He will be fortunate to have 1/20 of the career Benzema and Rooney have had and hasn't done anything yet to warrant the comparisons. It's clear that you don't like Ronaldo, which is fair enough, but to claim that Greenwood was in the right for throwing his toys out the pram when given the chance to learn from one of the best to do it is absurd. When Ronaldo came to united one of the most common things people were saying was that it gave players like Greenwood a chance to learn from him.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
- Start date
My names Mainoldo.. I think there’s a hint there. I’m just a big man so nolonger am I a fanboi to these footballers. Just call it how I see it.
Greenwood is just as talented as those names you’ve mentioned and everyone at the club and by the looks of reports, himself included knows how good he is. However talent isn’t everything and it is what it is. I’m just not going to pretend or state things that shouldn’t be true because I am suppose to like or hate an individual.
CR7 was past it and the fact we was trying to excel and brought him in which would have naturally meant we play to his strengths was a joke. Players like Greenwood were just ballsy enough to call it out.
Either you didn't watch Rooney when he was Greenwood's age or you're forgetting what he was like, but he was well clear of Greenwood. You're massively overrating him.
Greenwood, an unproven player that's just made the jump to the first team, ballsy, not petulant and arrogant to throw his toys out the pram when he's told to learn from one of the greatest to play the game. Sure.
Stop being silly and over convoluting the statement. Mason Greenwood has world class talent. I don’t care what spectrum that falls in between Wayne Rooney to Glen Hoddle.
My point was he was good and didn’t think CR7 was better than him or benefited his game. Anything else is just your personal opinion which you are obligated to have. I just don’t agree.
I was always for keep him away from club because of his not so private life.
he wasn’t convicted whether wrongly or not. You are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.
If Antony allowed to still play and nearly have things forgot about then I don’t see any reason why he shouldn’t ve allowed back.
and purely on business and football side of things why spend 50-100m on an attacker when we probably have a better one available
he wasn’t convicted whether wrongly or not. You are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent.
If Antony allowed to still play and nearly have things forgot about then I don’t see any reason why he shouldn’t ve allowed back.
and purely on business and football side of things why spend 50-100m on an attacker when we probably have a better one available
Just out of curiosity, why is this thread is pinned?
Can we send Antony to Getafe instead and have Mason back?
It's time to put him on a plane and bring him back from Spain.
I'm not over convoluting the statement. I'm taking what you said at face value. So you agree it was an exaggeration then?
So you condone a recently graduated youth team player throwing their toys out the pram because one of the all time greats joining doesn't benefit them? You do realize how ridiculous that sounds, right?
It wasn’t an exaggeration as he’s a world class talent. Just because he wasn’t Wayne Rooney at 18 doesn’t mean he’s not as good. CR7 wasn’t Wayne Rooney or even Michael Owen at 18. I’m sure we can both agree he’s better than both of them.
It’s not ridiculous as football isn’t stagnant. It’s like believe a Del Piero of 96 would just happily sit tight for Roberto Baggio if he went back to Juventus. He’d bloody demand his spot.
Bring the boy home.
There is is an important backdrop to consider to a current debate in on this page.
Acquiring the services of Ronaldo was never the plan in the summer 2021.
Another player to consider in this was Edison Cavani. Solskjaer spent the spring of 21 convincing Cavani to stay for a further season in order to be the experienced striker to help with setting the perceived future front line of Rashford, the incoming Sancho and Greenwood (which would also be backed up by Amad Diallo).
The other signing aside from Varane and Sancho was supposed to be a central midfielder. The number one target for this position was Eduardo Camvinga, due to his contractual position at Rennes. But he chose Real Madrid as his priority destination. The next choice was obviously Declan Rice, but that would be difficult due to his cost.
They would have had to have found a stop gap, sold more players other Daneil James or borrowed from the following summer's budget. But when you consider United paid £75 million for Anthony, maybe that would have been a good decision.
I am not going to get into what occurred with the various players I have mentioned, but to present this as Ronaldo being the excellent example to follow is speculative at best.
The only way in which he would have been a "good example" for the young players to "look up to" is in his conditioning and how he looks after himself.
From a psychological point of view, the presence would have done more harm than good. He was a player obsessed with records and his own individual standing in the game. Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho were players whose confidence would have and did wane with the spectre of Ronaldo on the pitch. Particularly, Rashford, who does not even the mental strength to consistently lead the line for United as we we are seeing now.
