Maybe Lindelof isn’t the problem...

JPB

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He's missed so many easy headers I've actually lost count. He's a weakling too. He get's bullied by strong players all the time. Also if we play a high line the other team just lobs the ball over him and opposition players just run past him and leave him in their dust like a little child. He can't do anything. He can't defend, he's not strong, he hasn't got any pace and he's terrible in the air. He might be the worst CB I've ever seen at United. How anyone on this forum can make an argument for him being a decent defender beggars belief.
 

Ekeke

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I'm the same as every supporter in that its frustrating to see us flapping at the back. But I am inclined to give some leeway given how Ferdinand was viewed in his first year or two with us. He grew into the role and club. Might be we need to go through some hardship to help galvanise the defenders. But it is make or break season for a few of our players. We need results and they need to get them whatever way they can.
What?

Ferdinand was fine in his first years. We certainly never questioned if he actually wanted to be a defender because he would hide away from defending.
 

RashyForPM

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As another Swede, my view on Lindelöf is that he reads the game very well.
More of a player that defend and work as a team, trying to minimize the options for the attacker and make them choose a less appealing option.
If he could learn when to be more aggressive in his defending and bulk up some, I think he could be a real good defender.
Atm he irritates me when he is to passive, when aggression is needed.

Also I see Maguire as totally opposite player.
Strong and aggressive in his defending but reads the game very bad and have no clue how to force the attacker to make bad options.
Always taking a step up to attack the ball, good when he wins the ball, leaving a mess in the defense when he doesn't.
I think he's very inconsistent and weak aerially. In the National Team, he used to get bailed out by the senior leader Granqvist but it's fairly evident that we didn't spend 85 million on a leader in defense to team up with him.

In some games, he's bailed out United (let's not forget the Leicester game) and I think he's a good option to have at the club but the competition for starting spots at CB is very poor when he basically walks into the lineup every week.

I'd like to see a Upamecano or similar added to what we have and get rid of Bailly or Tuanzebe possibly to create a more competitive environment I honestly believe it would raise their game.
Yeah, from what I see at United, I must agree with you guys completely. He reads the game well and pulls off good interceptions and tackles at times, but he’s poor in the air and weak (his duels won % must be very low). Seeing him there gives average strikers like Mitrovic and Deeney joy and the feeling that it’ll be an easy day, which obviously isn’t great when the PL is full of these ‘hardmen’ strikers. On his ball-playing skills, I just don’t see it. It’s extremely inconsistent to say the least.
 

YzWayne

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He is the problem but he is not the only one.

De Gea as good as he was, has now deteriorated and he doesn't have that commanding presence in his 6 yard box and the last thing we want to talk about is saving penalties.

Maguire's movement is slow, passing is poor, and likes to dribble out of position to nowhere.

AWB is good at tackling but has a poor understanding on position and lack wisdom in attacks

Bailly has the talent but far way too inconsistent, and injury prone

Let the youngsters like Tuanzebe give it a go I would say, nothing is worse I feel.
 

Foxbatt

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You can get the best CB in the world but if the midfield is disjointed then they have no hope.
CBs should not be dragged out wide. We have our cbs dragged out wide and the midfield all over the place and the fbs not in place.
Lindelof is not a player who is good in heading the ball I agree.
But the way we play is also making it worse for our CBs.
 

Ekeke

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You can get the best CB in the world but if the midfield is disjointed then they have no hope.
CBs should not be dragged out wide. We have our cbs dragged out wide and the midfield all over the place and the fbs not in place.
Lindelof is not a player who is good in heading the ball I agree.
But the way we play is also making it worse for our CBs.
What :lol: This is basic defending. Vidic used to come out wide to cover Evra all the time. He wasnt the best at it and got beaten sometimes but he did it because its what you do as a defender if you have the slightest bit of awareness about your team.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Yeah, from what I see at United, I must agree with you guys completely. He reads the game well and pulls off good interceptions and tackles at times, but he’s poor in the air and weak (his duels won % must be very low). Seeing him there gives average strikers like Mitrovic and Deeney joy and the feeling that it’ll be an easy day, which obviously isn’t great when the PL is full of these ‘hardmen’ strikers. On his ball-playing skills, I just don’t see it. It’s extremely inconsistent to say the least.
Nope. Last 3 years 65.1%, 66.0%, 66.7% (so far this year). That's pretty much bang average - exceptionally poor CBs like Ake are around 53-55%, excellent ones in the air like VVD or Zouma are around 75-77%.
 

