Pretty sure Neville said he doesn't even speak to anyone at United these days, not sure where he's getting his info from.
Manchester United's Chief Scout and Head of Global Scouting have left the club
- Thread starter L1nk
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Ideal World.
Now come back to the real world.
John Murtough will not relinquish power, which he has gotten just the other day.
For Ralf to have any permanent role, Anorld must create the position and direct Murtough and Ralf of this decision.
But John Murtough himself he will never relinquish power
I mentioned Adnan because he shared those reports many times. IIRC it is from Mitten.
Matt Judge next.
She's entertaining and all. But we shouldn't be going down the moneyball route. It doesn't work in a continuous, midfield focussed game like football.
Maybe it's okay in NFL (where each play is separated from the next) or baseball (where each pitch is its own thing) or even basketball (where there are a hundred attacks each match with scoring going back and forth).
Football, by comparison, is a game of attrition where games are decided on one or two moments every 90 minutes. You can't reliably compare one team to another, or one league to another. If United start to rely on analytics, there's a huge risk of us buying/missing out on players based on numbers that wouldn't be repeated in the our own team.
Phil?
Judgement day has come
Long live Rangnick.
Peggy obvs “ NOW GET OUTTA MY CLUB!”
Well, considering how shite out scouting have been the last decade this sounds like good news to me
And yet teams like Liverpool and Brentford's recruitment success has been analytics-driven?
No wonder why we are in this situation. Thanks.
Who is Maram?
There is at least two flaws in that argument first analytics don't have to be isolated from tapes, you don't rely on analytics but support your subjective observations with objective data. And secondly 100% of scouting and recruitment assumes that a player is going to be able to repeat what he is doing for a different team in a different environment, it's not a particularity of analytics, if anything a good use of analytics could allow you to spot why a player may not be able to repeat what he is doing.
It's fairly natural recruitment would be overhauled at this stage. By bringing in Ralf and seemingly ETH, and the way they've faffed around with technical positions it was all leading to the fact that they're kind of acknowledging years of mistakes. It's hard not to when you see what is right before your eyes at the moment. I don't think Ralf and ETH would be content with not having people they know and respect operating in these capacities.
But personally I'm not going to disparage the guys on the way out and make out like it's all their fault. Who knows where the responsibility lies for certain failed signings. As a scout you can only report what you find, give input, you're not the chief. Maybe some of their reports were overly optimistic on some signings, but you don't know the exact reccomendation.
But personally I'm not going to disparage the guys on the way out and make out like it's all their fault. Who knows where the responsibility lies for certain failed signings. As a scout you can only report what you find, give input, you're not the chief. Maybe some of their reports were overly optimistic on some signings, but you don't know the exact reccomendation.
Agreed, Its hard to know who actually made decisions, seems for example Mou largely followed the recommendations of agents and Ole/ Phelan overruled the recruitment team to bring in the likes of AWB and Maguire. But our recruitment for last decade has been abysmal in any case.
Data analyst at Athletic.
Quite inexperienced but put herself out on channels like Stretford Paddock to highlight tactics and I think Athletic picked her up from there(?)
And Brighton, City's likely as well.
Right, thanks.
Pogba and the scouting team gone. Charm offensive set to overdrive today.
What a load of tosh. Fired for not having a report on Nkunku - a bridge too far.
This guy is a moron.
Interesting, did they leave or get fired.
Also did they even do a good job to begin with?
Also did they even do a good job to begin with?
Would probably do a better job than the midfield last night to be fair!
The point of my post was that people on here have short memories or they only look for things that fulfil the agendas they currently have against the club.
The same people who are bemoaning Jim Lawlor and our scouting department are quite probably the same group that celebrated when we signed Varane, yet he has been an abject failure so far and one of the big names mentioned in the piece as to reason for these changes. Was that Lawlors fault?
The same people claiming our scouts do nothing, yet Jim Lawlor was instrumental in picking up players like Vidic, the twins, wanted Falcao at United before he went to Atletico, wanted Kane before he became a megastar, wanted Lozano (a RW) before he went to PSV (5 years ago not 10+!).
He done more good than any detriment to this club and usually someone who has been in and around a club for as long as he has at United, deserves respect rather than ridicule and loathing from supposed supporters.
No clue mate
I just don't let any opportunity to have a go at Gary pass me by
He wasn’t suggesting a strong correlation. It’s completely plausible that Rangnick is exposing some of the cracks we’ve papered over for far too long and communicating this to the board
I don't believe that's what he's saying at all, moreso Rangnick being exposed to the scouting problems at the club has likely led to him highlighting those issues to Murtough
He's implying they're related, however loosely, which is nonsense.
People are conflating scouting and recruitment.
