Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Wibble]

That's a pretty interesting theory actually, it would fit in with the statement the club made as well.

Almost the sort of interesting theory a lawyer might suggest would be the only vaguely plausible explanation the retrofits the evidence? But I wouldn't be so cynical.

 

[Wibble]

It’s weird. The people who were adamant that Greenwood needs to go regardless of any club investigation that seemingly is unimportant, got the outcome they wanted but are still whining that it isn’t enough. Because apparently United is a random twitter account that makes it’s mind up based on whims and fancies.

I do agree that it’s a bizarre statement - but not because it empowers abusers or some bullshit like that. The decision is strong enough a signal against that, as is the rest of the statements. It’s bizarre because going purely by it, it seems Greenwood should not have been let go but was due to media pressure. If anything her still criticising them despite the decision shows exactly why they came to this incoherent conclusion.

It is a bizarre statement because it is fairly obviously a negotiated statement between multiple lawyers with different priorities with the intention of producing something all sides can live with no matter who bad the overall optic is. It does empower abusers because it admits errors (no shit sherlock) while claiming innocence (and not just criminally, in effect) but worse of all it smells of bullshit from all directions. Meaningless platitudes, contradictory statements and a general air of insincerity.

 

[frostbite]

It is a bizarre statement because it is fairly obviously a negotiated statement between multiple lawyers with different priorities with the intention of producing something all sides can live with no matter who bad the overall optic is. It does empower abusers because it admits errors (no shit sherlock) while claiming innocence (and not just criminally, in effect) but worse of all it smells of bullshit from all directions. Meaningless platitudes, contradictory statements and a general air of insincerity.

The alt statement (simplified):

We wanted to keep him because he is an asset, but it is not possible because too many people are upset. But hey, the guy is innocent, pay us 70 million and he is yours!

 

[Lyng]

Although the club could clearly have handled this entire episode better, Im struggling to understand what exactly the likes of Rachel Riley want at this point - they are already letting Greenwood go, despite internal investigation showing he's not commited any crime.

If that's not enough, then what is?!

She wants her time in the sun. Its downright disgusting how she (and to some extent the Athletic journalist) are making this all about themselves. The statement was bad yes, but Greenwood is leaving so surely we can all move on now.

 

[padzilla]

I do think there's a huge argument for Arnold to have to consider his position, the handling of the Greenwood case being one of several examples of poor leadership so far.

 

[Wibble]

She wants her time in the sun. Its downright disgusting how she (and to some extent the Athletic journalist) are making this all about themselves. The statement was bad yes, but Greenwood is leaving so surely we can all move on now.

How dare a female United fan have an opinion.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Although the club could clearly have handled this entire episode better, Im struggling to understand what exactly the likes of Rachel Riley want at this point - they are already letting Greenwood go, despite internal investigation showing he's not commited any crime.

If that's not enough, then what is?!

I’m not a massive Riley fan at all, but the stick she is getting is bizarre. She’s sharing an opinion that has been mentioned on this forum multiple times since the statement.

1) United’s statement is a weirdly worded one, and could have been done better
2) It’s the right decision, but it’s 1 year too late. We have lost some good name during this process, and the buck stops with the likes of Arnold.

We’re talking about the statement on this forum. Why can’t she? She has ever right to be pissed at the administration here, because some of us on here are just as pissed with them. Not specifying you here, but the hate she’s getting for sharing her views on it is vile, and I’m hoping it doesn’t have a mysoginistic tinkle to it.

Riley had the platform and GUTS to speak out as a UNITED FAN like many of us who had the same feelings , unlike the other pundits like Neville that has come out with ''the right decision'' AFTER the statement he was leaving.... the type of people who are getting mad at her on here rather than the people behind this mess justity we have the worst social media fanbase in the world.

This. I said this a week ago, but this saga has lead me to look at a lot of people differently on this forum. I can’t remember what thread it was, but there were dozens of people who were heavily on MG’s side here a few months ago.

why didn't she come out with these same statements and disgust when Bissouma got arrested and accused of assault??

