Martial, media and fan bias. 50 million down the drain

[FrantikChicken]

Martial hasn’t completed 90mins for United in 3 years.

The reason he embodies everything that is wrong at the club is not through direct fault of his own. He’s still here, on high wages, getting game time, when he hasn’t been fit for purpose for multiple seasons. The only other striking option we have is a Danish kid with no real top level experience!

Unfortunately for Martial, his circumstances and position make it very easy and obvious to point out to the ownership’s failings in running this club.

 

[Loon]

He’ll finally be replaced in January. I think this will be the first statement signing from Ineos. It won’t be a superstar, it’ll likely be a Toney-type player, but more effective than Martial.

 

[mu4c_20le]

I'll say this as a full member of the disbanded Martial FC - something changed in 2020/21 in the change of seasons. Not sure it was injuries, but even in good form, he's never been the same player after that.

When he arrived, he was an electric dribbler, because of speed, agility, and close control. He was also a superb finisher 1v1, and could play very well as both a 9 or a left winger. His obvious weakness was movement off the ball as a striker, but that was the only thing missing. Check out his first start (Southampton away, perfect #9 performance, IMO still his best game) or the horrible away game at Arsenal (where his dribbling made him a one-man attack from the left), or the last league game vs West Ham (speed and strength).

The dribbling reduced as he bulked up once Jose arrived, even though he continued to be used as a winger. His finishing was still great (in the short spells he had as a starter in 2017/18, he scored some clinical goals). And this was clear in his best season, despite a lengthy injury in the middle of it- 23 goals and 12 assists in 2019/20, playing as the undisputed 9. Dribbling isn't what it was, but he was still sharp, great control, and ice-cold finishing.

The types of mistakes he made once the next season started went beyond bad form. It's not that he wasn't agile enough to dribble - he was now actually clumsy with the ball. That had never happened before. Bad finishing - missing sitters, hitting 1v1s to the keeper instead of chipping or placing in a corner, slipping, mis-controlling... Things that has never gone wrong were totally off. This continued next season, though he played so little it's hard to say. I remember the 9-0 Southampton game where he scored a rare goal but still looked like a donkey compared to what he used to be, it's when I gave up on truly believing in him.
Some of his core strengths seemed to come back for a while after EtH came in, the finishing was good, the play with back to goal was sharp...then he got injured, twice, and now he's a total oaf again.

Is it all injuries? I don't know, they definitely played a role. But something basic is very broken and can't be fixed, and I'm not sure it's all down to lack of effort or whatever.

March 2021 he suffered the knee injury. Prior to that, he had been playing the best football off his career.

 

[berbatrick]

March 2021 he suffered the knee injury. Prior to that, he had been playing the best football off his career.

For me he lost his level in the change of season from 19/20 - 20/21, which was around Sept 2020. Don't know if he was carrying the injury for a few months - I know he suggested it, and Pogba and Rashford all said carrying injuries happened in Ole's time, but not sure of the specific dates.

Either way I think he looked cooked before March 2021. His season upto that point was 5G+2A in about 30 matches. Previous season he had 23G+11A in 48. Level had already fallen.

 

[led_scholes]

Why would you include Shaw? and no Sancho?

Recent criticism of Martial is strange, because we all know he is a nothing player and should have left years ago.

Sancho like Martial and Rashford has already been called out, only after his second year. Shaw like Martial and Rashford is stealing a living for years and has been part of the weak mentality we have.

Most have already forgot how shit Shaw has been for many years. The season under RR, it was obvious he had downed tools. Last year he was good like Rashford. But that doest change the fact that he has been both unfit for many years, and has shown repeatedly lack of professionalism.

 

[tenpoless]

Jose was right, the first day he met Martial he sent Martial an ultimatum about Zlatan getting the number 9 because Martial was a winger. Then when Martial asked for his contact he told Martial to put his thoughts into a rubbish bin and they will get delivered to his house.

 

[erikcred]

So picture yourself in his shoes. You are bought as an 18/19-year-old for world record money a manager with a clear structure of play, boring as it may have been, laid the foundations enough for you to have an outstanding season (by any measure when looking at a teenager playing his first season in a new country). That manager is then swiftly sacked after winning a trophy and replaced by Jose, a manager whose first action was to take your shirt number away.