SmallCaine

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He's missed so many easy headers I've actually lost count. He's a weakling too. He get's bullied by strong players all the time. Also if we play a high line the other team just lobs the ball over him and opposition players just run past him and leave him in their dust like a little child. He can't do anything. He can't defend, he's not strong, he hasn't got any pace and he's terrible in the air. He might be the worst CB I've ever seen at United. How anyone on this forum can make an argument for him being a decent defender beggars belief.
What a load of bs? Have you ever watched him or are you just picking random quotes from the performance thread and combining it.

He is pretty quick, it would take someone like a rashford to outpace him and even then it would be close.

He is the only defender we have who even remotely understand positioning and actually tries to organize the defense.

Yes he has his issues not being the most aggressive or strong but he is comfortably our best cb, just doesn't get any credit because he isn't a headless kamikaze nor did he cost 80mn.
 

SmallCaine

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Maguire succeeded in a Leicester defence that played a much lower defensive line than which we currently employ. Maguire doesn't have significant pace or acceleration, nor does he have any great agility on the turn. It's plain to see for anyone watching that a high line with Maguire (and Lindelof) in it is nigh on suicidal. Well, everyone but Ole, who insists with the high-line experiment.
Most teams that want to set their stall on attack play a high line, leicester until recently played deeper because they played counter attacking football. Maguire's signing makes less and less sense with every passing day.
 

JPB

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What a load of bs? Have you ever watched him or are you just picking random quotes from the performance thread and combining it.

He is pretty quick, it would take someone like a rashford to outpace him and even then it would be close.

He is the only defender we have who even remotely understand positioning and actually tries to organize the defense.

Yes he has his issues not being the most aggressive or strong but he is comfortably our best cb, just doesn't get any credit because he isn't a headless kamikaze nor did he cost 80mn.
ok is it possible to post videos in here? If so would someone be kind enough to post the absolutely shocking things Lindelof has done while playing for us. I remember him doing the same shocking mistake 2 or 3 times in a row just a couple of games apart, where the ball got lobbed over his head and he could have jumped and headed the ball away. he either jumped and completley missed the ball or didn't even attempt to jump and head it away. then he got overrun like a little child and they scored. I don't remember who we played against maybe someone can help me out here.

Also the video of Mourinho on Sky sports when asked how Lindelof is as a defender is comical. Mourinho says he gets bullied in the box all the time and he's a disaster in the air. Just as he says that you can see Lindelof and Maguire warming up and Lindelof hilariously misses an easy header like the donkey that he is. He's terrible. He's slow, weak, he can't jump and if he does he misses the ball. He's absolutely atrocious. He's a "professional amateur" playing in the Premier League. it's unbelievable, I've never seen anything like it.

Edit: I also want to add to that his hilarious attempt at trying to head the ball in the Sevilla game where Bruno rightfully gave him an earful for beeing incompetent. when he tries to jump he doesn't even get 2 inches above the ground. go and watch that goal back and tell me he's a good defender. He also played a part in all 3 of Palace's goals on the opening day. He's fecking shit.
 
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Resch

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The problem is the combination of players and system. We do not press hard enough to defend with such a high line with slow players. Our opponents have time and space to play a controlled long ball again and again. Our defense sets up badly more often than not for these balls and so we are exposed far too easy. The manager is the problem!
 

Ekeke

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The problem is the combination of players and system. We do not press hard enough to defend with such a high line with slow players. Our opponents have time and space to play a controlled long ball again and again. Our defense sets up badly more often than not for these balls and so we are exposed far too easy. The manager is the problem!
A pass over the top and beyond will always be on regardless of who is pressing. Its not possible to press every player and not allow any of them to look up and play that pass. Its just not every player delivers with the quality needed.

Theres no excuse or way to play around CBs without pace if they are far up the pitch. The best would be a sweeper keeper who is always alert to be running out when the ball is played over them, but that has its issues too and that isnt De Gea.
 

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He is not that great, but IMO he would be the last to replace in that front five. He is also the only one who is trying to organise something and who instructs the other players (especially AWB) on what to do (which should have been the job of Maguire and De Gea).
 

golden_blunder

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Maguire is in shit form, lost his confidence but has the basics of defending. However lacks pace

lindelof doesn’t have the basics of defending down. He cant head, has questionable positioning and is a passive defender. I’d ship him tomorrow if I could.

maguire id look to replace too but keep him

centre back has suddenly become our key position to work on

also a defensive coach to work alongside ole (assuming he doesn’t get sacked)
 
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I really only think they'd come good/decent with some superb world class CB. And who wouldn't?

So, which players is it you think that will complement these two?

On paper, I'd say these two should compliment each other fairly well.
both
They need someone quick and agressive. Maguire and Lindeloff life to drop off
I really only think they'd come good/decent with some superb world class CB. And who wouldn't?

So, which players is it you think that will complement these two?

