What? You know what, never mind. A bizarre back and forth I have no interest in continuing. Let’s just say we disagree and call it a day?
Mason Mount
- Thread starter Schmeichel's Cartwheel
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I don’t disagree with most of that, but I do think if England had a more adventurous coach, he would still pick Mount in a midfield 3 ahead of the players you mentioned. Of course if you’re going to shove him up front or out wide, it makes zero sense to pick him ahead of Grealish or Foden.
Why do you keep talking about a midfield 3? He wasnt part of a midfield 3. He played 10, hardly tracked back and England got over run in midfield
I don't think he should be near the England team, but then I also don't think Southgate has a clue about any of his players, which doesn't help someone like Mount who has to be utilised to their strengths to be effective.
He was trying to press last night, but you can't do that with Kane in the team as he's never going to bother. So Mount's work rate is rendered irrelevant. And then we also don't get him the ball in the pockets or spaces where he's actually dangerous because we don't try to play on the counter or directly either...and yet in spite of that we play two very direct wingers who have next to no interest in doing anything other than trying to run through the opposition defence every time they get it, as opposed to people like Foden who might actually have the awareness and composure to create space then feed the ball back in to someone like Mount.
Nearly every England attack is about 1 minute of Maguire and Stones passing sideways until one of the fullbacks gets it, then it either goes straight into the box, or goes to Saka/Sterling who then just run blindly at the nearest opposition player, in Sterling's case seemingly with the sole intention of trying to get inside the area so he can dive. Anyone in a no10 role without the selfishness/playmaking instincts to just go to where the ball is and force the game to go through them, is never going to have a chance in a Southgate team.
He was trying to press last night, but you can't do that with Kane in the team as he's never going to bother. So Mount's work rate is rendered irrelevant. And then we also don't get him the ball in the pockets or spaces where he's actually dangerous because we don't try to play on the counter or directly either...and yet in spite of that we play two very direct wingers who have next to no interest in doing anything other than trying to run through the opposition defence every time they get it, as opposed to people like Foden who might actually have the awareness and composure to create space then feed the ball back in to someone like Mount.
Nearly every England attack is about 1 minute of Maguire and Stones passing sideways until one of the fullbacks gets it, then it either goes straight into the box, or goes to Saka/Sterling who then just run blindly at the nearest opposition player, in Sterling's case seemingly with the sole intention of trying to get inside the area so he can dive. Anyone in a no10 role without the selfishness/playmaking instincts to just go to where the ball is and force the game to go through them, is never going to have a chance in a Southgate team.
He's played 33 times for England, often as a 10, or somewhere in a three behind a striker, or as the most furthest forward of a midfield three.
In all that time, he's yet to assist Harry Kane in open play. That stat alone should tell you everything.
In all that time, he's yet to assist Harry Kane in open play. That stat alone should tell you everything.
Last 2 games he’s been playing in a 3 man midfield as a number 8 and not a number 10. He’s been playing on the left hand side of the 3 with Bellingham playing as the other number 8 but in a box to box role where he gets back to help defensively too.
Regardless, Mount was poor along with a number of other players yesterday. The whole set up just didn’t work. We got over run down our left hand side with Sterling and Mount leaving Shaw 2 v 1 far too often. Sterling definitely stayed on longer than he should. I would have brought Rashford on for him down the left against an attacking fullback in Dest.
I do feel there was an element of England playing knowing a draw was enough to qualify and hence playing with the hand brake. England will have known they only had to avoid a 0-4 defeat to wales to make a draw good enough last night.
Thats were he was on the line up. Not sure he actually played there much at all last night. He wasn't helping out rice and Bellingham much at all he was pressing up top like he was a 2nd striker. Kane was often deeper
It tells me that he and Kane are not a good pairing. Which you could have guessed without even watching them together because they both lack pace and want to play in the same sorts of spaces.
Mount's problem more generally is that he doesn't get enough goals and assists. Adding the fact that he and Kane are awful together and you get first names on Southgate's teamsheet.
