Marcotti | Zlatan + Mourinho = Win At All Costs, Straight Away

[FC Ronaldo]

A very good article by Gab Marcotti that I thought was worth a share.

Its primary focus is on Zlatan naturally but it also delivers an interesting sub plot on club philosophy and our statement with Ibrahimovic's (impending) and Mourinho's arrivals as to how we're focusing on short term success.

TL;DR
Zlatan's most crude season (style wise) was with Mou at Inter. Direct & basic football.
Rashford, Martial and youngsters aren't the primary concern
Win at all costs to massage sponsors and club status

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[Snowjoe]

That stat in that article is ridiculous. 16 seasons, 13 titles and top scorer for the team in 12 of those.

 

[RedStarUnited]

If he wins us the league next season, most people wont care how it was done.

 

[Striker10]

Not mentioned in the article but being close to those two agents as well puts us in a position of strength for short/long term gains. Ibrahimovic will inspire many of the lads so hopefully he gives them good advice.

 

[korenmanutd]

That stat in that article is ridiculous. 16 seasons, 13 titles and top scorer for the team in 12 of those.

That's an amazing stat, and goes to show to all those who question this transfer. Yes he's a year older, in a better league but he is still one of the best out there. Couple that with Mourinho, and we really have something special brewing here. Here's to next season!

 

[Varun]

That stat in that article is ridiculous. 16 seasons, 13 titles and top scorer for the team in 12 of those.

That's bloody brilliant.

 

[Ish]

The landscape of football has changed. There's so much money and competition around that you're can't spend too long a time in transition or you'll be left behind, permanently. So yeah, we've probably abandoned some "longer" term objectives, as LVG's tenure went to shit.

The very best teams seem to all be spending money to remain at that level. Even the much lauded Barca/Bayern, have felt the pressure of replacing some of their ageing stars by going into the market and buying expensive young potential or the ready made products. Even if it is at the expense of some of their own youths.

It's not a bad thing and it's not like those teams aren't giving any chances to youth either. It's just the pressure to remain competitive and on top, is as great as it's ever been.

 

[devilish]

Mou is not reinventing the wheel. Ibra is the typical experienced striker whose brought on cheap and who will instill experience to the younger crop. I can think of two players (Larsson and Teddy) who had done that already. Mkhitaryan is 27 so he's hardly old and at 28m something he's a steal. Bailly is in his early 20s

 

[JPRouve]

The landscape of football has changed. There's so much money and competition around that you're can't spend too long a time in transition or you'll be left behind, permanently. So yeah, we've probably abandoned some "longer" term objectives, as LVG's tenure went to shit.

The very best teams seem to all be spending money to remain at that level. Even the much lauded Barca/Bayern, have felt the pressure of replacing some of their ageing stars by going into the market and buying expensive young potential or the ready made products. Even if it is at the expense of some of their own youths.

It's not a bad thing and it's not like those teams aren't giving any chances to youth either. It's just the pressure to remain competitive and on top, is as great as it's ever been.

The landscape hasn't really changed, you were never able to spend too long a time in transition. It's the younger fans who have an aversion for short term success as if it wasn't possible to plan for the short and long term at the same time.

 

[Ish]

The landscape hasn't really changed, you were never able to spend too long a time in transition. It's the younger fans who have an aversion for short term success as if it wasn't possible to plan for the short and long term at the same time.

I think what I envisaged more than anything when I said that was that the competition has become more intense.

Back in the '90's, there'd be maybe 1, at a stretch 2, challenger(s) to our league title each season. A decade later on it became 2-3 or so, with Abramovich's money entering the league.

Now with more foreign ownership and more money flowing into the league, it seems nigh on impossible to call the top 4. So i think in that sense, it has become a bit more difficult to go through a transition and still come out on top.

I obviously agree with your point though - signing Zlatan is short term, but it doesn't mean we're not planning medium/long term at the same time as well. (Rashford, TFM etc.).

Last year LvG signed a 31 year old Schweinsteiger (if he wasn't older) as well.

I should have probably worded my initial statement better than just saying "we've abandoned some longer term objectives".

 

[VP89]

A very good article by Gab Marcotti that I thought was worth a share.

Its primary focus is on Zlatan naturally but it also delivers an interesting sub plot on club philosophy and our statement with Ibrahimovic's (impending) and Mourinho's arrivals as to how we're focusing on short term success.

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Really? I wonder if we'd have gone for Zlatan if he had a few years left on his contract with PSG. He's a free transfer and a no brainer, I'm not sure that suddenly suggests we are going for short term success.

