https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britains-worst-ever-child-grooming-12165527
Some cases date back to the 1980s. Absolutely shocking.
Massive child abuse scandal in Telford?
- Thread starter VorZakone
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Some cases date back to the 1980s. Absolutely shocking.
What the actual feck.
That's a bleak read. What the hell is wrong with these people.
Jesus how is this possible. 
I'm speechless.
Just can't comprehend there are sick fecks like that and can't comprehend how the hell they get away with it so long.
How is this possible in a small town? It's nearly impossible to keep it a secret for so long, I would assume. Atrocious. The perps deserve the worst legal punishment possible.
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It's happening all over the country and large parts of Europe too. How much of society needs to be eroded before people wake up to the fact that we have a problem?
Heads need to roll once again. Looks like Rotherham all over ie young girls from poor backgrounds treated by all and sundry including the authorities as disposable trash
And the "we don't like brown people" folk are going to have a field day unfortunately
And the "we don't like brown people" folk are going to have a field day unfortunately
Alternatively people will just notice and point out that the perps in these cases always seem to have a specific cultural background, and then be called racist for stating an undeniable fact.
As I have done previously, re Rochdale, in this very forum and got rounded on. I think there's clearly an issue there and the authorities fear of being labelled racist has played it's part in the abuse being allowed to continue.
My point stands ie racists get properly emboldened by this sort of stuff and no doubt will ignore the fact that, as per the report, young asian girls were being targeted too.
That’s well and good but unless it turns out that some of the perps are white then the racists will make hay regardless.
When it is the authorities doing the deed, who is going to report it? And to whom?
Also, one of my main worries with things like this is, how long before it is treated wholly as a sickness and they aim to treat rather than punish.
Scares me.
Yup. True unfortunately. The problem is stemming from Asian gangs, and alot of the abuse is taking part in the takeaway shops, whether you want to bury your head in the sand or not.
Without doubt and I expect they already are.
How is it not a sickness?
It leads down a strange path if you start to classify it as a "sickness" or as something that is normal but isn't accepted by society.
30 or 40 years ago I'm sure the argument was being made that gay people could be "cured", as they were seen as sick / non-conforming.
I'm not trying to conflate one with the other either.
Is it a sickness / can it be helped? Are you born like that? Do you use it as a guise for your inner cruelty? I don't know where to start. Listening to what those convicted have to say is surely a way to reduce the threat to vulnerable children but at the same time I don't want it to become "acceptable" in any way either.
To me a sickness affects the one with the illness, in this case they are harming others.
Sick in the head maybe.
As said above, start to classify it as an illness is the start to accepting it and in my opinion that is a VERY dangerous path.
Child sexual abuse has been seen as an illness for years now, and rightfully so. However that doesn't stop it being a crime, the very worst imho. It will always continue to be a crime and it will always continue to be punishable by incarceration with very long jail sentences, as it should be. However that doesn't mean that whilst in prison those convicted shouldn't be allowed to be treated, the same as any criminal is treated or attempts at rehabilitation are made.
I think anyone thinking that just by calling it a sickness or illness means that is opening a door for it to be used as an excuse to not jail offenders are Waaaaaay off the mark.
I think anyone thinking that just by calling it a sickness or illness means that is opening a door for it to be used as an excuse to not jail offenders are Waaaaaay off the mark.
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Assume you mean paedophilia has?
Yes I did. I originally wrote child sexual abuse, dunno how it changed. Nvm. Will edit it anyway. Thanks for pointing it out.
I don't think you're conflating at all. It's my go to question when people discuss "being born gay" as being in their genes from birth. Not forgetting the gay dogs and ducks that have been presented as exhibit A.
Surely, similar things happen with young in the wild? Its obviously not right in the human race as children don't have the option to decide but if gays can be born like that then why not some paedos? Therefore, not a sickness but the essence of that person.
Maybe something for another thread.
If it's not an illness, or whatever term you want to use for it, does that mean that it's a normal sexual preference? If it's a normal sexual preference can it be "cured" / can you be rehabilitated properly? You can acknowledge that what you have done is wrong and the hurt and pain it causes to others but if it's normal it can't just be switched off. I can't suddenly stop being attracted to women, so why would someone else be able to not fancy kids? This is also on the premise that it's primarily got to do with attraction and not power.
