Good points. Guler, Cherki all these kind of players who are 100% in technical terms (at the very least). Your Marmoush point is actually an excellent one and an interesting angle to look at this from.You'd be targeting 15 again in a healthy season, sure, but I'd still say double figures is likely a success depending on everything else. He's not just goals.
We probably could get Guler if we really wanted to but I think Cunha would be the better signing. We know he can play in 30 Premier League games every season which we've hopefully learnt is both an undervalued trait and an important thing to check. We know he can decide matches at Old Trafford too, which we can't say about most of the players who play there every week. That's pedigree to go with the potential to take the next step up the ladder, if we're really lucky maybe even in Raphinha-like fashion. I think Cunha's the right sort of age to be targeting for the big money transfers, where we have a both a body of evidence and a realistic expectation that he'll maintain his level over a 5-year contract and still be useful to somebody afterwards.
Its not just us who've thrown it around, it's everyone, which is why I didn't just point to our own expensive signings. I do think people are quick to only look at the value of signings in hindsight and at the time £70m for Sancho didn't really seem that bizarre from what I recall. Look what Bundesliga's best is going for now. The Cunha cost is Marmoush money, and I'd rather have the Brazilian than him.
He's 2 and a half years older than he was when Wolves signed him. That's very likely half of his prime years.Wolves paid £44m and his release clause is £62.5m. What do you mean by effective worth?
They might not, but if that's all he's worth then you don't buy that player.The question you’d actually have to ask is why selling club would sell at same fee as paid for player.
He's 2 and a half years older than he was when Wolves signed him. That's very likely half of his prime years.
He's 2 and a half years older than he was when Wolves signed him. That's very likely half of his prime years.
I mean it's context was abundantly obvious given the course of the conversation. It's only arbitrary if you decide to interject yourself into it without reading the rest of the exchange.Ok so 'effective worth' is some arbitrary personal measure you've come up with. I thought it something like that.
I think he will be value for what we payThey might not, but if that's all he's worth then you don't buy that player.
Cool.I think he will be value for what we pay
There's no doubt that Cunha is a good player.They also tend to get business done early or else they risk having potential sellers refusing to accept anything but a silly bid because they know we're desperate to buy. See Antony/Fellaini/Casemiro/Hojlund etc
United transfers since Fergie left have been far more in the category of doing business late and massively overpaying than business done early.
I'm fine with us signing Cunha and then bringing Rashford back into the squad as competition unless we receive a suitable offer, same for Anthony. This should be the club's official stance since while ultimately I think neither are good enough to get us winning premier leagues or champions leagues they're both assets who would improve our squad and we shouldn't be paying them to play elsewhere.
There's no doubt that Cunha is a good player.
However top honors aren't won by individuals. It's won by having a good balance in the team. SAF's last side was possibly the weakest throughout his reign and it won the EPL title. There are other sides who weren't spectacularly good but had the right balance to win some important trophies including Euro winner Greece and Italy, Ranieri's Leicester, Zaccheroni's and Pioli's AC Milan + a countless number of Juventus sides.
When I watch United I can see 4 major weaknesses
a- STK. Neither striker is good enough to be an EPL striker. Zirkzee is a no 10 while Hojlund's positioning and movement is simply not good enough. I think that we need at least 1 striker, possibly 2 (a top striker and a cover Delap style)
b- GK: Neither keeper is good enough for United as well. That's a problem because defenders are programmed to defend against what's in front of them not at their back. When they lose trust in the GK then mistakes will happen irrespective if the CB is Heaven/Yoro or Rio/Stam
c- CM. Our CM is simply too lightweight for the EPL. Ugarte does the job but he's no Roy Keane and he therefore needs help. Casemiro can't provide that on week in week out basis, Mainoo is not athletic enough, Mount is a no 10 and Eriksen's legs are gone. We need a B2B midfielder, possibly also a DM as cover for Ugarte.
d- RWB. That's a central role in a Amorim's system and neither Dalot nor Mazraoui can provide the attacking input needed for that role. I actually struggle to understand what Dalot bring to the table rather then availability. He's not great going forward, he's not great when defending. He reminds me of a very poor version of Phil Neville with the difference that Phil wasn't a WB. But that's an argument for another day
So that's 4 positions, at least 5 players (I'd say 6) that we need
Now let's have a look at no 10. We've got Bruno whose a top player and Amad whose not that far from being first team level. Zirkzee and Garnacho are good enough as cover/competitors, Mount is a wildcard if he can remain fit and Mainoo's future lay as a no 10. Then we mustn't forget that Sancho, Antony and Rashford are still on our payroll. Some might say that they will never play for us again. However they are still on our payroll which means that their salary is being paid by us. If we want additional funds then at least 2 out of 3 need to move elsewhere for a decent fee.
