wasn’t straightforward in comparison to Cavani is the same with how you said Varane was straightforward in comparison to Sancho. We use a measurement to measure why transfer was straightforward or not straightforward.
Have you ever feel when you study for a test so hard because you expect a difficulty but during the test day you surprised how easy it was because you prepared it, while people who don’t prepare it well find it difficulty? If you plan or prepare it well, it becomes more straightforward than what the initial expected. This is common. Without comparison, Varane’s transfer is not straightforward because it requires lot of process, stages, and plans. We executed the plan properly well done to turn this straightforward.
There you go you just answered your own question:
‘Explain why Varane was a straightforward transfer?’
You do realise that question was to reply poster who said varane was straightforward and Cavani wasn’t right? You didn’t read the original discussion you liar!
So why Cavani is not then?
Isn't that same for every transfer for a player under contract though? Why would Varane's transfer have been more complex (i e., less straightforward) than your average contract of a player that's still under contract?
Oh no I did read it, but the way you phrased your question inferred that Varane wasn’t a straightforward transfer, so fine I’ll correct your question then:
‘Explain why Varane was a MORE straightforward transfer’
Interesting take but not sure if I believe that. He says might be for PR but why would Woodward want to do that, why would he want to give the credit to others when he has such a bad reputation and these deals could have improved his image.
For now I would go with reputed Journalists.
I don't know why are you wasting my time mate but if you actually read it, you can see it clearly why I said the words in my question since the poster said the exact same words about it. It's not very hard to admit that you never read the original discussion before you replied to me.
It should the same but the poster believed it's different situation that Varane is straightforward while Cavani is not (see picture).
I'm only making a point if anything Varane's transfer should be considered more complex than Cavani since he's not free agent.
1, because it’s fun. And 2, yeh you asked why Varane was a straightforward transfer and I originally answered how it was a straightforward transfer - you then said ‘oh no no all transfers are complex’.I don't know why are you wasting my time mate but if you actually read it, you can see it clearly why I said the words in my question since the poster said the exact same words about it. It's not very hard to admit that you never read the original discussion before you replied to me.
Basically Varane was a straightforward run of the mill transfer between two clubs and Cavani was picking a player up on a free after they had been shopped around and finally lowered their wage demands. Frankly the poster was saying to you that it was weird to compare to wildly different situations. To be honest they don’t even seem to be making a comparison that one was easier than the other, just that they were very very different and therefore not relevant to compare.
I didn't ask you the question though. I originally asked a poster named roseguy64. You should stop sticking your butt to someone else discussion if you are clueless what the question was referring to.
Frankly the point of the comparison is about why can’t we sign Varane in the last of the week for purpose to lower Real Madrid‘s demand just like we did it on Cavani. Once again, you didn't read the original discussion at all.
And there we go, two wildly different situations. One was a transfer where we were surprised they accepted an offer we thought we were lowballing them with and the other was a player who lowered his wage demands as he almost went into the new season without a club. Bish bash bosh there’s your answer.I didn't ask you the question though. I originally asked a poster named roseguy64. You should stop sticking your butt to someone else discussion if you are clueless what the question was referring to.
Frankly the point of the comparison is about why can’t we sign Varane in the last of the week for purpose to lower Real Madrid‘s demand just like we did it on Cavani. Once again, you didn't read the original discussion at all.
You still don't get it. The main argument is not about we lowering the demand or lowballing them but it's about how we approach it.
Have you been living under the rock? It's not the first time we chose that Cavani's approach by wait for last week or two of the window for purpose to lower their demand. We used this approach on Maguire. We even used it on Sancho last season. And if we use the original poster's point about lowering Cavani's demand then it's obviously we were attempting the same method. That's very less efficient way to do business.
However, now we are doing it early especially on Sancho & Varane, we are not trying to wait until near the final of the window so player/agent/club lower their demand.
But then you're not talking about the Varane transfer in particular but about every transfer in general. Not very interesting. I'm with @macheda14 on this one.It should the same but the poster believed it's different situation that Varane is straightforward while Cavani is not (see picture).
I'm only making a point if anything Varane's transfer should be considered more complex than Cavani since he's not free agent.
Also, more generally, I strongly oppose the notion that you can tell posters what discussions they should or shouldn't get involved in. I would suggest communicating by PM if that's how you like your discussions, or otherwise a simple post saying that you're not interested in this aspect of the conversation and leaving it at that.
