McKenna or Tuchel?

[Zen86]

I would love Mckenna and he definitely deserves a chance to move up, he knows the prem and he knows and loves Utd, shame we didn't give it to him not Ragnick, the reason I do not think we should have McKenna though is the group of players we have, I am not sure how they would respond to him, I would like to think they were professional but the evidence is to the contrary, I think the fans would give him time, I think we would give anyone a fair crack as long as we can see progress.

If he did come in and part of me really hopes he does, I think he would need very strong backing and a constant presence from the board, Brailsford etc... to reinforce his authority

That’s the thing, he can have all the ability in the world but if he can’t command the respect of the egos in the dressing room his ideas will always struggle to materialise. We have some players who really need reining in and I don’t think he’s quite at that level yet. He still needs to take another step up before leading a club like United.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

The risks are always there however I still think its far lower then when we signed ETH. Don't take me wrong I love Dutch football. Some of the finest players I've ever seen playing were Dutch. However these people are set in their way and they are pretty stubborn about it. Both ETH and LVG were obsessed with short CBs, Eredivisie players and they couldn't come out with a plan B to their plan A. Mckenna on the other hand had been incredibly adaptive at Ipswich switching things around multiple times. He understands the EPL, he understands the club, he knows the youth academy (he coached there) and the squad. If Mckenna walked into United then he would probably know more about how things really work inside the club as opposed to SJR, Brailsford, Blanc and Wilcox. That's the sort of experience we need at the club as we know very well that these players are more then capable to switch on and switch off according to how the manager act with them.

Regarding reputation that's not really important. As said this is a head coach role which is a clear downgrade to the manager's role. Transfers, discipline, hiring and firing of staff etc will all be handled by people who sit above Mckenna. What's important is his man management and his tactics.

ETH is old regime something INEOS should value. If we stick to ETH and he does badly next season then they won't be blamed for it. That's something to consider especially since we're going to kick a proper hornet nest by changing the football structure from top to bottom which in turn will cause unrest. Considering all that I think we should

a- stick to ETH for next season
b- I'd gather as much information of what went wrong at the club as humanely possible (interviews with Ole, Mou, Mckenna, Phelan, Carrick, Fletcher etc)
c- I'd make all the upheaval now. That include bringing all new people in and selling/sacking all the rotten apples
d- I'd open communication channels with Mckenna now so he'll know that we're keeping close tabs on him. We would get his opinion on whom we should sell and whom we should buy. That would motivate him to do better while keeping an eye on what's going on at our club

If ETH sink in such upheaval then tough luck. He would be just another failure from a failed regime.

That's pretty much what City did prior to Pep's arrival. They hired Pellegrini specifically to warm the bench (and take the hits) on Pep's behalf

I'm all for taking risks with Mckenna if it's what Ineos Team and their data analysis identify that this is the calculated risk worth taking. Personally, I like what McKenna has done in Ipswich.

However, for the plan to stick with ETH, I have to respectfully disagree. I will need to take football sabbatical if that happens. If ETH failed next season, Ineos will loose all credibility fast on their competency to manage the club. It will be like a team of data analysts telling us to sign AWB after analysing 800 RBs.

 

[Chairman Steve]

If we’re getting a youngish coach like McKenna, then we’ve got to bin almost all the big names and top earners immediately as they‘ll just undermine him from the go.

 

[devilish]

That’s the thing, he can have all the ability in the world but if he can’t command the respect of the egos in the dressing room his ideas will always struggle to materialise. We have some players who really need reining in and I don’t think he’s quite at that level yet. He still needs to take another step up before leading a club like United.

In 4 decades following football I can't recall anyone losing the dressing room faster and as public as David Moyes. By December Manchester United employees were cracking jokes about Lumsden. I remember an RVP's interview done towards the end of Moyes reign were he claimed with a full smile on his face that change followed by better times was imminent.

The first thing LVG did was to fire as many people as possible. RVP for example lasted only a season. LVG might have been a tactical dinosaur at that point but he had been in football for enough time to know that the hierarchy in football is sacred and going against that spells trouble.

Its not the player's role to question the manager. That's the sporting director/CEO job. It takes few minutes of listening to sky football to acknowledge that most players have no clue how football work and are only effective as pawns in a chess game. Thus if players can't respect that hierarchy then they should be on their way out. SAF accepted a lot of shit during his managerial career (injury prone players, kung fu kicks, players forgetting a doping test, players not talking with one another for the silliest and pettiest of reasons etc) but that was his one huge red line.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

If we’re getting a youngish coach like McKenna, then we’ve got to bin almost all the big names and top earners immediately as they‘ll just undermine him from the go.

oh for sure. Imagine him coming in and trying to change things completely up while being stuck with players like rashford and casemiro. Bruno even might not play how he wants to set up either.

