Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Unless Ratcliffe feels a vast majority of the controversy has already subsided and he feels he can rehabilitate the player at United, alongside some form of a public apology.
Are you ok?Good lord
Someone get this innocent victim into protective custody. The horror.
I totally agree however you will get that the club has a duty of care, they extend his contract and look to sell at £50-60m in summer or January 25 window. The club has a +1 extension which takes him to 2925/26, Sir Jim will look at Greenwood as an asset, all be it tarnished and will look to get the maximum he can from that asset.
Hear ya mate, but the vitriol over the last time his name was brought up around United was pretty heavy. Doubt the 'new guys' would want to deal with that.
Maybe we get a big fee?
It's almost a cert he won't be and he's not even a £40m 'asset' let alone £100m.
That is upsetting to hear. I hope you have managed to come to some accommodation within yourself about it as I know it often has life long and altering effects. Especially given how many perpetrators get away with it and seeing DV/SA/CSA (alleged) perpetrators not being convicted must be hard.
When a case from my old school was prosecuted (and convicted for once) the police/CPS (I forget which) said 7 other cases would gave been prosecuted if the accused were still alive. I suspect the real number was much higher especially if he physical assaults had been taken more seriously at the time.
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Was pretty meh against Espanyol in the cup from what I saw. He's still got the talent in him, still got the same flaws in his game.
These threads are a fecking disaster to moderate. Two of them is twice the work.
We're not stopping you from ignoring the context of his loan, you can ignore any posters who insist on the constant reminding of the context.
That's the time issue.
The other issue is the optics issue, and not all the mods agree with me here, but I personally don't think it's a good look for the forum to have a space where the context of his loan is ignored while he is eulogised and continuously wished back into the club, because that would be a most unrepresentative of RedCafe as a whole.
People will do well to remember that this is a privately held forum. Moaning about how volunteers run the place will get you nowhere. Go find somewhere that suits you better if the place is so bad
Saw more of his last performance for Getafe. Very direct, growing in confidence and so much better than anything we currently have. The closest is Garnacho but Greenwood is stronger and faster at this stage. You can't just bin rare talents like this and expect to succeed. If other teams had someone like this they'd move heaven and Earth to ensure he plays. Social media is not real life and nobody really cares what Twitter thinks. Talking to people in person most want to give him a second chance especially now that he's back with his missus and has a baby with her.
I've watched a few Getafe games this year. He is definitely growing in confidence as the year progresses, but I'm not sure if his form is on par with Garnacho's this year.
I’ve found the opposite to be true, in respect of your last sentence. Most local fans I talk to wouldn’t dream of wanting him back. The online community seem far more keen on bringing him back, in my experience.
He’s probably about a £40 million asset now with the potential to reach £100 million, if his ability and finishing flourishes as a striker. The club won’t accept anything under £60-70 million imo, and I’d be very surprised if any club is willing to pay that figure.
The club would snap your hand off for £40m. No PL club would buy him which leaves a small pool of European clubs, the biggest wouldn't go near him and the rest don't have much money.
Started off slowly but has been growing into one of their more important players going forward.
Yep. Same.
People seem to be conflating online with real life. Online lots of people want him back. In real life he’s banished from the club forever.
For me, United is a family club. That culture tends to inform the views and values of its fanbase.
I imagine both are anecdotes at the end of the day. Its clear there are those on both sides whether match going or strictly online. From my view there are also a lot who will accept whatever United choose to do.
I wish I could say the same, both online and in person most people I know want him back. Its a position I can't understand, especially coming from lads with daughters of their own, but unfortunately I'm hearing it more and more, (probably to do with how poor we've been to be fair, people will jump at any chance of us being better, no matter the moral cost)
If it was just online I could put it down to trolls, and fans that don't understand the values this club was built on, but instead I've spoke to loads of lifelong local fans that want him back. In fact I'd say here on redcafe, is the main place I've seen that is probably 80/20 in terms of not wanting him back.
Plenty of match going fans would accept him back. Obviously there’s a divide though but it’s certainly not contained to one group v another.
Just out of interest,
Do you find that there is any particular demographic in the match going fan that leads to him coming back or is it just random.
I can see both parts of the argument but I gave up posting on the subject for various reasons.
I’ve not noticed any specific demographic personally. Again, only a small sample size from talking to randoms pre match .
I’ve heard lots of fans before/at/after games say theyd have him back (and plenty who wouldnt). Hard to gauge overall opinion as the majority aren’t talking about him (theyre talking about current side, performances, etc) but definitely no noticeable leaning either way from the ones discussing it.
Won player of the month award for Getafe. Bit confusing how they word the way its voted for though. Think its voted for by all la liga fans for the top clubs, at least that's how MEN worded it.