I didn't say that it should be an excuse not to jail offenders. If we accept that it's a normal preference, going by that reasoning it is society / culture which is mis-matched with natural human desires.
The problem with labelling it as an illness, in so far as I see it, is that it will start to make it acceptable to have these feelings towards children as long as it isn't acted upon, and that they can be "fixed".
I'm not really sure what my point is other than it's very complicated.
@Dumbstar - just seen your reply to my original post
Don’t think paedophilia is even relevant to this thread tbh. Sounds as though all the victims were post-pubescent.
Of course, and don't worry I get it. I so get the hypocrisy in my view as I am 100% against gay conversion therapy as I think It's disgusting as being gay is not something someone can choose. I think some paedophiles are probably born like it too, however at no point will sexually abusing small children or babies become acceptable and nor should it, so I don't quite know where we can go from here in the discussion as you say, It's exceptionally complicated.
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Ahh my apologies, I thought some were very young, at least some reports I had seen led me to believe that. And yes, I think that discussion is for another thread if a mod wants to move the posts?
Or...how is it a sickness?
OP talks about kids “as young as 11” but they could still post-pubescent. At that point we’re into varying cultural/legal perceptions about how long someone who is sexually mature should still be considered a “child”, rather than actual paedophilia.
Anyway, the issue here is much more than just the age of consent. By all accounts a lot of what happened was non-consensual and/or coerced inappropriately.
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Consider another example, psychopaths. They're born that way, and we don't have any kind of cure to stop them being psychopaths. They reckon there are a lot more of them out there than we'd like to think, but the vast majority simply gravitate towards positions such as CEO's, surgeons, lawyers, police rather than turning into killers. Society in effect provides (accidentally) non-harmful outlets that prevent them from becoming a threat to society (well that's debatable, but at least they're not butchering people).
With paedophiles we don't know if they're born that way. It seems that a huge percentage of people who end up like that were victims themselves, which must put some serious question marks over the born theory. If it did turn out that a substantial number of people were born like that however and we couldn't cure them, maybe its worth while looking for possible outlets that allow them to function without hurting others?
I was thinking about both of your points as well when I wrote my post.
This will be my last post in here as I think it's derailing the thread, but briefly...
1 - Being a psychopath doesn't target one group of people ie kids. Also, are paedos psychopaths to some degree?
2 - Like sex robots made to look like children? Deepfakes?
That's not something I think should be entertained at all.
Anyways...If someone wants to make a thread about it I'll post my 2 cents in there instead. But I really don't know how much further the discussion can go than has already been said.
It isn't an illness it's a fetish and people acting on that fetish by hurting, abusing and ruining lives are no different to a man who rapes a woman because he's going through a dry spell. IE a selfish pyschopath and likely a sadist
And no most paedophiles get very light sentences in the UK
They almost have a 100% re-offending rate so no paedophile is ever rehabilitatied and given most are pyschopathic sadists they never actually want to be rehabilitated.
Are you aware that paedophile's coach other paedophiles to lie about being abused as children in order to:
A) Get lighter sentences B) get parole C) pretend to get treatment while networking with other paedos in order to commit acts in the future
Having a sexual attraction alone isn't psychotic. Inflicting sexual abuse and mental trauma in order to get off because of that attraction is completely psychotic.
It's the crux of the matter, people will claim the government are too afraid to do anything. Truth is, the fact we have a baying media ready to villifiy only serves to act as a detriment to the pursuit of justice.
It's quite clear any perceived injustice with racial undertones will only incite division amongst the people. I can scarcely remember a year untouched by atrocities such as this. Yet our hierarchy continues to fumble around for fear of being branded racist.
The other thing is it's not a problem that will just disappear, our response to it has basically been, have at it. The community it concerns will do no more than condemn.
Sad and sorry state of affairs.
That just sounds like an emotional reaction to something that (understandably) makes you angry rather than anything factual. Many paedophiles appear to suffer greatly from what they do, and desperately try to convince themselves that the kids like it so that they don't have to confront the reality of the pain they're causing. A psychopath wouldn't bother, as they wouldn't give a single feck about any pain others might be feeling.
Sounds like bollocks to be honest. Most paedos aren't part of some elaborate network.
Absolutely it would be, but from accounts of paedophiles who have managed to go their lives without acting on their impulses, their attraction has absolutely nothing to do with intentionally causing mental trauma to others. In fact thats why they dont act on their impulses.