 

[Ali Dia]

McKenna would be an absolutely crazy punt. The guy has what? Two years of management under his belt, in league 1 and the championship. On face value it’d be utterly mental. But I’d be quite excited about it. Everyone would expect him to fail, but he could come in under a really good structure with tons of experience and leadership around him, and just get on with coaching. He plays a really exciting brand of football and if you are looking for a true three to five year project, he could be terrific for the club.

Normally I’d say that he’d get eaten alive in this job, but I am very optimistic about the leadership and environment Berrada, Brailsford, Ashworth and Wilcox will create and so I think he’d have the right set up to flourish. He’s also a proper coach in that he is used to getting the job done with the players he has. He’s not a chequebook manager.

All that said, if it was your club, with your money on the line…..what would you do? It’s easy to gamble with someone else’s resources. And when I ask myself that question, I can only come up with one answer. I’d take Tuchel as a likely short term appointment (2 years approx) and see how McKenna, Ireola, Frank, De Zerbi and others fair over a larger sample size of seasons. I don’t think it would surprise anyone if Ipswich came up and were exposed as incredibly naive and conceded scores of goals and went right back down.

Id do it. We need a head coach not a manager. If the players don’t work hard it won’t be the manager who is giving them their P45 it’ll be Ashworth. Sorry but it’s just not working out, bye. Manager needs to be tactically astute and know what he needs to develop the team to the next level. I think given the right circumstances McKenna could be a long term world class coach. Tucel is going to ruffle feathers all over the shop and I don’t like his football either

 

[theatreofdreams777]

How is that even a question? Didn't we learn our lesson from the awful Ole experiment? This shows how out of touch some United fans are with the reality. We seriously need a top coach who competed at the highest level; not a guy who's new in management and was working as a scout, academy coach or assistant coach just 2-3 years ago.

Managers who have no pedigree and are novices who have to learn on the job shouldn't be appointed at Man United. We completely wasted our years with Ole and simply can't afford another experiment like it.

Even if it isn't Tuchel, it definitely shouldn't be McKenna either. He's far too unproven and also a part of the past failing regimes. Try to get the best candidate possible.

 

[Irwin99]

I have no opinion on McKenna except to say his job with Ipswich is absolutely incredible. Although obviously he's his own man, he was heavily involved in the Ole years though and is there a risk we go back to something like that or does he play a different brand of football? Genuinely asking this as I've not watched his team but if his style is similar then i'd be a little worried. Despite a lot of people defending Ole (and he is a club legend after all) that generally was not good football he played back then.

You can easily set this team up to play a low block, counter and get top 4 with this squad. Ole, Jose, EtH have all played around with variations of this and got top 4. It's what comes after that is more significant. Hopefully the next manager can really stamp his own authority on the club and move us forward.

 

[luke511]

If we’re getting a youngish coach like McKenna, then we’ve got to bin almost all the big names and top earners immediately as they‘ll just undermine him from the go.

Rashford needs binning anyway. Fernandes, Martinez and Shaw won’t. Maybe Fernandes will kick up a fuss when/if subbed initially but that will tail off quickly as he’ll get publicly criticised for it. He’ll be like that with any manager we get, bar someone as prestigious as Zidane.

 

[devilish]

I'm all for taking risks with Mckenna if it's what Ineos Team and their data analysis identify that this is the calculated risk worth taking. Personally, I like what McKenna has done in Ipswich.

However, for the plan to stick with ETH, I have to respectfully disagree. I will need to take football sabbatical if that happens. If ETH failed next season, Ineos will loose all credibility fast on their competency to manage the club. It will be like a team of data analysts telling us to sign AWB after analysing 800 RBs.

I am resigned of us not being able to compete for the next 2-3 years especially since its already May and most of the top guys has yet to start working. Ashworth in particular is a concern. The sporting director's role is to hire the right people at every department and that all departments are working in harmony. He's basically what old SAF would do for most of the time. Change require time, people will need to settle down, they need to identify the problems and then tackle them by firing people and identifying new people to come in.

