Hope you're never on a jury
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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Seems more like a recourse to help him find another club somewhere.
Here's why
Arnold: "The victim wanted to drop the case and we consulted with her family who wished for him to come back"
The victims family: "No they didn't and no we didn't"
= more of a shitstorm
Some of the comments on here are a bit “These days you get arrested and thrown in jail if you say you’re English, don’t you?”
Indeed.
Reading the statement again (numerous times now) I am taking this line of thinking as well. - but it mustn't have been criminal otherwise new charges would have been brought you'd think
OMG! SOCIAL MEDIA! MOB RULE!
No it's pragmatism and understanding that some club, most likely based in a country with lower opinion of women will take a punt on him.
Ideally no club will, but that's not realistic.
Luckily this wasn't a jury case and I wasnt tasked with finding him guilty or innocent. I didnt want him to play for united again based on what was public. The two aren't even remotely related.Hope you're never on a jury
I'm now completely confused because of uniteds statement.
The mental gymnastics here just making sure every extreme stands is the right one.
It’s either the police and club are wrong and letting victims down or Manchester United got pressured to appease people on a moral crusade.
This is the first time I’m allowing myself to have any interest in what individual footballers do outside of the football pitch but I guess it’s the new reality we all live in.
Does not bother me what actions the club is taking because I believe he should have been fired the moment the club knew he was embattled. The fact they dragged this on and allowed the circus to find its way into the club, I call this decision now cowardly because I believe the club hold a different view to the general public and won’t be honest with it.
We still have an unresolved issue that is going to need further actioning. Like almost everyone I believe the tape depicted a deplorable action but I refuse to accept MG should be destroyed or dehumanised. What happens to him/partner matters more to me. This moral crusade foolishness does not really interest me, not now or ever.
It’s either the police and club are wrong and letting victims down or Manchester United got pressured to appease people on a moral crusade.
This is the first time I’m allowing myself to have any interest in what individual footballers do outside of the football pitch but I guess it’s the new reality we all live in.
Does not bother me what actions the club is taking because I believe he should have been fired the moment the club knew he was embattled. The fact they dragged this on and allowed the circus to find its way into the club, I call this decision now cowardly because I believe the club hold a different view to the general public and won’t be honest with it.
We still have an unresolved issue that is going to need further actioning. Like almost everyone I believe the tape depicted a deplorable action but I refuse to accept MG should be destroyed or dehumanised. What happens to him/partner matters more to me. This moral crusade foolishness does not really interest me, not now or ever.
To repeat, again, whatever Greenwood is holding his hands up to must be non-criminal, as the club would have to share that info with the Police if it was and he most definitely would not be holding his hands up to it. Presumably, it’s something morally reprehensible but not criminal.
Just as he was not proven innocent in a court of law. Innocent until proven guilty of course is something that should be upheld. The problem is the court of public opinion is a tricky thing to navigate...
Had no pictures/audio surfaced and it was just an accusation that was either dropped or found not guilty of then people would be more willing to give the guy a chance i'm sure, the problem is how do you navigate the release of those pictures and the audio, those things are easily accessible to the public currently and they paint a pretty grim picture. People can see them with their own eyes and hear it with their own ears, it's not just one persons word against another, there's audio recorded evidence that the crimes he's been accused of might be based in reality, and not just an accusation, it's a lot harder to bury your head in the sand once you've heard it.
Manchester United's statement say he didn't commit the crimes he was accused of but that he certainly made mistakes, so what are the mistakes? Greenwood says the charges were dropped but it's not quite the case either. If there is sufficient evidence that suggests Greenwood is innocent then the only way people would accept his return is to present that evidence to counter the already available leaked evidence that puts him in an extremely bad light.
I have no sympathy for Greenwood in this situation, neither do I have any for the club (I did originally) because they've handled it extremely poorly. Nobody here is ruining the life of Mason Greenwood, he did that himself by putting himself in a position to ruin his own life, regardless of the full conclusions there's no way those pictures and that audio don't paint a picture of something bad happening in their relationship, your average everyday person doesn't do that shit and has it in the public eye for everyone to see it too. This is his own doing, not the publics, not the fans and not Manchester United's, he has nobody but himself to blame that his actions are bringing about consequences now. He will go on to have a career elsewhere and he will probably still end up being a good footballer who will earn a lot of money, but it's not Manchester United's burden to reform this guy, who by all accounts seemed to have a pretty terrible attitude before all of this came out, there were multiple reports of his attitude behind the scenes at the club too.