I have always said that Greenwood has far superior mental strength on the field to that of Rashford. Greenwood, would have been playing in the central role in certain matches with Rashford on the left and Sancho or Diallo on the right.
Now, I am not criticising Ronaldo. He is an elite player who will be remembered for many years to come and he stands as one of the greats in the game.
However, he was not right for United at that point in time. The only way that Ronaldo coming back to United would have worked was if United were a team of Champions. They were not ready for him. If they were a team that had won the league the season before, then United could take that opportunity to bring him in as consolidating force and as an experienced player to help the team make a headways in the Champion's League.
The conversation between Solskjaer and Ronaldo would have had to have been "Ronaldo, we won the league last year. We want to win it again this year, but we also want to go for the Champions League and we need your help in certain moments in the league and the big moments in Europe."
Ronaldo would have had to agree that type of role. Fanciful idea, yes, but it was the only way it would have been a success.
Do I think Greenwood has the mental strength to return and play in the Premeir League? You are damn right I think he does. He has that elite, tunnel visioned, mental strength that Rooney had when he used to back to Goodison Park, that Beckham did sfter France 98 and what Ronaldo has after losing a new born child and then playing against Arsenal a few days later.
The journalist Phil Brown describes it as having "sociopathic element to how you are mentally wired" in how you can perform and separate external factors from what is unfolding on the pitch. it is a characteristic you associate more with individual sports such as boxing or tennis.
Acquiring the services of Ronaldo was never the plan in the summer 2021.
Another player to consider in this was Edison Cavani. Solskjaer spent the spring of 21 convincing Cavani to stay for a further season in order to be the experienced striker to help with setting the perceived future front line of Rashford, the incoming Sancho and Greenwood (which would also be backed up by Amad Diallo).
The other signing aside from Varane and Sancho was supposed to be a central midfielder. The number one target for this position was Eduardo Camvinga, due to his contractual position at Rennes. But he chose Real Madrid as his priority destination. The next choice was obviously Declan Rice, but that would be difficult due to his cost.
They would have had to have found a stop gap, sold more players other Daneil James or borrowed from the following summer's budget. But when you consider United paid £75 million for Anthony, maybe that would have been a good decision.
I am not going to get into what occurred with the various players I have mentioned, but to present this as Ronaldo being the excellent example to follow is speculative at best.
The only way in which he would have been a "good example" for the young players to "look up to" is in his conditioning and how he looks after himself.
From a psychological point of view, the presence would have done more harm than good. He was a player obsessed with records and his own individual standing in the game. Rashford, Greenwood and Sancho were players whose confidence would have and did wane with the spectre of Ronaldo on the pitch. Particularly, Rashford, who does not even the mental strength to consistently lead the line for United as we we are seeing now.
I have always said that Greenwood has far superior mental strength on the field to that of Rashford. Greenwood, would have been playing in the central role in certain matches with Rashford on the left and Sancho or Diallo on the right.
Now, I am not criticising Ronaldo. He is an elite player who will be remembered for many years to come and he stands as one of the greats in the game.
However, he was not right for United at that point in time. The only way that Ronaldo coming back to United would have worked was if United were a team of Champions. They were not ready for him. If they were a team that had won the league the season before, then United could take that opportunity to bring him in as consolidating force and as an experienced player to help the team make a headways in the Champion's League.
The conversation between Solskjaer and Ronaldo would have had to have been "Ronaldo, we won the league last year. We want to win it again this year, but we also want to go for the Champions League and we need your help in certain moments in the league and the big moments in Europe."
Ronaldo would have had to agree that type of role. Fanciful idea, yes, but it was the only way it would have been a success.
Do I think Greenwood has the mental strength to return and play in the Premeir League? You are damn right I think he does. He has that elite, tunnel visioned, mental strength that Rooney had when he used to back to Goodison Park, that Beckham did sfter France 98 and what Ronaldo has after losing a new born child and then playing against Arsenal a few days later.
The journalist Phil Brown describes it as having "sociopathic element to how you are mentally wired" in how you can perform and separate external factors from what is unfolding on the pitch. it is a characteristic you associate more with individual sports such as boxing or tennis.
Careful, if we bring him back Rachel Riley will come up with some nine letter words.
Very interesting how "sociopathic element" is brought up in relation to Greenwood...
Most top athletes are clearly higher on the psychopathy scale than the everyday person. This doesn’t excuse shitty behaviour, but it does explain some of it.
The problem is insisting or accepting these people are role models, when in all honesty many of them are actually less deserving of hero-worship than the average person.