Complex subject though. I can see the arguments for attempting to find treatments, or finding safe outlets and trying to minimize harm but also those for permanent incarceration or humane execution if that isn't possible. I just think these people are seriously ill (or deeply traumatized themselves) and not some psychopathic stone cold predators. I think putting them in that kind of category vastly reduces the chances of paedophiles self-identifying and seeking help and counselling, which a few currently do. I'd like to see that number increased not decreased.
I am learning that specific ethnicity in England (Europe?) have this issue. Why is this the case? Same ethnicity in States, or other developed countries are not known for this. Why is that? I really want to know.
I hope this does not seem racist (I am a minority myself!) but I sometimes feel like majority of the immigrants that go to England or Europe are the very poor ones in their home nation. The least educated ones. The rudest ones. This gives a bad name to their country of origin as well. However, can this sickness be related to lack of education? I really don't know.
I just don't know why England/Europe has this problem and rest of the world doesn't. Think it's a complex issue and I certainly don't have the answer. One thing I do know is the western world in general needs strict punishments.
I hope this does not seem racist (I am a minority myself!) but I sometimes feel like majority of the immigrants that go to England or Europe are the very poor ones in their home nation. The least educated ones. The rudest ones. This gives a bad name to their country of origin as well. However, can this sickness be related to lack of education? I really don't know.
I just don't know why England/Europe has this problem and rest of the world doesn't. Think it's a complex issue and I certainly don't have the answer. One thing I do know is the western world in general needs strict punishments.
Firstly lets not pretend there aren't issues of racism and when a large group of Pakistani Muslim men on mass gangrape predominantly white children. Often there's justifications of 'dirty white girl', 'infidels' etc alongside a cultural misogyny in order to justify abhorent behaviour. At trial their mothers/relatives blame the victims.
White racist groups won't get as much leverage if these issues are actually dealt with properly. The BNP were gaining traction from rape gangs long before they gained media attention. This and Rotherham is all the tip of an iceberg that in reality needs greater police powers to either protect children or deal with the perpetrators, maybe some type of restraining orders that allow the police to order suspects they don't have adequate evidence to make charges with have to keep a distance from a list of vulnerable girls.
Before we start let's distingusish between 'child abusers' and 'paedophiles'
It's not emotional reaction because at it's base level pyschopathy is lacking complete empathy for others. Certain child abuse has incredible levels of sadism and pain with the perpetrators revelling in that sadism. Now I don't see how anyone could commit that level of abuse without being a psychopath. Obviously there's levels in between
I'm not sure an child abuser justifying what they do as necessarily meaning they have genuine remorse and have empathy for their victims. A rapist states 'she was asking for it', 'she wanted it', 'she's a cheap slut' to justify his acts, it's still lacking empathy for the victim. Even Don Trump tries hard to justify his actions but it's apparent he has little to no human empathy. Essentially the child abuser still wants to be able to manipulate people and be liked so what they say doesn't necessarily ring true.
You don't think paedos chat to other paedos online and in prison over common interests?
The young paedophiles who say they don’t abuse children
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41213657
But re-offending is higher than any other criminal. Bare in mind the following:
What is the profile of a child molester? An average child molester will offend 200–400 times before being caught, if ever. The vast majority of offenders do not get caught, and they have no criminal records.
@Kentonio this shows the amount of child abusers claiming to be abused versus the number that claimed to be abused while polygraph. Now bare in mind a true sociopath will have less problems passing a polygraph test. Either way the majority that claim to be abused are in fact lying.
https://ccoso.org/sites/default/fil...ding-of-Sex-Offenders--Hindman-and-Peters.pdf
https://ccoso.org/sites/default/fil...ding-of-Sex-Offenders--Hindman-and-Peters.pdf
What? Is there any link to back this up? Seems like somebody is trying to justify the actions of an abuser to me.
And appearing to suffer and actually suffering are quite different.
I'm genuinely speechless, I think at the scale especially. Appalling.
Well, it has been defined as a mental sickness by medical journals and accepts as such within the medical community, I presume. Not that I'm an expert here.
But for the me whole point is irrelevant. Whoever suffers from this needs to get themselves treated....before they can act on it. It should however in no way treated like an insanity plea and claimed that they are not responsible due to their illness. Harsher penalties needs to be imposed.