McT is unlikely to develop Matic ability on the ball.
We currently need them both due to lack of other options, but long term it is difficult to see us needing them both.
McTominay and Fred, do we need both?
- Thread starter pacifictheme
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We currently need them both due to lack of other options, but long term it is difficult to see us needing them both.
We cant say but his qualities are really not soothed I would say. I think the argument is wheather we need a CDM now to relief Matic some game time this summer or we wait till next season. I am happy to wait if we add quality and pace to our central defence.
Both are squad players. I'd keep both and sign a starter
That is 5 games a season. You don’t need two players to fill a specialized role for 5 games a season.
They are great squad options for the exact same role of a defensive 8 which we don’t need in 70% of matches. Nor do we need to play with two defensive 8s in cup games either.
Need both for squad strength in depth. Pereira,Jones, Mata, Lingard need to shipped out and replaced by reliable impact players.
There is no way either of them is sold, unless they'd rather have more guaranteed game time in another club and push for a move out.
I have also no idea how you equate the 2 players, when their playstyles are totally different. One is much better in possession and can play ball, whilst the other is more direct and provides more physicality, whilst still not being the finished article. Both great guys and were holding us together in some very tough times earlier in the season. Put some respek on their names, ffs.
We don't need them but it's not a bad thing to have a surplus. Personally I would have them as the 4th and 5th option, I would like for us to bring an upgrade on Matic, a right winger and a starting CB.
I get the question tbh. It isn’t about numbers, it is about the specific players themselves. Both seem more suited to deputising for Matic than they do Pogba. And yet, most people on here seem to feel we need yet another player in this mould to take Matic out of the team. I’m not sure we need Fred and McTominay both taking turns in covering Matic, and it may not be unreasonable to think that we don’t have a player for the double pivot who can come in and add any creativity from deep. Personally, I think Fred has enough quality for this role, but I don’t know if the management see him as more of a defensive midfielder too.
We’d probably be more balanced if one of then was more a Pogba understudy than a Matic one. Theoretically, we have three Matic’s and one Pogba (and people still want another addition in the Matic role), unless anyone is counting Andreas Pereira.
We’d probably be more balanced if one of then was more a Pogba understudy than a Matic one. Theoretically, we have three Matic’s and one Pogba (and people still want another addition in the Matic role), unless anyone is counting Andreas Pereira.
You need a good squad to win things. We have a first choice 3 and need at least 2 to fill in. We also need to replace Lingard and Mata so I'm not sure why we'd look up leave ourselves bare and sell either. Especially when you consider Mctominay is an academy talent.
You only need look at our squads under SAF to see what it takes.
Yeah, I'd say we do...if we are looking to bring in another CM there may be some debate going forward I suppose, but I like the qualities both have.
At McTominay's age, Matic was still being played as a CAM or was starting to be converted to a DM. Scott still has time to develop his game and he doesn't need to be a playmaker type when we have the likes of Bruno and Pogba.
Which is why he is unlikely to develop Matic abilties on the ball, Matic was an attacking midfielder who was moved to a more defensive role. If McTominay's limitations were tactical I would be a lot more confident but it's a mix of technical and tactical limitations. For me he is an excellent squad player but I wouldn't bet on him to become more, it's not impossible but it's a gamble I rather not take when it's not necessary.
You can't start Bruno, Pogba and Matic every match for 55-60 matches a season. Also at some point, I'm sure Pogba and Matic will have a poor patch. Bruno does not have poor patches.
I don't think we need a replacement for Matic either. Fred and McT can do it.
I don't think we need a replacement for Matic either. Fred and McT can do it.
We have these things called depth and injuries
Bloody hell.
This is happening all over the forum.
You need more than a first 11. You need quality coming of then bench and if you get injuries.
This is happening all over the forum.
You need more than a first 11. You need quality coming of then bench and if you get injuries.
Yup. Both are quite good players who seem to be happy with a squad role. What is there not to like?
Both are essential squad players, but it is good that both have been eased out of being automatic starters. That's a sign we're back on the rise.
It's the Mata, Pereira, Lingard gang who need shipping off. Fill those booths with the next promising youngsters, or buy more quality like Grealish.
McTom has the slight problem that he loses a lot of his effectiveness when we have 90% of the ball. However, he's still more than useful to have around.
Maybe him or Fred can develop into playing the Matic role.
It's the Mata, Pereira, Lingard gang who need shipping off. Fill those booths with the next promising youngsters, or buy more quality like Grealish.
McTom has the slight problem that he loses a lot of his effectiveness when we have 90% of the ball. However, he's still more than useful to have around.
Maybe him or Fred can develop into playing the Matic role.
