Mason Mount

[EtH]

Yeah I’ve never understood what all the fuss was about with him.

 

[B20]

He's a good player, but not good enough to shoulder the burden of being part of a three-man attack as a starter in a top team. Havertz being supported by him and Pulisic in a crunch game is not going to cut it at the highest level.

Excellent player to have as the first player off the bench in the advanced midfield role though.

 

[B20]

He’s Chelsea’s Lingard. He’ll have spells when he looks a player but he’s remarkably average.

He's much better than Lingaard ever was.

 

[weetee]

Loved his last seasons performance (right up until the Euro started), near perfect. But this year is a massive dropdown. Where he was consistent and reliable his form goes up and down now all the time (also during matches - hardly ever has a constant 90mins performance) and it just seems he lost his focus / rhythm. That's the case with a lot of Chelsea players (Mendy, Jorginho, Kanté and most of the forwards as well) though so not really sure what to make of it. Maybe the CL win and Euro finale got into their heads a bit too much.

 

[Righteous Steps]

He’s certainly not dynamic or skilfull enough to play in the front three of a top side at the same time he can be a bit basic in CM, the biggest conundrum will be where to play him. I suspect Gallagher will come back and take one of those 3 midfield slots alongside Kante and Kovacic.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

not good enough to shoulder the burden of being part of a three-man attack as a starter in a top team. Havertz being supported by him and Pulisic in a crunch game is not going to cut it at the highest level.

Champions League quarter final 2021

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Champions League semi final 2021

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Champions League final 2022 - literally an assist to Havertz to win the highest level club cup competition

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[duffer]

If Chelsea did go bust and all our players were available, pretty much all the top clubs would be sniffing around Mount.

He's not prime Messi of course but he's very good.

 

[B20]

Champions League quarter final 2021

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Champions League semi final 2021

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Champions League final 2022 - literally an assist to Havertz to win the highest level club cup competition

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Smicer and Origi have scored in CL finals too.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Smicer and Origi have scored in CL finals too.

Did either of them score in the quarters, the semis and then assist the goal in the final?

Besides you said that Mount supporting Havertz wouldn't ever cut it at the top level when it literally happened last season in the biggest final of them all. Mount played a key role in Chelsea winning the Champions League last season. It's a simple fact.

 

[cyberman]

Did either of them score in the quarters, the semis and then assist the goal in the final?

Besides you said that Mount supporting Havertz wouldn't ever cut it at the top level when it literally happened last season in the biggest final of them all. Mount played a key role in Chelsea winning the Champions League last season. It's a simple fact.

50 year old Giggs either scored or assisted in every knockout game, including the final v Barca, in our 2011 run, as a midfielder.
Sometimes a player just becomes hot during a competition

 

[Bebestation]

Is Havertz a really good player / forward?

His stats are really meh so what is it? His work rate or his ability to be cohesive with the rest?

 

[EtH]

Did either of them score in the quarters, the semis and then assist the goal in the final?

Besides you said that Mount supporting Havertz wouldn't ever cut it at the top level when it literally happened last season in the biggest final of them all. Mount played a key role in Chelsea winning the Champions League last season. It's a simple fact.

You’re really getting carried away with three matches in a cup run. That doesn’t even qualify as a purple patch.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

50 year old Giggs either scored or assisted in every knockout game, including the final v Barca, in our 2011 run, as a midfielder.
Sometimes a player just becomes hot during a competition

Come on this is a terrible point, trying to discredit Mount by comparing him to an all time legend in a season where we won the league and made the Champions League final!?

You’re really getting carried away with three matches in a cup run. That doesn’t even qualify as a purple patch.

The question is if Mount is 'average' or 'crap' as the big brains on Twitter apparently have decided. Crap or average players don't achieve what Mount has in football. They don't go on runs where they make decisive contributions at the very highest level of the game.

As Duffer said, he isn't Messi but he's a very good player.

 

[EtH]

The question is if Mount is 'average' or 'crap' as the big brains on Twitter apparently have decided. Crap or average players don't achieve what Mount has in football. They don't go on runs where they make decisive contributions at the very highest level of the game.

As Duffer said, he isn't Messi but he's a very good player.