Van Gaal literally said Martial was bought not for him, but for the next Utd manager - Giggs.

It's like a deluge of stupid decisions from everyone involved.

Edit: In Martial's first 5 seasons (pre-injury crisis) he only failed to reach double-figure goals in Jose's 1st season. Overall he got 71 goals in 222 appearances in that time. Is this genuinely a bad record for a striker under the age of 24 who mainly plays on the wing or is revisionist history kicking in for everyone and we all pretending those early years never happened?

I've no idea what the heck is happening in this part of the post, but he's 28 and he reached his ceiling 3 years ago. He's been putting in I-don't-care-very-much performances longer than Rashford. Plus Rashford had an excellent season recently. That's the only reason why Martial is some kind of barometer of laziness at the moment. It could easily turn to Rashford next.

Maguire's been getting far more stick than them despite trying his best simply because he's shit. That's not even his fault.

 

[Amir]

Martial had the potential to be a great player, but he squandered it with his poor attitude and lack of work ethic. He's rightly called out for it. All players should be called out for it. It's incredible that we attract so many of them. Martial, Rashford, Sancho, Pogba. The list goes on. They are all examples of how low standards have fallen and I personally don't want wasters like them associated with the club

They are examples of something. What that something is, I'm not sure.

All of them got to the club when they were young. Some were already more established, but all needed good coaching and guidance. Even Pogba, who at 23 just wasn't the finished article - even though he cost a lot. Good coaching and guidance is not something we had for most of the last decade.

Older stars who we've signed during those years also tended to disappoint.

So, I'd seriously look at the club as well. We had a part in the way they developed.

 

[Jordi Cruyff 99]

Has Martial ever scored a goal where he hasn't struck the ball with the inside of his foot? I've always been bemused by the fact he always has to side foot his shots. The best finishers are able to caress the ball into the net and also strike through the ball with the centre of the foot.

 

[JohnnyKills]

Martial is like Anderson in every way apart from the huge personality and energy.
So in other words…… not like him in the slightest possible way.

You really think Anderson gave more to United than Martial?

Anderson couldn't even be bothered to keep himself fit.

 

[Desert Eagle]

They are examples of something. What that something is, I'm not sure.

All of them got to the club when they were young. Some were already more established, but all needed good coaching and guidance. Even Pogba, who at 23 just wasn't the finished article - even though he cost a lot. Good coaching and guidance is not something we had for most of the last decade.

Older stars who we've signed during those years also tended to disappoint.

So, I'd seriously look at the club as well. We had a part in the way they developed.

They all came into a dressing room without real winners and leaders. Carrick and Rooney were about to retire and we were left with Jones, Young and De Gea as our veteran leadership core. I was a critic of Young when he was here ( I didn't think he was good enough) but he could teach a bunch of these sorry mofos about professionalism.

It's gotten so bad we've had to bring back almost retired Johnny Evans for his "presence"

 

[RoyH1]

I literally can’t work out (and it’s been the case for around 4 years) why managers still start Martial

I have no idea what they expect will happen. We all know what will happen, why don’t they?

It’s the “I can change him” mindset. They look at the physical package and his technique and think they can get him to be a great player….but all have tried and none have succeeded

 

[kaku06]

The fans will quickly forget this season if Rashford starts scoring again next season. But then he'll lose form again and we'll go round in circles. So I don't agree with the OP on that.

The way United fans forgave him for his 20/21 season is laughable and is the moment I knew many weren't serious about "getting rid of the problem players" as they spouted at the time, and that standards were in the gutter. He was abysmal that season, worse than this one. His attitude on the pitch was worse, he was trying to fight fans, he was leaking about moving to PSG. And yet, all is forgiven the following season. The fans are what's pulled this club into the dirt. No accountability from the club and the fans don't enforce accountability either, instead blow smoke up these players backsides before they've even achieved a thing.

This is just reaping what you sow.

Spot on. Agree with every word of your post.

 

[Champ]

Sancho like Martial and Rashford has already been called out, only after his second year. Shaw like Martial and Rashford is stealing a living for years and has been part of the weak mentality we have.

