Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

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Given the police statement when the CPS dropped the case and the fact Greenwood has been shipped, it seems apparent that the 'new evidence', whatever it was, did not clear him.
The narrative remains that it was " In this case a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction " In other words, the case was stopped because of the combination of factors did not meet their legal tests for prosecution.

It seems to me their fair and reseaonable, independent, and objective assessments did not include any relative weight on each factors contribution to the decision, that you made up yourself.
 

Redlambs

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The original arrest was never from her complaint anyway. If he did something, and she is happy to move on with her life with him, and so are her parents, then so am I.
So, in your version of events, she got angry and released some sex game audio/pictures and then lied to the police initially and then coerced him into breaking bail to get pregnant?

I mean, surely then she should be in trouble for false rape claims no?
 

SirScholes

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I think my parents would have killed me. I’m not sure who would have got to me first. I’m not sure who I’d have preferred but I’d probably still be feeling it if I survived 21 years later.
And if I was accused and was innocent, probably wouldn't be the first lass I propose to
 

Revan

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Agreed. He was roughly Januzaj level and clearly didn't have the right attitude to go further than that anyway. No loss.
He was significantly better than Januzaj, to be fair. Scored 17 goals in his first season, 12 in his second and 6 by January when the shit happened. He was on course for becoming a world-class player, and IMO if he was not a cnut, he would have been playing regularly in the right, and we would not have needed to waste a 100m euros in Antony.
 

Nickelodeon

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I think we have to recognize that the club has been in a unique and complex position. Any decision taken will be scrutinized and ultimately blamed on the club for being too slow or downright wrong. We're the club with the most media attention who are investigating a claim which no longer had any legal basis, where details can't be made public, the alleged victim is still with the same person along with a baby and where we can't categorically fire him as well. I struggle to think of a more complex situation another club has had to deal with. Whether the decision is taken now or was taken a month back, how does it matter as long as its the correct one? Its not like Greenwood was playing for us in that period. I recognize and appreciate the Athletic and Adam Crafton's journalism and genuinely believe that the report actually saved us from ourselves. Had we actually gone ahead with the decision to reintegrate, it would have to be taken back in a similar manner to the Super League. However, at this point, I see Athletic completely milking their "moral victory" and kicking the club further just for the sake of it.

I completely agree that Greenwood should never play for us. However, this issue needs to bring up a bigger precedent as to how club deal with players accused of major felonies like domestic or sexual violence. As we discuss this, there are players who are still engaged in trials for sexual violence who are still playing for their clubs. But those can't be mentioned because of legal reasons. And thus, when they will get away scot free, they will continue to play with no outrage whatsoever. On the flip side, players can't and probably shouldn't have their careers stopped on the basis of unproven allegations since that in itself can lead to a slippery slope. I think more discussion needs to happen on what is best way clubs should approach such cases. At this point, because of our on-pitch issues, people are just happy to lay into our owners more despite them ultimately making the right call.
 

StorDienst

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Exactly. His girlfriend wants to move on with him but the public moral police don't like that. What they are doing is equal to this: little girl, you are not mature enough and we want to protect you by destroying your man.

It is an absurd world.
Absolutely this. Its so annoying how public always judges with moral standards that they themselves are not able to hold.
 

Nickelodeon

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Let he (her) without sin cast the first stone! The moral high ground is getting mighty overcrowded .Have none of you been 19 and done things you maybe regretted?
Where do you draw the line between violent abuse and "stuff you regret"?
 

Nogbadthebad

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Seems to be everyone should be in agreement really.

If, like me, you believe in the values the club is supposed to represent, then he should never play for the club again.

If you think he deserves a chance and should have a career in football, you should still agree with this, because the one thing he will never get in this country, with our media, is a chance to start afresh. It simply is not going to happen.

I would think the Saudi League, away from it all, would be perfect for him.
 

Raven

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Not sure about that, he'd be our best attacker by a distance by now.
Maybe. I was thoroughly unimpressed with him outside of the lock down period and a 2 month period at the end of the following season. Miles too selfish and lacked any sense of team play.
 