Why didn’t any of us publicly say this? Because we aren’t Brighton fans. We spoke about it on this forum. She may have spoken about it in a private setting too. She’s damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t. She gets villanised on this forum for speaking out, and then she’ll get brought up on the fact she didn’t speak out for Bissouma. The MG story had double the significance to it - it’s a player at a football club she clearly loves, and we have openly heard audio of a despicable, power-throthing human. What makes this decision crazy is that we clearly delayed the decision/considered to bring him back just because of his quality. If he was a mediocre player, we would never have entertained bringing him back.

She wants her time in the sun. Its downright disgusting how she (and to some extent the Athletic journalist) are making this all about themselves. The statement was bad yes, but Greenwood is leaving so surely we can all move on now.

She’s posted on social media, and media outlets are putting a big magnifying glass on her statements. It’s the media who are putting “her time in the sun”. Why are you blaming her here?

I disagree with her “green lighting” comments, although I can see where she’s come from. Even though I hate the use of the word gaslighting, she’s 100% right. The club saying he didn’t do what he did but we’ll sack him anyway has lead to people question the truth. The evidence of that is on this forum. There is no rationale explanation for that audio. People keep saying role play, if it was that it would have been nipped in the bud very early.

 

[Slevs]

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I have a question, doesn't Crafton himself know less than the club? yet he made gigantic statements?

Why is he milking this story now? The club made the right decision and decided to part ways with the player.

Because he's a sports journalist and needs clicks, obviously. Milk a story as much as possible then move on to the next possible story that would generate more clicks. Its their job.

 

[Drifter]

Rachel Riley can...... What she did to demonize Corbyn as a racist is something I will never forgive

 

[Phil Jones Face]

She wants her time in the sun. Its downright disgusting how she (and to some extent the Athletic journalist) are making this all about themselves. The statement was bad yes, but Greenwood is leaving so surely we can all move on now.

This line of thought (or lack thereof) is bemusing.

I think we can all agree the club is run horribly, no? And I think we can all agree that regardless of whether we wanted Mason to stay or not, the club handled the fallout and resolution appallingly, too. Now, what the journalists (as is their job) and the Rachel (as a fan) are doing is shining a light on this. I'd rather they expose the clubs inner machinations and inept management so a) if we have another crisis in the future, the management handle it better and b) expose the management for being inept cretins who shouldn't be at our club.

Or the alternative is, pretend nothing happened here, that the management acted superbly throughout and move on without ever mentioning it again.

 

[Wibble]

She does not need to. But she she is talking crap. She is self indulgent and using this case for her own ends. She is not a legal expert and should not be using her so called celebrity to hold the club to ransom.

If she feels that strongly, why she does not do some representation for women's refuge or other abuse charities?

Why does she have to have a "need" that you approve of? She is a United fan and even if she wasn't she is entitled to an opinion. Doubly so when it is such a reasonable opinion.

Holding the club to ransom? Really? Get a grip.

And it is great to see some bloke from the internet telling women what they are and aren't allowed to do or how they are allowed protest. I'm guessing you don't see the inherent misogyny and irony in such a statement?

 

[Mainoldo]

Why does she have to have a "need" that you approve of? She is a United fan and even if she wasn't she is entitled to an opinion. Doubly so when it is such a reasonable opinion.

Holding the club to ransom? Really? Get a grip.

And it is great to see some bloke from the internet telling women what they are and aren't allowed to do or how they are allowed protest. I'm guessing you don't see the inherent misogyny and irony in such a statement?

You say this because you agree with her. If you didn’t agree with her you wouldn’t respond in her defence. It’s all swings and round abouts.

Now you critique another persons opinion and deciding misogyny is apparent because they fail to agree with her?

What is all this? Are you racist because you disagree with someone of a different ethnicity?