Most have already forgot how shit Shaw has been for many years. The season under RR, it was obvious he had downed tools. Last year he was good like Rashford. But that doest change the fact that he has been both unfit for many years, and has shown repeatedly lack of professionalism.

Is this the same Luke Shaw that came back from an horrific leg break? The same one that was singled out for criticism by a manager yet didn't let that get to him, instead worked hard on his fitness and became a better player?

That same mentally weak Shaw??

Sometimes this place is too much

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

The twitter support for Martial is mental.

 

[The Purley King]

You really think Anderson gave more to United than Martial?

Anderson couldn't even be bothered to keep himself fit.

Erm……… martial is probably second on the all time injured list after Phil Jones!
Also whilst Anderson might have been blowing after 60 minutes at least he demonstrated some effort when he was on the pitch. Martial plays like he’s on a cigarette break.
Give me Anderson every day of the week and twice on Sundays

 

[Insanity]

Sancho like Martial and Rashford has already been called out, only after his second year. Shaw like Martial and Rashford is stealing a living for years and has been part of the weak mentality we have.

Most have already forgot how shit Shaw has been for many years. The season under RR, it was obvious he had downed tools. Last year he was good like Rashford. But that doest change the fact that he has been both unfit for many years, and has shown repeatedly lack of professionalism.

You won't find many who'll support you on this, but you are 100% correct on Shaw.

 

[Jeffthered]

'Martial is just a cheap scapegoat because he doesn't fit into the British culturally accepted model of running and putting yourself about = working hard.'

Absolute nonsense, and may I add, a rather lazy, disrespectful assessment of British culture.

If anyone needs a post that captures the problem amongst some Man Utd fans, and how both standards and expectations have fallen, then this lengthy, rather strange, introduction to this thread, says it all.

Antony Martial is a poor, poor football player. He has some ability, but it's never been as good as some suggest. His record after eight (yes eight) years is not even close to outstanding, its comfortably average. He is injury prone. But, and this is the key thing, his attitude and application has been consistently and visibly the worst amongst the squad.

He's an embarrassing example of where Man Utd FC are. He's a joke, pundits speak of him with genuine disbelief "..he's still at Man Utd.." etc.

Yet, some fans, who I can only assume base their knowledge of the game on player Instagram feeds, stats and PC Games, still think Anthony Martial has something to offer this great, magnificent, historic football club.

 

[M Bison]

I'd rather we started with Hugill up front, at least he'd actually try. Give me Danny Welbeck over Martial any day.

 

[devilish]

The class of 92 are regular visitors to Malta. Now we have a tradition of offering free rounds of beer to our mates. Needless to say that the two were caught in the loop. Since it was summer the two took a pint only to find another pint of free beer waiting for them. Necks took the second round but was stopped by Gaz as it was specified by saf that they could only take 1 pint a day. David thought it was rude to refuse the beer but Gaz didn't relent. They both explained the situation to the fans and left.

The crux of the story is that discipline and leadership is needed across the board from the higher ups (ceo) right to the lowest level (players, staff and even fans). It makes zero sense to sign promising kids only to throw them in the deep end with no guidance/leadership whatsoever. It also makes zero sense to expect the manager to take that burden on his own considering that he needs his players to perform more then they need him.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Our big-money contracts became so cheap around the 2018-2020 period which all began with Sanchez signing. If Sanchez was 400k (or whatever), De Gea must be close since he was the world's best keeper (supposedly) at the time and Rashford and Martial must be around ~200k. Basically, we paid top tier wages to mediocre players in the hope that they will become world class. And we keep doing that over and over again. At this point, we should be forbidden from paying more than 150k (or a low threshold) to any new signing. Not a single person is surprised that Rashford has hit this low level after signing his new contract. In fact, even in the 30 goal season last year, in a lot of the games, goals masked Rashford's poor performances. A smart management team would've leveraged the season and sold him off at top dollar. Chelsea were able to do that for Mount despite an awful season last year. We have a gullible management team who gets conned by every other club for transfer fees and agents and players for salaries. Chelsea made a similar mistake when they got the likes of Koulibaly stuck on large wages but showed good awareness to get rid of him as early as possible and reduced their losses. At the same time, we were making pennies by selling off our youngsters. Even the likes of Elanga, in a struggling Forest team, are outperforming all our forwards currently.