I do not blame the fans for not wanting him back, why is it on us whether his life is ruined or not? It's not our choice to make and we didn't mess up his life for him, he did it fine all on his own.
It's done now, people need to move on and stop letting the life of a footballer that you don't know personally, who hasn't got a clue who any of you are, and is not the face and epitome of Manchester United get you all so riled up.
Technically perhaps, and I too believe in it hence I don't rule out the possibility of full or partially falsified evidence in this Greenwood case. But we all know in the real world opinions do not conform to technicalities, and that there are cases where the presumption of innocence has led to a failure of justice.
In the end, it's not really whether Greenwood is truly innocent or not that bothers the club. Arnold basically admitted to releasing an opinion based on incomplete evidence. Rather, it is the baggage that this whole saga brings that must be got rid of.
So you are again applying some mental gymnastic.
I will make it very simple. Do you associate with people that do things you don't like and if you don't, do you go to random people and tell them that they shouldn't associate with these people?
Also unless some posters are in direct contact with Greenwood and in a position to directely make him do or not do things, no one legislated on his relationsihip. People may have an opinion but it has nothing to do with legislating his relalionship.
All that to say that my moral lines are mine, they have nothing to do with yours and I do not have to extend or impose them universally. Greenwood is a free man, he can play for whoever he wants but I wouldn't like if it was United because I care about United and don't care about other clubs.
I am seeing the pic with the busted lip for the first time and I will say what I always do, say stuff as I think it is, direct, in no hidden way.
For me the audio is enough evidence anyway. This pic however seems very strange. A busted lip doesn’t cause so much blood. This/the amount of blood almost looks like someone was shot in the head/chest with a gun.
And if we „only“ had that pic there would be enough doubts if he has done this. But we do have the audio with his voice which is the main difference to other cases where the accused continued to play / are still playing.
For me the audio is enough evidence anyway. This pic however seems very strange. A busted lip doesn’t cause so much blood. This/the amount of blood almost looks like someone was shot in the head/chest with a gun.
And if we „only“ had that pic there would be enough doubts if he has done this. But we do have the audio with his voice which is the main difference to other cases where the accused continued to play / are still playing.
The club was going to get attacked regardless.
Are we going to sell him then before the end of the window or do we just terminate his contract and let him go somewhere for free?
Incredible
Feck me, the tripe people come out with to hide their true thoughts
Bizarre, if the club believe that he is innocent then some convincing evidence must exist to support that, so why not reveal it? Then he can clear his name and united get what they clearly want which is to keep him. It’s obvious this evidence doesn’t exist or they would release it or find a way to leak it. Those idiot running the show are getting slaughtered for this and would happily leak this information to save their own reputation if it existed.
Important not to conflate these two things, as they're very different.
The club have said they believe he didn't commit the crime. All the CPS said was that there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction.
You could disbelieve the club (i.e. think Greenwood is guilty) without in any way doubting the CPS (i.e. agree that without witness co-operation a conviction was unlikely to happen and there was little point proceeding).
My guess from that statement is he behaved like an arsehole but its quite clear he didn't do anything illegal, in which case mob justice has wrecked his career and lost us a huge talent.
Now we need to get him shipped off to Saudi for the best possible amount, and do it in time to buy a player in. It was unlikely he would be the same player who last trained almost 2 years ago anyway.
Now we need to get him shipped off to Saudi for the best possible amount, and do it in time to buy a player in. It was unlikely he would be the same player who last trained almost 2 years ago anyway.
I wonder what salary he could command in Saudi
Because it either doesn't exist or it makes her look bad.
Either way, still no road back for Greenwood.
This was the most likely outcome. Legally, he's done nothing wrong if the charges have been dropped, but the evidence everyone saw at the time was pretty nasty. For the club to bring him back into the squad would create all sorts of problems for stakeholders with a legitimate interest, including the players (men and women), sponsors and a section of the fans.
I have some sympathy with the club: some fan groups will claim a right to be consulted, but it's a legal contractual process and the club is bound by that as much as it is with any other workplace contractual relationship. It can't be decided based on social media postings and vocal interest groups, or on celebrities saying they'll stop supporting the club if he were to return, much as their effects will be on the minds of the club management. They have to recognise in their response that he's never been charged and refer to "alleged" actions and victim, while also recognising that most people don't see it that way. In the statement they just navigate a way around that as best they can.