Messi Lingard.

 

[cyberman]

Come on this is a terrible point, trying to discredit Mount by comparing him to an all time legend in a season where we won the league and made the Champions League final!?



The question is if Mount is 'average' or 'crap' as the big brains on Twitter apparently have decided. Crap or average players don't achieve what Mount has in football. They don't go on runs where they make decisive contributions at the very highest level of the game.

As Duffer said, he isn't Messi but he's a very good player.

No, I’m saying Giggs was a legendary winger who had a white hot CL season when he was moved inside during his late 30s. We were still undoubtedly weak in midfield during that time, it was one of the main problems we had during SAF final few years.
We even brought Scholes back that season to shore us up yet there we are with Giggs stats.
What I saying is a cup competition doesn’t really tell us what works or not.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Messi Lingard.

Lingard is a poor comparison. Has he won the Champions League or has he made the Champons League squad of the season? Has he even made any decisive contributions in the Champions League knockout stages? Unfortunately United haven't been operating at that level with Lingard in the team. He did do well for us in lower cup competitions and the league in the top 4 race for a couple of seasons.

No, I’m saying Giggs was a legendary winger who had a white hot CL season when he was moved inside during his late 30s. We were still undoubtedly weak in midfield during that time, it was one of the main problems we had during SAF final few years.
We even brought Scholes back that season to shore us up yet there we are with Giggs stats.
What I saying is a cup competition doesn’t really tell us what works or not.

As a one off you can make that argument but the fact is Mount is a starter for one of the best sides in Europe. He made a decisive contribution in winning the highest level club cup competition and he's played in a major international final all in the past year. You can even look at his youth career where he was one of the very best in Europe winning the golden player at the u19 Euros when England won it and being a key player in a Chelsea youth side that won everything in the game.

Does all this really happen to crap or average players?

Perhaps the teenagers on Twitter don't actually know a great deal about football. Maybe Tuchel and Southgate select him for such big games because he offers attributes that most fans overlook. His off the ball work and following team instructions perhaps? Sometimes he makes telling end product contributions too. Mount is both top goalscorer and has most assists for Chelsea in the Premier League this season. They have been poor offensively in that regard but I think the likes of Lukaku, Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech, Havertz to a lesser extent have been bigger problems for them because they've offered so little.

The story of last night's game was of Benzema. He had two headers, one was very hard and one more straight foward and he scored them both. In contrast Lukaku had two headers, one more difficult and one more straight forward but he missed them both. Chelsea bested Real in possession, shots, xG and xT. Sometimes you just have to take your hat off to a performance like Benzema's last night.

Mount didn't have his best game (he was a lot better than Pulsic who offered nothing on or off the ball) but I'm not seeing why he would be so harshly judged in light of what happened in the game, his numbers for Chelsea this season and what he achieved for them in last season's competition.

 

[WeePat]

Top player, but he's had a mixed season. Some wonderful games. Some pretty average and downright bad games. I think he needs to go back the basics that served him well last season - living in the pocket. He's been moved around a lot to accommodate others or different tactics but his sweet spot is that half 8/half 10 position. He was so effective for us in that role. Shoving him into midfield or to the wing, he can do a job there but it'll never be his greatest work.

He's not a flashy player, so people will forever label him crap or average. People were saying that about him when he was in top form for us last season.

Chelsea fans are very divided on him though, and have been since he came into the first team.

 

[duffer]

Chelsea fans are very divided on him though, and have been since he came into the first team.

Chelsea fans love him. Twitter users with a football player as their profile pic don't count.

 

[Hammondo]

He's a good player but not an amazing one.

 

[WeePat]

Chelsea fans love him. Twitter users with a football player as their profile pic don't count.

Yeah I suppose that's fair, that's where the negative noise about him is being generated but I do happen to know people, Chelsea fans, in real life who do not rate him.

 

[duffer]

Yeah I suppose that's fair, that's where the negative noise about him is being generated but I do happen to know people, Chelsea fans, in real life who do not rate him.

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one but some are shittier than others I guess!