I repeat I like Cunha. However we've already got 9 no 10s (Bruno, Amad, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Mainoo, Mount, Sancho, Antony and Rashford). Unless we get rid of at least 5 of them for a fee then I do question adding another no 10.
I think that my post is fair. However please tell me where you disagree with itNow fans are moaning about signing him, thought it was sounding too positive to be true
I just think he’s made for this club and don't have any concerns whatsoever about the potential signingI think that my post is fair. However please tell me where you disagree with it
I think that my post is fair. However please tell me where you disagree with it
There's no doubt that Cunha is a good player.
However top honors aren't won by individuals. It's won by having a good balance in the team. SAF's last side was possibly the weakest throughout his reign and it won the EPL title. There are other sides who weren't spectacularly good but had the right balance to win some important trophies including Euro winner Greece and Italy, Ranieri's Leicester, Zaccheroni's and Pioli's AC Milan + a countless number of Juventus sides.
When I watch United I can see 4 major weaknesses
a- STK. Neither striker is good enough to be an EPL striker. Zirkzee is a no 10 while Hojlund's positioning and movement is simply not good enough. I think that we need at least 1 striker, possibly 2 (a top striker and a cover Delap style)
b- GK: Neither keeper is good enough for United as well. That's a problem because defenders are programmed to defend against what's in front of them not at their back. When they lose trust in the GK then mistakes will happen irrespective if the CB is Heaven/Yoro or Rio/Stam
c- CM. Our CM is simply too lightweight for the EPL. Ugarte does the job but he's no Roy Keane and he therefore needs help. Casemiro can't provide that on week in week out basis, Mainoo is not athletic enough, Mount is a no 10 and Eriksen's legs are gone. We need a B2B midfielder, possibly also a DM as cover for Ugarte.
d- RWB. That's a central role in a Amorim's system and neither Dalot nor Mazraoui can provide the attacking input needed for that role. I actually struggle to understand what Dalot bring to the table rather then availability. He's not great going forward, he's not great when defending. He reminds me of a very poor version of Phil Neville with the difference that Phil wasn't a WB. But that's an argument for another day
So that's 4 positions, at least 5 players (I'd say 6) that we need
Now let's have a look at no 10. We've got Bruno whose a top player and Amad whose not that far from being first team level. Zirkzee and Garnacho are good enough as cover/competitors, Mount is a wildcard if he can remain fit and Mainoo's future lay as a no 10. Then we mustn't forget that Sancho, Antony and Rashford are still on our payroll. Some might say that they will never play for us again. However they are still on our payroll which means that their salary is being paid by us. If we want additional funds then at least 2 out of 3 need to move elsewhere for a decent fee.
I repeat I like Cunha. However we've already got 9 no 10s (Bruno, Amad, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Mainoo, Mount, Sancho, Antony and Rashford). Unless we get rid of at least 5 of them for a fee then I do question adding another no 10.
Yeah that would probably be my order of priority, however would make it Striker x2 but know we won't do it. Ideally that midfielder has the capability to play in both a 6 and 8 role. I would say one of each but that's definitely outside our budget.Not the poster you quoted, but I disagree with your assertion that we're doing OK in the 10 position.
Firstly, a striker is definitely something we need, we're awful at putting the ball in the net and it's holding us back more than anything else. But we're also really wasteful when it comes to turning dangerous situations into chances.
Of the 9 players you listed, the final 3 can be immediately discounted, it's clear they have no future at the club. Of the rest, we have two youngsters, Garnacho and Mainoo, who aren't good enough to start yet and could potentially be sold, a natural 10 in Mount who can't be relied upon to stay fit for any period of time, Zirzkee who has potential there but the jury is still out, and then easily our best 2 attacking players in Bruno and Amad, both of whom are potentially better used in other positions in this system.
I actually agree with the other weaknesses you've identified, but disagree on the order of priority (which I think is influenced by who's available to sign).
I'd have the order looking like this:
- Striker - self explanatory, we need more goals, Hojlund isn't nearly good enough, none of our other strikers are ready, Zirkzee doesn't fit the position.