We deserve every bit of negative feedback from the media. If anything, our hall of shame needs to be highlighted more. During Fergie's reign, we signed enough duds. But I don't remember a single player who got stuck because no one was willing to pay any sort of money for them. Look at the current squad and see what we can get for young players such as Antony, Sancho or Rashford. No one will touch them with a bargepole because of the wages they're at and the only solutions would be loan-to buy where we pay part of the wages and then the buy option doesn't get activated. The INEOS team comes in with an overhaul mandate and they will now realize (or may have already done) the level of idiocy that's been allowed to happen. Shame on everyone from the owners to Woodward to Arnold to Murtough and all of them deserve to be sacked.

 

[DickDastardly]

All you have to do is consecutively watch Manchester United with Martial up top and then watch any other premiership game, let's say Shitty vs Tottenham, and watch Haaland or Son play up top.

The difference isn't the talent, or the hair, or the skin color....

The difference is in the athletic part.

Son and Haaland (or any other PL forward) actually run. And when they run, they sprint, and when they sprint, it actually looks good. Convincing. Running with a purpose.

Tony doesn't run. Even when he scores goals, it's not because of running.

I'm sorry, but this isn't the 80's anymore.

 

[King7Eric]

It's definitely a club and manager's share of responsibility to make sure players achieve their full potential, else why even bother building a training ground and hiring coaches? Just call the players to gather in the changing room on the weekend and play. I'd argue that player talent and hard work alone will amount to nothing if not surrounded by an environment conducive to maximizing their talents. There's research in NFL showing that the best players coming out of the draft who end up on the worst teams perform worse than the slightly worse players playing for better teams. Do you honestly think if Jude Bellingham had joined us and was currently in our squad he would be getting compared to Zidane?

I don't think Martial has performed "slightly worse" than other players of similar talents. He's had a shockingly low level of output. Of course, playing in a better team will increase your output but that's not the point I'm making at all.

Look at Bruno as an example. I've said it multiple times on here, going as far back as the 20/21 season that we won't win titles with Bruno as our focal point because it limits us tactically. But, even I can't fault his output. There is a reason every manager has made him the focal point of our play because he delivers and puts in the effort. Whether his style of play is conducive to long term success of the team is a different discussion, but no one can fault his attitude to come out and establish himself as the main man.

Martial has been here way longer than Bruno and just lurked around in the shadows, never displaying that mettle to become the main man.

Hell, look at Ronaldo. Another player I'm no fan off, but he came at 36 and scored 24 goals in a totally disjointed team. He made sure he did his part. That's not too much to ask of any player. If people are making excuses for why players can't do their part to their utmost best, then those people are part of the problem as well.

You make the point about Bellingham. If he ever joined us, given how focused and motivated he appears to be, I think he would have made a similar impact like Bruno. It might not have been enough to make us title winners, but we wouldn't be discussing him in the same vein as Martial, Sancho or Pogba.

 

[led_scholes]

Is this the same Luke Shaw that came back from an horrific leg break? The same one that was singled out for criticism by a manager yet didn't let that get to him, instead worked hard on his fitness and became a better player?

That same mentally weak Shaw??

Sometimes this place is too much

Yes the same Shaw that has been criticized by Pochettino and LVG for his fitness level, the same Shaw that was atrocious for a whole year after having his best ever season (20/21).

 

[statpadder]

Spot on. The amount of flak Martial gets especially when he’s been one of our better players this season is ridiculous and tiresome.

We have played worse without him and if anyone needed to know where our problems lie, just look at Hoijland struggling as well. He runs a lot right?

 

[lex talionis]

The lack of effort by Martial, which not a single poster here denies, has established his reputation as a footballer who vastly underperformed relative to his ability.

 

[spiriticon]

Poor man's Anelka sounds about right.

 

[massiveissue]

It is not the club's or the manager's responsibility to make sure a player achieves his full potential. It is solely the player's responsibility.

We make excuse after excuse for our players and managers. Yet it is the sole responsibility of the individual to make sure they succeed. This is how every profession is at the highest level. There is no fan bias. Martial failed himself, either it be due to lack of application or due to his body not holding up. He is to blame for the state of his career, no one else.