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Kane does nothing but score penalties for England these days. Dropping so deep is completely unnecessary when it’s basically benching Foden
I think he is a good player in a certain system but last night he was embarrassingly bad. Consistently gave the ball away and messed up attacks and opportunities. It was a disgrace that he stayed on the pitch and someone like Foden was kept on the bench.
Apparently he's rejected a new 200k a week contract and is asking for 300k. If true that Chelsea offered him even 200k then that doesn't bode well. 200k either means they see him as one of their top players, or their wage structure is royally fecked.
Because from what I’ve noticed, whenever England aren’t dominating a game, Southgate reverts to using Mount as a pure attacker, and that’s what he did yesterday, which in my opinion takes away Mount’s strengths and exposes his weak points.Against Iran Mount and Bellingham were both occupying the pockets, both were good. Anyway the whole set up was weird. When you’re seeing Bellingham exchanging passes with Maguire as the deepest lying midfielder and Mount pressing up high as the furthest forward attacker, there’s a disconnect in what Southgate was asking players to do.
Anyway, it’s obvious I’m in the minority so I don’t see a need to keep chiming in with my takes. There’s two pages of it now
Feel sorry for Chelsea fans who will have to see him command a starting spot for the next couple years at the very least
I’ve tried really hard to go out of my way and focus on him to see what he’s offering that’s making Southgate and Chelsea pick him consistently. I just can’t see it. Certainly doesn’t warrant starting over Foden.
When Tammy Abraham got 15 pL goals for us i dont think Mount ever assisted him either.
Mount is not creative but managers keep playing him as a 10. This guy is also asking for 300K a week, i feel sick.
He has been really poor in 2022, this isn't just a few weeks or few months of bad form. We literally have a like for like replacement who costs us nothing in Connor Gallagher. So he needs to remember that when he's asking for 300k a week. He isn't indispensable.
He needs to play more as an 8 for England and Chelsea.
Kane needs a midfield runner (he’d probably fit great with Bruno in that aspect) that can take the space he leaves when dropping deep.
It’s why I think one England solution could be moving Bellingham further forward to have that freedom and putting Henderson in beside Rice to give a bit more control from deep. Foden would work better as a 10 if he had a striker like Rashford or someone similar ahead of him playing on the shoulder.
For me it's pretty clear that Mount's best archetype is peak Angel Di Maria - there is absolutely huge value in being able to switch between a role as an inside forward and then as an 8 in the same game. Obviously then this type of nuanced role will always be underappreciated at international level where the managers are dumber and training time is more limited. With England specifically though I just don't think it makes sense to have both Kane and Mount in the same team - both ideally want to be operating between the lines and with both of them in that pocket there is not enough running in behind (especially because Saka has this tendency as well).
Mount appears to get through more work than those guys and probably a better fit in Southgate’s midfield three but yesterday his positional sense was off (so was Bellingham’s to be fair). I don’t really like him in that MF 3. Prefer him on the left of the front three, probably as a rotation / sub option. He’s a very good player but I’m not totally sure what he “is”.
THERE is the problem really, and not just for England. He lacks creativity and skill for a 10. He’s not going to scare anyone coming from out wide. He isn’t really an 8 either. He is “good” at a lot of things. But not “great” at anything. And he tends to slow down transitional play JUST at the moment you’re looking at the whole field and thinking he should be quickly finding a particular pass forward. It gets … frustrating at times as a Chelsea fan, because we want him to be THE guy at some position so badly.
I think he's a player who can make sure the team is functional around a superstar luxury attacker.
If he had been the left sided 8 behind Hazard for Sarri's Chelsea he'd look a lot better I think - but this doesn't translate to the national team. Fully agreed with you though that the midfield was very poor - here's a good summary of the US's pressing tactics and how it rattled England:
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He's just a very, very average player.
Yet another generation of talented players, with Foden being the most, being wasted.
I would build the team around Foden and Kane.
Think he's gassed more than anything, must've started over 200 games since start of 2018 when he was regular for Derby and then broke into Chelsea 11 the next season and has rarely been left out since.