Success in very cut throat environments with high rewards and high pressure requires selfishness and is often accompanied by higher psychopathy and sociopathy levels.
The phrases we casually dish out as compliments subtly reveal this to ourselves - ‘he’s a machine’, ‘cold under pressure’, ‘calm and measured when all around him were losing their heads’ - all of these are highly indicative of psychopathy and to a lesser degree sociopathy.
Please note, I’m digressing here and talking generally about high level athletes.
The same, incidentally, is true at the upper echelons of law, medicine, the church etc - much higher levels of psychopathy at the highest levels of ‘rank’.
We are, essentially, a species that naturally defers towards (and admires) psychopathy, and then doesn’t like the outcome of putting such individuals in positions of high influence.
I agree with all this.
Sociopathic elements are much more common than people tend to realise, and it stretches way beyond high achievers.
Thank you Rhyme Animal. This is exactly what I am talking about.
My sister is a musician and producer and we were once discussing how some of the best artists or producers of modern music are geniuses in their field, but have had incidents where they have struggled with self regulation and have caused controversy. She was explaining to me how this is frequent occurrence and it will occur again.
Michael Jackson has come up on this discussion thread others include James Brown, the producers Ike Turner, Phil Spector and even Dr Dre has had issues. As you say it does not excuse many issues, but social media has created a sense that can be closer to us, if we want them to be. 20-30 years ago, if felt like these people came from another planet.
I am sure we could examples during the classical and baroque periods of music. In terms of art, you could mention Van Gough.
It absolutely does raise the debate of role models and what we expect from these people and being able to define status and perception and just being realistic about our own expectations of these people.
I think it's very realistic to still expect them not to be wildly inappropriate with children or ending up on a recording threatening to rape someone.
Hero worship is obviously a blight but let's not forget the amount of people who are talented at something, famous or in high pressure jobs who don't end up in these situations. In fact it's still clearly an huge outlier.
I am not disagreeing with you at all. But the age of social media has condensed the world we live in. It was easier for people in the public eye to uphold an image of perfection because the "space" between them and us was far greater.
Does Mike Tyson still has iconic status even though he has been to prison?
Doesn't that depend on who you ask?
I tend not to hero worship or idolise "celebrity" and I've met more than my fair share. Personally I think Tyson is a legend in his sport, much like Greenwood could end up being in his. Doesn't mean I have to worship, support or even pay money to see either. Nor does it mean I have to give them any more benefit of the doubt or sympathy that anyone else when they step out of line.
Social media is such an easy tool to blame for the intense scrutiny, but the modern world has moved us somewhat forward in terms of things like equality and shining a light in things that should not be as accepted now as it was in years gone by. It's kind of like lamenting that this kind of thing can't be hidden behind closed curtains any more, and I know that's not what you are saying, but if you think about it isn't that the basics of it?
People hate each other all the time on Social media, including the social media site we are talking on right now, but ultimately if you don't act like a scumbag and get yourself into a bad situation then you aren't likely to have it all come down on you.
In any case, this is a bit heavy for a Christmas eve so I'm going to wish you guys a genuine great one!
Because it’s easier for us to moderate than having numpties open thread after thread every time someone has a ‘unique’ thought
He’s likely not going to give public explanation because any words can be twisted or used in court for any cases. I think the lawyer told him to remain silent.
Free Greenwood!
He hugs too. But gay or not we all love Mata’s hugs.What an odd post
And what's the source for the Mata gay rumours anyway? Weirdly, when I google it, a top result is an utterly moronic post from a user here suggesting that he might be gay because he dresses well and has not been spotted with a female love interest.
Greenwood was a generational talent he could have gone to the very top with UTD but you cannot forget the past. Some things are more important than football and this is one of them.
Never made a comment about this topic on this forum(I'm only a newbie, anyways). Wanted to stay out of it.
I would make a pragmatic, and immoral decision to bring him back to our squad. I sincerely hope he's learned something from his mistakes, has matured and would stay out of trouble for the rest of his life.
I'm traumatized by watching toothless Antony on the right wing and having no one(except McTominay, I guess) who can properly finish. When the "rehabilitation" in Spain ends, bring the young lad back. If he's not in prison(convicted), he belongs on the football pitch - and that pitch can be Old Trafford.
I would make a pragmatic, and immoral decision to bring him back to our squad. I sincerely hope he's learned something from his mistakes, has matured and would stay out of trouble for the rest of his life.