- A 10 - for the reasons above, plus we need more goals, and importantly there are quality options available that have the ability and athleticism to thrive in the premier league, something we're sorely lacking.
- CM - we need a progressive passer who has good athleticism, we're bullied in midfield in the PL, Ugarte has the legs but limited ability but in fairness is often having to do the work of almost 2 players, Casemiro's legs have gone entirely.
- GK - agreed with your summary, but while Onana makes mistakes, he's likely difficult to move on without taking a loss. I expect we'll be stuck with him for another season yet.
- RWB - agreed with your summary, but I think you were forgetting Amad, who can tear it up there if he stays fit.
Who in the majority aren't good enough as we have one of the worst attacks in the league. Out of them only bruno(best games this season at cm) and amad (best games this season at rwb) can actually hold their heads up highThere's no doubt that Cunha is a good player.
However top honors aren't won by individuals. It's won by having a good balance in the team. SAF's last side was possibly the weakest throughout his reign and it won the EPL title. There are other sides who weren't spectacularly good but had the right balance to win some important trophies including Euro winner Greece and Italy, Ranieri's Leicester, Zaccheroni's and Pioli's AC Milan + a countless number of Juventus sides.
When I watch United I can see 4 major weaknesses
a- STK. Neither striker is good enough to be an EPL striker. Zirkzee is a no 10 while Hojlund's positioning and movement is simply not good enough. I think that we need at least 1 striker, possibly 2 (a top striker and a cover Delap style)
b- GK: Neither keeper is good enough for United as well. That's a problem because defenders are programmed to defend against what's in front of them not at their back. When they lose trust in the GK then mistakes will happen irrespective if the CB is Heaven/Yoro or Rio/Stam
c- CM. Our CM is simply too lightweight for the EPL. Ugarte does the job but he's no Roy Keane and he therefore needs help. Casemiro can't provide that on week in week out basis, Mainoo is not athletic enough, Mount is a no 10 and Eriksen's legs are gone. We need a B2B midfielder, possibly also a DM as cover for Ugarte.
d- RWB. That's a central role in a Amorim's system and neither Dalot nor Mazraoui can provide the attacking input needed for that role. I actually struggle to understand what Dalot bring to the table rather then availability. He's not great going forward, he's not great when defending. He reminds me of a very poor version of Phil Neville with the difference that Phil wasn't a WB. But that's an argument for another day
So that's 4 positions, at least 5 players (I'd say 6) that we need
Now let's have a look at no 10. We've got Bruno whose a top player and Amad whose not that far from being first team level. Zirkzee and Garnacho are good enough as cover/competitors, Mount is a wildcard if he can remain fit and Mainoo's future lay as a no 10. Then we mustn't forget that Sancho, Antony and Rashford are still on our payroll. Some might say that they will never play for us again. However they are still on our payroll which means that their salary is being paid by us. If we want additional funds then at least 2 out of 3 need to move elsewhere for a decent fee.
I repeat I like Cunha. However we've already got 9 no 10s (Bruno, Amad, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Mainoo, Mount, Sancho, Antony and Rashford). Unless we get rid of at least 5 of them for a fee then I do question adding another no 10.
First of all we need to analyze where we are and our short term goal. We're currently at 16th place and next year we're aiming for a top 6 finish. After that we have to have a look at the finances. If the media is to be believed then we've got a limited budget, some suggesting a 60m-80m bar sales. After that we do that we need to have a quick look at the squad and identify our major weaknesses. In my opinion our major weakness per priority isNot the poster you quoted, but I disagree with your assertion that we're doing OK in the 10 position.
Firstly, a striker is definitely something we need, we're awful at putting the ball in the net and it's holding us back more than anything else. But we're also really wasteful when it comes to turning dangerous situations into chances.
Of the 9 players you listed, the final 3 can be immediately discounted, it's clear they have no future at the club. Of the rest, we have two youngsters, Garnacho and Mainoo, who aren't good enough to start yet and could potentially be sold, a natural 10 in Mount who can't be relied upon to stay fit for any period of time, Zirzkee who has potential there but the jury is still out, and then easily our best 2 attacking players in Bruno and Amad, both of whom are potentially better used in other positions in this system.
I actually agree with the other weaknesses you've identified, but disagree on the order of priority (which I think is influenced by who's available to sign).
I'd have the order looking like this:
- Striker - self explanatory, we need more goals, Hojlund isn't nearly good enough, none of our other strikers are ready, Zirkzee doesn't fit the position.
