When he actually plays it's not true, he is arguably their best player but you can't really claim that someone that has played 50% of their games this season and hasn't been at his best is their best performer. That's stretching it a bit too far.
Mauricio Amadaeus Pochettino | Chelsea sack watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
- Status
Meant it more in a "psg have always kind of struggled without him"
Mbappe hasn't been their best performer consistently throughout the season. As stated earlier on it was Herrera, gueye and hakimi. Mbappe has recently been doing better and has surpassed those players aforementioned. However, he sits at 9th in terms of top scorers in ligue 1. That isn't good considering it is supposedly a poor league and Mbappe is supposedly worth £200m. If mbappe becomes more clinical, he can definitely get top scorer as he gets lots of chances. But to say he isn't underperforming is inaccurate considering the status of the player. Mbappe can definitely be doing much better than he is. Today though was a good start and showed the Mbappe that we all know.
So you agree that as of today he is their best performer, I'm gald that we settled this one. And what kind of argument are "supposedly a poor league and supposedly worth 200m"? Also are you going to ignore that he tops the assists ranking?
Best performer is consistently changing. As stated before earlier on it was the three I mentioned. Now only recently it has been mbappe, Marquinhos and Verratti. I would say Verratti and Marquinhos is their best performer when you look beyond the goal and assists stats. They have been consistently good whenever they play, whereas mbappe has been inconsistent throughout the season.
Hes such an amazing player but my point is a talent who has publicly confirmed he isnt sticking around is going to he trickier to coach into a system that takes time to bed in. Especially when certain instructions such as working off the ball aren't naturally suited to him in the first place.
Seriously
Are you seriously suggesting his head isnt in Madrid? He is repeatedly talking about how he wont hang around PSG beyond the season.
Its his own quotes?You are on a Manchester United forum remember
People have been "seeing things" for years that nobody else can see outside of this fanbase
Ok?
Its about the infrastructure there, I just named the issues with the dynamics at the club which make it difficult for managers to settle in. You think its fine for managers at PSG relative to other clubs? Its obviously not.
Every single manager bar Ancelotti (who wanted the Real Madrid job) has completed at least 2 full seasons at PSG since the takeover.
That's your assumption. I don't think a professional like Mbappe is going to be trickier to coach because of his future plans, he's a professional.
As far as your second point, I do think Mbappe is leaving as was always the plan, but he is not repeatedly talking about how he won't hang around, that's just not true.
4-1 suggests a complete inability to keep a clean sheet. Do not want. Bottlejob.
Why is it any worse than Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich & Chelsea - who's managers last even less than psg?
What makes you think that his head is in Madrid and he hasn't repeatedly talked about what he is going to do beyond this season, he has actually kept that to himself.
I dont think Mbappe is receptive to working off the ball, and I dont think its a stretch to say hed be far more likely to be receptive if this was instructed to him early in a Madrid project rather than the end of a PSG one.
I think he has spoken about moving on around twice at least in the past year no? The most obvious one being in October when he provided context on the transfer request and said he rejected six or seven renewal offers. Another I think last season when the owners reacted by saying he sill stay even after his contract expires (which sounded a bit threatening).. Although I cant find his quotes from then.
Because Leo buys who he wants without giving two fecks about the manager wishes and the manager gets a call from upstairs if he wants to bench big players. Its worth reading up on even what Tuchel had to say about the managerial role at PSG and what it was like for Leo.
Poch has said a while ago in fact that he is isnt here for his project but PSGs project. Almost as though to say hes adapting to the club and isnt putting his stamp as he would like. He probably regrets accepting the post. This isnt my views or takeaways by the way, it was from an Athletic affiliated podcast from weeks ago. At a time they were coasting double digits clear of 1st and I think beat City 2-0. So its not even like his back was pressed against the wall when he said this.
In any case, my point is this is not about Poch as much as it is about the PSG model being unfavorable for most managers to make their mark. I think Zidane is the only guy who can maybe get the success they want, and only because no big player can stand up to him with an ego given his playing career.
Last edited:
And that's different from madrid, barcelona, bayern and chelsea how...?
Well at Chelsea the club wouldn't purchase Shevchenko without the approval of the manager, at Bayern the club wouldn't sign Neuer without the approval of the manager, at Real Madrid the club would let the manager bench Cristiano Ronaldo without problem and at Barcelona Messi would have no influence.
Managers have more of a say at these clubs, at least positionally on what they are after. Of course there may be a big player thrust upon them, I am not denying this. But do you think Tuchel reckons its the same working under Marina Granovskaia as it is under Leonardo?
Also worth noting the previous manager said his role felt more PR and political than just being head coach. He had to manage families of players and thats not the case at most other clubs. Some quotes here https://www.google.com/amp/s/psgtal...-preference-managing-at-chelsea-over-psg/amp/
What makes you think that managers have more say at these clubs? Are we going to act as if he didn't get players that he wanted liked Gueye, Kehrer or Choupo-Moting. And being a head coach in a big club will be political everywhere. It's also worth remembering that Tuchel had issues with his previous employer, people are acting as if he wasn't himself a source of trouble.
You're right, but twice in a year is not repeatedly in my view. Today, he's not committing to leaving or staying, which is pretty standard, one of those 'the future, only God knows' type of answer.
As far as Madrid getting Mbappe to press early on in their project, I don't think that's going to happen either. They know who they're trying to get, and they'll work around that, like they did for CR7.