 

[justsomebloke]

You also had Barney Ronay of the same publication chastising the club for it's 'lack of moral leadership' it's fecking nuts.

We're a football club and a business. Of course we're going to look out for ourselves, why do we need to act as 'moral leaders'? We've already booted the alleged perpetrator out of our club following our own investigation, it ends there surely?

The Telegraph managed to cobble together a bunch of rent a quotes saying we should donate any fee we make on him to charity. Again insane.

The club has already seen tens of millions wiped off their asset which they've invested years into due to his behaviour, why should they voluntarily lose tens of millions more?

Yeah the club bumbled the investigation but they made the right decision in the end, why do they need dragging through the mud further?

I honestly think some of these journos are disappointed that they didn't get to write the articles they really wanted, which were going ballistic at the club for bringing MG back into the first team.

They deservedly get stick because they've handled the whole thing so badly they've managed to antagonise everyone, on all sides. What do you expect?

 

[gajender]

You say this because you agree with her. If you didn’t agree with her you wouldn’t respond in her defence. It’s all swings and round abouts.

Now you critique another persons opinion and deciding misogyny is apparent because they fail to agree with her?

What is all this? Are you racist because you disagree with someone of a different ethnicity?

I just read somewhere she recently recreated synchronised Ronaldo's goal celebration with 500 fans who collaborated as some sort of promotion during recent Women's World Cup that clearly at odds with her current stance if you really think about it .

Every body is well within their rights to have an opinion on this matter but some sort of consistency or self reflection from those who are highly vocal wouldn't go amiss either .

 

[Wibble]

You say this because you agree with her. If you didn’t agree with her you wouldn’t respond in her defence. It’s all swings and round abouts.

Don't be silly. The people citicising aren't doing so because she has an opinion but one they either disagree with or (more bizarrely) because they don't think a (female?) celebrity has the right to comment on a club she supports.

Now you critique another persons opinion and deciding misogyny is apparent because they fail to agree with her?

No. because they are tryingto dictate how a woman reacts to such things e.g. support a women's refuge instead of making a public statement. I've never seen any such suggestion when a man has an opinion.

What is all this? Are you racist because you disagree with someone of a different ethnicity?

Not but someone might be behaving in a racist way if the disagreement is, or gives the appearance of being, based on difference in ethnicity. Or try to dictate how a person of colour may best behave e.g. tell them they should donate to a [insert ethnicity] DV charity rather than just complaining about the club they support.

 

[Jippy]

You say this because you agree with her. If you didn’t agree with her you wouldn’t respond in her defence. It’s all swings and round abouts.

Now you critique another persons opinion and deciding misogyny is apparent because they fail to agree with her?

What is all this? Are you racist because you disagree with someone of a different ethnicity?

Yep no hint of sexism in moaning that she comments on men's football and telling her to speak out on women's refuges instead.

 

[padzilla]

Is there anyone who actually believes Arnold's done a good job?

 

[Mainoldo]

Yep no hint of sexism in moaning that she comments on men's football and telling her to speak out on women's refuges instead.

So now they are moaning that a woman is committing on men’s football? Don’t twist the narrative with selective words. They probably disagree with how she choice to decide her outrage. They have a right to do that without it being sexism.

What’s wrong with speaking on women’s refuge.

 

[Lyng]

How dare a female United fan have an opinion.

This is a downright insulting comment. Especially from a member of staff this is very dissapointing.
I want to hear the opinion of United fans. If you look at my statements throuout this you would see that I want Greenwood gone and a big part of that for me was that our womens team where not comfortable with him in the club.
My issue is with Rachel, not because she is a woman but because of her past behaviour.
There was nothing misogynistic about my post yet you jumped right there instead of actual engaging with it.

 

[Laurencio]

I think Rachel Riley has used her privliged position to voice a concern a lot of fans had - both as a fan and a supporter of some of the charities that have spoken out.