Yes, its vital to hit the ground running and Mourinho will want to deliver early. But signing Zlatan on a free is being opportunist, not a confirmation that we are after short term success.

 

[JPRouve]

I think what I envisaged more than anything when I said that was that the competition has become more intense.

Back in the '90's, there'd be maybe 1, at a stretch 2, challenger(s) to our league title each season. A decade later on it became 2-3 or so, with Abramovich's money entering the league.

Now with more foreign ownership and more money flowing into the league, it seems nigh on impossible to call the top 4. So i think in that sense, it has become a bit more difficult to go through a transition and still come out on top.

I obviously agree with your point though - signing Zlatan is short term, but it doesn't mean we're not planning medium/long term at the same time as well. (Rashford, TFM etc.).

Last year LvG signed a 31 year old Schweinsteiger (if he wasn't older) as well.

I should have probably worded my initial statement better than just saying "we've abandoned some longer term objectives".

My bad, in that sense you are right. But even then, the financial dominance is more forgiving nowadays, for example United created an empire that allows them to really underperform on the field but still dominate the market when it comes to purchasing players, which kind of give them more time than in the past.

 

[Ish]

My bad, in that sense you are right. But even then, the financial dominance is more forgiving nowadays, for example United created an empire that allows them to really underperform on the field but still dominate the market when it comes to purchasing players, which kind of give them more time than in the past.

Yeah that's right. We do have more leeway than most clubs, agreed. Because in the end, we can sort of just buy ourselves of the (sort of) mess we've created post SAF.

Though there are a lot of continental competition for the "elite" players. The very best, or most talented, seem to be jumping at the chances to join Barca/Bayern/Madrid and even moneybags, PSG. But I suppose on the flip side, you don't have the Serie A financial muscle to contend with, as it was in the 90's.

But either way, I think the amount of money floating around in football is making it very crucial to stay ahead. I mean, clubs are rejecting 30m pound offers for Deeney . This is without even considering the added pressure of our sponsors.

 

[khoazany]

I don't get how signing Zlatan will have any negative impact in the "long term" tbh.At the end of last season we have only Rashford as the only option up front since there's almost nobody capable to replace Martial on the left.Now that Rooney is a midfielder full-time it would make the same number of striking options as last year.Even if let's say Wilson impresses Mourinho on pre-season there is easily place in the squad to afford him.

 

[devilish]

The trouble with principles and ideologies are that they tend to be too rigid for one to succeed in long term. Hence why philosophy lost his job. Returning on SAF's Manchester United, we did tend to go for young talent as opposed to proven ones. However that doesn't mean we didn't occasionally went for proven talent too. Teddy, Larsson, Goram, RVP, VDS, Blanc, VDG were all SAF's signings. Some were mere reserves while others turned out to be important first teamers.

I see little difference between Ibra's signing and Teddy or Di Canio's signing/near signing. We're bringing in an experienced head, who will instill experience to the side and whose skillset is different to what we currently have

 

[SwansonsTache]

I think a highly undervalued part of the Zlatan transfer is the importance of him weathering the storm and scrutiny that comes with playing for Manchester United and leading our line. Asking Martial and Rashford to do that at this stage of their career and in their age wouldn't be fair.

I hardly think that even the English tabloids are able to faze Zlatan. Also we have collectively on this forum been screaming out for less nice guys and some more swagger for years now, well, here it is.

Remember that guy carrying Herrera off the pitch? Good luck doing that with the Zlat watching.

 

[JPRouve]

One thing that Ibrahimovic brings is hardworking and professionalism, Ibrahimovic isn't a mentor at least he hasn't been one but he acts and people follow. At PSG he used to be the first at the training ground and the last to leave when other players saw that, they did the same. He creates good standards.

 

[devilish]

One thing that Ibrahimovic brings is hardworking and professionalism, Ibrahimovic isn't a mentor at least he hasn't been one but he acts and people follow. At PSG he used to be the first at the training ground and the last to leave when other players saw that, they did the same. He creates good standards.

I think that Ibra's individuality and 'I don't give a feck' attitude is overplayed. When Balotelli was passing from a bad patch in England he was the one who went out the ranks and told people to be patient to him and to show him some love. He could have easily not give a damn but he didn't.

 

[JPRouve]

I think that Ibra's individuality and 'I don't give a feck' attitude is overplayed. When Balotelli was passing from a bad patch in England he was the one who went out the ranks and told people to be patient to him and to show him some love. He could have easily not give a damn but he didn't.