In my opinion next season our sole purpose will be to stir the ship to the right direction (ex reducing injuries, hiring the right people etc). On the transfer market front we'll probably sell as much dead wood as possible and we will replace them with a mix of no brainer signings (ex Olise if there's a 50m minimum fee clause and Frimpong for 35m), bargains and youths who can easily be sold if things do not work out. Hopefully that would be enough for a top 4-6 place. ETH is a product of the old regime who lingers mainly because the decision makers have yet to join the club. That's something INEOS can easily sell

 

[King7Eric]

How is that even a question? Didn't we learn our lesson from the awful Ole experiment? This shows how out of touch some United fans are with the reality. We seriously need a top coach who competed at the highest level; not a guy who's new in management and was working as a scout, academy coach or assistant coach just 2-3 years ago.

Managers who have no pedigree and are novices who have to learn on the job shouldn't be appointed at Man United. We completely wasted our years with Ole and simply can't afford another experiment like it.

Even if it isn't Tuchel, it definitely shouldn't be McKenna either. He's far too unproven and also a part of the past failing regimes. Try to get the best candidate possible.

While the "experiments" with tenured managers like Jose and LvG were so successful. Oh let's not forget the absolute wonderful football we've been treated to with the multiple league winning manager ETH.

Interesting how people clamour for the next wonderkid when it's a player but when it's a manager they must be old and greying to be considered qualified.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Newly promoted clubs have come up and done much much better than Burnley, some have even made it top 10...please.

With a team with lots of league 1 players. Yeah, you can please me all you like, it’s just not realistic

 

[theatreofdreams777]

While the "experiments" with tenured managers like Jose and LvG were so successful. Oh let's not forget the absolute wonderful football we've been treated to with the multiple league winning manager ETH.

Interesting how people clamour for the next wonderkid when it's a player but when it's a manager they must be old and greying to be considered qualified.

By the time we got LvG & Jose they were past their prime like it was the case of a lot of players we signed. Just because 2 'has been' managers didn't work as we hoped doesn't mean we should stop trying to get the best possible name. Also their time at the club was still much better than the embarrasment we had after they left.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Great points. But the worry is the step up from Championship to PL. It's like ETH from Eredivisie to PL. There are huge differences. PL will eat you alive if you don't have enough experience and quality. ETH underestimate the PL a lot by bringing all his players who are more of Eredivisie standards. His style of play also not suitable for PL.

For Man Utd to appoint a manager, the candidate must be at least have been performing reasonably well in higher level. To me, let him try PL with Ipswich and must perform reasonably well i.e good football, mid table.

The other thing is we are in major transition dealing with big players with big egos. We need a manager with higher reputation and track records to at least able to gain respect and control the players until all the changes are implemented.

Once these are all done and if McKenna was still doing well with Ipswich in PL then it will be the right time.

If he gets Ipswich mid table then he’s some kind of genius. Expectations have to be Atleast reasonable. They were league 1 a year ago and still have a lot of league 1 players. I don’t know what miracles some of you are expecting

 

[King7Eric]

By the time we got LvG & Jose they were past their prime like it was the case of a lot of players we signed. Just because 2 'has been' managers didn't work as we hoped doesn't mean we should stop trying to get the best possible name. Also their time at the club was still much better than the embarrasment we had after they left.

Precisely. Just because a previous manager with a certain profile failed doesn't necessarily mean the next one will as well.

Plenty of young managers are doing well at major clubs (Alonso, Arteta etc). If we believe McKenna is the guy, his lack of experience shouldn't be a consideration. It's about his capability to be the Head Coach here, nothing else.

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

I don't want anyone who's dealt with this crowd before in any capacity. Someone new, please.

 

[simonhch]

Id do it. We need a head coach not a manager. If the players don’t work hard it won’t be the manager who is giving them their P45 it’ll be Ashworth. Sorry but it’s just not working out, bye. Manager needs to be tactically astute and know what he needs to develop the team to the next level. I think given the right circumstances McKenna could be a long term world class coach. Tucel is going to ruffle feathers all over the shop and I don’t like his football either

I’m not disagreeing with you. I find it an exciting appointment but I also see the other side of it from a risk aversion perspective.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

If he gets Ipswich mid table then he’s some kind of genius. Expectations have to be Atleast reasonable. They were league 1 a year ago and still have a lot of league 1 players. I don’t know what miracles some of you are expecting

It's reasonable for Man Utd manager requirement. If not midtable you want a manager fighting for relegation? If that's the case he will be not doing anything extraordinary to be considered for Man Utd.

 

[Raoul]

Why is Mckenna even getting mentioned as an option ? He seems to be doing well at Ispwich, but that's hardly something one can hang their hat on as a prerequisite for managing Man United.

 

[Tyrion]

Why is Mckenna even getting mentioned as an option ? He seems to be doing well at Ispwich, but that's hardly something one can hang their hat on as a prerequisite for managing Man United.