Doracle

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Does anyone really think that even in the unlikely event we find a UK club he would move to that we would lend or sell him there (barring a ludicrously high fee)? The most likely outcome is a loan overseas followed by a sale if/when his value climbs a bit.
I think his career is done in this country for now. I don’t think any club could sign him without fan uproar, references to it doing a disservice to their women’s team etc (see the Goodwillie situation - and I have a lot more sympathy for him than Greenwood).

We won’t be getting any fee for him in my view. It will be a free transfer or loan (possibly we might get some of his wages paid if the latter).
 

Valencia's Left Foot

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Exactly. His girlfriend wants to move on with him but the public moral police don't like that. What they are doing is equal to this: little girl, you are not mature enough and we want to protect you by destroying your man.

It is an absurd world.
This. In their overzealous rush to bluntly defend all women, they seem to have willfully disregarded the wishes and wellbeing of the woman that matters most in this instance.
 

Laurencio

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So, in your version of events, she got angry and released some sex game audio/pictures and then lied to the police initially and then coerced him into breaking bail to get pregnant?

I mean, surely then she should be in trouble for false rape claims no?
Sounds like a psychopath. This is moving uncomfortably close to libel.
 

Slevs

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Agreed. He was roughly Januzaj level and clearly didn't have the right attitude to go further than that anyway. No loss.
Christ. The boy was generational. Left foot, right foot, movement, speed. Calling him Januzaj level is insulting
 

L1nk

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Exactly. His girlfriend wants to move on with him but the public moral police don't like that. What they are doing is equal to this: little girl, you are not mature enough and we want to protect you by destroying your man.

It is an absurd world.
What’s absurd is you, as an adult, clearly not understanding abuse and situations surrounding it.

‘His girlfriend wants to move on with him’

Situations like this are way more complex and nuanced than this. Maybe she does maybe she doesn’t, you cannot say either way. However what we can say is this..

When this all came out the girls parents practically sided with Greenwood, I remember everybody at the time wondering wtf was going on when they clearly didn’t seem very supportive of her daughter, her father seemed more interested in money

During the investigation Greenwood broke bail conditions multiple times to speak to her and visit her. Apparently buying her designer clothes and doing all sorts of nice things for her. Timelines matching up this is when she got pregnant and then all of a sudden the key witness doesn’t want to testify anymore, wow what a coincidence.

A high percentage of abuse victims stay with their partner for years afterwards, it’s not just a case of oh the girl just wants to move on.
 

Laurencio

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This. In their overzealous rush to bluntly defend all women, they seem to have willfully disregarded the wishes and wellbeing of the woman that matters most in this instance.
How does sacking an employee at the club in any way invalidate her right to make her own decisions?
 

tomaldinho1

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Exactly. His girlfriend wants to move on with him but the public moral police don't like that. What they are doing is equal to this: little girl, you are not mature enough and we want to protect you by destroying your man.

It is an absurd world.
This is a strange take, I will give you that.

The equivalent would surely be: "young woman, you have either lied to the police about an incredibly serious matter or been coerced by a domestic abuser/sexual assaulter to withdraw your accusation."
 

evil_geko

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Let he (her) without sin cast the first stone! The moral high ground is getting mighty overcrowded .Have none of you been 19 and done things you maybe regretted?
Even at much younger age than 19 one should know not to beat partner or anyone for that matter. And no, you don't need moral high ground for that, you just have to be a decent person.
 

Pickle85

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The 'who here is perfect' argument is uncomfortable close to 'boys will be boys'. He was accused of violent sexual crime; I would hope that 99.9% of posters here didn't do anything resembling this, 'folly of youth' or not.
 

Revan

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Christ. The boy was generational. Left foot, right foot, movement, speed. Calling him Januzaj level is insulting
I know that's not the main topic, but what the heck generational means? The top 100 players of their generation?

This word started as some player who is better than world class (world class is undefined itself, but most people mean someone who is very good, who will make almost every team, so maybe top 20-30 players), essentially to separate the likes of Messi and Ronaldo (both generational players) from the likes of Zlatan and Lewandowski (world class players).

Now it seems to have lost all meaning, and any player with a bit of talent is called generational.