I don't believe it's anything like 80/20 on here, but I also don't think it's a simple Yes/No question either - a poll would be interesting and my guess is that it would be close to 50/50
I also get a 50/50 vibe from matchday but all this kind of info is just anecdotal
If we were good and he wouldn't improve our attack I am sure it would be significantly weighted towards selling him but we are abject so I get it.
I don't want him back personally.
Looking at it pragmatically, it's good that he's generating significant interest in Spain. He's an academy product, and any significant money we do get for him would be a real boost to our FFP budget that season. If we get a decent value for him there are very few good arguments as to why he should be brought back. Commercially he's risky, performance-wise he's not a lot better than other options out there right now, and because he's an academy product our FFP allowance would benefit from a sale. That's before we delve into the complicated moral issues that surrounds him.
Time is the great healer. He just needs to keep his head down and give media the Paul Scholes treatment. Dunno if he'll play for us again but he'll get his career back on track if he sticks to family + football.
Why mention this separately? This isn’t the place to determine which person is the “father of the year”. Lets keep people private life out of this conversation.
The question is whether a 20 (19 when he committed the alleged crimes which were never proven) year old gets a second chance or not? Considering both the alleged victim and her family have accepted his mistake and now living together happily, it’s only the people who don’t have all the context, is crying out for his head on the chop.
This arbitrary decision that he gets a second chance but not at United is actually dumb. What determines that his alleged guilt is okay enough for him to play in Spain but not at United?
Quality control
Keep seeing these kind of posts about values and being a family club. United has always been a club about second chances and come backs. We have given second chances to many players in similar situations. Cantona kicked a fan live, was banned, and we fought to bring him back. We lost the busby babes, came back and won in Europe...Giggs and his scandals etc. I could go on and on but United is the one club that is about second chances.
Furthermore Family club doesnt mean what people think it means. It means doing exactly this.... giving players second chances. Whats special about a family if they only give you a chance when you life is going well . Its crazy that people really think Family means behave right or you are out. I am absolutely sure that barring disciplinary problems, Ferguson would give GW a second chance.
I actually think that it is precisely because manutd have become a commercial club that they now even consider social media oppinions before they decide such things. This decision should not come down to social media...it should be a conversation in the club with the teams and mangers he will work with day to day. If they are NOT convinced by the explanations for the evidence we saw online or if they have doubts about his discipline then he should be let go. But this idea that United of old wouldn't do this is a big huge lie...we used to do exactly this....second chances was exactly what we were about.
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It's mentioned because I have a daughter of my own, and if you think I would ever support someone who uttered the words he did you're crazy. Proven guilty or not, I heard what I heard.
The fact people heard that and want him back purely because he's a good footballer is crazy to me.
I also didn't bring anyone's personal life into it apart from my own. No names were mentioned.
For me personally, family club means taking my family to games, having my kids supporting United etc. I'd rather not have them support someone like Greenwood.
I'm done after these replies, it'll just go in circles again.
You can see the steady improvements in his physicality mainly. At the start, he wasn't that into games because he was lacking in strength, pace and stamina. Now, he's seemingly close to getting those things back - holding the ball under pressure, beating opposition players with pace down the wing, remaining effective in the latter stages of games.
His technique remained strong. It's just that, now, his improvements regarding his physicality are allowing him to showcase said technique. Come next season, I think whoever has him will have a very good player on their hands from the get go.
Agreed.
It’s quite incredible, some of the false equivalences being peddled in this thread. Everyday, something even more insane than the day before is posted.
There are a lot of awful analogies being pushed in this thread. If you have to reach as far as Mike fecking Tyson, just stop. Your argument is weak, unlike Mike Tyson
What isn't getting as much pushback are the following misguided opinions stated as fact:
1. Anything other than banishment from United is a wider statement around DV in society
2. Anyone for his return doesn't care about DV
3. Having a separate conversation about Greenwood and football strictly (as was attempted in the other thread that was closed due to an, um, episode of sorts) reflects poorly on the forum or United
Sounds good. They're false though.
What isn't getting as much pushback are the following misguided opinions stated as fact:
1. Anything other than banishment from United is a wider statement around DV in society
2. Anyone for his return doesn't care about DV
3. Having a separate conversation about Greenwood and football strictly (as was attempted in the other thread that was closed due to an, um, episode of sorts) reflects poorly on the forum or United
Sounds good. They're false though.
I think he's regaining some of his lost weight which is helping him as the season wears on. Getafe are however not helping his cause given the level of quality he is surrounded by and some of the manager's tactical choices. His confidence is definitely improving and one gets the impression he would benefit greatly from being surrounded by better players.