That's true, I'm still not perfectly sure what Scott's ceiling is but I'm extremely happy for him being a squad player, he is a top professional and his physical progress has been quite staggering, to be honest. The lad is an absolute beast in terms of strength and physique.
Not sure what's more disturbing, people wanting to sell two key squad players, or people saying where would Grealish play!
Yes, Both have been very influential in our impressive results against the big sides this season and dont see why we should stray away from the formula that has produced such success in getting results against the top sides.
Sell both, use Lingard and Pereira because who needs squad depth.
Of course both are necessary. Its a very good midfield group, loads of games through a season and with Matic aging, you'll need to rotate him out and manage game time. Its perfectly balanced. Garner should go out on loan and then the year after hopefully be more ready for more football as Matic is phased out more. Pereira as the 6th man in midfield for a full rotation team, taking the #10 spot is fine.
Thats the sort of depth you want everywhere. Something we generally have in defence and goalkeeper with williams, dalot, bailly and tuanzebe (if he could ever get fit), and then if we sign Sancho then we'd have Greenwood, Ighalo and James as the backup front 3. Its exactly what the squad of a big club should look like.
Thats the sort of depth you want everywhere. Something we generally have in defence and goalkeeper with williams, dalot, bailly and tuanzebe (if he could ever get fit), and then if we sign Sancho then we'd have Greenwood, Ighalo and James as the backup front 3. Its exactly what the squad of a big club should look like.
Its mad.
Grealish doesnt effect these two. He plays In no position mct and fred would. He would be a front 3 rotation than can also play 10 when bruno needs rested.
Yep, he's an attacking guy, and the other two aren't. Simples.
I do wonder if at times we could get away with playing Grealish, Pogba and Bruno together as a three, but that'd be a bit optimistic, and if it's against that weak a team, you'd simply rest one of them.
Let's wait until it's even a question first
We need Scott and Fred, they have been so important this season. In crucial big games we would have been lost without them. We need a squad, options and good ones. It's a long season and we are notorious for picking up injuries, dip in form and fatigue. This goes for all areas of the pitch. This do we need more has to stop. I'll tell you what we need, way better options on the bench. Players competing for places, not making up the numbers.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if we signed another midfielder and Fred was sold.
We have great balance in CM, and Pogba is probably still over 50% to leave this summer. both McTominay and Fred have put in performances this season on par with Pogba and Bruno's best performances in very tough games, and both are probably happy not starting every game, for now at least.
If anything I think we need a little cover for Matic, if it isn't James Garner. I don't think any player really offers what Matic does
If anything I think we need a little cover for Matic, if it isn't James Garner. I don't think any player really offers what Matic does
I don't think you read my actual post did you. If you did then your comment is very silly.
Read the opening post ffs. Amazing.
We started the season with 4 midfielders in Pogba, Matic, Fred and McTominay and people were worried that we didn't have enough depth in midfield. We have since brought in one other midfielder in Bruno and now we have too many? How quickly we forget that people get injured. All 5 of these players will play an important role next season and we need them all...
Yes. I think Fred can take over from Matic in the long run but it's a squad game. Let's not forget that. Mctominay can do various jobs. We've seen Matic at times drop in at central defense. There's plenty of games.
Fred and Jesse in return for Declan Rice. I'd take that deal. Would hate to see Fred leave and he has a big role to play, but we've got the long term heir to Matic sorted if we got Rice. I know Dylan Levitt might be ready to be Matic understudy, but Rice looks like a real leader in the making.
I think we need another thread with title of "The disrespect of"
100% yes we do
If you don't want Fred to leave why are you suggesting such an exchange? Also when was the last time a 2 for 1 transfer has happened (if ever)? That's just ridiculous from wages perspective (for West Ham).
I sense you actually want to get rid of Fred and that's the most underhanded way to push that notion forward
They’re two completely different players that have done very well this season.
Well it's kind of obvious isn't it? He plays in a position that we are well stocked in, yet we're light in other areas. So it's called balancing the squad. We've seen Fergie do it many times. Sell players that still have plenty to offer to replace them with kids, and bring in funds to strengthen other areas.
But as a squad player he'd still have a very important role to play.
So Mystic Meg I'm afraid you've sensed wrong this time. I can't imagine him being sold but we'll see.
This place is insane!
Why is this even a question? Both are solid players who are enjoying themselves here. Some teams have a world of talent across the pitch and here at Redcafe we take a 'x player or y player' approach. It's the Rashford vs Martial thread.
While you need to be pretty confident a fairly big money buy will play a lot, and Grealish is in that boat, you only improve the quality of a squad by having competition and a good group who can all produce quality.
We have quite a considerable drop off from the best player to the squaddie in quite a few positions, and we need to improve that.
We have quite a considerable drop off from the best player to the squaddie in quite a few positions, and we need to improve that.