- A 10 - for the reasons above, plus we need more goals, and importantly there are quality options available that have the ability and athleticism to thrive in the premier league, something we're sorely lacking.
- CM - we need a progressive passer who has good athleticism, we're bullied in midfield in the PL, Ugarte has the legs but limited ability but in fairness is often having to do the work of almost 2 players, Casemiro's legs have gone entirely.
- GK - agreed with your summary, but while Onana makes mistakes, he's likely difficult to move on without taking a loss. I expect we'll be stuck with him for another season yet.
- RWB - agreed with your summary, but I think you were forgetting Amad, who can tear it up there if he stays fit.
I wouldn’t feel such a strong need to sign him IF we had a proven goalscorer, sadly INEOS are obsessed with signing youth potential so that's not happening.First of all we need to analyze where we are and our short term goal. We're currently at 16th place and next year we're aiming for a top 6 finish. After that we have to have a look at the finances. If the media is to be believed then we've got a limited budget, some suggesting a 60m-80m bar sales. After that we do that we need to have a quick look at the squad and identify our major weaknesses. In my opinion our major weakness per priority is
a- STK. We simply do not have one. Hojlund is not good enough, Zirkzee is a no 10 and Obi is still a kid
b- GK. GK is the very foundation of defense. A shaky GK will panic an entire defense and that will result in goals. Neither keeper is remotely good enough
c- CM - We're too weak in that role. Mainoo is not athletic enough, Casemiro lack the legs to produce on a week in week out basis, Colyer is a DM cover at best and Eriksen is set to leave
d- RWB- its a highly specialized position were a player must be able to be good in everything (defending, attacking etc). Gaz himself said that he can't imagine himself being a wingback at United's level. Now I am aware that Amorim had played wingers in that role. There again he did so in a league were the likes of Darwin Nunes and Trincao looked like prime Alan Shearer and Paul Scholes . The EPL is a whole different cup of tea and quite frankly I can't see Diallo being a RWB.
Which leads us to the no 10 role. We currently have nine no 10s which vary from our best player (Bruno) whose a goal/assist machine to three of the most talented young players we've got (Mainoo, Amad and Garnacho) right to four of the most paid players at the club (Rashford, Mount, Antony and Sancho). Then there's Zirkzee who started slowly but is improving. If you ask me, the no 10 role is one of the strongest positions we've got. Is it anywhere near to a title contending side. Probably not. Do I want Cunha? Yes. However I can't help thinking that with our finances being so tight then unless we sell most of those players then we would be better off investing in other roles.
First of all we need to analyze where we are and our short term goal. We're currently at 16th place and next year we're aiming for a top 6 finish. After that we have to have a look at the finances. If the media is to be believed then we've got a limited budget, some suggesting a 60m-80m bar sales. After that we do that we need to have a quick look at the squad and identify our major weaknesses. In my opinion our major weakness per priority is
a- STK. We simply do not have one. Hojlund is not good enough, Zirkzee is a no 10 and Obi is still a kid
b- GK. GK is the very foundation of defense. A shaky GK will panic an entire defense and that will result in goals. Neither keeper is remotely good enough
c- CM - We're too weak in that role. Mainoo is not athletic enough, Casemiro lack the legs to produce on a week in week out basis, Colyer is a DM cover at best and Eriksen is set to leave
d- RWB- its a highly specialized position were a player must be able to be good in everything (defending, attacking etc). Gaz himself said that he can't imagine himself being a wingback at United's level. Now I am aware that Amorim had played wingers in that role. There again he did so in a league were the likes of Darwin Nunes and Trincao looked like prime Alan Shearer and Paul Scholes . The EPL is a whole different cup of tea and quite frankly I can't see Diallo being a RWB.
Which leads us to the no 10 role. We currently have nine no 10s which vary from our best player (Bruno) whose a goal/assist machine to three of the most talented young players we've got (Mainoo, Amad and Garnacho) right to four of the most paid players at the club (Rashford, Mount, Antony and Sancho). Then there's Zirkzee who started slowly but is improving. If you ask me, the no 10 role is one of the strongest positions we've got. Is it anywhere near to a title contending side. Probably not. Do I want Cunha? Yes. However I can't help thinking that with our finances being so tight then unless we sell most of those players then we would be better off investing in other roles.
My view would do a 180 if we already have deals lined up for Bruno (rumored to be wanted by Saudi), Garnacho (Napoli), Sancho (Chelsea?), Antony (Betis/Atletico?) and possibly Zirkzee. In that case we need to secure Cunha like yesterday.