No, Greenwood was not generational. Neither is Sancho. Or Foden. Or Rooney. Or Kane.

The only UK generational players have been Best and Charlton.

Rant over.

NB: As I said in my previous post, he was comfortably better than Januzaj, and had potential to become a world class player. I think he might have become better than Rashford, and had some chance of reaching Rooney level.
 

Wilt

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He’s very lucky she dropped the charges, else most likely he’d be in prison by now.

Greenwood is being given a second chance ….but not with Utd, he’s done enough damage to the club.

Good riddance.
 

Wumminator

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The 'who here is perfect' argument is uncomfortable close to 'boys will be boys'. He was accused of violent sexual crime; I would hope that 99.9% of posters here didn't do anything resembling this, 'folly of youth' or not.
It is an excuse that is absolutely vile and anyone who says it is excusing sexual abuse.
 

Denis79

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What would have been funny is if Greenwood were allowed to come back and play. Wonder how some of his defenders would have reacted if things didn't go well.
Many, most would turn on him in an instant. Many of his defenders actually believe he would somehow train a month or two and then by christmas start banging in goals, it's laughable.
 

Barry Red

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Let's cut to the chase here. Whatever he did or didn't do, the fact remains that a sizeable number of interested and influential people have made it clear enough that if the club keep him then there will be adverse consequences and thus has obviously been taken on board by the powers that be.

Unfortunately the club's lengthy and extremely carefully drafted statement says nothing other than he is never going to be playing for United again. I rather suspected that this sad situation would only end in one of two ways... firstly the club could say that this whole situation warrants the club cancelling his contract and essentially sacking him outright, but given the fact that he has not been found guilty in a court of law that option is legally questionable. Secondly the club could buy out his contract (reputedly he is salaried at 75K a week, but who knows?), write him a cheque and say goodbye - a lot of money, true, but seen in the finances of a massive football club it's not such a lot. I discounted the possibility of him being kept as a contracted United player, and also being loaned out due to the negative reaction that would follow from sponsors, supporters and outraged media celebrities such as Rachel Riley.

But the club haven't said what they are going to do. They had an opportunity here to be seem to be making a clear statement of intent and show the world where they stand but in true United fashion they bottled it.
 
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What are you on about? Do you really think that the complainant wasn't a key witness who withdrew their cooperation? If it wasn't the prosecution wouldn't have been withdrawn. Obviously.
I'm ON about the fact the CPS statement has nothing you has just claimed. It very clearly says key witnesses which isn't singular, as well as new evidence which you willfully skip over because it doesn't suit what your prefer to believe about the matter. I also love how the likes of you want us to believe the CPS 'can't prosecute you' even without the witness in chief, if the evidence against the defendant is as overwhelming as some of you would have us believe. As if they didn't already arrest him and charge him without the urging input of the victim of his alleged crimes.
 

Mr Pigeon

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Sorry folks. I was going to post another opinion about this situation but when I was 15 I got drunk down the park with my mates and pissed in a lake beside some swans, so I'm not allowed to say anything now.
 

Pearson

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This is a strange take, I will give you that.

The equivalent would surely be: "young woman, you have either lied to the police about an incredibly serious matter or been coerced by a domestic abuser/sexual assaulter to withdraw your accusation."
No. I did not mean to say that. That is your take.

Greenwood admitted his mistake, and I am not denying that because that is a fact.

All the charges are dropped and Greenwood's football career needs not to be ended at United because I believe in the second chance even for criminals and MG is not a criminal.

The girl decided to stay with MG. That is a fact too. All the judgement from the course of mob has forgotten that and only want to impose their ruling on them.
 

Norman Brownbutter

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You have your mind made up. There’s little point offering explanations as it will just wind you up.

I’m fine with open-minded discussion about this, and I’m unsure whether he is guilty or not. I am interested in the case and would like to read more opinions and get more information before deciding.
You aren't winding anyone up, mate. In fact, Id say the opposite, as its hard to take you seriously with the stuff you've come out with to try to explain away what is clear as day to anyone else with eyes and ears. It is quite possibly the weirdest hill to die on. But you have fun up there.