Compare to Foden, Grealish or Rashford who in same timeframe have had spells out injured/benched.
He's been poor this season and unlike the euros I don't think he'll be starting whenever England play their final game of the World cup. Wales match is probably a good chance to go with another combination behind Kane.
Compare to Foden, Grealish or Rashford who in same timeframe have had spells out injured/benched.
He's been poor this season and unlike the euros I don't think he'll be starting whenever England play their final game of the World cup. Wales match is probably a good chance to go with another combination behind Kane.
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He hasn't really had a proper break since breaking into the Chelsea team (lockdown doesn't count).
I dont understand him rejecting the 200k a week deal. The story goes he wants the same as Sterling's 300k, but surely Chelsea can hold firm as whatever club will give him 300k a week? Liverpool are constantly rumored to be a destination for him, and they broke their wage structure for Mo Salah, but thats Mo Salah, Liverpool wont be breaking their present structure for Mason Mount. FFS Foden is on 220k a week and Saka new deal is rumoured to be at 200k.
I really think Chelsea need to hold firm. As whilst many clubs would wants Mount, none would have him at that salary.
I really think Chelsea need to hold firm. As whilst many clubs would wants Mount, none would have him at that salary.
If he accepted the first offer he'd be a moron.
He'll sign an extension eventually and he'll get more than whatever was offered first.
And it will be a mistake
Not as much of a mistake as seeing him sign Liverpool or whoever on a free.
Imagine rejecting 200k a week at 23 years old as a slightly above average footballer, I must be getting old.
Yeah that pressing was so good and agony to watch.
Di Maria was special as a ball carrier, though. Mount doesn't have that. Di Maria was a great threat vertically in the halfspace, and if the opposing team's right back moved up he could get behind him too.
Mount reminds me of some of the midfielders Spain had in the 90s when I first started watching football (so my memories may be playing tricks on me) like Caminero and an older Luis Enrique. Clever, technically very good, lacking pace (Luis Enrique had it when he was younger though) and quite good at most parts of attacking play without having a thing he was truly great at.
Isn't the holdup more about years since Boehly wants players to sign 8 year contracts or whatever?
The reports are that he wants more dosh but who knows.
Yeah. It’s not that he thinks he is “worth” more but he knows he will be expensive to replace and he thinks Chelsea will opt to pay Mount more than he’s “worth” so they don’t have to buy another guy and end up paying the new guy a similar amount. It’s crazy.
That's the thing, we have a ready made replacement in the squad already if it comes to it (Gallagher).
As much as I want Mount to sign and I think some of the comments on this thread are wildly inaccurate i don't think we should be held ransom to literally any cost, he's not irreplaceable like James is.
I don't think Mount should be starting for England, there's a lot of better options but suddenly now Foden is one of the best in the world by virtue of being left on the bench? Seen so many articles, comments about him being a generational talent? Really?
Don't get me wrong, he's a very talented player and one of the best young players itw but I don't think he's generational, he's had some stand out games when I've watched him but too many times he goes missing. I'm sure City fans who watch him more can give a better viewpoint?
Don't get me wrong, he's a very talented player and one of the best young players itw but I don't think he's generational, he's had some stand out games when I've watched him but too many times he goes missing. I'm sure City fans who watch him more can give a better viewpoint?
"He's our Messi" mate, haven't you heard?
300 pounds
Count it out
Gets you 10 minutes
Of Mason Mount
Count it out
Gets you 10 minutes
Of Mason Mount
200k per week for Chelsea's Lingard and he's not interested. Christ. I guess that's where wages are and he can leverage the fact he's a youth product and they really won't want to lose him, but still, it's quite incredible the money that can be made when you're no way near a top tier player in the position.
I know you aren't defending Mount's performance but the reality is that Mount's average position in the USA game was higher than Kane and pretty much holding Sterling's hand on the left hand side. He was a good 20 yards further forward than Bellingham & Rice played pretty much directly behind him. If that's him performing as one of two 8s in a midfield 3 then it's astonishing he wasn't taken off regardless of performance level.