I repeat I like Cunha. However we've already got 9 no 10s (Bruno, Amad, Zirkzee, Garnacho, Mainoo, Mount, Sancho, Antony and Rashford). Unless we get rid of at least 5 of them for a fee then I do question adding another no 10.
Bold part - that is so true. The no 10 position isn't the first position to fix. But I guess the release clause is what makes him a target.
Yeah that would probably be my order of priority, however would make it Striker x2 but know we won't do it. Ideally that midfielder has the capability to play in both a 6 and 8 role. I would say one of each but that's definitely outside our budget.
Getting it back on topic I just hope these shambolic performances in the league aren't making him think twice about joining us because could understand that.
I wont say that you are wrong, but we do miss players on other position that need to be fixed before a Cunha is signed. Therefor I think the release clause is of importance. We would not have had interest in him if his price tag was closer to say 80-90 million.It is not true at all and is absolute nonsense.
Bruno is better further back and is not what Amorim wants from his number 10's.
Amad is perfect for one of the 10's with Cunha as the other, pressing ability, pace, power and ability to drive forward with the ball.
Zirkzee is clearly not suited to the role, he is too slow and doesn't press well enough.
Garnacho is too raw and his finishing is dreadful.
Mainoo will never work as a 10. He is too slow, has poor stamina and is barely able to press.
Mount if fit has the ability to be a number 10 starter but can not be trusted to stay fit.
Sancho, Rashford and Antony will be gone in the summer and are not good enough anyway.
Just because the team has a number of players that can play as an attacking mid, doesn't mean they are good enough for the role
So sell Garnacho, Mount and Mainoo? Cunha and Mbueno would cost 120m.People saying we are well stocked with number 10s are mad. None of them are consistent apart from Bruno and maybe Amad, but Bruno is rotating into midfield and Amad has to stay free from injury for a while yet.
I'd sign Cunha and Mbeumo if possible. We desperately need consistent goals.
Cunha is a very creative passer and is very dangerous around the edge of the box plus a good ball carrier.
His weakness is probably workrate off the ball.
I just can't get on board with your analysis of our strength in the 10 position, it's coming across as deliberately misleading given who you're including. We simply don't have 9 players there. Sancho, Antony, and Rashford are extremely unlikely to be here next season, and can't be relied upon if they are. Mainoo and Garnacho both have huge amounts of work to do in order to be of the quality we need from players in that 10 position, they should be impact substitutes at most for the foreseeable future. Mount has managed an average of 5.5 games of football in the league per season during his time here, so clearly can't be relied upon. That leaves Zirkzee, who is improving but is still a rotation option at best, Amad, who's arguably better deployed at RWB, and Bruno, who Amorim potentially wants in a central midfield position so that the game is in front of him more.
We agree generally about our other weaknesses, and that striker is number one priority.
Not necessarily. Although I would sell Mount if a decent offer came in and would consider selling Mainoo. Mainoo can play deeper too at least.So sell Garnacho, Mount and Mainoo? Cunha and Mbueno would cost 120m.
Yeah in an ideal world we had the financial muscle to sign both, maybe then I could understand trying to bring in Delap to supplement their goal output tooPeople saying we are well stocked with number 10s are mad. None of them are consistent apart from Bruno and maybe Amad, but Bruno is rotating into midfield and Amad has to stay free from injury for a while yet.
I'd sign Cunha and Mbeumo if possible. We desperately need consistent goals.
Cunha is a very creative passer and is very dangerous around the edge of the box plus a good ball carrier.
His weakness is probably workrate off the ball.
Don't think we are even interestedI like Mbeumo but for the same money you can sign Eze, who in my view is the best 10 in the Country at present. Move Garnacho on and replace him with Eze and suddenly this team looks a lot different.
Not if we then have a coach who favours 433. Cunha simply plays the role Rashford used toYou are lost if you’ve watched this season and don’t think the #10s and striker aren’t priority. In a perfect world only Amad and Bruno would be here next season. The others need to be moved on for a successful season.
Still don’t think Cunha is the 1 though, he would become a liability should Amorim fail and we move on from 343.
Report from Brazil.
Typical ABU. Had to boost up the number to make us look bad.
An interesting notion. That anyone has to come up with extra stuff 'to make us look bad'.Typical ABU. Had to boost up the number to make us look bad.
Report from Brazil.