I'm traumatized by watching toothless Antony on the right wing and having no one(except McTominay, I guess) who can properly finish. When the "rehabilitation" in Spain ends, bring the young lad back. If he's not in prison(convicted), he belongs on the football pitch - and that pitch can be Old Trafford.
This. Let's say he did this, didnt feck up and keep banging goals with us till now people are gonna say something like "winning mentality", "mamba mentality" or some other similar shit. Anyhow I am on the side of bringing him back. For example, Kobe's rape case was dropped and I dont remember Lakers making a big deal out of it. Imagine Lakers banished him to Pacers or some other random small team
So if we cannot be sure of all of these things, why take such a hard stance on him ever coming back to the club?
Considering that the victim seemingly forgave him, considering his young age when it happened, and considering he was never convicted, but still harshly punished, the question in the end is if we as fans - like his gf - are ready to move on. I think I am.
Bring him back. I understand there are some things greater than football but if they have no problem together and living just fine, why should anyone else have a problem ?
It’s interesting to see what will be Sir Jim’s stance on it. From a purely sporting perspective it’s a no brainer to recall him from loan: we need goals and we have attackers severely underperforming, whereas Greenwood is a player who is able to play RW and CF - exactly where we need reinforcements
Get the boy back ASAP he's class.
He’d have more goals than the £70m man we just brought.
This subreddit vividly reflects the split opinions. Should Greenwood return, he'd inevitably become the focal point of admiration, criticism, and scrutiny. Were I his advisor, I'd recommend staying in Spain—maintaining a low profile, learning from past errors, and concentrating on family and football.
At just 21, excelling on the field and developing his game, Greenwood, a rare and costly winger, should think twice about returning to Old Trafford. With confidence soaring and a solid contract, he can afford to bide his time. Real Madrid or Barcelona might come knocking, especially considering his potential availability at a reasonable price. His friend Bellingham might be whispering things in his ears.
While most analyze the situation from United's viewpoint, it's crucial to remember Greenwood holds sway over his future. Recall, even Ronaldo departed during Ferguson's reign. Does Greenwood truly desire a return? Consider this alternative perspective.
At just 21, excelling on the field and developing his game, Greenwood, a rare and costly winger, should think twice about returning to Old Trafford. With confidence soaring and a solid contract, he can afford to bide his time. Real Madrid or Barcelona might come knocking, especially considering his potential availability at a reasonable price. His friend Bellingham might be whispering things in his ears.
While most analyze the situation from United's viewpoint, it's crucial to remember Greenwood holds sway over his future. Recall, even Ronaldo departed during Ferguson's reign. Does Greenwood truly desire a return? Consider this alternative perspective.
Personally I don't care how good he was, is or might become. He could be better than Messi at his height for all I care and I wouldn't have him back for one second.
This idea that some put about that he was never convicted in court, that charges were dropped, that people are innocent until proven guilty etc. is rendered entirely moot by the damning images and audio his partner released for the world to consume.
If there's even a shred of truth in that content then he's a reprehensible individual who has no right wearing the shirt and representing our great club.
Just my opinion of course.
This idea that some put about that he was never convicted in court, that charges were dropped, that people are innocent until proven guilty etc. is rendered entirely moot by the damning images and audio his partner released for the world to consume.
If there's even a shred of truth in that content then he's a reprehensible individual who has no right wearing the shirt and representing our great club.
Just my opinion of course.
Spot on fella.
Is this an important backdrop? I'm not really sure it is.
He was the one who put himself out of contention for a year from his own behaviour. I don't really see how Ronaldo can be a such a harmful impact if he had such a strong mentality as you suggest. When you even say he was a model professional in terms of application and conditioning - something Greenwood objectively wasn't.
I'm honestly struggling to understand the point in all that you wrote there apart from him being potentially sociopathic?
I fully respect your opinion. The issue around him is always going to be divided.
I for one believe that everyone deserves a second chance. I also think that because he has not been convicted, there is something we don't know behind everything. I just find it really odd that this girl then has a baby with him and is living happy ever after in Madrid despite allegations.
The whole scenario is just so strange but I fully understand people who don't want him yo play for the club again.
I’ve decided I like football more than wimmins so all is forgiven he can come back
I’m happy either way. I’ll stand by the clubs decision. We’ve not had him for like 2 years now anyway so it’s not like we’d miss him. He’d probably help us out yes but it would still hide the cracks. Can’t rely on certain individuals to bail us out if we can’t perform as a team.