Our biggest issue is we keep hiring people as both players or managers who are happy to use our struggles as an excuse as to why they don't succeed, rather than finding people who will succeed inspite of the circumstances.

Think this is a wrong take here. Any player brought to the club is an asset and should be properly developed by the club into whatever was initially planned, be it to perform and help the team or be it to maintain his market value and sell.

Both parts are to blame for his career, not only the player. He came in, had a very good season, then did well in Jose's first and then his body collapsed.

 

[VP89]

Spot on. The amount of flak Martial gets especially when he’s been one of our better players this season is ridiculous and tiresome.

We have played worse without him and if anyone needed to know where our problems lie, just look at Hoijland struggling as well. He runs a lot right?

Martial has been shite this season?

 

[Born2Lose]

The OP has put more effort into his initial post than Martial has since he signed that last contract.

Should have got rid then, United and parts of the fanbase never learn.

 

[Born2Lose]

Spot on. The amount of flak Martial gets especially when he’s been one of our better players this season is ridiculous and tiresome.

We have played worse without him and if anyone needed to know where our problems lie, just look at Hoijland struggling as well. He runs a lot right?

Always amazes me how "effort" is a dirty word on the forum, when every week in the PL we get completely outworked.

 

[Woodzy]

The sprint he made that created the alleged fallout with EtH wasn’t exactly jogging but it wasn’t done with a great deal of conviction either.

I mentioned it in the match day thread (and it's the same with Rashford), is that they will both sprint every now and again but it's like they don't even know why they are being asked to sprint. They just don't quite understand work ethic and what's required.

 

[Mainoonited]

I literally can’t work out (and it’s been the case for around 4 years) why managers still start Martial

I have no idea what they expect will happen. We all know what will happen, why don’t they?

I think they just struggle to get rid of him.

 

[SonOfFergie]

I mentioned it in the match day thread (and it's the same with Rashford), is that they will both sprint every now and again but it's like they don't even know why they are being asked to sprint. They just don't quite understand work ethic and what's required.

No I think it is something else. Every once in a while they decide to do a "PR sprint to show they care and work hard". And after that back to lethargy.

 

[Dans]

The OP has put more effort into his initial post than Martial has since he signed that last contract.

Love that!

 

[King7Eric]

Think this is a wrong take here. Any player brought to the club is an asset and should be properly developed by the club into whatever was initially planned, be it to perform and help the team or be it to maintain his market value and sell.

Both parts are to blame for his career, not only the player. He came in, had a very good season, then did well in Jose's first and then his body collapsed.

It is this line of thinking that has bought us where we are today, with a bloated squad full of players who aren't properly motivated enough to perform.

How many players who aren't properly motivated do you think survive at City, Real Madrid or Barca? Bale is probably the only recent example who comes to mind who managed to stay long at Real despite losing his edge, but even he was absolutely terrific for them in his first few seasons at the club, something we can't say for the likes of Martial, who has had 2 good seasons in 9.

 

[Denis79]

He should have been sold long ago. Both for his sake and ours.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Martial is a good example of the club's disconnect with an actual plan. Ignoring the fact Mou was a bad appointment, we hired a manager who did not want to play Martial after a very promising period under LVG. Any club with a shred of commercial nous would then have sold him for big money - his stock was high, he was young and there were no off field issues. Whilst that means we would have lost an undoubtedly talented player, it would have been the best long term decision.

I'm a big Tony fan, I really think he could have been something special had we continued with possession based coaches post LVG but it wasn't to be and we've not really played a style of football that suits him for a long long time.

 

[OL29]

https://x.com/henrywinter/status/1731994278895768008?s=46

This is what I keep talking about with the British press, why are they singling out a player who’s started 4 league games this season? We all know he needs to go but he’s far from the main problem.

 

[grahamo]

Martial should have been sold long ago when We would still have got a few bob for him. He has completely wasted his talent. Seeing him stroll around the pitch absolutely infuriates Me. The people who stick up for him on here must be friends or family members . I read some posts a few days ago saying wait and see, next year he'll be playing for Barca! Yeah right!