He is a team player. Did I say the opposite?

 

[gerdm07]

I very much care how we win. I want to be entertained and compete for titles.

 

[Random Task]

There is no question that Ibrahimovic, like Mourinho, makes United a better team. He has spent 16 full seasons as a professional footballer -- he has won the league title in 13 of those. In 12 of them, he was his team's leading scorer, which rather puts into context the accusation that his trophy cabinet is full to bursting because he only plays for the very best teams. While it's true that he tends to play for dominant clubs, it's equally true that he tends to dominate those clubs.

How's that for consistency. Can't wait to see what he brings to United.

 

[devilish]

He is a team player. Did I say the opposite?

Ibra wasn't Balotelli's team mate at the time. All I am saying is that he may sound like an individualistic cnut who cares only about himself but he's not like that. He does take players under his wing irrespective on whether he's ready to admit that or not

 

[Someone]

I'm not hugely optimistic about ibra, i don't think he's going to take the league by a storm, but i still think it's a no brainer.

This team is fairly young and lacks winners and more importantly lacks characters, in that sense his mere presence should be great for everyone involved. Let's not forget that this is a free transfer after all.

Things could only go sour if he falls out with mourinho, which i'd say highly unlikely.

 

[sunama]

That stat in that article is ridiculous. 16 seasons, 13 titles and top scorer for the team in 12 of those.

That is insane!!!

 

[mu77]

cantona II for the youngsters.

 

[SirAF]

The trouble with principles and ideologies are that they tend to be too rigid for one to succeed in long term. Hence why philosophy lost his job. Returning on SAF's Manchester United, we did tend to go for young talent as opposed to proven ones. However that doesn't mean we didn't occasionally went for proven talent too. Teddy, Larsson, Goram, RVP, VDS, Blanc, VDG were all SAF's signings. Some were mere reserves while others turned out to be important first teamers.

I see little difference between Ibra's signing and Teddy or Di Canio's signing/near signing. We're bringing in an experienced head, who will instill experience to the side and whose skillset is different to what we currently have

Two players for the price of one - great business that.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

There is no question that Ibrahimovic, like Mourinho, makes United a better team. He has spent 16 full seasons as a professional footballer -- he has won the league title in 13 of those. In 12 of them, he was his team's leading scorer, which rather puts into context the accusation that his trophy cabinet is full to bursting because he only plays for the very best teams. While it's true that he tends to play for dominant clubs, it's equally true that he tends to dominate those clubs.

How's that for consistency. Can't wait to see what he brings to United.

Less probably. For almost all of those 16 seasons I've been one of his biggest fans, but I couldn't help noticing that the years are starting to count. He does look a lot more stiff lately.

 

[TwoSheds]

Less probably. For almost all of those 16 seasons I've been one of his biggest fans, but I couldn't help noticing that the years are starting to count. He does look a lot more stiff lately.

He's just come off his best ever season. Poor Euros but it's hardly surprising if he's tired at his age after playing 51 club games last year.

 

[Americano]

If anything, bringing in Zlatan shows that we are planning for the future. An older player on a short deal will leave plenty of playing time for our other, younger forwards now and going forward. He takes some of the pressure off Rashford to deliver, while still leaving him room to step up and establish himself as the future.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

He's just come off his best ever season. Poor Euros but it's hardly surprising if he's tired at his age after playing 51 club games last year.

I don't think his euro's were poor actually, disappointing and quite unlucky, but they were a decent player short of beeing able to really use his strengths. It's just that there was a stiffness in his movement that makes me wonder whether he could still take on defenders with the ball at his feet. He will still be very usefull without that, but it won't be the same old Zlatan.

Of course a 34 old player can never have a lesser game or go through a time of poor form without beeing called too old, but in case of stiffness in body movent it's highly likely that age is the cause and it won't go away.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I'm interested to heat how many goals people think he will get in the EPL? I think if fit he will lead our line so what would be considered a success?

Surely he has to hit at least 20?

 

[Giant Midget]

40 goals next season as we win the title by 12 points.

 

[The red panther]

I'm interested to heat how many goals people think he will get in the EPL? I think if fit he will lead our line so what would be considered a success?

Surely he has to hit at least 20?

All depends on how well the team gells together and how many games he can play for us.

If all things work out, midfield, wingers, tactics an the lot
If he stays fit all season
An he plays most games

I think he can get like 20-25 goals in the EPL (total number will be higher with Cup games and european games etc could be up to 30 or more I reckon)