 

[Classical Mechanic]

He’s certainly not dynamic or skilfull enough to play in the front three of a top side at the same time he can be a bit basic in CM, the biggest conundrum will be where to play him. I suspect Gallagher will come back and take one of those 3 midfield slots alongside Kante and Kovacic.

Gallagher will get the same treatment Mount does when people start watching him more closely. He's a similar kind of player. A lot of his quality is what he does off the ball. If he isn't scoring or assisting and you're only looking at what he does on the ball he can be very underwhelming. Mount actually has more on the ball quality whereas Gallagher is the better athlete. I'm sure that Gallagher will fall foul of the Twitter 'sick baller' brigade if he starts playing for Chelsea and England more.

 

[WeePat]

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one but some are shittier than others I guess!

True.

 

[B20]

Did either of them score in the quarters, the semis and then assist the goal in the final?

Besides you said that Mount supporting Havertz wouldn't ever cut it at the top level when it literally happened last season in the biggest final of them all. Mount played a key role in Chelsea winning the Champions League last season. It's a simple fact.

Origi scored a brace in the semis and then scored in the final.

I wouldn't bank on him to be the one to score the goals for me in the semis and final next time around.

Same as mount may have done it last season but I'd be looking for someone better starting if I wanted a proper shot at winning it again.

Also I didn't say he wouldn't ever cut it at the top level.

 

[Dave Smith]

Not sure people should be writing off a 23 year old like they are.

 

[Righteous Steps]

Did either of them score in the quarters, the semis and then assist the goal in the final?

Besides you said that Mount supporting Havertz wouldn't ever cut it at the top level when it literally happened last season in the biggest final of them all. Mount played a key role in Chelsea winning the Champions League last season. It's a simple fact.

Origi scored 2 against Barca in the semis, then the final.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Origi scored a brace in the semis and then scored in the final.

I wouldn't bank on him to be the one to score the goals for me in the semis and final next time around.

Same as mount may have done it last season but I'd be looking for someone better starting if I wanted a proper shot at winning it again.

Also I didn't say he wouldn't ever cut it at the top level.

It isn't really the same as Mount last season though. Mount started every single knockout game for Chelsea in the competition and was then elected to the Champions League squad of the season for his performances. Origi was a back up player who made a significant contribution when called upon. He played 188 minutes in the whole competition with only 1 start and 5 sub apps.

Personally I would've said that Lukaku, Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech were much more of a concern for Chelsea's fortunes given their low output for Chelsea this season. Havertz is harder to place because he seems to do well in big games but his contribution in the Premier League has been poor overall.

 

[Remember the geese]

Not a big fan of him to be honest. I think he's decent enough, but should be a squad player. I wouldn't have him in the England side either. He's never really performed for them. I'd play Foden in his role.

 

[horsechoker]

Not sure people should be writing off a 23 year old like they are.

7 years off 30, worryingly close

 

[Righteous Steps]

Lingard is a poor comparison. Has he won the Champions League or has he made the Champons League squad of the season? Has he even made any decisive contributions in the Champions League knockout stages? Unfortunately United haven't been operating at that level with Lingard in the team. He did do well for us in lower cup competitions and the league in the top 4 race for a couple of seasons.



As a one off you can make that argument but the fact is Mount is a starter for one of the best sides in Europe. He made a decisive contribution in winning the highest level club cup competition and he's played in a major international final all in the past year. You can even look at his youth career where he was one of the very best in Europe winning the golden player at the u19 Euros when England won it and being a key player in a Chelsea youth side that won everything in the game.

Does all this really happen to crap or average players?

Perhaps the teenagers on Twitter don't actually know a great deal about football. Maybe Tuchel and Southgate select him for such big games because he offers attributes that most fans overlook. His off the ball work and following team instructions perhaps? Sometimes he makes telling end product contributions too. Mount is both top goalscorer and has most assists for Chelsea in the Premier League this season. They have been poor offensively in that regard but I think the likes of Lukaku, Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech, Havertz to a lesser extent have been bigger problems for them because they've offered so little.

The story of last night's game was of Benzema. He had two headers, one was very hard and one more straight foward and he scored them both. In contrast Lukaku had two headers, one more difficult and one more straight forward but he missed them both. Chelsea bested Real in possession, shots, xG and xT. Sometimes you just have to take your hat off to a performance like Benzema's last night.

