I think the slow mode causes this. Threads usually ebb and flow naturally and when the conversation/arguments dry up they drop off the front page and get forgotten about until something interesting happens and they get bumped. When all the conversations/arguments are happening really slooooooooowly, the thread never drops off. It’s gonna be a permanent feature, right at the top of the front page. Like a shite that won’t flush.
Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic
- Thread starter keithsingleton
- Start date
I actually think manutds investigation was tainted from the start. They have too much conflict of interest to have their findings be seen as neutral. They should have had something like 1 or 2 external firms look at all the evidence in the case and give their recommendation. They then would act based on that.
An opinion from an external third party would hold more weight than an internal investigation by manutd, no matter what the result was. It would also be easier to act upon. Furthermore, when we acted, we should have been quick and decisive...make the decision, explain the decision, be firm and stand by it.
Instead, we did the complete opposite of all that...we took forever to do this internal investigation that would never be accepted because of the bias and conflict of interest....then we tried to bring the player back in secret, with no explanations given for the evidence people saw. What happened to the tv interview ideas...etc. Even the staff inside the club just got told to begin the reintegration process without any explanation given to them. The whole thing was such a mess, they could not have handled worse.
This is like having a workmate be charged as a serial killer or something... evidence is found at his home etc...and then a few months down the road, you hear your company planning for his first day back. Its absolutely mind blowing how anyone thought this plan would work. I dont think they even bothered to run this idea by any managers in the company
The way we do things at manutd is soo bad and now we know how big a job sir alex was doing. He was the structure....not because he couldn't fit into one but because the glazers couldn't be bothered to set up a world class structure in the first place.
Also Getafe plays really shit football for a Spanish team so it’s mostly difficult for their forwards to get the ball.
They're 1 and 3 so they didn't say much.
Saw the game for him and he was quite decent considering he is coming back after long. He is very rusty and lacks strength, but I can see his minutes increasing as the talent is still there.It looks like he got on the field yesterday vs Sociedad for good 20 minutes. Anyone saw how he did? From youtube I see he had at least one shot on target.
If he ever plays for the club again it will be a dark day that shows we have no moral compass.
Excellent description I must say.
Feck Morals, lets concentrate more on redemption, education and reintegration. Its so easy to throw people on the dirt heap these days. Whats wrong with allowing a second chance in life if people have changed or want to change?
Sorry, but this makes no sense in this context. No one asking him to be flawless. That's not the bar being set.
Would you be comfortable of your nieces to have a relationship with him (provided they are both appropriate ages)? I would imagine the answer would be no (maybe not, I don't know you personally), but for arguments sake if you didn't, you wouldn't need to "grow up and develop some self-awareness".
Agreed.
Also regarding morals we are on thin grounds generally with people or footballers for that matter. You have women flying to arab countries to get shit upon them for money and players left right and centre go and represent questionable Saudi regimes that is known to abuse women rights. So I'm also more in the giving a second chance camp.
Superb post and spot on.
maybe the quote doesn’t fit the Greenwood scenario perfectly, but it’s still a very apt reflection on our society.
As for Greenwood, we all heard the tape and saw the images and I think we all expected him to go to prison or at the very least be convicted. However, he hasn’t been convicted of any crime. Maybe that’s a flaw in our justice system, but if we can’t rely on the justice system then what are we supposed to do?
Is it right that we as fans and the club as an employer have to make a decision that the courts aren’t prepared to?
Is the young woman involved the only one allowed to move on with her life because the case will never see trial?
Has he asked the fans for a second chance? It looks to me he hasn't even acknowledged he was in the wrong? But who cares as long as he's good at football right?
Look at the evidence and make a decision, like everyone does every single day.
Rio Ferdinand might understandably be a bit unhappy with John Terry, because he racially abused his brother, even though Terry was found not guilty. Suarez wasn't even charged, yet many people believe Evra. Most non-City fans think they're dodgy, even though no crimes have been proven in a court of law. We just had a World Cup in Qatar, and it's widely accepted that this happened because of bribery and corruption. That's illegal!
An extremely iconic piece of United history is the Cantona kung fu kick. That was a crime. He wasn't charged, but technically he could have been. He is therefore treated as innocent by the state, yet no one doubts that he did it. We saw it, it's on video! We don't need to rely on the justice system, because we have eyes.
The justice system isn't infallible so I'm not sure why it tracks that you're not allowed an opinion, because it didn't go to trial.
Everyone is entitled to make their own opinion on it, but they have to truthfully answer the question I posed with would they be comfortable with someone like a daughter being in a relationship with him now - with all the information available to you now. If the answer is yes, then fair enough. As someone who's about to have a daughter, it's a hard no for me, purely for the possibility he could be a risk.
Bingo. He's not in prison and people are insistent that his partner is totally happy, so there's the "redemption" if people would like to believe that. No return to United really required.
That’s brutal to watch what could have been, I like the intelligence he shows to not just whack it in the distant corner all the time.
Completely takes the keeper out by shooting near post
I agree with your general points, but Cantona was charged with assault, pleaded guilty, and was sentenced to 120 hours of community service, as well as getting a lengthy ban from football.
You're right, thanks, I completely misremembered that.
I understand your point, of course, but the facts of this case are clear, uncontested and without apparent mitigation. To have MG back would be to actively look the other way, which I think many would find uncomfortable. My sister had the crap kicked out of her by her intimate partner. Like most abusers, he terrified her out of providing evidence for the case and the cops dropped it - a bit like this case. Speaking personally, the idea of playing football with someone like that would not be appealing to me at all. The idea that he’s walking around a free man, most likely doing it to other women, is infuriating.