Personally I think it's because he's been here before. I can't imagine anyone in his position getting linked with United unless there was already a link.

 

[Raoul]

Personally I think it's because he's been here before. I can't imagine anyone in his position getting linked with United unless there was already a link.

That's my suspicion as well. Given everything we've been through over the past decade, his having previously been at United should the last thing we consider in a new manager imo.

 

[Red in STL]

Why is Mckenna even getting mentioned as an option ? He seems to be doing well at Ispwich, but that's hardly something one can hang their hat on as a prerequisite for managing Man United.

Why not, we've tried top 2 level European managers, a mid-level British manager, a former player with legendary status and a highly rated European one, none have worked

 

[Bastian]

Why is Mckenna even getting mentioned as an option ? He seems to be doing well at Ispwich, but that's hardly something one can hang their hat on as a prerequisite for managing Man United.

What is a prerequisite for managing United?

 

[Raoul]

What is a prerequisite for managing United?

In the present circumstances, its winning at a big club. Tuchel has a nearly 65% winning percentage over his last four jobs which include leagues and a CL. He may not be ideal for a couple of other reasons, but he's light years beyond someone who has never managed in the league.

 

[Raoul]

Why not, we've tried top 2 level European managers, a mid-level British manager, a former player with legendary status and a highly rated European one, none have worked

They didn't work because we didn't have the executive structure to support them - which was down largely to the Glazers and Woodward. Now that we finally have a chance to sign a good, attack minded manager, we shouldn't be leaving our fate to experimentation on someone with no league experience.

 

[Remember the geese]

Now that we finally have a chance to sign a good, attack minded manager, we shouldn't be leaving our fate to experimentation on someone with no league experience.

Logic and experience isn't always the answer. Not sure I'd describe Tuchel as attack minded either.

 

[Tyrion]

Why not, we've tried top 2 level European managers, a mid-level British manager, a former player with legendary status and a highly rated European one, none have worked

Just because a type of manager failed that doesn't mean anyone with a vaguely similar resume will too. If McKenna fails what do we do, opt for championship managers? International managers? Managers of women's teams?

 

[Bastian]

In the present circumstances, its winning at a big club. Tuchel has a nearly 65% winning percentage over his last four jobs which include leagues and a CL. He may not be ideal for a couple of other reasons, but he's light years beyond someone who has never managed in the league.

It all depends on the short-term priorities and long-term planning of the football hierarchy. If they want to squeeze a title challenge from the majority of this squad (or even half of it) then going with someone who has won things is essential. I cannot imagine this squad capable of challenging for the title, so I'd rather not put the onus on the next 1-2 seasons. One of my gripes with Erik, and it could also be the mandate he was given, is "we are United and we have to win every game". It's the attitude to keep in-house, but we don't need that self-inflicted pressure and we need it even less when we keep dropping points.

I'm not saying McKenna is anything close to a sure bet, of course, but I'd rather a young manager on an upwards trajectory than someone who is good but not good enough and plays boring football. I don't see the point in that really.

The best players this season apart from Dalot and Bruno have been young players and Jonny Evans. The squad needs dismantling, not patching up to try and make a go of things. We are so far from being a top side and this is a particularly poor premier league this year.

 

[Raoul]

Logic and experience isn't always the answer. Not sure I'd describe Tuchel as attack minded either.

I'd place consistent winning over the span of a decade at or near the top of the things to look for. Nothing against McKenna, but he needs to prove it at the top level before being considered at a big club.

 

[croadyman]

Sensible approach is Tuchel then McKenna. If McKenna really is good, then he will go from strength to strength over the next year or two. And I might be wrong, but it feels like we've got the connection with him and could bring him in ahead of other clubs if we did want to move for him.

Let's see how he does at Ipswich, but if he goes to Brighton then that would equally be a great opportunity for him. I could genuinely see him shining if he got the Brighton job, but think his stock may take a hit at Ipswich in the PL. Kompany had Burnley playing great football in the Championship and look how things have nosedived this season, through no real fault of his own really.

Completely agree,however like others have said it looks like Bayern have persuaded him to stay so another one scratched off the list.

 

[Red in STL]

I'd place consistent winning over the span of a decade at or near the top of the things to look for. Nothing against McKenna, but he needs to prove it at the top level before being considered at a big club.

Our team isn't going to be challenging for the PL or even consistently winning in the next 2 seasons, I don't think Tuchel is the man for that

 

[Raoul]

Our team isn't going to be challenging for the PL or even consistently winning in the next 2 seasons, I don't think Tuchel is the man for that

I seriously doubt that. He won the CL there in his first year with lesser players than what we have now. Its all about getting the players to punch above their collective weight. See Dortmund and Leverkusen this year.