On paper, I'd say these two should compliment each other fairly well.
They need pure pace and aggression alongside them. Lindelof would need one also good in the air.

I think in our ranks currently Tuanzebe if fully fit would suit them both.


Outside our ranks the likes of Upamecano. Johnathan Tah even Alaba imho
 

GueRed

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IMO in the 40 years i've been a United supporter he's the weakest centre-back we've ever had
 

Sandikan

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I'm the same as every supporter in that its frustrating to see us flapping at the back. But I am inclined to give some leeway given how Ferdinand was viewed in his first year or two with us. He grew into the role and club. Might be we need to go through some hardship to help galvanise the defenders. But it is make or break season for a few of our players. We need results and they need to get them whatever way they can.
How Ferdinand was viewed?

You mean as a guy coming off a top class performance in an international tournament, and looking utterly mint, with occasional lapses of concentration?

Lindelof has shown nothing of any note. How Mourinho thought him, or Bailly were any sort of answer really baffled me. He had a great record with centre backs before us.
 

Sandikan

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What a load of bs? Have you ever watched him or are you just picking random quotes from the performance thread and combining it.

He is pretty quick, it would take someone like a rashford to outpace him and even then it would be close.

He is the only defender we have who even remotely understand positioning and actually tries to organize the defense.

Yes he has his issues not being the most aggressive or strong but he is comfortably our best cb, just doesn't get any credit because he isn't a headless kamikaze nor did he cost 80mn.
Are you sure you're watching the right player?
He's not getting "close" to someone with phenomenal pace like Rashford.

He has average pace. There's a reason everyone keeps banging on about us needing pace next to Maguire!
 

Sandikan

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IMO in the 40 years i've been a United supporter he's the weakest centre-back we've ever had
He's basically Jonny Evans, but without the luck of playing next to all time greats for an all time great manager.
 

Cassidy

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Are you sure you're watching the right player?
He's not getting "close" to someone with phenomenal pace like Rashford.

He has average pace. There's a reason everyone keeps banging on about us needing pace next to Maguire!
He is quicker than Maguire he isnt slow, but is also isnt pacey/quick
 

Foxbatt

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He isn't slow. He is average. He can tackle when he wants to. I guess he is scared that if he tackle and lose the opposing player is clear on goal.
 

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Maguire played well enough in the premier league for us to want to sign him. He wasnt as good as made out for England in a back 3 or for Leicester. But he was good enough to be considered for a transfer. Lindelof hasnt done that. We took a chance on him coming over from Portugal and doing well in the premier league. He hasnt. So he's more of the problem for sure
The problem was he's not good enough to be worth the fee we paid. Thought that at the time and unfortunately I've been proven right. Said we should have stuck with the Smalling-Lindelof partnership. Maguire was never going to be good enough to be compared to VVD.
 

Foxbatt

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You can get the best CB in the world but if the midfield is disjointed then they have no hope.
CBs should not be dragged out wide. We have our cbs dragged out wide and the midfield all over the place and the fbs not in place.
Lindelof is not a player who is good in heading the ball I agree.
But the way we play is also making it worse for our CBs.
Did you actually understand football? The CBs dragged out wide and the midfield all over the place? If the CBs get dragged wide, the the DM has to cover their space. If the DM does not cover the space Vidic or VVD, they will be in trouble.
 

Tel074

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You can get the best CB in the world but if the midfield is disjointed then they have no hope.
CBs should not be dragged out wide. We have our cbs dragged out wide and the midfield all over the place and the fbs not in place.
Lindelof is not a player who is good in heading the ball I agree.
But the way we play is also making it worse for our CBs.
I'm.glad someone else thinks what I think . The hating on the defence is justified but for me it's the midfield atm where most problems lay. I don't know if it's not having a proper summer break or pre season but the players look shattered and lazy .. Pogba shouldn't be playing because it's the epitome of lazy and tired.
We offer no cover for our defence currently and that's why we concede so many shots on goal we have Midfielders over running our midfield. If VDB doesn't start on Saturday night then Ole may as well hang up his coat and leave .
 

Denis79

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What a load of bs? Have you ever watched him or are you just picking random quotes from the performance thread and combining it.

He is pretty quick, it would take someone like a rashford to outpace him and even then it would be close.

He is the only defender we have who even remotely understand positioning and actually tries to organize the defense.

Yes he has his issues not being the most aggressive or strong but he is comfortably our best cb, just doesn't get any credit because he isn't a headless kamikaze nor did he cost 80mn.
What a load of bs? Have you ever watched him?
 

jem

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ok is it possible to post videos in here? If so would someone be kind enough to post the absolutely shocking things Lindelof has done while playing for us. I remember him doing the same shocking mistake 2 or 3 times in a row just a couple of games apart, where the ball got lobbed over his head and he could have jumped and headed the ball away. he either jumped and completley missed the ball or didn't even attempt to jump and head it away. then he got overrun like a little child and they scored. I don't remember who we played against maybe someone can help me out here.