Mount didn't have his best game (he was a lot better than Pulsic who offered nothing on or off the ball) but I'm not seeing why he would be so harshly judged in light of what happened in the game, his numbers for Chelsea this season and what he achieved for them in last season's competition.

Im not sure he will be Chelsea starter for long if they have any aspirations of winning the league and CL again, especially not in the forward positions where they could do with a Salah Vinicius Jr Sterling Mahrez type winger who will score goals and assist as well.

He has even more struggles trying to play in midfield, Kante and Kovacic are clearly better in that position and Gallagher for all is faults has actually proved himself as a Cm as opposed to aattacking mid wide playmaker hybrid, for England if not for the love Southgate has for him he would barely make the bench.

Clearly far more talented actual wide forwards in that squad, and one could also say in terms of midfield he hasn’t outperformed the likes of Maddison Gallagher either, he will also have completion from the likes of Ramsey Emile Smith Roswell soon also, at 23 he needs to kick in sooner than later.

Still a good player but can’t believe people were comparing him to the likes of Foden and heralding him as a certain star for England’s future generation, he’s one of those players who have decent level of talent but needs to put in a lot of work to reach the top level, he isn’t naturally gifted like a Foden Sancho Bellingham even ESR IMO.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Im not sure he will be Chelsea starter for long if they have any aspirations of winning the league and CL again, especially not in the forward positions where they could do with a Salah Vinicius Jr Sterling Mahrez type winger who will score goals and assist as well.

He has even more struggles trying to play in midfield, Kante and Kovacic are clearly better in that position and Gallagher for all is faults has actually proved himself as a Cm as opposed to aattacking mid wide playmaker hybrid, for England if not for the love Southgate has for him he would barely make the bench.

Clearly far more talented actual wide forwards in that squad, and one could also say in terms of midfield he hasn’t outperformed the likes of Maddison Gallagher either, he will also have completion from the likes of Ramsey Emile Smith Roswell soon also, at 23 he needs to kick in sooner than later.

Still a good player but can’t believe people were comparing him to the likes of Foden and heralding him as a certain star for England’s future generation, he’s one of those players who have decent level of talent but needs to put in a lot of work to reach the top level, he isn’t naturally gifted like a Foden Sancho Bellingham even ESR IMO.

He already has reached the top level. You're talking about him like he's a youth player.

I've heard the same arguments about Mount since he broke through and I'm still not convinced by them.

Chelsea have spent £300m on Lukaku, Pulisic, Havertz, Ziyech and Werner. In the Premier League this season they've returned 20 goals and 6 assists between them all! Salah has 20 goals and 10 assists by himself!!

In contrast Mount has 8 goals and 7 assists for Chelsea in the league making him their top scorer and top assister. Using the FBref scouting report all his attacking numbers are nearing the elite bracket. Then you have his off the ball work and doing what his manager wants him to do (which is a big thing).

https://fbref.com/en/players/9674002f/scout/11160/Mason-Mount-Scouting-Report

I'm not sure how you can look at Chelsea's attackers this season and deduce that Mount is the issue. What they needs (like all teams) is a Salah or a Benzema. Mount is isn't a flashy player but he's exactly the kind of player that you want supporting those kind of players.

Personally, injuries permitting, I think he'll win 100 caps for England. I don't think he'll be the star for club or country but I think he'll sustain a career at the highest level.

 

[Dave Smith]

He already has reached the top level. You're talking about him like he's a youth player.

I've heard the same arguments about Mount since he broke through and I'm still not convinced by them.

Chelsea have spent £300m on Lukaku, Pulisic, Havertz, Ziyech and Werner. In the Premier League this season they've returned 20 goals and 6 assists between them all! Salah has 20 goals and 10 assists by himself!!