What is far more likely, is we are moving to a far more data driven, scouting approach and these two are behind the times.
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They have decided to leave, not been sacked. The main issue will be dissatification with the DoF.
So did Gary speak about this previously or is he just running interference now?
If there's any chance that both Ralf and Paul Mitchell are the ones who are going to replace Marcel Bout and Jim Lawlor, IMO it will be a proper appointment.
It would be nice if one of them was a babble mouth so we can find out the going ons in terms of signings. I want find out where in the rb list did someone AWB rank.
Yeah sure Gary, those benevolent dictators, the Glazers have been paying the chief scout handsome compensation without doing any work for 10 years now.
Like Liverpool?
I'm pretty sure he was only an analyst back then so I doubt he was "Instrumental" in those signings at all.
I can't really speak on the other claims because I haven't heard them but Falcao at Porto was hardly some unknown quantity. And "Kane before he became a megastar" is a bit open ended no? There's no way he thought he should be signed based on his loans in the Championship so that he must have recommend after his breakthrough season. Which means he thought he wasn't a "one season wonder", not exactly ground breaking stuff considering half of the population of the country probably agreed with him.
He was good, in his role, 10 years ago. He was made chief scout in 2014 and was given a place on the recruitment committee. Since 2014 the recruitment has been a joke and he's clearly been an important part of that, although I would agree he's not entirely to blame.
This should be a given anyway!
Small independent setup.
Really, really good read
It's quite possible they've both left knowing their futures were pretty much over.
Old methods, incompatible with expected new regime, probably had a lot of recommendations vetoed by Mr Disneyland over the years.
The data-led approach is the way forward for any organisation looking to make efficiencies and find ways to make the core aspect of their business improve. Why we're 5-10 years behind the trend is beyond me and underlines my view that the scouting network became so redundant because a finance public school boy was playing football manager in real life.
No other club in the Europe would have signed Zlatan, Ronaldo, Sanchez and Cavani at the stages of their career we got them at (Sanchez by age probably the exception - but was visibly waning at Arsenal anyway). And they're not the kind of players that come from scouting recommendations!
Old methods, incompatible with expected new regime, probably had a lot of recommendations vetoed by Mr Disneyland over the years.
The data-led approach is the way forward for any organisation looking to make efficiencies and find ways to make the core aspect of their business improve. Why we're 5-10 years behind the trend is beyond me and underlines my view that the scouting network became so redundant because a finance public school boy was playing football manager in real life.
No other club in the Europe would have signed Zlatan, Ronaldo, Sanchez and Cavani at the stages of their career we got them at (Sanchez by age probably the exception - but was visibly waning at Arsenal anyway). And they're not the kind of players that come from scouting recommendations!
Thank feck.
Our scouts are useless.
Our scouts are useless.
Bout was a match analyst/assistant under both LVG and Jupp Heynckes, and from what I've read, Jupp Heynckes didn't want him to leave when LVG called, whilst he (LVG) was in his second stint as the head coach of the Dutch NT.
And as @JPRouve mentioned earlier, i've provided evidence from various different journalists about the managers post Fergie signing players who the club's own recruitment staff had vetoed as not being good enough.. And the most high profile of the lot was Harry Maguire due to the ridiculous price tag. And according to Daniel Taylor, Maguire wasn't deemed any better than the CBs already at the club in a piece from 2018. That then caused Mourinho to go into self sabotage mode and he was telling the press that he was a mere head coach now and not a manager. But Woodward still went ahead and signed Maguire for Ole and Phelan. And we have to remember that it was under Phelan that Maguire became a mainstay at EPL level and captain. And that was due to Phelan being the first team manager at Hull City.
And tbh with you I don't see this as a big deal because like I've said in the past, it's all about aligning recruitment towards the head coach's methods. But unfortunately for us we've had managers who we've allowed far too much control to, where they've signed players on the back of their personal recruitment staff. And when you do that in the present day, you have failed to align recruitment, and short term gains won't make up for long-term pains. So i'm fully expecting more than capable replacements to come in, who in conjunction with a DoF/head coach model will see us recruit to a guiding principle.
And as far as development goes in the game, I've never seen development on the football side as good as what the French have done at developing talent at academy level, and the German development when it comes to structuring clubs from the recruitment to data analytics etc. And what we have in common with them is that we've adopted their methods in England, where according to Dan Ashworth and numerous others, we improved our youth development by copying the French and the Clairefontaine approach, which saw us win the u17/u20 world cups. And according to the same people, we also adopt the German DoF model and combine it with the French approach to developing talent.
Sorry for digressing slightly, but I thought i'd share my thoughts on development, which is ultimately what the goal is and what we hope will lead to a challenge on all-fronts in the future.