 

[Red in STL]

I seriously doubt that. He won the CL there in his first year with lesser players than what we have now. Its all about getting the players to punch above their collective weight. See, Dortmund and Leverkusen this year.

They played as a team, not a bunch of individuals which is what we are, not even SAF would sort this team out in less than12 months, the changes needed are probably not dissimilar to the level of what was needed in the mid-80's, and that took him several years

 

[Raoul]

They played as a team, not a bunch of individuals which is what we are, not even SAF would sort this team out in less than12 months, the changes needed are probably not dissimilar to the level of what was needed in the mid-80's, and that took him several years

That's right, because that's what have under Ten Hag, but not necessarily with a better manager who knows what he's doing. If Tuchel came in, he would probably move a few players on and buy a few of his own, in addition to those already leaving such as Martial, Varane et al. All he would need to do is retain our quality players, get those who have been out for most of the year healed up and ready to go, and continue developing the kids who have broken through.

 

[Bastian]

I seriously doubt that. He won the CL there in his first year with lesser players than what we have now. Its all about getting the players to punch above their collective weight. See Dortmund and Leverkusen this year.

Dortmund have been average in the league. Alonso has done an exceptional job at Leverkusen but they are an extremely well put together side, well balanced. We are nowhere near being a well balanced side. I think this is a "click of the finger magic" you might be expecting, by getting in a manager who is supposed to make any old side so collectively good they somehow they become much better than what they are. If Tuchel were that good he'd be getting money stuffed down his throat at City.

But regardless of our different points of view, why not poll this? Loads of interest in this.

 

[Raoul]

Dortmund have been average in the league. Alonso has done an exceptional job at Leverkusen but they are an extremely well put together side, well balanced. We are nowhere near being a well balanced side. I think this is a "click of the finger magic" you might be expecting, by getting in a manager who is supposed to make any old side so collectively good they somehow they become much better than what they are. If Tuchel were that good he'd be getting money stuffed down his throat at City.

But regardless of our different points of view, why not poll this? Loads of interest in this.

Dortmund are CL finalists. Imagine if we were in their position at the moment. Hardly what one could call an average year by any measure. As for Leverkusen being balanced, that's something the manager imparts on his team. They walked the league with mostly average players most on this forum have probably never heard of.

 

[Abraxas]

I don't think either would be the one I hired.

Kieran McKenna would be on my managers to watch list. His performance has been absolutely exceptional. But...it's at Ipswich in lower leagues. I think he's at least one year probably two from meriting a job at this club. I would like to see them survive and then stabilise - if he does that he is very much someone I'd want to talk to because you've then seen someone overcome every possible challenge in his position, currently he's got things to do. I think he should be learning to manage PL football at Ipswich not at Man United.

Tuchel is probably someone I would talk to based on accomplishments but I'd have to get a very good sense of what he is saying and how I think he is going to be able to manage up. For me it's no good having friction between manager and owners. I know people are keen on someone to come and whip the players into shape after such appalling discipline and performance but it's about so much more than that. We do need some ability to build without work being undone. Can Tuchel fit into that? Possibly - like I said, you would want to talk to him.

 

[davidmichael]

The save option is A. Let see how he does in PL with Ipswich. He has to be at least like what De Zebri done with Brighton. Modern exciting attacking football, mid table.

You mean De Zerbi who took over at Brighton after Hughton and Potter got Brighton promoted and stabilised in the PL ? De Zerbi for all the credit he deserves didn’t get Brighton promotion to the PL let alone back to back promotions with a team that were languishing near the relegation zone in League One so McKenna needing to do what De Zerbi has done is a terrible comparison.

From getting Burnley promoted people have spoken about Kompany as Pep’s successor at City and that hasn’t gone away based on Burnley getting relegated, I think Tuchel should be in charge for a couple of years then McKenna but as far as achievements go McKenna has done as much already if not more than De Zerbi.

 

[davidmichael]

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1899541/Man-Utd-news-Sir-Alex-Ferguson

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...er-move-for-kieran-mckenna-if-ten-hag-departs

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...e-set-make-decision-Erik-ten-Hags-future.html

 

[VP89]

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/1899541/Man-Utd-news-Sir-Alex-Ferguson

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...er-move-for-kieran-mckenna-if-ten-hag-departs

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...e-set-make-decision-Erik-ten-Hags-future.html

Its a shame only the Guardian look to have a remotely credible journalist from that list.