In contrast Mount has 8 goals and 7 assists for Chelsea in the league making him their top scorer and top assister. Using the FBref scouting report all his attacking numbers are nearing the elite bracket. Then you have his off the ball work and doing what his manager wants him to do (which is a big thing).

https://fbref.com/en/players/9674002f/scout/11160/Mason-Mount-Scouting-Report

I'm not sure how you can look at Chelsea's attackers this season and deduce that Mount is the issue. What they needs (like all teams) is a Salah or a Benzema. Mount is isn't a flashy player but he's exactly the kind of player that you want supporting those kind of players.

Personally, injuries permitting, I think he'll win 100 caps for England. I don't think he'll be the star for club or country but I think he'll sustain a career at the highest level.

Good, well argued post.

 

[cyberman]

Im not sure he will be Chelsea starter for long if they have any aspirations of winning the league and CL again, especially not in the forward positions where they could do with a Salah Vinicius Jr Sterling Mahrez type winger who will score goals and assist as well.

He has even more struggles trying to play in midfield, Kante and Kovacic are clearly better in that position and Gallagher for all is faults has actually proved himself as a Cm as opposed to aattacking mid wide playmaker hybrid, for England if not for the love Southgate has for him he would barely make the bench.

Clearly far more talented actual wide forwards in that squad, and one could also say in terms of midfield he hasn’t outperformed the likes of Maddison Gallagher either, he will also have completion from the likes of Ramsey Emile Smith Roswell soon also, at 23 he needs to kick in sooner than later.

Still a good player but can’t believe people were comparing him to the likes of Foden and heralding him as a certain star for England’s future generation, he’s one of those players who have decent level of talent but needs to put in a lot of work to reach the top level, he isn’t naturally gifted like a Foden Sancho Bellingham even ESR IMO.

I’m in the same boat as this. He’s in the same bracket as Rashford. I’m sure his stats stack up but at the top level he’s just short of what’s needed.
With the defensive way they set up Mount is needed to do so much more but it’s been James who has stepped up and covered Mounts lack of consistent playmaking over 90 minutes. He should be constantly stretching sides, picking passes etc but it’s just not there.
If Chelsea ever got an elite no 10 hybrid then this becomes glaringly obvious. Like Utd when trying to make an argument over Pogba as a ten then Bruno comes in and blows all the excuses away.

 

[Righteous Steps]

He already has reached the top level. You're talking about him like he's a youth player.

I've heard the same arguments about Mount since he broke through and I'm still not convinced by them.

Chelsea have spent £300m on Lukaku, Pulisic, Havertz, Ziyech and Werner. In the Premier League this season they've returned 20 goals and 6 assists between them all! Salah has 20 goals and 10 assists by himself!!

In contrast Mount has 8 goals and 7 assists for Chelsea in the league making him their top scorer and top assister. Using the FBref scouting report all his attacking numbers are nearing the elite bracket. Then you have his off the ball work and doing what his manager wants him to do (which is a big thing).

https://fbref.com/en/players/9674002f/scout/11160/Mason-Mount-Scouting-Report

I'm not sure how you can look at Chelsea's attackers this season and deduce that Mount is the issue. What they needs (like all teams) is a Salah or a Benzema. Mount is isn't a flashy player but he's exactly the kind of player that you want supporting those kind of players.

Personally, injuries permitting, I think he'll win 100 caps for England. I don't think he'll be the star for club or country but I think he'll sustain a career at the highest level.

A top player as in a world class player, a player who could fit into most teams in Europe.

He has 8 goals and 7 assists but don’t think stats always tell the full picture, for example more than a quarter of those goal contributions came in one game against Norwich, he has 6 goal contributions against them in the league this season and the total also includes two penalties.

He’s played as an attacker for the majority of the season so if we’re judging him as an attacker, he leaves a lot to be desired, he doesn’t have pace, he’s not a good dribbler and his passing isn’t particularly creative either, he averages 1.6 key passes per game as one of Chelsea’s primary set price takers, it isn’t bad but not great like much of Mounts game.

The problem for him arises if you judge him as an attacker which he has been since he’s been playing as one of the front two three or whatever players, for England alone you have Bowen Saka who have been better this season, plus you have Sterling Sancho Rashford Foden whos top peak level performances in the past have surpassed any season Mount has yet to have in his career. This is not considering the likes of Maddison who has been just as productive as Mount this season, and Emile Smith Rowe who has done well in less minutes and is having a breakthrough season.