A lot of blame going around to Crafton, Riley, "white knights", the alleged victim etc. While in truth it is very simple - Mason put himself in a situation where he was recorded saying words and behaving in a way that put his own and the club's reputation in disrepute. It is entirely Mason's own fault.

 

[padzilla]

Fascinating that so many men are quick to criticise Rachel Riley for speaking out on this issue. It's not hard to see why that is.

 

[Lyng]

She’s posted on social media, and media outlets are putting a big magnifying glass on her statements. It’s the media who are putting “her time in the sun”. Why are you blaming her here?

I disagree with her “green lighting” comments, although I can see where she’s come from. Even though I hate the use of the word gaslighting, she’s 100% right. The club saying he didn’t do what he did but we’ll sack him anyway has lead to people question the truth. The evidence of that is on this forum. There is no rationale explanation for that audio. People keep saying role play, if it was that it would have been nipped in the bud very early.

Because of the way she has used her social media platform before. She knows exactly what she is doing.
I want women to speak about out about this and I was happy with her first reaction, but why keep it up if not to call attention to herself. I also dont understand why the media is focusing on her, instead of female players, former abuse victims etc.
Highlighting a highly divisive personality like Riley only adds fuel to the "Greenwood camp", much like the terrible statement by Arnold actually.
If the focus was on different prominant women it could help moving the focus where it should be: making sure we prevent these kinds of things in the future, how can clubs educate these young footballers better and most importantly: how can we protect and help women.

 

[Kostov]

She wants her time in the sun. Its downright disgusting how she (and to some extent the Athletic journalist) are making this all about themselves. The statement was bad yes, but Greenwood is leaving so surely we can all move on now.

Is she saying anything about the Antony case?

 

[arnie_ni]

Rachel Riley still not happy after threatening to ‘abandon’ Utd if she didn’t get the outcome she wanted…

BBC - Rachel Riley now accuses Man Utd of gaslighting

Nothing she said is wrong

 

[saivet]

I’ve already stated my views on Crafton/The Athletic but in the very post you quote I say I’m perfectly fine with this reaction if it be dealt out evenly in other instances. Never in the history of football has a club been manipulated to deal with a player in this way & that is my issue.

Without doing any research Ched Evans and Goodwillie are two examples where outside media pressure influenced the way clubs dealt with a player. Greenwood's case is unique in what happened but United haven't and won't be the only football club that will be cornered to deal with a player in a certain way.

 

[Acquire Me]

The whole thing is very poor from the club. Time used. Many people involved in the internal investigation. Leaks. Everything went sideways.

The decision to not take him back is correct imo. In the end, that was the only option.

With that press release/open letter, it seems that we can’t really move on in a good way. The split opinions will continue. Selling him or loaning him can now be complicated.

Well, never a boring time with United. Always in the centre of attention.

 

[padzilla]

It's certainly convenient timing for the United board to have the fans debating this rather than the shit show of a squad we have with time running out in the transfer window.

 

[Wibble]

This is a downright insulting comment. Especially from a member of staff this is very dissapointing.
I want to hear the opinion of United fans. If you look at my statements throuout this you would see that I want Greenwood gone and a big part of that for me was that our womens team where not comfortable with him in the club.
My issue is with Rachel, not because she is a woman but because of her past behaviour.
There was nothing misogynistic about my post yet you jumped right there instead of actual engaging with it.

Maybe you should be more careful about making such comments about female United supporters, who have have perfectly valid opinions about how United have dealt with this. Especially when male celebrities aren't criticised for the same opinions.

 

[AbusementPark]

So how does this affect our FFP if we sell cheap or have to pay him off to release him? I think the club will look to loan him out to keep an asset on the books rather than a low ball sale and hope for the heat to die down sufficiently enough to maybe bring him back in the future.

 

[crossy1686]

Although the club could clearly have handled this entire episode better, Im struggling to understand what exactly the likes of Rachel Riley want at this point - they are already letting Greenwood go, despite internal investigation showing he's not commited any crime.

If that's not enough, then what is?!