Also the video of Mourinho on Sky sports when asked how Lindelof is as a defender is comical. Mourinho says he gets bullied in the box all the time and he's a disaster in the air. Just as he says that you can see Lindelof and Maguire warming up and Lindelof hilariously misses an easy header like the donkey that he is. He's terrible. He's slow, weak, he can't jump and if he does he misses the ball. He's absolutely atrocious. He's a "professional amateur" playing in the Premier League. it's unbelievable, I've never seen anything like it.

Edit: I also want to add to that his hilarious attempt at trying to head the ball in the Sevilla game where Bruno rightfully gave him an earful for beeing incompetent. when he tries to jump he doesn't even get 2 inches above the ground. go and watch that goal back and tell me he's a good defender. He also played a part in all 3 of Palace's goals on the opening day. He's fecking shit.
There is something so incredibly obnoxious about this post and the one before. Grow up.
 

elmo

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He is not that great, but IMO he would be the last to replace in that front five. He is also the only one who is trying to organise something and who instructs the other players (especially AWB) on what to do (which should have been the job of Maguire and De Gea).
He's not organizing anything. He's just pointing at others to cover for his mess up because he's always conveniently out of position.
 

Ekeke

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The problem was he's not good enough to be worth the fee we paid. Thought that at the time and unfortunately I've been proven right. Said we should have stuck with the Smalling-Lindelof partnership. Maguire was never going to be good enough to be compared to VVD.
Yeah of course. I was saying he's probably worth £50-55 million at the time, 80 was ridiculous to me. But still the point is that Maguire has shown hes a good defender in the premier league, Lindelof hasnt. So in terms of how we move forward its obvious that you get a partner for Maguire
 

GueRed

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I think entering his 4th season at club its a reasonable and fair enough assesment to say he is another flop of a signing
 
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JPB

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There is something so incredibly obnoxious about this post and the one before. Grow up.
You must be 1 of his 10 fans I suppose.
Everything I said is true, it all happened. He's terrible. I backed it up with the countless of mistakes he's made. Watch them back and tell me he's a good defender. I'm sorry that I hurt your feelings, but you can't seem to be able to handle the truth.
 
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A-man

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ok is it possible to post videos in here? If so would someone be kind enough to post the absolutely shocking things Lindelof has done while playing for us. I remember him doing the same shocking mistake 2 or 3 times in a row just a couple of games apart, where the ball got lobbed over his head and he could have jumped and headed the ball away. he either jumped and completley missed the ball or didn't even attempt to jump and head it away. then he got overrun like a little child and they scored. I don't remember who we played against maybe someone can help me out here.

Also the video of Mourinho on Sky sports when asked how Lindelof is as a defender is comical. Mourinho says he gets bullied in the box all the time and he's a disaster in the air. Just as he says that you can see Lindelof and Maguire warming up and Lindelof hilariously misses an easy header like the donkey that he is. He's terrible. He's slow, weak, he can't jump and if he does he misses the ball. He's absolutely atrocious. He's a "professional amateur" playing in the Premier League. it's unbelievable, I've never seen anything like it.

Edit: I also want to add to that his hilarious attempt at trying to head the ball in the Sevilla game where Bruno rightfully gave him an earful for beeing incompetent. when he tries to jump he doesn't even get 2 inches above the ground. go and watch that goal back and tell me he's a good defender. He also played a part in all 3 of Palace's goals on the opening day. He's fecking shit.
He is not great in the air but let’s not exaggerate. His percent of won aerials is pretty normal, about 65% if I remember correctly. And the amount of won headers is not as bad as you try to make out.


I took the “10 best centrebacks in the world”- list from Sport Bible which means I haven’t cherry picked them myself. I included Lindelof plus some other CBs who are somehow connected with United, and rank them in aerials won per 90 min in their respective league 2019/20:


VvD 5.0
Maguire 4.6
Pique 3.7
Smalling 3.3
Lindelof 2.8
de Ligt 2.7
Varane 2.6
Marquinhos 2.3
Koulibaly 2.1
Ramos 2.1
Upamecano 2.1
Laporte 2.0
Boateng 1.9
Bonucci 1.8
Pau Torres 1.4
Skriniar 1.3
Alaba 0.8

He is obviously not among the best in the air, but there are many decent CBs who win less headers.
 
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K_Ash

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He refuses to get stronger. Who is his trainer? Either you have the pace or the strength (or both). Lindelof has neither.