For England alone he doesn’t stand out as a top class attacker so when you consider Chelsea are playing against teams who don’t just have a Benzema or Salah in their front three, but a Vinicius Jr, Mane Diaz or Jota also it goes to show that he currently takes a spot that could obviously be upgraded. Chelsea need an attacker who can get 15-20 goals in a season, but also have the qualities such as pace dribbling and dynamism to go along with it for them to go to another level.

He’s best bet to become a top player will always be as a third CM, the thing is though whether for England and even in his last game he played against Brentford he hasn’t really shown that he can be a truly top class CM either, it leaves a bit of a dilemma on how to fit him in, and my believe is that he may end up being a good serviceable squad player that can fit into a few positions but never a truly top class player which you basically admit yourself.

 

[Righteous Steps]

I think he’ll win a lot of caps for England also though because England loves players like Mount for better or worse.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I think he’ll win a lot of caps for England also though because England loves players like Mount for better or worse.

A world class player is a step beyond a 'top' player in my lexicon. I think Mount could become world class if he becomes more consistent with his output. He's streaky and his end product comes in bunches. There's no way of telling if a player will click and become ruthlessly consistent so I'm not going to claim that he will in the future. Orginally I was contesting the idea that he's average or crap as per the Twitter mob.

I actually think he's less likely to be prominent for England than Chelsea. If you're in charge of transfers at Chelsea then it's not Mount in the attack that you need to replace, it's the centre forward primarily. With England there are no transfers, no financial priorities of that sort, the options are the options and with the competition in his position he could end up playing more of a squad role.

 

[tenpoless]

Chelsea fans love him. Twitter users with a football player as their profile pic don't count.

So pundits and football players don't count.

 

[Righteous Steps]

A world class player is a step beyond a 'top' player in my lexicon. I think Mount could become world class if he becomes more consistent with his output. He's streaky and his end product comes in bunches. There's no way of telling if a player will click and become ruthlessly consistent so I'm not going to claim that he will in the future. Orginally I was contesting the idea that he's average or crap as per the Twitter mob.

I actually think he's less likely to be prominent for England than Chelsea. If you're in charge of transfers at Chelsea then it's not Mount in the attack that you need to replace, it's the centre forward primarily. With England there are no transfers, no financial priorities of that sort, the options are the options and with the competition in his position he could end up playing more of a squad role.

I’m not sure it’s the centre forward you need to replace primarily because Havertz looks to be a great false 9, he’s a naturally more gifted player than Mount and has finally found his best position. He also has a quite useful knack of scoring and performing well in their big games, so you start from him and naturally if for example were playing a 4-3-3 surround him by two goalscoring fast wingers. This is actually what Hudson Odoi Pulisic and Ziyech were supposed to offer them but none have really hit the heights foreseen for them which has allowed Mount to claim one of those positions as his own, ideally because of the fact Havertz may be a streak goal scorer you would want your two attackers supporting him to be able to score goals as well as provide an outlet and stretch defences with their pace and dribbling.

 

[NoPace]

Gallagher will get the same treatment Mount does when people start watching him more closely. He's a similar kind of player. A lot of his quality is what he does off the ball. If he isn't scoring or assisting and you're only looking at what he does on the ball he can be very underwhelming. Mount actually has more on the ball quality whereas Gallagher is the better athlete. I'm sure that Gallagher will fall foul of the Twitter 'sick baller' brigade if he starts playing for Chelsea and England more.

Gallagher reminds me of VDB in that he comes alive in the box. I assume he'll struggle at Chelsea or be a great bench scorer, then find a role like Gundogan has now somewhere where he's basically a 2nd striker most of the time, as opposed to a classic #8 like at Dortmund.

Mount's movement is really clever but #10s are so rare these days and he's not an assist machine like say Muller so it's tough sometimes. He's only just turned 23, so I wouldn't bet against him becoming a more efficient creator.

 

[NoPace]

He's much better than Lingaard ever was.

Yeah. Lingard is genuinely the worst creator I can think of at the #10. If you're not playing on the counter or getting multiple chances in front of goal (where Mount is as good), it's Mount all day every.