I have no problem with her or anyone having their opinion, but I'm not sure when she became a spokesperson for everyone or why everything she says makes the BBC Sport front page. They're just making her a target for abuse for having an opinion.

 

[Wumminator]

It's certainly convenient timing for the United board to have the fans debating this rather than the shit show of a squad we have with time running out in the transfer window.

Yes. This is massively beneficial for the board to have national media attention and calls for resignations due to a hundred million pound asset sexually assaulting a woman. This is probably a way of hiding the fact we’ve only spend around 170 million in the transfer window.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Without doing any research Ched Evans and Goodwillie are two examples where outside media pressure influenced the way clubs dealt with a player. Greenwood's case is unique in what happened but United haven't and won't be the only football club that will be cornered to deal with a player in a certain way.

Without doing any research you cite 2 incidents where cases went to court [think Goodwillie was found not guilty from memory] versus one where the CPS felt there was no case for court & the club came out saying they felt he wasn’t guilty of the accusations but Apples work for Oranges on here.

As you say the MG situation is unique.

 

[padzilla]

I have no problem with her or anyone having their opinion, but I'm not sure when she became a spokesperson for everyone or why everything she says makes the BBC Sport front page. They're just making her a target for abuse for having an opinion.

It's pretty clear Arnold should go - especially after his latest cock-up.

 

[Hoboman]

Disgraceful situation clumsily handled by unqualified people

 

[clarkydaz]

Why are Crafton stories taken as Gospel? The club released a statement explaining the process they undertook considering all options and it makes sense. Why is Crafton more believable than the club?

Do you find club staff threatening to walk out interesting? They forgot to mention that in their statement

I've come to the conclusion over last 10 years any PR from this era of the club is damage limitation for their own incompetence, and give the impression everything is always hunky dory

 

[Doracle]

I disagree with her “green lighting” comments, although I can see where she’s come from. Even though I hate the use of the word gaslighting, she’s 100% right. The club saying he didn’t do what he did but we’ll sack him anyway has lead to people question the truth. The evidence of that is on this forum.

How do you know she is 100% right? Have you had access to the club’s internal investigation?

I think it’s highly unlikely that the club is lying about being satisfied he didn’t commit the offences. Riley has chosen to say that they aren’t telling the truth but has no way of knowing if she is right or wrong. If she is correct, then yes they are gaslighting us. If she isn’t, then they are correctly setting out the results of their investigation. She is prepared to harm the club reputation regardless.

 

[VP89]

Do you find club staff threatening to walk out interesting? They forgot to mention that in their statement

I've come to the conclusion over last 10 years any PR from this era of the club is damage limitation for their own incompetence, and give the impression everything is always hunky dory

The problem with your argument is that you have no idea on the context or the full picture, just like Crafton doesn't.

He got his hands on one document which has the reintegration planning if they were to opt with it.

There are likely tons of other documents outlining detail of other options.

 

[pratyush_utd]

The problem with your argument is that you have no idea on the context or the full picture, just like Crafton doesn't.

He got his hands on one document which has the reintegration planning if they were to opt with it.

There are likely tons of other documents outlining detail of other options.

Its typical hit and run journalism. Attacking club that it took time to carefully evaluate the situation and keep both interest of family and club in mind is quite unethical. But i see he is being praised as if his bully style reporting was so brave.

 

[clarkydaz]

The problem with your argument is that you have no idea on the context or the full picture, just like Crafton doesn't.

He got his hands on one document which has the reintegration planning if they were to opt with it.

There are likely tons of other documents outlining detail of other options.

Staff threatening to leave was one of the 'club options'? They were briefed get ready for his return

 

[VP89]

Staff threatening to leave was one of the 'club options'? They were briefed get ready for his return

Staff were threatening to walk out IF one of the options were actually pursued.

Why is that poor on the CEOs part? Did he go with it? No so you can put your pitch fork away.

And don't claim he was going to because you and Crafton know feck all about the options and depth they actually had on the table.