Also, given we have a women’s team, perhaps we should be sending a message that we don’t hire people who abuse women.
So while I agree he would improve the team, I think there is a standard of basic behaviour that everyone needs to meet. Beating up and threatening women would fail to meet that standard, for me, even if the victim were subsequently dissuaded from testifying, as is the case here. Such a shame. He’s a fabulous player.
his victim has forgiven him and chosed to move forward with him and their child.
Err yes he did. The FA set up an independent panel to investigate and they found Suarez guilty of using racist remark toward Evra thats why he got banned (based on the independent panel recommendantion), even Liverpool have finally admitted their fooly that they sent Evra formal apology few years ago.
How did he play yesterday?
You know that usually the victims get physically and mentaly manipulated and controlled right?
He was cleared and found innocent in a court of law. Evra Suarez never went to court. The entire point of the post is to highlight the fallibility of stating that because a court didn’t find someone guilty, it means everyone has to treat them as innocent.
So we're just going to assume that's the case here with zero evidence?
For me it means he apologized, she accepted his apology, and that he has treated her well since all the problems started. She could have left him, gotten a lot of money from him to not testify, and moved on. If that had happened, I would have a different view. I've said this before, most young adults deserve a second chance after really poor behavior and mistakes.
Again the point is pretty clear. People keep repeating that her forgiving him means he should be absolved, but that’s not how the world works, on two counts.
The first (which has been posted again and again in this thread yet it’s often ignored) is that partners who suffer domestic violence often return to their abuser, so it’s a lot more complicated than stating “everything’s rosy with them now because she’s with him”
The second is if I stabbed someone, and they forgave me, it doesn’t mean that everyone else has to act as if the act never happened.
How do you know this is the case with her now, are you her counselor or something? For all we know she just might not want to see the father of her baby go to prison. If the victim is willing to give him second chance, why shouldnt we? we are nobody to their relationship anyway.
who is "he" that youre talking about? Greenwood case has never gone to court. Also Evra - Suarez was football related accident, the court had nothing to do with it, otherwise we might be seeing tackle being trialed as a form of battery next.
He's publicly stated he wants a fresh start and to resume his career.
He's not been found guilty of anything at all legally.
The victim has forgiven him, the victims family have forgiven him.
If it was a footballing decision he'd be playing for us, not loaned out to a poor Spanish team
That's not a court lof law, and if we want to draw parallells to the legal system it's closer to a civil case than a criminal one. Apologies are completely irrelevant, as long as you've not been found guilty you are presumed innocent by the state no matter what you admit to.
If we solely go by the justice system, then we cannot say that Suarez racially abused Evra.
John Terry. And no, racially abusing someone is a court matter, Evra could have gone to the legs authorities. Which again leads credence to NotThatSoph’s argument.
Your tackle point is asinine, Duncan Ferguson went to jail because he headbutted a player on the pitch. Just because it happened during a football game doesn’t mean the courts can’t do anything
No, you cut them from your life.
This is excellent.
Which scenario do you think works out best for her? 1. Greenwood is sold to a foreign club, she has to move away from her family and friends whilst forever feeling the wrath and being gaslighted by the online vermin or 2. Greenwood plays for utd again, she can start to live in peace putting the situation behind her with hope Greenwood has matured into a better person and raise a family, with the freedom to contact the police and report him if it ever comes close to happening again?
I saw this yesterday and it infuriated me, if he leaves then she will be gaslighted forever by horrible cnuts. The best thing we can do is support her choices rather than see it as her being manipulated, so she can start to live a normal life without the prospect of being heavily targeted online.
He came on in the 68th minute after his side went down 4-2. Was involved in their goal to make it 4-3, made a promising run down the right wing, and got a curling shot off near FT, which the oppo keeper mishandled but managed to cover up. Based on his two appearances so far, he's probably ready for a bigger role beyond the usual 60th minute sub appearance.
yeah because headbutting player is part of the game, eh? good thing Evra didnt push to the court considering how useless the british court was when they tried John Terry.
I don’t care if he does or doesn’t play for your club again. What I do care about is people making arguments that both perpetuates a culture that leads to abusers being emboldened. There’s a long history of abusers with talent having rabid support, especially online. Which that picture you posted is a prime example ofWhich scenario do you think works out best for her? 1. Greenwood is sold to a foreign club, she has to move away from her family and friends whilst forever feeling the wrath and being gaslighted by the online vermin or 2. Greenwood plays for utd again, she can start to live in peace putting the situation behind her with hope Greenwood has matured into a better person and raise a family, with the freedom to contact the police and report him if it ever comes close to happening again?
I saw this yesterday and it infuriated me, if he leaves then she will be gaslighted forever by horrible cnuts. The best thing we can do is support her choices rather than see it as her being manipulated, so she can live a normal life without the prospect of being heavily targeted online.
Can you take down the image that identifies her, please?
and racially abusing a player is?! What even is your point there?
This is impossible to know, and a dangerous conclusion to draw, given the alarming rate of domestic violence recidivism and reoccurrence.
And that is after accounting for the fact that many abusers who successfully stop abusing go through a lengthy process of therapy and acceptance of responsibility/accountability for their actions, the latter of which seems lacking in what we know about this situation, unfortunately.