It's a waste of a great talent, but he's not the first to throw away a promising career through behaviour off the pitch. I think he could find it difficult to find a club who'll pick him up.
I have some sympathy with the club: some fan groups will claim a right to be consulted, but it's a legal contractual process and the club is bound by that as much as it is with any other workplace contractual relationship. It can't be decided based on social media postings and vocal interest groups, or on celebrities saying they'll stop supporting the club if he were to return, much as their effects will be on the minds of the club management. They have to recognise in their response that he's never been charged and refer to "alleged" actions and victim, while also recognising that most people don't see it that way. In the statement they just navigate a way around that as best they can.
It's a waste of a great talent, but he's not the first to throw away a promising career through behaviour off the pitch. I think he could find it difficult to find a club who'll pick him up.
Pragmatism is not moral/ethic based. It's based on practical considerations. E.g. I didn't mind him back because we are short at RW. And so on.
You can decide to not want him at United for whatever reason you want, but you can't say it's ethical and then withhold opinion on his potential employment elsewhere.
And please, let's not pretend as if he can't play in the UK because the society has such a high opinion of women. Again, gestures wildly towards the Emirates. Plus, these lower level societies don't have women worth protecting?
If Manchester City employed MG I would expect Women's Aid to be protesting, because they are operating on ethical/moral grounds (which I may disagree with but understand and respect)
Would they really have said it if it didn't exist? Ie point blank lie?
Yeah, if Ched Evans can have multiple clubs (well, at least 4 that we know of) lining up to sign him after not playing for 4 years, it’s a safe bet that Greenwood will have many many more than that.
Don't know what im more pissed off about, that the club is lacking principles or that twitter whingeing won again. However you feel good or bad there is no praise for the club in this it stinks of indecisiveness and cowardice, leadership is supposed to mean something if you make a decision you stick to it come hell or highwater.
They were absolutely going to try and bring him back into the first team squad until wider public opinion intervened. Imagine having to be his team-mate. A cloud lifted.
That maybe the case, but not all crimes are necessarily prosecuted so it still could be either
Something I still don't fully understand is that this first came to light in Feb 2022 (I think), apparently the GF asked the police to drop the case in Apr 2022, the police obviously didn't do that but he wasn't charged until Oct 2022 and the case was then dropped in Feb 2023, so what happened between Apr and Oct 2022, if she wanted the charges dropped she wasn't going to testify, they must have known that - something odd going on here to me but I'be no idea what!
Again with the "mob justice" tripe.
Greenwood has told you he set this all off with "mistakes". Arnold has fanned the flames with awful statements and attempting to bus the women. There is unrefuted evidence that puts someone in incredibly bad light at least.
But yeah, it's people on the internet who are the bad guys
To be fair, Ronaldo was arguably worse. No tape, but there was his statement given to the police where he pretty much unambiguously admitted that he did it.
I do not think that United (be it at the tape when there was media publicity, considering that it happened while he was our player, or when we resigned it) or Real (considering that he was playing for them) have a shit.
Fans and pundits (Gary i know everything Neville) bashing the club for taking too long to make decision but this time i think that club did everything by the book.
It is specific case (morally and legally) with Greenwood also being a huge asset to this club. I am glad that they took time to deal with it and that they opened door for all options.
It is never good to have an impulsive leader.
It is specific case (morally and legally) with Greenwood also being a huge asset to this club. I am glad that they took time to deal with it and that they opened door for all options.
It is never good to have an impulsive leader.
It’s a well worked PR strategy to leak a story and guage reaction before making a final decision.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the original decision was leaked purposefully to The Athletic to get an idea of how people would respond.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the original decision was leaked purposefully to The Athletic to get an idea of how people would respond.
If somehow she’s lied or embellished the story and there was evidence of that then some selfish cnut at the club would have leaked it. Agree definitely no way back, there never was- too much attention at this club for this.
Unless Saudi come in then who is going to buy him? And Mason will have to agree to terminating his contract surely, he is sat on £75 k per wk here, I can't see him getting close to that in Europe for a while at least.
I can honestly see us loaning him out to an average European club, and us paying 80 % of his wages.
Obviously the club is saying they believe he's innocent, they were planning to reintegrate him until this shitstorm kicked off. Saying anything other than that they think he's innocent would be one of the few things that could make the club look any worse right now.
Judging by the response to the Mendy verdict, a lot of Footballer’s would be very sympathetic to Greenwood’s situation.
Some proper weirdos in here.