Ancelotti wins the CL in his first season. He makes 2 requests: keep Di Maria. And when it looked like Flo wanted James: don't sign James. Flo tells him not to worry. The following day he signs James. At the end of the summer he sells Di Maria. Ancelotti in the end gets sacked in part because Bale has a subpar second season
Hell, Benitez subs out Bale in a game we win 10-2 and Bale scores 4 goals. At full time a furious Florentino Perez is berating him in the dressing room for subbing out Bale when he could have scored 5
Guardiola begged Bayern not to sell Kroos.
Chelsea? One of the reasons they went for Tuchel was his nationality - because they wanted someone to get the best out of Havertz and Werner
Eeeeeh. Honestly, where have you have been these last 3 years? Bale and his agent ring a bell? But ok. PSG entourages are more high maintenance than elsewhere.
Leonardo is not a patch on Florentino Perez though
I dont think Rangnick, Klopp, Pep or Conte would want to play PR for family members acting like divas. I dont think they would tolerate any of this in their remit.
Look you can go into any plausible scenario you want, maybe Leo is fine and its no different to any other club or maybe their model doesnt suit managers who need time to embed a system and needs the whole squad to buy into it. You can have your opinion, il have mine.
For me it is quite evident that PSG has too much player power and that wont serve well for any manager, let alone Poch. Even after Messi signed quite a few people wondered how the front 3 will operate in Pochs system. So it shouldn't be a surprise they arent consistently dominating.
Something to mention that Tuchel omitted, the family members he had to deal with are player agents, all of the people you mentioned have had, are and will deal with similar issues. Also that's why Rangnick, Conte and even Klopp haven't managed the likes of Bayern, Real Madrid, PSG or Barcelona. It's not for them and there is nothing wrong in it but it doesn't mean that PSG are special, they are not. As for Pep he managed Barcelona and went to the original FC Hollywood a club where Hoeness has never been able to shut up and where you better toe the line otherwise executives will crucify you publicly, they also don't care all that much about what you want, they only care about what benefits the club long term.
Conte would strangle a baby to coach any of those clubs. Don't know about Rangnick, but then Rangnick never had the coaching credentials to garner interest from them either
Klopp, maybe, ok. Klopp is weird. In case nobody noticed...
Klopp, maybe, ok. Klopp is weird. In case nobody noticed...
Conte would but these clubs make sure to avoid him, they generally know the king of character that is going to be a fit or not. They sometimes take a chance but Conte is way too dramatic.
Even earlier than that, they most of their summer budget on Havertz and Werner after a season in which Lampard's team conceded 54 goals in the league. They couldn't give a single feck about what he might have wanted, and just went and bought players they thought were the best fit.
Youre going to be more accurate than me on Madrid matters, and I would take them as being like PSG in such matters.
But the higher point I am making is clubs under such models do not suit managers with a philosophy needing patience and control with the whole squad buying into the hard work off the ball.
I don't think managers of this ilk suit PSG, and its not because one of these managers are "weird".
Since Poch arrived be beat City on aggregate, he dispatched of Barcelona and Bayern last season and hes currently well clear of the league. He isnt dominating every single game that came his way but I would be surprised if his predecessors did. Tuchel certainly didn't toward the end. The problem isnt Poch, the next manager will have similar issues with operating at the club.
I do think you're making valid points, but I'm glad @giorno pointed out the inconsistencies in assuming this only happens at PSG.
This season should be one that will shape PSG for the next few years. I don't expect QSI to stay forever, and the club could possibly go back to being mediocre, who knows? Until that happens, this season will be major in the sense that if this turns into the spectacular failure many are hoping for and, so far, are pretty well-inclined to believe, then you have to hope there will be major questions asked beyond the manager's role in this. The issue is that this team is so polarizing, that the bad becomes the worst and the good becomes the best when it's always more in the middle. They did get to a final and semi-final in the last two seasons, with different managers on back-to-back seasons, that's impressive to me. So I don't know if the issues are as bad as some want to make it out to be, I do think Leonardo is a problem, but maybe even Nasser is a problem in the culture he's fostering, but it's very difficult to actually verify that beyond hearsay.
I really hope we either win it all or fail spectacularly, otherwise I don't see real major shake ups besides the manager, and for as bad as I think Poch's progress has been for the last 11 months, a failure would have to put the onus on more than just the manager.
Psg looks a completely different team with Verratti in the midfield. As noted before, keeping him fit along with wiljinaldum will make their midfield more potent. Neymar getting injury has giving this psg team a bit more balance, but they are still short of a world class no.9 or an inverted right winger (Salah) from being an exceptional team. It is weird that whenever psg wins, the trolls has nothing positive to say. Regardless, I have gone through this many times before and I am more often than not right. If Pochettino is to challenge for a the champions league, Verrati and Marquinhos will have to stay fit. Moreover, Mbappe needs to be committed and 100% focused on winning the champions league with psg. So far in the past few games, Mbappe has been doing exceptional well. It is weird that psg has Messi and I do not consider him as one of their most important players.
They might better without him atm tbf.
Yea, it does look like that so far. Messi isn’t getting younger and I believe psg will thrive with a more dynamic, energetic attacker. I feel like he has at most 1 more year in him that he can play at such a high level. Even now, it seems he is struggling to keep up with the demand of the physicality of modern football.
Poor Pochettino
Very likely to be your next manager according to everything I'm hearing from the Spurs side.
What Spurs side ?
'ITK' from Spurs - the talk is he is almost certainly lined up as Utd manager next season.
United do seem to have a fixation for Pochettino.
Thanks but I am quite sceptical about so called ITK's credibility in general .
Yeah obviously take it with a pinch of salt.
Why do they think that?
Ugh.
Especially in this case - why should a Spurs source be reliable regarding a transfer from PSG to United?
Not keen on him at all
Better manager in Ten Hag will be available.
- Status