Remember, it's not Varane's transfer thread or United sign Varane's thread. I was discussing about the difference between when we have Murtough as our DoF and when we didn't have him as our DoF, the thread title is clear to see. Varane's and Cavani's case are just one of the many examples used in this discussion.
Bloody hell what happened to this thread? Another UNITED ACADEMY endless back and forth?
This pretty much.
Because Cavani was a free agent who had not been able to agree deals with multiple clubs. We hashed it out with Real Madrid and got them to lower their demands earlier/compromised. No need to delay if you've managed to get to a good place with the other club.
There is no need for these condescending jibes. Please cut them out - the forum is meant to be a place for enjoyable and stimulating discussion not constant aggressive point-scoring and aggressive put-downs.
I thought he likes it since he told me it’s fun.
To be fair I'll bet there are quite a few people who wouldn't mind spending a lot of their lives under Dwayne Johnson.
The same with Real Madrid’s situation. Real Madrid had not been able to agree contract deal with Varane. This makes Both Cavani and Real Madrid have limited choice to demand high to United, thus both are not in different situation right?
Yes I understand we started our approach with Real Madrid earlier and we got them to lower it so no need to delay, that’s not rocket science. The same logic can be applied on Cavani, we could still have a chance to lower his demand if we approach him 3 weeks before the season started, right?
But my question is not why we didn’t delay it, my question is why didn’t we start the discussion with Real Madrid in the final week or two weeks of the window?
Last edited:
Ok I apologies.
Wtf happened to this thread?
Was going to post this. Interesting if true
Two grannies going at it with handbags
Makes sense considering The Athletic article I saw about the Varane transfer where Woodward was the one in contact with Jose Angel Sanchez to hammer out the deal this week. Luckhurst also mentioned Woodward being involved too I think. Sensible though considering the mess that was Woodward's first summer window where it looked like he learned nothing from Gill.
It's normal for Woodward to be in contact with Jose Angel Sanchez due to both men being the CEO's of the clubs. Woodward was also in contact with Watzke for the Sancho deal which was reported on, which again is normal due to the positions they hold at the club. Michael Zorc is the Sporting director at Dortmund and it's he and the like of Sebastian Kehl who Murtough and Fletcher were likely in contact with.
Transfer window podcast: Duncan Castles says the speed of United's incomings is far greater than it has been in recent seasons.
And he credits both Murtough and former midfielder Fletcher for being influential in getting deals done.
"You look at what they're doing in the transfer market, there is a significant difference this summer in the speed of which they're operating," Castles said on the Transfer Window podcast.
"I think a lot of that comes down to the change in structure at the club, with John Murtough and Darren Fletcher handed roles where they do a lot of the day-to-day work in preparing deals and getting deals in place before final negotiations are done elsewhere and before the Glazers sign off on them.
Mark Ogden: "Murtough and Fletcher have taken much of the heavy lifting away from Woodward"
https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-...-deals?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true
James Ducker: "Matt Judge, United’s director of football negotiations, drove the process with a keen, sharp eye and a presentation to the Varane camp by football director John Murtough and technical director Darren Fletcher about the culture and philosophy of the club, their plans and what they could offer the player was said to be persuasive and impressive".
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...utd-snared-raphael-varane-decade-making/?s=09
And he credits both Murtough and former midfielder Fletcher for being influential in getting deals done.
"You look at what they're doing in the transfer market, there is a significant difference this summer in the speed of which they're operating," Castles said on the Transfer Window podcast.
"I think a lot of that comes down to the change in structure at the club, with John Murtough and Darren Fletcher handed roles where they do a lot of the day-to-day work in preparing deals and getting deals in place before final negotiations are done elsewhere and before the Glazers sign off on them.
Mark Ogden: "Murtough and Fletcher have taken much of the heavy lifting away from Woodward"
https://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-...-deals?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true
James Ducker: "Matt Judge, United’s director of football negotiations, drove the process with a keen, sharp eye and a presentation to the Varane camp by football director John Murtough and technical director Darren Fletcher about the culture and philosophy of the club, their plans and what they could offer the player was said to be persuasive and impressive".
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...utd-snared-raphael-varane-decade-making/?s=09